Richard Lloyd Jones: The biggest 20th century one killed millions. An outbreak in the mid-20th century killed far less. 68 was the last big one. But back in the 90s, a flu bug, supposedly from birds, caused a mild panic for a while in Toronto. I was affected by that one, but not my fever or other telltale symptoms. Nope, the Rolling Stones cancelled, and I had box seats.
Today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, let's take a critical look at the swine flu. We're very impacted by inverted science, as we've explored many times on this program. Scientists since Pasteur see all sorts of nefarious things in the microbes swimming in their petri dishes. We have vaccines for this, medicines for that, radical radiation treatments to kill this and that disease. But we miss a key point when we look down at the microbic level to find the source of our maladies.
Disease doesn't really come from that level. Our materialistic philosophy introduced by Aristotle's great inversion that we understand reality through the senses has led us deeper and deeper into the quirks and quirks and further and further from the universal understanding that Aristotle's master Plato suggested was at the root of reality. Infused science, he called it, saying that we are born with that. Brazilian psychoanalyst and social scientist Norberto Keppe agrees with that, talking about the universal concepts we possess.
Divine concepts implanted in the human being, he calls it. And this corrects Aristotle's metaphysical error. The lesser things don't create the greater, we could say. Meaning, the viruses don't really cause our maladies. They're there many times, but what lets them take hold is something bigger.
The state of our psychological lives, which directly affects our immune system. Dr. Roberto Giraldo is a specialist in internal medicine with a major in infectious diseases and clinical tropical medicine. He's the perfect guy to talk about this. He works with AIDS and cancer patients all over the world. He's a very close student of Norberto Keppe's Analytical Trilogy and its effect in psychosomatic medicine, and he doesn't believe much in the swine flu scare.
Giraldo, I was looking at some old ads from 1976 where the U.S. Public Health Service produced a series of public service announcements promoting the value of getting a swine flu shot in 1976. And if we just leave behind the aspect of how much money is made by the companies that manufacture these vaccinations, it was amazing to see how they showed the disease spreading in the commercial.
They had one guy bringing it home from the office, infecting his wife and children and infecting his mother. His children went to the school and infected all the friends in the class. The mother went back to California and infected a friend from California who had a heart condition, and she died. And they're showing, you know, like it's spreading logically like this, you know.
But one
Roberto Giraldo: second, you know something. Now they are using something similar, but they are not using the person-to-person. They are showing maps. So you see how they are reporting now the swine flu. They are showing maps. So they show Europe, or they show South America, and they start to show stars, red stars, red spots, and how they spread from country to country, or inside the country from place to place.
So people who see this become paranoid.
Terrifies them.
Richard: Because people believe that the ones who are talking, perhaps they know what they are talking about. "The truth is that they know nothing." "Really?"
Roberto: "They know nothing. They do not know what they are talking about." And what amazes me is how reporters repeat exactly what these scientists tell them. And that's how it is amazing to see how the media is in the hands of inverted people, of the
Richard: wrong people.
They just follow the thing without questioning. So what's wrong in all of this publication? We see now the Reuters said today, a very inflammatory language, that "Mexican swine flu death toll jumps to
Roberto: 42." Richard, that is violating the laws of infectious diseases. Remember that I have studied infectious diseases for many years. I was an infectologist before. And there is a law of infectious diseases, that usually an infectious disease occurs in a very defined social group.
For example, poor people or people working in these plantations or people working in similar conditions, similar conditions. What is wrong? One of the very first things that you can see wrong here is how come a virus starts in a country like Mexico? Only Mexico. And they are blaming Mexico and Mexico and Mexicans.
Richard: They are blaming one Mexican boy like
Roberto: if the whole country was guilty, like with something wrong is going on there.
And this has to do with some myth about third world people. The idea in general is that third world people are dirty, are blacks, are ugly people, they are not very clean, which is not true. So when they gave that idea that the epidemic started in Mexico, people in the whole planet will think that is true. That's not the way that infectious diseases behave.
Now, the other thing that is wrong is the emphasis, and it's against scientific knowledge, is the emphasis that the scientists and the reporters, well, the reporters taken from scientists are making on the virus itself, like the virus is an important thing.
And for any infectious disease to occur, there are three requirements that are very important. One is the microbe or the agent, the infectious agent. The second one is the mode of transmission.
Richard: The way
Roberto: you're going to get it from one person to another. From one person to another or from the soil to the person or from the animal to the person, through air, through ingestion, through the lungs, to different ways of getting it.
That is the second way. And the third way is the most important one, is that people who get in contact with any microbe need to be susceptible, need to be debilitated, need to be immune suppressed to get an infection. Otherwise, all of us would be dead, because the planet is full of germs. We are full of bacteria, and all of them are part of the creation.
So, you remember that since we were children, the idea of medicine and society, that microbes are something horrible, bacteria is something horrible.
To be afraid
Richard: of. Bacteria, parasites.
Like, if that would be like that, that means that God created something wrong. And nothing is wrong. And germs do not attack us. Never. Never, ever a germ attack us.
Roberto: During the Cold War between Russia and the United States, it is true that they tried to develop microbiological weapons. I know that because in 1965, when I was a medical student, I became fascinated with that idea of the microbiological weapons.
Because I thought that the idea was wrong, was against the knowledge. I said, "how they are going to create a bomb with germs to infect normal people? Because normal people do not get infected."
Richard: "No, because we have an immune system that fights off these kinds
Roberto: of things." "Exactly. The inner doctor, the inner pharmacy." United States and Russia, they have research done to try to find a virus or a parasite or a fungus.
And they had several candidates. One of them was anthrax. Another one was the smallpox. They were crazy about this germ.
Richard: There's two things I want to say. First, this question of disease coming from viruses. This is a very Aristotelian view of science. Let's talk about that first. Very important. Little ingredients create big diseases.
Roberto: Richard, this is the main inversion and the main error of the whole medicine.
The whole medicine is that medicine is giving the idea, it's Aristotelic, it's very materialistic, and medicine feels that all problems come from outside. So, they blame viruses, bacteria, parasites, fungus, and also they blame toxins. And it's true that toxins sometimes can be dangerous, or electromagnetic fields can be dangerous. But if they were as dangerous as they think, all of us should be dead, because the planet is full of chemicals, the planet is full of electromagnetic fields, and waves of all kinds.
Richard: We're sitting in a room full of electromagnetic fields now.
Roberto: Exactly. But we have an immune system, an inner doctor, a doctor that Cláudia Pacheco used to call, the inner doctor, the inner pharmacist, I think the name is perfect, that is a presence from God to fight problems. This is happening in nature. For instance, in the animals, they don't get so many infections, they don't get so many diseases because their own immune system fights for everything and neutralizes.
And something that comes out from that is the business of medicine. Because if the cause is external, according to them, so they create the pharmaceutical companies to create products, antibiotics, antiparasites, antitoxins. The people. Actually, that were the cause.
Richard: Yeah, we need to talk about this a lot. I have a second point I want to make in a minute, but
Roberto: let's follow on this point first.
Because Dr. Cláudia Pacheco said that
Richard: "an attitude of opposition to reality could cause us to read or accept the essential divine energy invertedly." Yes. And this could cause a subsequent inversion in the physical DNA in our bodies. So what she's doing and what Norberto Keppe's work is doing is trying to disinvert this idea that everything comes from the outside to look at the inner aspect of disease.
This is not very popular with people. We don't like to see the inner cause of our things.
Roberto: However, Richard, I am traveling from many countries. I have seen that at least in the last 10 years, doctors, some doctors, not all of them, therapists, natural healers, they are tired of this craziness of medicine, of commercial medicine, this aristotelic and inverted medicine. And they are starting to look inside the person, inside the person.
Still, they are not in the proper way. I think that the best idea has been developed by Dr. Norberto Quepe here in Brazil. And that's why I'm here. I am here because for, as you remember, for more than 25 years I was working with patients with AIDS. I have been also working with patients with cancer. And I started to observe for many years something very interesting.
Is that people who heal of AIDS or people who heal from cancer, it didn't depend of what medication or what treatment they did. I saw many people who heal without any medication. So it's that when I started to see that everything depends on the person itself. And I started to see that the personality was very important, the negative emotion or the positive emotion of the people.
And this is not something new. For instance, in the times of Galeno, in Rome, he used to say that emotions were very important to get sick.
Very important to get sick. This is the year 300 after Jesus. And for many years, there have been people who have been trying to speak about it. There was a disciple of Freud. That was Franz Alexander. And Dr. Cláudia Pacheco and Dr. Roberto Cepeda know the work of Franz Alexander. He was expelled from Austria. And he came to the United States. And he created in Chicago the first center of psychosomatic medicine.
That was at the beginning of the 20th century. The thing is that medicine and pharmaceutical companies was very much against him. So when he died in the 50s, the Center for Psychosomatic Medicine finished. And at the same time that that was happening in the United States, here in Brazil, Dr. Norberto Quepe was working in the hospital, in das clínicas, in the University of San Pablo, and he created the first center in Latin America of psychosomatic medicine.
Now, why I think that the work of Dr. Keppe is the one that makes more sense, that is more scientific, because I can see it in the patients in everyday life. So it's something that is scientifically proven, that for any person to get sick or to heal depends on their own emotions. That is what Dr. Keppe is showing, that it depends on the negative emotions.
And the negative emotion in each of us depends on what? Of our spirituality.
Richard: It's much more convenient for us to think it's something outside. Exactly. Because then we don't have to see anything inside ourselves. I think this is very interesting because when we start to talk about the individual reason for disease, the emotions, the psychological attitudes towards things,
Roberto: this is not as popular as it should be.
Not at all. Not at all. Let's come back to swine flu.
You said at the beginning of our interview, you said, "but this is totally crazy. This is totally ridiculous." What's ridiculous about it? It's ridiculous that they're making emphasis. It's an aristotelical thing, materialistic thing, on the micro. Like if, and that is speaking like if everybody who gets in contact with the virus. Let's suppose that there is a true epidemic, which I doubt a lot.
For instance, in Brazil, there are now 26 suspected cases of flu. And you know something very interesting? In the news today, they are saying that they are expecting for tomorrow, for the day after, the kids to diagnose the swine flu because they don't have the kids here. So they don't have the kids here to diagnose how they were suspected. This is absolutely ridiculous.
This is out of sense. This is against scientific laws.
It's because in the way that the scientists are reporting, are creating an epidemic. And this is known in the scientific world for years, of epidemic hysteria. Yeah, they talk about this. Hysteric epidemia. Because the way that they describe, and they show the symptoms of the disease in the television and the newspapers, people who read that or who see the television, they start
Richard: to get sick.
And they start to, because this is what is called nocebo effect, that is the contrary of placebo effect. You listen to the radio and you start to cough and you start to feel that everything that you have is the same. But this is exactly true. I do many translations here with our translation department or correct them. And I
Roberto: do many for urology.
And I'm not kidding you, Geraldo. If I'm reading these symptoms and I start to think, I've got that, sometimes I'm a little painful.
Everybody. For instance, people who study medicine. I remember one of my classmates, she was getting every single disease that we were studying. Every single disease. If we were in infectious diseases, she got an infectious disease. And she was not crazy. I remember sometimes she got a glomerulonephritis and she was urinating blood. So she created everything with the mind. So could you imagine now, with all the reporters about the swine flu, and he's speaking about the cases that are increasing, and it's crazy.
Listen, when Felipe Calderon, the president of Mexico, gave the alarm in the television two weeks ago, after the World Health Organization and the Department of Health of the United States told him that there was a, because he didn't know. But the World Health Organization from outside, the Department of Health from the United States told him that they have an epidemic of swine flu in Mexico.
And this guy went to the television and told the people, "we have swine flu, and the symptoms are coughing, fever." Do you know what happened? In four hours after the president spoke, the health center, the hospitals, were full of people. They were vomiting, they were coughing, they were getting sick. And why the president did that? Because he learned from the World Health Organization and the Department of Health of the United States.
The
Richard: second point I want to make is that something I heard you speak recently, where you said that our problem is that we think that nature is dangerous. We think that microbes, nature is dangerous. This is a big projection. Actually, we're the danger to ourselves and to nature. We're far more dangerous to nature than nature is to us. So talk a bit about how you see this projection
Roberto: now.
I think everything in society and everything that we have on earth is a creation of God, and it's good. Everything is part of the paradise. It's we ourselves that decided that the things are wrong. So we blame, instead of seeing our own problem, our own craziness, our own psychopathology, we blame everything. We blame the viruses, we blame the things. Now they're blaming the pigs.
You remember years ago, they were blaming the cows because of the mad cow disease. The birds,
Richard: the bird flu.
Roberto: This is crazy. And sometimes they blame, I remember in the United States, they created the epidemic from time to time, and they were blaming the spinach in California. You can eat only spinach from Florida. All this craziness is trying to think that things in nature are wrong, that the products are wrong, and they're not wrong.
We human beings are the ones who are making things wrong. For instance, now we are creating oranges, lemons, without pollen, without flowers, with this genetic engineering. So we, in our idea and craziness, to try to create a better world, we are destroying everything. And this is one of the reasons, Richard, why, for instance, the honeybees are dying. Honeybees are dying because they are getting poisoned with all these agrochemicals.
They don't have pollen to eat, all these things. Cell phone
Richard: transmissions. Exactly, all this craziness. And, you know, of course, whenever there's a pandemic outbreak, somebody's making a lot of money. Oh, yes. I
Roberto: was reading in
Richard: the paper today that Roche has a medication against pandemic viruses, right?
Roberto: Especially the swine virus.
Richard: The swine virus, and also they used it against the bird flu.
So they have, like, millions, I think they have something like 22 million doses of this, so they can...
Roberto: 220 million doses. And
Richard: they're going to make a lot of money from this.
Roberto: But something very interesting, Richard, is that the same, the very same day that the president of Mexico spoke, the same day, the CDC of the United States in Atlanta and the World Health Organization started to speak about the medication that, according to them, is good against the swine virus made by Roche Pharmaceutical Company.
And Roche said, "yeah, don't worry, we have 220. Million Treatments. However, we are working double to produce more. So we are going to protect the people of the planet from this pandemic that is coming." Now
Richard: let's talk about the solution to this in our last few minutes. Dr. Keppe said, I think fairly recently in one of his television programs, that illness appears because a person's immune system loses force because of something internal.
And if we lose force, then anything causes imbalance. This would suggest that we need to do something to build the immune system of people and not terrorize
Roberto: them into this epidemic hysteria that you're talking about. How do we
Richard: build the immune system?
Roberto: I can make doubt that there is an epidemic. However, if it is, what we should do is completely different thing.
And this is what we are trying to do here in Brazil in our schools, our languages. And this is what we are trying to do with many places, with organizations that I work in South America and Europe and Africa. We're trying to do the contrary, to stimulate the immune system, to stimulate and what we are doing, what we should do. First, it's just to take the knowledge of 100 years of immunology and it has been demonstrated very well that a simple diet can stimulate the immune system.
So in this situation, we could eat more fresh fruits.
Richard: Go back to basics. Fruits,
Roberto: vegetables. There are some fruits that would be better, like carrots, lemon, because they are antioxidants and they stimulate the immune system. Garlic is a very potent immune stimulant. And besides that, what else we could do? Be happy. So who can help us to be happy? Artists. This is the moment that we should do instead of creating this craziness to make concerts in the television, everywhere, with musicians, and then to make people happy, to take people who can tell jokes in the television so that people can laugh and can enjoy life.
Dance therapy or singing therapy, all the things to stimulate the immune system. There are many things that we can do. We can teach to the people in the television just to breathe deeply every hour, to breathe deeply and that stimulates the immune system.
We can use some yoga individuals who are expert in yoga or in Tai Chi to explain some exercises. Very simple. So, and it's very simple. It's no cost at all. And that's why they're not doing it. Because this is not going to be good for pharmaceutical companies and for the crazy people who are in power.
Richard: Maybe the first thing we should do is replace the television news programs with news of disaster with opening
Roberto: the museums and the art galleries and inviting people to partake in art a little bit.
Exactly. To go to museums, to go to the parks, to enjoy the flower, the beauty of life, to take artists who paint, to explain people the importance of colors, how the colors can stimulate the immune system, how the colors can harmonize our energy, many things. And if we want to do it even a little bit deeper, we can go to increment the spirituality of people.
How we can do that? It's not with religion, but it is telling people that we need to love ourselves and to love our the rest of the human beings. There is something very interesting. I don't know if you remember the experiments of Masaru Emoto. Masaru Emoto is this Japanese who spoke about the water, how the water feels and how the water changes with the...
How
Richard: it responds to prayer, to
Roberto: good music. And the interesting thing is that our body, more than 70% is water. 70% of plants and animals is water. And something very interesting, Richard, more than 70% of the earth is water. Showing that air is also a kind of living thing. So it has been demonstrated by this guy that bad emotions change the crystals of water.
And what they are doing with this television scandal, with this terror, with the medical terror that the World Health Organization is making and the Department of Health of the United States is making all over the planet, what they are doing is to destroy the crystals of water, to destroy our immune system.
They are creating a lot of things And instead of doing that, we should do the reverse that has been demonstrated. Music of Bach, Beethoven, beautiful things.
Richard: These medical issues are controversial. We've been fed a materialistic medical philosophy for decades, and anything against that is not given the same weight. But Keppe's psychosomatic orientation offers profound healing and integral health that modern medicine can't touch. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
