Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. One of the things that's happened to me over the 18 plus years I've been in Brazil, working with the science of Analytical Trilogy elaborated by Brazilian psychoanalyst and social scientist Norberto Keppe, has been a gradual opening of the door to my spirituality. I still consider myself pretty feet on the floor, nice way of saying materialistic, but there is a flicker of the flame of spiritual awareness that I can feel at times.
And that crack in the opening door has allowed some light of theology to enter my reluctant head. To the point where I now consider the catastrophic disasters awaiting us, if we don't make radical changes, to be emblematic of a spiritual battle on the planet. Not a political or economic or even religious one. We are, in my evolving view, engaged in a battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil.
And as I understand it, this is taking place at our earthly level, fueled by thoughts and orientations from a transcendental level. Hope we can bring some clarity to that today. The chaos of evil today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Well, we've kicked off 2020 with a renewed commitment. Produce shows more regularly. That's a challenge given our very busy schedule down here in Brazil.
Our Trilogical Association has been working on some disinverted principles of work and Relationships that Norberto Keppe outlines in his monumental books, Liberation of the People and Work and Capital. We have hard copies of Liberation of the People available. That's a study of the pathology of power and the first articulations of the principles of a just, humane, and productive social and work organization.
And I think we have e-books of Work and Capital. I'll have to check on that. But if you're interested in either of those books, drop me an email at rich at richjonesvoice.com and I'll make sure you get one. What you'll read in those books has the potential to change your worldview. Well, that's certainly what happened to me. I was living and working as an actor in New York, read Liberation of the People, sold my place, put my stuff in storage, and my wife and I moved to Brazil to learn more.
Well, she's no longer with me. That's the fallout of having differing ideals in life, I guess. I'm sure you understand that. But our companies here, the Psychoanalysis Clinic, where Dr. Keppe and Dr. Pacheco and various other psychoanalysts work, our college, our language school, our post-grad courses, our dental clinics, bookstores, they're all running on the basis that it's work that provides the means of sustenance.
So we work a lot. We receive zero outside funding, no government assistance. We borrow nothing from banks. All we do comes from our efforts. It's a pretty remarkable thing to see, actually. When I first came to Brazil, I was struck by the purifying effects of intense work, work that benefits society, and the limitless ceiling, I felt, on creative endeavors. You've got a good idea, one that makes a valuable contribution to the greater society.
All the promotional, sales, support, and scientific resources rush to your aid. This podcast, for example, I had the idea 13 or so years ago, and a small investment later, we had a studio, and here we are, paid for by the collective resources of the company and Trilogy Association, and of course, my passion and drive. I guess I should figure out a way to monetize this, maybe, but for now, I'm content to try to present our work in the most accessible way possible, which means we depend on you to spread the word, so don't be shy.
Good news needs to be shared. And don't hesitate to get in touch, either. Rich at richjonesvoice.com. Always love to hear from you. As I said at the beginning, the incredible tumult we see in every area of human activity, I've come to understand, is the result of a spiritual battle on our planet. I would like to explore that more today with International Society of Analytical Trilogy Vice President Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
We'll do that in just a moment. The chaos of evil when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns on the Stop Radio Network. You're listening
to the most relevant conversations on the planet about how to stop destroying ourselves and the world.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: I remember a client. She has a near problem, the syndrome, when the person starts to get deaf.
Richard: A landmark psychological science that helps us understand physical disease.
Cláudia: But with analysis, the syndrome stopped developing. And
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Cláudia: And this morning, she woke up with a heavy heart, as if she was expecting something different from the doctor.
Richard: And what we can do to really solve them, not just take away the symptoms.
Cláudia: So the most difficult aspect is for her to even suspect that she has an inner life that she's not aware of.
Richard: Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco's Healing Through Consciousness, the revolutionary scientific method that treats both mental and physical illness through dialogue alone, making clinical treatment, medicines, and hospitalization unnecessary.
We
live our lives based on opinions we seldom question. They come to us from family and education, from politics and protest, from TV shows and talk radio. Our worldview is mostly formed from other people's ideas. And whether we know it or not, we are thinking with somebody else's head. But what if what we believe is limited, incomplete, or just plain wrong? It's a sobering thought, and one which has an enormous impact on how we see the world and how we live our lives.
Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is a radio program that offers a clear and scientific view of what's really going on. The program is based on the landmark work of psychoanalyst and social scientist Dr. Norberto Cappi to provide us with the expansive philosophical, theological, and scientific overview we need to question, define, and explain the human experience. Join host Richard Lloyd Jones and explore the concepts we take for granted to discover if you are Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
It is dishonest to think that all harmful acts are committed unconsciously. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the Stop Radio Network. It's in your favorite podcast download software, whatever that might be. We're all over the place, so you can find us there. And here we are, the first program of 2020.
It sounds so nice to say 2020.
Cláudia: Yes. But what a
Richard: crazy time we're in. And Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, of course, is with me again. Hello,
Cláudia: Richard. Hello.
Richard: Hi, everybody. Hi, Cláudia. We have this crazy situation in Iraq, Iran, the Middle East. I don't know. It's like a tender box. It's like dry wood just sitting there. And you throw a match in and the whole thing explodes in a, I think we should be a little bit more careful about how we react to that situation.
But it's very difficult, as you and I were talking about before the program, to understand what's going on. It's pretty serious. You have China and Russia on the side of Iran, some people in Iraq on the side of Iran. They have a lot of fundamentalists there who are supporting the Iranian regime. You have, I think it's 38% of Americans now are in agreement with how Trump has handled this.
But, you know, we're not political experts. We're not going to sit here and talk about what politically happened, but maybe psychologically we could look at it.
Cláudia: Yeah, because to understand what politically is happening, I doubt that even the presidents or prime ministers know it all. The dreadful feeling is that there are people handling our lives behind the scenes, and we don't know what they want and what they are up to now.
Do they want a kind of mass extermination? Do they want to cover up some major problem, economic problem? Do they want to cover up another problem that they don't know how to handle? Are they creating a situation that could be called as apocalypse of mass destruction and then to follow their agenda? Or is this really out of hand as it seems? Because it seems to everybody that the situation got out of hands.
Richard: We are trapped.
Cláudia: The people will suffer. The peoples.
Richard: Yeah, but the people are suffering in the world. When you speak about the ones manipulating, you're talking about a group of people.
Cláudia: Yeah, the so-called elite of the new world order or the globalized mentality. It's hard to
Richard: imagine people sitting around designing those things, but I remember one of the presidents of the United States.
Who was the military? The guy who was the military president there. Who talked about the military-industrial complex?
Cláudia: Roosevelt? No, no, no.
Richard: Eisenhower. Eisenhower said, if anything happens politically, socially, for sure it was planned. There's nothing that happens sort of like... Now, whether it's planned completely, this we don't know. And I've often wondered if this group that you're talking about, whatever that is, this trilateral or this Illuminati or whatever this group is that's controlling these many groups that are around, the Bilderbergers, all these groups, if they're just shit disturbers.
I've sometimes wondered that. If they just like to stir up the shit and see where the... Because when there's crisis,
Cláudia: somebody's making money. Yes.
Richard: You know that for sure.
Cláudia: Yes, that's... Oil prices are going up. Then if they destroy a lot, then they will have to lend money to the countries. So banks will make profit, but you know, all this is organized in a false platform, because evil is always insecure, false, a lie, a delirium, it cannot have a basis in anything.
Look, it's like all this floating. So my understanding is that even they, or this they or them, even they don't know. They don't have the full control because they're so demonized. And in the world of demons, nobody has control of anything. It's an emotional world without basis, without energy. Like it's everything delirious. And
Richard: how to understand that mentality. As you were speaking I was remembering a friend of mine who was a businessman at his company.
I worked with him for a while and we had a consultant come in one time who started to talk about the future of the business and help us with the future of the business visioning. And he said oh I haven't got time for this visioning, I got to make money. And I wondered sometimes if there isn't just basically this mentality behind it.
Let's make money. Let's find a way to make money and screw the rest of it. Screw the environment. Screw
Cláudia: everything as if they
Richard: don't need anything of this to live, to
Cláudia: survive. If you want to form a society, you have to form a society upon real basis. Concrete, real basis.
Cesar Soós: Sustainable basis.
Natural, sustainable, divine. Even divine basis, in terms not of a religion, not a religion, but nature being totally dependent on the energy of a creator.
Cláudia: And so I was talking to you a little bit before, before we started the conversation on the air, that we are not religious people. We don't belong to any church. We see many pastors, priests, rabbis, even Eastern leaders, religious leaders,
Richard: speaking about the
Cláudia: spiritual world, and demons, and devils, and evil. Because behind war, behind corruption, disease, poverty, injustice, violence, is this evil, big evil kingdom, if we can call it, because it's not a kingdom, it's a chaos.
So there is this evil chaos behind all of this. And there are chaotic spirits, as Keppe calls schizophrenic, psychotic spirits. These spirits, they may be total spirits, like total uncorporeal beings. They can be people that are already dead, that continue, the souls are there, and living people that have spirit. So, we see all this chaos of the evil world, because it's too emotional, Richard.
So much anger, so much violence, so much envy, so much pleasure to destroy, so much revenge
Cesar: and corruption and entropy,
Cláudia: as we call it in science. They are entropic beings, degraded spirits. So we are being engulfed by this enormous wave of these evil demonic spirits. And when I speak about this, I'm not speaking about a religious person. I'm speaking out of my profession.
I work as a psychoanalyst. I have been working as a psychoanalyst for 45 years. So I have a big experience in our clinic and people that are needy coming to us to be treated. So all of this is confirmed, is taken from experience, from practice, from science.
Richard: What people are saying to you, what issues people are dealing with?
Cláudia: Yes, it's practical. It's real.
We live every day with these things, you know. People come to us, they see spirits, they talk to spirits, they suffer a lot from spiritual matters. And when you get into an emotional state, then you lose your mind, I mean, you lose yourself, you lose your control. It's not anymore you that have the control or the direction of your life. You don't do anymore things that you want to do.
You do things that you don't want to do. And this is part of a kind of a possession.
Richard: You're saying that this is a spiritual influence that's causing this. It's
Cláudia: like we're being driven by, not by our own
Richard: intentions. It's
Cláudia: not only those psychotic people that kill people and say someone told me or the spirit told me, I was told, a voice told me to do this.
This is inside everybody's minds. People do things that they don't know why. And they
Richard: are very sad because they don't want to do it. It's destructive, makes them feel bad, sick, but they do. I want to try and concretize this because for many people listening, I'm sure this is completely new. Right? I think probably in our material world, this is like a new revelation.
I'll tell you what happened to me one time. I was working with Dr. Keppe's book, Universe of the Spirits. We were translating this book. And this is a book where I began to have the courage to face these issues you're talking about, to watch movies about exorcisms, to read Malachi Martin's book about exorcism. I had the courage because of Dr. Keppe's book and your great work with me for many years gave me the courage to do that.
So as I was working on that book, I started to have more experiences that I became conscious of. Probably I'd had them many times in my life and they just ignored them. One day I was down here at the train station. We have a train station just a couple of blocks from our school on the way to a class. And as I was walking along the platform, there was a security guard standing on the edge of the platform.
And as I walked by him, I felt a voice inside me that said push him just like that. And it wasn't
that I heard
Cesar: somebody but I felt this. And normally I
Richard: would have before this time I would have said oh well what a coincidence you know some crazy idea that an
Cláudia: unconscious drive or something yeah.
Richard: And suddenly now I started to think no but this is this is an uh a direct influence from outside me trying to find a resonance with me so I'd actually do something like that.
I would never do that. At least I think I would never do
Cláudia: that. No, because you still have
Richard: control of your will. Yes.
Cláudia: But people that are too much emotional and they get too much involved in emotions, they start doing things that they think they would never do before. They are driven to do. And emotions, Richard, is a field. It's like a merge.
A merge? Yeah. Overlap? An overlap? Overlap between the science of the mind and theology in this area. Spirituality. So it's an overlap. And when you get into this negative emotional life and bad habits, as we call it, addictions, Vices. I don't know, in English we can speak in Portuguese, vicios. Vices. Vices. You are addicted
Richard: to something that is very destructive to you or
Cláudia: to others.
And you can't stop it. So, people come to us because they suffer from this. And sometimes they go to the church. And they ask a priest or a pastor, please deliver this evil from me. Yeah, deliver
Richard: me from this evil.
Cláudia: Deliver me from this evil. And the priests say, no, but this is not a case of exorcism. You have to go to a psychiatrist or to a psychoanalyst.
So they come to a psychiatrist and they say, I hear voices or I feel this or I feel that. Okay. Or
Richard: I can't stop
Cláudia: doing something I know is bad, something like this. So this is just a compulsive behavior or an addiction. They see this as so physical, so physical. So they deny treating this as a spiritual problem. So this person goes to the priest and the priest says, no, I just treat about spiritual problems.
This is a psychological problem. So they go to the psychologist and the psychologist say, no, I don't treat here spiritual problems. I just treat behavioral problems. So you have to take this medicine, da-da-da. Oh, my God. So the person gets totally trapped. Desperate. Desperate, because who's the one to suffer? And so this is the margin. The margins. The margins. The margins. So this is the area we work.
This area, which is
Richard: overlapped. Overlapped. Inside these parameters.
Cláudia: Yes. This is like a gray area, as you can call it, because it's not treated in psychology, it's not treated in churches.
Richard: So when you're talking, now you talked about addictions and people doing things that they would never think that they would be able to do.
Cláudia: You see, any substance abuser, consciously, they don't like to do this.
They are caught.
Richard: And you're suggesting, because of this spiritual... Oh, for sure. ...influence.
Cláudia: For sure. And it starts like in early ages. So that's why parents are very mistaken when they don't perceive that human beings have this upside-down or inverted will inside of them. This seed of inverted will, which we might call a seed of evil or something that is within every human being.
Since they are very, very little creatures, they have this seed inside. But it seems that education, parent education, school education, they want to deny to see this. They want to see children as pure, and their will is sacred, no matter what they want to do. It's sacred. Everybody needs to respect their will. And what happens? Every upside down, every inverted will has all the free ground, perfect culture.
Richard: It's rich. It's prepared almost for this. It's like a rich soil for
Cláudia: this kind
Richard: of… I get
Cláudia: what you're talking about. So evil can grow freely. So they go with this will, and the will grows and grows, and it gets to a point that all addiction, all vices, all perversions, all corruptions, all negative emotions, they take the person over. It's
Richard: like spiritually being taken.
Yeah. Now, when I had a conversation with the wife of a good friend of mine in Vancouver a couple of years ago, we had this conversation about the choice, the will, the desire, and the social learning. There's a big debate about that in countries like Canada, Sweden, where the idea is that everything is socially learned. Everything is programmed from your experiences. In other words, you're born completely empty, and then what you learn is what guides you into these decisions.
And Dr. Keppe and what you're suggesting is completely different from that, that we are inside this social milieu that we live in, social influences. We have an internal aspect, which is this will, which is inverted. So if we choose to go against what's good in a mostly unconscious way,
Cláudia: many times. Many times. So children are not all the time evil in their choices, but they can be.
They kill sisters and brothers sometimes.
Richard: Torture animals.
Cláudia: Torture animals. They deny everything that is good to them, like sleep in the right time, do their school. Brush their
Richard: teeth.
Cesar: Everything that is necessary, the necessity.
Cláudia: Of life so you you need to teach children to follow goodness in their lives, beauty, truth. If we don't conscientize them of this need for their balance and well-being, they, if they are leave left like free to do whatever they please, they can adopt behaviors that are very very self-destructive. And they don't have the notion the the tools to perceive this in time.
So when they realize if they realize it's too late because then it became a bad and a second nature, like an artificial second nature. So goodness a good behavior is is within us when we are born. We have a lot of good energy and good and divine things that must be preserved, preserved from society and preserved from ourselves in terms of this other pathological kind of choices and our pathological will.
Richard: So we have to talk a bit more about this will because I think this is not understood. Keppe's study in the will is quite revolutionary, isn't it?
Cláudia: Yes, it is, indeed. Before
Richard: Keppe, the idea was that the human being, the essence of the human being was freedom. And Dr. Keppe is saying, no, the essence is goodness,
Cláudia: that you're free
Richard: to do good, but not otherwise.
Cláudia: So we need to teach children and youngsters this thing. We should understand this better because society is degrading. It's degrading because the wills are left totally free. No rules anymore, anything, just do what you wish.
Richard: Yeah, Malachi Martin talks about it as not the attack against the church, but attack against the values that the church reminds us of.
Cláudia: So imagine now people in power, playing their power, or playing whatever they like to do in power, playing with so important and vital things and choices.
Richard: And never doubting themselves. That's the thing I understand. This arrogance. So sure that what
Cláudia: they're doing is the correct thing. No doubt that they could be ever doing anything that would be wrong. If you compare a political leader or a rich billionaire with a young boy or a young girl, spoiled young boy or young girl, is there much difference? The difference is that they are dealing with much more risky and huge and important and universal.
Richard: A temper tantrum at that level is
Cláudia: a serious problem. Yes. A
Richard: temper tantrum for a kid, you watch the kid screaming and yelling and you say, okay, it's going to pass eventually. But with a powerful person… You
Cláudia: can blow up the world.
Richard: They're kind of emotional then, is what you're saying.
Cláudia: It's not rational, it's emotional. Yes, and leaders are totally emotional, and they are not taught to deal with their emotions.
Richard: Dr. Keppe said in his book, Liberation Through Knowledge, where he talks about the corruption of emotions, he said the human being acts and thinks through emotions. Yeah. Furthermore, psychology and even psychoanalysis encourage you to manifest or let your feelings loose. Numerous books on psychopedagogy talk about the need to liberate the affectionate life as if liberating that were the cause of all problems.
And little by little, the world goes deeper into darkness. I'm now saying the opposite, that man must come to reason and check his emotions so that we finally reach a period of balance. Because what man suffers is due precisely to what he is doing, releasing all neurotic feelings linked to bad intentions without wanting to employ reasoning to understand them. Isn't that like a...
Cláudia: It's said. What
Richard: a paragraph.
Cláudia: Nothing to add to this.
Richard: Without wanting to employ reasoning to understand that, people just want to act and then don't want to analyze, but why did I do that? That was kind of strange. I should think about that. No, if I felt... It's and I did it then
Cláudia: it's totally right. Yeah. You know that the main book that Anton LaVey wrote this guy that created the satanic
Richard: church.
The satanic bible and
Cláudia: the satanic church. Anton LaVey. Anton LaVey. He left the will of Satan and the will speaks about the will. Human will. You are allowed and you should do whatever you like whatever you please.
Richard: And if anybody tries
Cláudia: to prevent you from doing that... You are allowed to kill this person. So comparing
Richard: this to modern psychology, is there any difference?
Cláudia: Or some powerful people that do whatever they please? It's no doubt. So you see that satanic behavior, satanic studies, demonology is a matter of science. And
Richard: this is what we're teaching in our courses on theology.
Cláudia: Yes, because our theology is a scientific theology.
Richard: Wow, a theology that's scientific. That seems really relevant and essential today, doesn't it? Because just throwing out that thousands-year-old theological wisdom as something archaic, out of date, and even irrelevant seems to me a poor choice.
Our materialistic science was not always so, and we've descended into materialism at great expense. We don't understand anything completely anymore. I hope our program goes some way to addressing that. I know Keppe's Science of Analytical Trilogy does. That's our program for this time. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Talk to you next time.
Home to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness, this is the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: A key inversion in science.
Cesar: Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element.
Richard: And its negative consequences.
Cesar: We provoke serious imbalances in nature.
Richard: Corrected now with the Keppe motor's disinversion of physics.
Cesar: And we developed a way to have mechanical power with very little electricity.
Cláudia: This will make a big change, not only in energetic efficiency, but also it will bring better energy in homes because it's magnetic energy.
Richard: The Keppe motor, new technology for a new world.
