Richard Lloyd Jones: He revolutionized the field of medicine and has numerous institutions named after him to prove it. He was one of the most celebrated scientists of his day and a giant in medical circles even today. He supposedly proved the germ theory of disease, the basis of modern medical education. But Louis Pasteur's science is highly questionable. Today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, debunking the germ theory of disease.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Well, we are entering sacred territory today on our program. Pasteur's ideas have been sacrosanct for at least a century, and all significant medical research is based on his proposals. The multi-billion dollar industry that is cancer, AIDS, and numerous other disease research initiatives is firmly entrenched in our Western world, as is the powerful pharmaceutical industry and even the areas of immunology and vaccination.
Not much of modern medicine is untouched by Pasteur's influence. But in looking at his life, you enter a world of subterfuge, deception, and just plain wrong conclusions. These wrong conclusions, by the way, were cynically adopted by Carnegie and Rockefeller in the U.S. And used to influence medical research and education in most of the developed world for one purpose, to sell pharmaceuticals that they were developing from the waste products produced by their coal and oil industries.
That's right, there were serious ulterior motives at play in the promotion of Pasteur's scientific conclusions. Not the first time this has happened, of course. Henry Ford was instrumental in leading the move in America for the creation of the suburbs. We shall solve the city problem by leaving the city, he stated, thereby combining his social vision with his economic self-interest. You can sell a lot more cars if people are commuting back and forth at great distances every day.
This blatant manipulation for economic reasons is probably not surprising to you. It's not new either. Who was surprised to find former Vice President Dick Cheney's company, Halliburton, suddenly, surprisingly being picked to lead the rebuilding of Iraq, shortly after its former CEO pushed so hard for the war that would necessitate the rebuilding. But what may surprise you is that at the time of Pasteur, there was an entirely different scientific view being elaborated at the same time in total opposition to Pasteur's ideas.
And this science is the more certain one that has certainly been proven out by our research today at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy, In fact, in many institutions around the world. And, of course, 2,500 years of Chinese medicine, too. That more complete science came from the formidable research of French biologist and medical doctor Antoine Béchamp. And who has ever heard of him?
Incredible, that, isn't it? His work is far more in line with Dr. Norberto Keppe's studies in psychosomatic medicine, and this truly deserves our attention today. As always, you can check out all of our work on our Trilogy portal at trilogia.ws. That's T-R-I-L-O-G-I-A dot W-S, trilogia.ws. And of course, you can email me anytime at rich at richjonesvoice.com. Connect with me when you want, and I'll make sure you get steered in the right direction so you can learn more about Norberto Keppe's great science.
Today, medical doctor and infectious disease specialist Dr. Roberto Giraldo joins me again to talk about the fascinating battle between Pasteur and Béchamp. This is new territory for me, Giraldo, because I knew nothing, almost nothing about this. There was quite a fight in France in the late 1800s about what was the cause of disease. They were exploring a lot of this kind of work, I guess, in their science, in their medicine there.
And there was a big battle between Louis Pasteur, a name everybody knows, and Antoine Bechamp, who nobody knows. Nobody knows. And it's this difference between the germ theory and the cellular theory. Maybe you could just paint the picture for us. What was this battle? What was going on then?
Roberto Giraldo: Yeah, the thing is in this way. Louis Pasteur was not a physician. He was a chemistry guy.
And he used to work in the Sorbonne, University of Sorbonne in Paris. He was not a very known person originally, but it happened that he got married to a lady, Mary, Mary was her name, who was linked to the bourgeois.
Richard: Bourgeoisie, there's a word from my old history class.
Roberto: Exactly. And in those days, they had a problem in France. The main economy of France was the wines, the beer, and the champagne.
And they were having a problem with fermentation. Sometimes they got a wrong taste.
Richard: You're saying wine and beer, right? The wine and beer industry. Yes. We're having problems with fermentation. Fermentation.
Roberto: Sometimes they got a funny taste. So they asked some people to find out. And Pasteur was a chemical guy. He started to search about it. But at the same time, Bechamp, who was a medical doctor, he was also specialized in chemistry and physics and biology.
Richard: He was famous in Paris at the time.
Roberto: He was very famous as an academic guy, very academic. And he was a member of the Académie de Sciences de France, Bechamp. Pasteur was not yet. Bechamp started to study fermentation. He, Bechamp, loves microscopes. This is very interesting. And it happened that Pasteur was also working with microscope. He was trying to find the crystals of different material through the microscope.
Salt, sugar, things like that, soil. And Becham was the very first one who found out that for fermentation to occur there needs to be a fungus there, a yeast. So he started to think, but where did the yeast come from? So Becham was interested for this. Where did the yeast come from? So he found that the yeast were coming from something that used to be in the grapes themselves, and some particles that were not living organisms, were not bacteria, were not viruses, well, they didn't have life.
There were some very teeny, teeny particles that move when he washes under the microscope, and they noted that they cause fermentation, and they generate fungus. So, he called those particles microzymes.
Richard: Microzymes, I
Roberto: guess, yes. Microzymes. That means small particles that are enzymes.
Richard: Yeah, and small enzyme, right?
Roberto: And that they generate the yeast, and the yeast got the fermentation. So, the real origin was the thing.
And he started to search, and this was very fascinating in those days. Because Bechamel started to see that those particles that he called microzymes were everywhere. For instance, in live animals, in the blood, in the skin, in the saliva, in dead animals, in the plants he found in the plant. But something very interesting is that he found the same moving colloids as he called before, in even minerals, in rogues, in fossils.
Richard: They were living?
Roberto: They were in fossils? They were like moving and still living? They were moving. They were moving. Wow. And in those days, Richard, the idea of life was anything that moves was living. Right. So he thought that this was like little animals. However, later when he started to search them under the microscope with higher power, he saw that they were not cells, that they do not have nucleus, that they were just a protein.
So it was an energetic protein. And that's what the cause of the movement, what the resonance, the energy that was there.
Richard: And where did he go with his research? Where was this taking him? What ideas was he developing from this study?
Roberto: He started to, because at the same time, Pasteur was doing something on fermentation. And Pasteur decided that the cause of fermentation was the yeast, also the same.
But Pasteur found that, decided arbitrarily, that the yeast came from the air, from the air, from outside.
Richard: You say an arbitrary decision. There was no proof to back this up.
Roberto: It was a delirium idea of Pasteur. He just thought that it came from the air. But Becham was not delirious idea because Becham saw them coming from inside from little particles. So this is the origin of the external cause of problems.
And I
Richard: think this is the key thing to talk about. This is
Roberto: the beginning of what's called the germ theory. That is
Richard: by Baster. Which drives all of science, all of
Roberto: medical science today. Exactly. But Richard, there was something very interesting. It's a book that was written by Pasteur in those days. The first book that Pasteur wrote is called The Diseases of Wine and Beer.
He showed us that Pasteur was not interested in human beings. Pasteur was interested in helping the rich people, so the factories of beer. And he wrote this paper. And there he said that the cause of the diseases of the wine and beer was external microbes from the air. And at the same time, Becham started to send papers to the Academy of Sciences of France, explaining that no, that the cause was internal.
Was internal, that depending on the chemical conditions and the physical condition of the juice, the microzymes generate fungus or not.
Richard: Now, you said at the beginning that Bechamp was well-known and Pasteur not so well-known at this
Roberto: pace. Yes, yes.
Richard: So how, and I'm assuming that Pasteur's idea was accepted more than Bechamp's idea at the time. Is that true?
Roberto: Yes, but that happens, and to understand that we need to know how it happens.
It happened because the wife of Pasteur has a lot of influence on him. She was a lady who was the daughter of a teacher in a university. But that guy was linked to the owners of the factory of the wine and beer. So in a certain way, the wife of Pasteur was linked to the bourgeoisie, to the rich people, to the owners of the factories.
And at the same time, they were linked to Napoleon. So there were several moments that Napoleon III invited Pasteur to the palace.
Richard: In fact, Pasteur
Roberto: was decorated by, this is Napoleon III now, not the
Richard: great, okay. And
Roberto: Napoleon III decorated Pasteur, so he was well known. Yes, and he was the one, Napoleon III, who asked the academic of sciences to receive Pasteur there.
So, you can see here that was a power decision, was not a scientific decision. So, Pasteur was a member of the academic of sciences due to his link to Napoleon III. And
Richard: so, Béchamp, who was doing this study through microscopes to see these microorganisms that you call microzymes, he called microzymes, and Pasteur was making the same research, but coming up with a decision not based necessarily on a study he was doing, but based on an idea that he had.
Is this the
Roberto: essence? And Pasteur, that's the origin of what is called the germ theory of diseases. And let's explain. The germ
Richard: theory of diseases that is still the
Roberto: main basis of the actual medicine, dentistry, all the profession of health, all the scientific research on biology and medicine is due to Pasteur. That the cause of diseases are germs and that the germs are external.
This is the germ theory. And this is why, for instance, nowadays, this idea about the swine flu is the same. It's a Pasteurian idea.
Richard: The germ theory states simply that there were separate diseases and that each disease was caused by a particular microorganism. Exactly. And so the research is being done to find that microorganism that can be responsible for this disease.
Roberto: And now there was something very interesting in those days, Richard, is that when Fasteri started to see the pus or the sick person or the urine or the stool, he found microbes.
Indeed. So he saw that those microbes were the cause. He didn't know that those microbes were the consequences of what was going on inside. And he linked each microbe to each specific disease. That's what you were explaining. And he had one microbe from each disease. And this is still the idea in medicine nowadays. They want to find the microbe that causes cancer, the microbe that causes AIDS, the microbe of Alzheimer's, the microbe of arthritis.
They have been even worse. They have been looking for the microbe that causes schizophrenia and the microbe that causes this depression. Crazy.
Richard: In fact, there's a story that came out in an article I was reading as I was preparing for this on the post-antibiotic age where Bechamp, this unknown to us scientist who was a great scientist it appears, he was given an amputated arm one day.
It was brought into his laboratory. The arm had been amputated from a man who had developed gangrene. So he had a gangrenous limb, Bechamp, and he found no bacteria in it. There was no bacteria there in this gangrene limb. And after a few hours, bacteria began to appear, but it didn't at the time, when he first received it.
Roberto: It didn't cause the gangrene.
The bacterias were a consequence of the gangrene.
Richard: This is the decision that was made, that bacteria can't be the cause, it's the effect of the gangrene. And so, this is a completely different idea.
Roberto: Completely different idea. Richard, this is because we were saying about the germ theory of Pasteur. And Véchan was building the idea with many papers that were published in the main journals in those days, scientific journals in France.
And he was sending all the information to academic of sciences. So he built in those days what he called the cellular theory of disease. Meaning that the origin of illnesses was in the cells itself of the body. Inside, he's very well known because he said the terrain is the problem. The condition that surrounds the cells, what is going on in the tissues is what causes the disease.
And Bechamp said, all those microbes that Pasteur has seen as causes are consequences. Bechamp explained that perfectly.
Richard: Now, the big question, maybe one of the big questions, there are probably many, because why was Bechamp forgotten if he's such an established scientist, if he's developing this theory very clearly made, and there are many people that agreed with him as I'm looking through this article.
I can see even on his deathbed, Pasteur, in effect, said, yes, it's the terrain that makes the difference, not the bacteria, not the germ. Why was Béchamp forgotten and Pasteur's idea, why was it promoted so
Roberto: much? I think this is due to the inversion of society that is for millennials. So in those days, Richard, the main idea was to find the cause of, the single cause of any phenomenon that still prevails nowadays.
They want to find the cause of a hurricane or the cause of anything.
Richard: And they want to find this cause outside, right? Outside. This is
Roberto: the inversion you're talking about. Not only the inversion about the outside, it's the inversion of the single cause. Because for any phenomenon to happen, you
Richard: need different factors. So it was easier for people to believe that a single microbe was causing this disease.
This is a much easier idea.
Roberto: Yes, because it's linear, mathematical. But Becham's idea was completely different. It was multifactorial. To happen a problem, you need to have a tissue that is weak, a surrounding of the tissue that is the chemical conditions are wrong for different reasons. The champ started to know that things has to do with the style of life of the person.
He discovered and he mentioned that. That is the way people live, the way people behave, we're causing the inner thing. He didn't mention very much the emotions that comes later, very much the emotions because the development of psychology in those days was very primitive.
Richard: Bechamp said that every disease is associated with a particular condition.
Roberto: Exactly.
Richard: This was a physical condition in his case.
Roberto: Physical and chemical.
Richard: And chemical. And now
Roberto: we're seeing with Dr. Keppe's work, this is much more a psychological condition too as part of the factor. Richard, Dr. Keppe, 40 years ago, when he wrote his first book, The Medicine of Soul, he explained that beautifully. How the negative emotions, the envy, the pain, the anger, the fear of everything is created a lot of imbalances inside the body. And that was the origin in the germ theory and the linear idea.
Richard: So I can think of another reason why this germ theory would be so accepted because if you have a germ responsible for a disease, you need a drug to conquer that germ.
Roberto: That's very important, Richard, because up to the middle of the 19th century, the medicine was based on Hippocrates' ideas and was to stimulate the inner doctor that all of us have.
So you study the books of medicine from French, the French medicine in early 19th century, you see how the important thing was the doctors to prescribe some herb or something to stimulate the inner defenses the inner doctor of each person of each person. But at the end of the 19th centuries they started to think in how to to heal more strongly and the idea of Pasteur were very simple and even Pasteur wrote very clearly in his articles.
If we find the microbe that caused the illness, very simple, we find how to kill the microbe. That was the origin of the drug industry.
Richard: And the beginning of this, I think, was the process of vaccination, right? There were many people experimenting with vaccinations at about this time.
Roberto: Yes, yes. Vaccination started before we generated in England with the cows. But Pasteur did crazy experiments about vaccination, very crazy experiments with cows, with different animals, and then even with human beings.
And he killed many people. And the same would happen, that would happen at the same time with Robert Koch in Berlin, who killed a lot of people who he injected with the bacillus of tuberculosis. And the very idea of vaccination is based on Pasteur. And this is a very controversial issue, Richard. I think one day, if you want, we can go and talk a little bit about vaccination.
Because nowadays, there are many associations and organizations in Europe. In the United States, I'm related with many organizations who are searching this issue of vaccination and who are very much against vaccination. And now we know that on the planet there are many people, even with more than 30 years, that have never been vaccinated and they have a perfect normal life. But this is a very controversial issue.
We'll come to that later. But the important thing now is the very idea of vaccination was based on Pasteur. I forgot to mention something interesting, Richard, is that people who were reading carefully the articles by Pasteur and by Bechamp And even in those days, Bechamp knew that Pasteur,
Richard: he was
Roberto: plagiarizing Bechamp. Pasteur was indeed a criminal.
Richard: No, there was a book written about that by a woman who had to disguise herself, had to disguise her name.
I'm just looking for
Roberto: it. Hume. Hume,
yes.
Richard: Hume, H-U-M-E, is the name of the man
Roberto: who was actually a woman who had to disguise her name to write this book. It's a big critique of the… She did fantastic. She went to check all the manuscripts by Pasteur and Bechamp. And she was the one who found out more how Pasteur was a criminal.
And many people in those days in France, they knew that Pasteur was doing that. And they knew also that Pasteur was wrong. However, they didn't have the courage to speak out. Why? Because since they knew that Pasteur was a guy of Napoleon, they were scared. Because they have all the power. Because even
Richard: the Pasteur Institute was created in the life of Pasteur by the government.
In fact, before he died, Pasteur instructed his family not to release some 10,000 pages of lab notes after his death. They were finally released in 1975. I know. And there was a historian from Princeton who went through the lab notes, And his conclusion was Pasteur published much fraudulent data and was guilty of many counts of scientific misconduct. Exactly. So he was promoted, and I think his ideas became very popular because of another very important thing that was happening around that time, and that was the introduction
Roberto: of the
Richard: pharmaceutical industry, which was founded primarily by two big names in the United States.
It would be Andrew Carnegie and J.D. Rockefeller. These are big names, and they were very supportive of Pasteur's idea because they were looking, now this is a crazy story, but they were looking for some use for the waste products from the coal and oil industries that they were very involved in. And so they thought, if we can find a way to turn those into drugs, that we can make a lot of money on the waste product.
We make money on the coal and the oil and also on the waste products from
Roberto: the coal and oil. So Pasteur's ideas were taken. Can you talk a bit about that process? Because that's fascinating. That's very interesting, Richard, because I didn't know about Andre Carnegie. And I found out about him when I was searching about Pasteur and Bechamp and all these guys.
And this guy was a rich guy in New York, very rich. And he knew Nikola Tesla and he wrote against the scale of energy of Nikola Tesla.
Richard: Now, Nikola Tesla, I was just saying, many people
Roberto: don't know this name. This is one of the greatest inventors of the late 19th, early
Richard: 20th century, created all of the electrical generation technology that we use today, over 700 patents.
His patents today are worth trillions of dollars. This was a great genius. So just to mention his name, sorry to interrupt.
Roberto: Yes, it's very interesting because this Andrew Carnegie attacked him to defend the wrong and inverted ideas of Einstein, who was also in the United States, Einstein. But why this is important to know? Because at the same, Béchamp died at the age of 96 when in 1908, the same year, 1908, Andre Carnage and John D.
Rockefeller, they gave the money for a project in medicine that is called the Flexner Report.
Richard: Sorry, Abraham Flexner, the Flexner
Roberto: Report. Yes, this is fantastic. And how this report is the original pharmaceutical industry.
Richard: Abraham Flexner was a non-physician teacher was hired by the Carnegie Foundation to travel throughout the country and observe medical education. His study, the Flexner Report, was published in 1910.
Yes. And it was the foundation for all of the Carnegie and Rockefeller medical training that
Roberto: infiltrated all of the universities or the big universities in the United States. Because before that report, medicine was still based on Hippocrates. Was still based on stimulating the inner doctor, the inner pharmacy, the inner defenses. But with that report, it started that the school of medicine, dentistry, nursery, should start to teach that the diseases could be treated with external medication, with external product.
And that's the born of the medical industry. And that's interesting because that's how Rockefeller went from oil to pharmaceuticals. And you're explaining something very interesting. People say, but how you can go from oil to pharmaceutical? Yes, because he was thinking what to use with the waste of the oil industry. So all the origin of medication was on garbage.
Richard: That's incredible.
Roberto: It's unbelievable, the origin of medication.
Richard: So if we think about the medical schools at the time, the big universities in the medical hierarchy that were connected to this Carnegie Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. They're all the big names today. Case
Roberto: Western Reserve, Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Institute of Chicago, University of Chicago, Harvard School of Medicine, University of North
Richard: Carolina. These were all involved in standardizing medical education. These guys are very smart, these smart in between quotes.
Roberto: I know, I know.
Richard: They think that, look, if we can influence the medical education, we can also give ourselves
Roberto: a market for selling our drugs. Unbelievable. And this is still the main medicine that prevails nowadays in the whole planet. And all the, even the scientific research that many people that believe that scientific research is clean, it's not. Because it's financially by the drug industry.
So those who give the money put the conditions. And this is, everything is corrupted, everything.
Richard: In fact, the germ theory at that time had been sort of, hadn't been so well accepted yet. At that time of this, it's kind of received a new breath of life.
Roberto: Oh, that was Rockefeller and Carnegie. They adopted Pasteur. They resuscitated Pasteur. They started to speak out about Pasteur in all universities in the United States.
Because the idea of Pasteur is that the cause is external. So that was good for Rockefeller and Carnegie because so the treatment should be external as well, a medication or something from outside, not from inside.
Richard: Yeah, they say in the article I was reading that the germ theory was a perfect fit with this market-oriented paradigm of medicine, right? If bad
Roberto: bugs out there cause disease, then we need some good drugs to kill those germs.
And
Richard: this has led us in science to a very materialistic point of view and a very incomplete point of view in our medicine today, right? We're trying to solve the disease. Well, we're not trying to solve the disease. These big medical industries, they don't want to solve the disease, so they bury any kind of publications that don't agree with their point of view.
They just bury them. They get totally lost somewhere. They negate them in the press because they want to continue the disease because that's how they make their money.
Roberto: Yes, but listen, Richard, in the mind of researchers in medicine, this is
Richard: very strong,
Roberto: the germ theory. In many universities, University of California or Johns Hopkins, like you mentioned, or Harvard, some people who are studying, for instance, virology.
They found a virus. Somewhere in a person, a virus, or an animal. And then they start to search for a disease for that virus that they found. Because they know that if they link a disease to any germ, then you can get money with the medication that you are going to invent to kill that virus or to kill the bacteria. Something very interesting Richard that we didn't mention that because people who listen to us choose things but hold on microbes exist bacteria exist
Richard: and parasites
Roberto: exist so you are saying that this is not true.
No, obviously that they exist but Becham explained what was they for instance. Becham this is why Pasteur is known at the monomorphic germ theory because Pasteur was saying that each bacteria has only one form, a bacillus or a cocus or a spirochete form. Becham was able to see because he spent nights and days watching under the microscope and he saw with his own eyes how a micro sign is the condition in blood, for instance.
He started to study the blood of the person. If the person was healthy, So the condition was healthy. He started to see that the microzyme could create good cells and the microzymes could heal the cells. But at the same time, Wei Chang was able to see how if the condition of the blood was not good for any reason, what was happening inside the person, the microzyme started to mutate, to change to virus, to bacteria, or to fungus.
And he saw and you can see the drawing that he saw with his hand how he saw that it's beautiful and this is the pluriformic or multiformic theory and how bacteria have different forms. And many people who listen to that say but this is crazy is that they forget that there are many examples of that that we know in even in allopathic medicine in conventional medicine for instance paludismo, malaria.
The parasite has different forms during his cycle of life. For instance, inside the mosquito, the plasmodium has a form. Then in the blood, it changes to a different form. And then to the liver, it comes to a different form. That has even different names. Gametocytes, sporozoites, schizontes, different names. According to the form. And Becham knew that. And there are also nowadays people who are studying, for instance, the stem cells, the mother cells, stem cells.
They can go to different kind of cells, so they can change.
Richard: Depending on the organ that they're implanted into, they change and change.
Roberto: And this is why, Richard, I think that if the study of stem cells is revolutionary, It would be even much more revolutionary and more help for the humankind if we go back to study Becham's research and go back to study the microzymes.
Because microzymes are before the stem cells. They can generate the stem cells. So they are before the stem cells. And I don't know if we should mention here that Becham died in 1908. And in those days was a young doctor in Germany who was about 25 years old that is Gunther Enderlein. This was a doctor, physiologist fantastic Gunther Enderlein. And he took all the research from Bechamp but not still in all he took that and he gave the credits to Bechamp and he started to go deeper in the studies of Bechamp.
Because in those, that is the second, the third half of 20th century, from 1920, 30 to 1968 when Enderlein died. Because in those days they had better microscopes. So he started to study everything. And Enderlein gave the name of endoviants, endoviants for those micro signs of the charm. And he was able to see and to take now photos and to draw with artists all the what they call endobiosis or the development of these endobions or microzymes depending on the pH of the blood, depending on the chemical condition, the internal condition.
So they can take a path to heal cells or they take a path to create viruses, bacterias and fungus. So what we're trying to say is that the microbes do exist, but there are consequences, no causes. Now, once they are generated, they can take over. They
Richard: can take over, of course, yes. This is fascinating, and we could talk a lot more about vaccinations and all of the strange cases they had, for example, of vaccinating people with tuberculosis in Germany
Roberto: and finding that the people with the vaccinations died faster than the people who had tuberculosis.
Exactly. There are many examples of this that are interesting, but I want to just come to you now. You're obviously a natural doctor. It's obvious from the way you're speaking that you have a lot of orientation towards natural forms of healing. How has your view changed from studying Dr. Keppe now? Because Dr. Keppe is not a medical doctor, but his psychological development has an enormous impact in medicine.
Richard, for many years since I was a medical student, I started to study psychosomatic medicine. I started to study Frank Alexander, who was a disciple of Freud, because always I had by intuition the idea that the emotional things were much more important than the doctors agree. And I was always on a study of psychosomatic medicine. Then I started to study what they call in the early 80s psychoneuroimmunology.
But still there was something lacking there. I had a lack. So I remember when I was in New York in the 80s and 90s I started to join all the groups who were doing natural medicine. But I started to see that the most important thing was spiritual that has to do something deeper than the simple emotions. And I went to all these lectures, seminars, congress and I found them very superficial.
I went to congress of quantum physicists and I found them very superficial. And thanks God, in 2004, Flavia Pacheco came to New York with a liver problem and she gave to me the book of The Origin of Illnesses. When I read that book from Dr. Keppe, immediately I said, this is what I have been looking for 60 years. What I found there different, different Richard, was the spiritual link, the real spiritual, the link with God.
For me was fascinated because I saw it with the AIDS patient that I was working with that those patients who were more humble they could live so when I read Dr. Keppe and then Dr. Cláudia the healing through consciousness I said oh my god this is beautiful. But why that kind of study is different from all these people who are doing quantum physics and those people who are doing spiritual healing. Because the other people lean to God, but to God like something abstract, something on the air.
Dr. Keppe, defend God scientifically. God is a scientific fact.
Richard: That's what they found in Dr. Keppe's clinic is the people who have faith, who have a belief, they heal faster. This
Roberto: is scientific. Richard, I was seeing that 20 years ago when I was a patient with AIDS. And I have been looking for this in Europe in many places, the science of Dr.
Keppe, how he joined philosophy with science and theology and with the study of God is unique. The center is the spiritual part. So to get any disease, this is what is fascinating from Dr. Keppe, you have to have a problem in the spiritual side. Yeah,
Richard: it's beautiful because Dr. Keppe's work very much talks about how the essence of life is goodness, truth, and beauty, and health, and all of those things.
That's the way we are naturally. So if we have a distorted condition in any of those areas, that comes from an attitude, comes from a philosophy of life. It's not something from the outside. It's an internal condition that then affects the physical aspect of ourselves. Many people are talking about this, but I have never seen it so deeply explored as it is in Dr.
Keppe's work.
Roberto: Richard, just before we finish, I forgot to explain something, especially for the people who are listening to us. How you can know if what the child was saying was right or not? Well, nowadays we have a microscope that is called dark field microscope, that this is the design that was developed by Gunther Enderlein. And even nowadays this is not approved by the medical establishment and now here in the trilogy we have one microscope and there are people who have studied that for years and you can see you can see with your own eyes what the child.
We used to call the third element of the blood. Because before Bechamp, they saw that the blood was cells and serum. Bechamp added the third element, that is, cells, serum or plasma, and the microzymes. And you can see them. And you can see them changing. Changing to cells or changing to microbes. This is fascinating how we have a real proof that that is true, that this is not fantasy.
Richard: Dr. Keppe was telling me recently that maybe this germ theory of Pasteur's was spread so easily in North America because we're very exteriorized people. We see everything as coming from outside, and that's a problem. Keppe's science is working to correct that. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
