Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking With Somebody Else's Head. There must have been a eureka moment back in the late 1800s when, investigating an infection in the French wine industry, Louis Pasteur happened upon the discovery of microorganisms. He must have felt that jolt of thrill of realizing that he'd stumbled upon something really monumental. He was perfectly aware of the concurrent research being conducted by rival French scientists, including the extraordinary Antoine Béchamp, and even Pasteur's great friend, Claude Bernard.
The separator of the waters between them, something that came to be as contentious as the war of the currents between Tesla and Edison, was that his scientific rivals had reached the opposite conclusion. The body does not get sick as a consequence of an invasion of microbes from outside, but is instead sick in the internal system of the organism. Microbes appear as a consequence, not the cause of disease. Pasteur's self-marketing won the day, however, and his discovery underlies all of the paranoia and fear around contagions.
Calming pandemic hysteria, today on Thinking With Somebody Else's Head.
True illness is the attempt to create what was never meant to exist. Norberto Cappi.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Disinverting the human being and society.
Richard: Welcome back to Thinking With Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network in spotify itunes podcasts everywhere good podcasts are heard i'm richard jones and um i'm with dr claudia baron harper shako and i've been talking all week last week too about this
coronavirus in my classes and there's something that struck me i was i was asking my students today because there's there's such a hysteria around this claudia they've closed italy close the borders I've heard stories of executive travel in the United States being cancelled for the next month and a half there are companies in New York I understand suggesting that their people don't come to the office so I think there's like I wanted to try to get to the mentality
behind this Not the conspiracy theory, but the thinking, although maybe a conspiracy too. That's certainly possible. But the mindset that makes this fear escalate like you're lighting a match to gasoline. There's a scientific theory and mentality that's behind all of this, putting alcohol gel on our hands 20 times a day, recommending we don't shake hands anymore. or that restaurant tables are separated by more distance and companies forcing people to work from home. I wanted to try to come to this science that's behind this
because I think this is a fundamental point. If there wasn't this scientific view, we wouldn't be following all of this advice so easily and doing all of the things that are supposed to be done to protect us. So in an article you wrote in our latest newspaper, you talked about this as being disease as an attitude, as a philosophy of life, and how Dr. Kepi has introduced this innovative concept that our diseases come from attitudes we adopt in life.
They don't have an existence in themselves. Could we start there? Would that be a good place to start? I notice you're making notes furiously as I speak. No, because I
Cláudia: don't want to lose my…
Richard: Yeah, your train of thought, of course.
Cláudia: I think, Richard, when we speak about this epidemics and about health and people interested about health, we enter in an area which is very much dangerous. because it increases or triggers the feelings of paranoia of people.
This is for sure. So we could speak about the sociopathological point of view, social point of view, and the psychopathological or psychoenergetic point of view, and then discuss a little bit about health, what gives us health, physical, mental, and long-term lives, if you're going to live longer or not. How do these things work?
Richard: Because one of the things I've noticed, Claudia, is that when they focus on these pandemics or epidemics, they focus on the two aspects that are part of what they consider
the science of epidemic medicine, the virus or the thing that's supposed to...
Cláudia: Viruses, bacterias.
Richard: Yeah, and the means of transmission. Okay, this time it's through the... They say through the bats, whatever it is. Ah, this is
Cláudia: ridiculous. Yeah,
this is ridiculous, of
Richard: course, but whatever it is that's bringing it. But they never talk very often in the media about the third part, which is the susceptibility of the host, the person who accepts the... So this is the part you want to
Cláudia: get to.
If you see a movement like what you said in China, now in Italy, and all over the world, the organization of
Richard: OMS. The World Health Organization.
Cláudia: Yeah. And all the media involved. You can sense that there is something much bigger behind. In this situation where you find a virus that is much less harmful and lethal than the
Richard: other ones, much more dangerous
Cláudia: if you want to say that, this is much softer in terms of danger, of harm that it could create.
And the cases, the vast majority of people that died, died for other reasons, like 70% or something like this are older than 80. They are older people that have already diseases. They are weak. So what could you say? they could have something that would weaken a little bit their immune system and they would die for other reasons. Very, very few young people could die of this coronavirus. Children, we don't have any case of children dying of this coronavirus. So you see that there is something
Some people investigate or they wonder, would this be because this power of the world, this elite, the economic powerful and the political powerful, what might be their interest in causing this hysteria all over the world with something that is so innocuous? Almost no children died of this disease.
Richard: Yeah, it's obvious. The system, whatever it is, is attacking the people who are older. And they
Cláudia: are sick already.
Richard: And sick already, weakened already. And there's no way, really, to even prove that it's the virus that killed them.
It could be something else that killed them. I mean, they could have died because they were weakened. It's like AIDS, you know.
Cláudia: So what could be their interest?
Richard: What could be the interest of these powerful people? To
Cláudia: play with the stock market. Yeah. To bring the stock market down.
Richard: This is happening.
Cláudia: And manipulate the stocks, buy them when they are very, very cheap, and then later on have all the power.
Richard: Which happened in 1929 is exactly
Cláudia: what happened.
And they say China got an enormous advantage of this crisis because they were top number one news in the world. And they gained a lot of money with this, first. Second, they bought the stocks of the companies that are installed in China. And they had several companies, European, American companies. They
Richard: bought for, what you say in
Cláudia: Brazil, the price of a banana, right? Yeah. So they took the power of most of the companies inside China.
Richard: I've heard that too.
Cláudia: So this is one, some people comment on this. They can hide other major problems with this. They can hide recession, they can hide climate change problems, horrible problems we are facing in the planet. They can hide many, many other problems like oil going down and the crisis of oil. So they hide everything with this.
Richard: Yeah, because everybody's attention is focused only on this and everything else is forgotten, lost, right? Yes. They
Cláudia: can stop the velocity of the production if it's like a huge bubble in this global market and they don't know how to bring things down with the speculation and this bubble.
This is the best way to bring this bubble down. If they shut off all activities in the countries, the economy needs to stop, to stop producing, to stop selling, stop the stock market. So this is a way to deal
Richard: with bubbles, economic bubbles.
Cláudia: To cool off the market, right? To cool off the market.
Richard: It's just too inflationary. It's going too
Cláudia: fast. So they can do a lot of things using this. And never, they will never say the real reason for this.
Now, we have the other side of the coin, which is the people and how psychopathology enters in this game, which is people normally, they suffer from this problem of nocebo is the opposite of placebo. We
Richard: call this an inverted placebo. Inverted
Cláudia: placebo, which is if you think or if you are afraid of becoming ill, you generate an energy inside of your organism that will create symptoms and create diseases.
Richard: Let me tell you specifically how that happens because I've experienced that in my own life.
Uh-huh. Yeah. I'll give you two examples. When Dr. Roberto Giraldo was here, an infectologist, a specialist in infectious medicine, he said that in Mexico, when they had the outbreak of the swine flu, the president of Mexico
went on the radio. And he said, we have a serious problem, and here are the
Richard: symptoms. Within three hours, all the hospitals were full. Because once you mention the symptom, you start thinking you have it. I used to work on medical translations here, Claudia, when we had a translation company.
And if I got a translation about breast cancer or arthritis, things that I don't have, I could do easily. But if I got a translation about prostate problems and they started to say, well, you know, sometimes difficulty is urinating at night. Sometimes you wake up two or three times. And I start thinking, oh, gee, that's sometimes that happens to me. Maybe I have a prostate problem. I'm not kidding you. It's exactly what happens. The suggestion of the
Cláudia: symptom, if you're susceptible, you start to follow that.
Oh, my God, I have cancer. And do you realize this
Richard: is energetic? This is a? Energetic. Totally energetic.
Cláudia: It's energy, energy of thoughts, energy of feelings. This is energy. And so then you ask me, come on, Claudia, so there are symptoms that can be faked. But what about the other diseases? They are real or they are suggestions? So then we come to a major point. All diseases, they come from distortions of energy. These distortions of energy, they can be created by our own thoughts, feelings.
Most of them are created by this energetic distortion. from tumors to diabetes to circulatory problems.
Richard: Autoimmune diseases, obviously.
Cláudia: Even more autoimmune diseases. Infections. Infections. You could say that a healthy organism, well-balanced, energetically well-balanced, has all the means they need to keep healthy. Keep in good form. Yeah, of course. There is no disease, even, look, pay attention, even microorganisms, even, I'm not speaking about bacteria, because we will speak about bacteria and the understanding of bacteria and viruses.
But you can name like this germs in terms of small organisms. invading the body parasites they can and they do invade the body of many people many times but some people have defenses and expel this organism this foreign organism and other people don't and these invaders they end up by being expelled in some cases or creating their own kind of environment inside the body and creating symptoms and diseases. So what I'm saying is that a healthy organism has defenses, enough, should have, by nature, to protect themselves.
Now, energetic things or things that bring down our energy, our energetic balance, They can not only create diseases inside our bodies by ourselves, our own organism, create diseases, tumors and all these other diseases, cancer, pneumonia, all. Or they can receive like a hostage from outside, which is a stranger and can take over the organism, the system. Now, let's speak a little bit about bacterias and viruses. Are the bacteria real? Do they harm us or they don't?
In the late 19th century, beginning of the 20th century, some geniuses like Dr. Béchamp, Enderlein.
Richard: Antoine Béchamp. Antoine Béchamp.
Cláudia: Claude Enderlein. Enderlein and Nesson are three major names.
Richard: Claude Bernard,
Cláudia: too, right? Bernard. Claude Bernard, he was also a genius, and he was the main developer of this notion of the milieu antérieur.
Richard: The interior milieu, the interior atmosphere.
Cláudia: Environment, yeah. Yeah. So they, all of those scientists, through their researches in this dark field microscopes, what did they see?
They found out we have very important elements in our being called microzymes.
Richard: Microzymes, I think. This is Antoine Béchamp's name, microzymes. Yes,
Cláudia: and they have other names for this, but it's the same element. It's like a basic brick of all beings. You can find this also in vegetables, in plants, even in stones, in minerals. It's like a basic brick, energetic brick of life.
Richard: I think Bechamp called it the third element of the blood, right?
Cláudia: And you don't find it only in the blood.
No. You find it everywhere. Yeah. But in the blood they are present. Yeah. So, these elements, if our organism is threatened, they develop themselves to protect our bodies and to expel the intruders or the danger or
Richard: the
Cláudia: symptom, what is going wrong. For instance, if you have a red blood cell that is energetically deformed, they can deform their membrana. They can adapt themselves, try to adapt themselves to this change in the energy of the blood, so they deform themselves.
And these microzyms, microzymas, they go inside the red cell. We call it in Portuguese hemácias or glóbulos vermelhos.
Richard: The red blood cells, yeah.
Cláudia: And they enter the hemácia or the glóbulos vermelhos and they reestablish the balance. if they cannot do this they dissolve they help to dissolve this sick emacia or the sick cell of the blood so they have a role to correct or to destroy what is wrong this microzimas they can develop into bacteria and this development is
achieved or is happens inside the body not outside right as a response to something
Richard: a response a defense
Cláudia: it's a development like the viruses also they are a development energetic development of the body to try to reestablish the balance in the harmony of the body that's why when you when you hear people saying he was infected by some bacterias this idea of being infected by something coming from outside came from Pasteur and this led to the creation of the
big pharma the chemicals they say they use or they claim heals people Yeah,
Richard: to fight the invading bacteria or virus or fungus or germ.
Cláudia: Because when you are sick because of some energetic imbalance and your body is threatened, the body creates bacteria to try to defend. So they invert the cause for the symptom. They invert. they see something causing the disease and the symptoms. Bacteria causes the disease or the symptom and not that they are present in the sick organism.
Richard: The organism is sick. Well, this is what I was talking about at the beginning. So
Cláudia: bacteria are a consequence, not a
Richard: cause. Yes, yes. This is what I was getting at before. This mentality we have that's adding to this incredible fire, forest fire of ideas. like throwing gas on the fire, is this idea, the inverted idea, that the disease is something from outside invading
Cláudia: us. Yes, for sure,
Richard: paranoia. Yeah, big paranoia.
Cláudia: And this paranoia creates an energetic
Richard: imbalance.
Cláudia: And people get sick, really get sick. You can see that. And you have the symptoms. And then you can develop bacterias inside your body to try to reestablish
Richard: the balance. The balance, yes. We've seen these microzymes in some of the films that have been made in our psychosomatic department here of the blood through this dark field microscope. You see the red blood cells and the white blood cells. By the way, a person who's very, let's say, energetically blocked, their white blood cells are almost not moving.
There's almost no activity there.
They're almost stopped. So you could suggest that means that their immune system is not operating at full capacity. And then there's these little microzymes. They look like little specks
Richard: of light vibrating and moving in the blood. And the healthier the person, as I understand it, the more we see this microzyme activity you're talking about, which is to repair or to fix the system. And if
the system is particularly sick, those microzymes can't
Cláudia: do their job or they begin to act against the body.
Is that what you're suggesting? Not against.
Richard: Not against. Never.
Cláudia: Never. Okay. A symptom is
Richard: always an attempt to reestablish balance. Okay. All right. The milieu intérieur. All right.
Cláudia: To reestablish the balance of the milieu intérieur, which
Richard: Claude
Cláudia: Bernard used to speak about.
Richard: The interior environment, the environment of
Cláudia: the organism. And the root is always energetic.
Richard: So we never have an autoimmune disease is when the body begins to attack itself. Yes. in order to try to restore some kind
Cláudia: of balance.
Got it. Which is most of the time is psychological. Sometimes psychosocial, like this idea of pandemia, is a psychosocial disease, creating diseases to people because it involves the resonance of more people And the environment, like an atom bomb, it creates an energetic imbalance. And it can hit your body drastically because of this intoxication. But it's always involving energy. Now, the defenses, they come always from within. And the energetic imbalance, most of the time, comes from within.
And here we remember what Jesus Christ said, it's not what you eat and what comes from outside to your inside, like what you eat, what you take in, but it's mostly what you say, what comes from within to out,
Richard: goes out
Cláudia: from
Richard: you. In verbal or
Cláudia: emotional, energetic. Exactly that. So this is the root and the key and the wisdom to understand the true medicine. The true medicine.
Richard: Medicine of the soul, as Dr. Kepi calls it.
Yes. And healing through consciousness, as you call
Cláudia: it. Yes, and energetic medicine, if you may say it
Richard: also. So our media is playing a very, very bad role.
Cláudia: Horrible. the media, the authorities, this panic. I can tell you, these people falling sick one after the other, it's mostly because of this resonance, resonating energy that comes from and they contaminate this, these ideas contaminate.
Richard: It's like a Woody Allen movie, you know. Woody Allen, he reads about a new symptom and he suddenly starts
Cláudia: thinking,
oh my God, I have cancer. He does it as a comedy, but it's like this. The human being is like that. You read about a symptom, and then you start to vibrate with that condition, that symptom. As we said here one time, Richard, or more than one time, doctors, they tend to die or to develop a disease that they are experts in. They study that. They live with people that have this disease, so they kind of resonate with this,
And many of them end up by developing this kind of disease.
Richard: What we're talking about here are the false foundations of medicine, based on Pasteur, who maintained that disease comes from an invasion of microbes from outside. What's been erased from medical science is the incredible work of scientists like Antoine Béchamp and Gunther Enderlein and Claude Bernard, who collectively concluded the opposite. Disease comes from a weakening of the internal environment. a lost chapter in biology, it's been called,
and this scientific wisdom is being rescued now by Nerva Tukhepi. Exactly what we need now to calm the paranoia and fear of pandemics. That's our program for this time. Talk to you next week on Thinking With Somebody Else's Head.
