Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are supposedly deep in the middle of a change in consciousness on our planet. The Aquarian Age, the New Millennium, the Third Wave, whatever you call it. Many advocate a new era on our planet. I also am optimistic, but I believe some knowledge is missing from our collective education. Some missing pieces of consciousness that impede our evolution if they're not put in place.
One of the primary things lacking is a deeper understanding of the pathology of power. For, it must be obvious, we are living in a society where our freedoms are being increasingly restricted. And those restrictions are being imposed by, let's just say it plain, the psychotics in power. And so it's to a deeper understanding of psychosis that we must dedicate ourselves.
For these psychotic tendencies run rampant in all of us. And knowing this makes it possible to control them. And really accomplish this new civilization we so desire. False and true power today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Here we are on the Stop Radio Network once again, our lovely network available through our website at heatingthroughconsciousness.com.
So if you're looking for us in any of those places, you can find us on the Internet all over the place. We're also streaming through iTunes. When we think about power, I was thinking about this as I was doing the intro to this radio program, that this is not something that's well understood. Plato said that "the measure of a man is what he does with power." At the same time, Orwell said "we know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it."
And therein perhaps lies the problem. Not that only the powerful have this difficulty, but all of us do. It's just that the people who take power are often the sickest, most paranoid, and corrupt individuals on the planet. So it's really the right moment for us to try to free ourselves from these demons who really exploit us. Society, as it's organized today, is actually becoming inhuman.
The people are ill and anguished and unhappy because we feel crushed by the powerful. Here in Brazil, for example, we are paying enormous amounts of money in taxes and receiving almost no benefits for that. There's so much corruption politically in this country. But that corruption is not only a political corruption. It's inside the whole of the civilization where people want to get for themselves and not contribute in any way to the greater good.
And some friends of mine are living in China now. Our engineer for the Keppe motor, Cesar Soós, is there helping develop the Keppe motor in China as we speak. And he was telling me that during the day, it's quite notable that a lot of the older people, the people who are retired from the society, they're out cleaning up the parks and the public squares and doing all of that kind of work because that benefits the group, the whole.
It's not to advocate that what's going on in China is the perfect answer. Do everything. But this sense of working for others and working for a greater society, this is very, very, very important. Now, Dr. Keppe has talked about this in his great book, Liberation of the People, The Pathology of Power. And he says in his book that "when I say that the powerful are corrupt," I'm quoting from his book now, "many of you may raise the objection that the people in power are, for the most part, law-abiding citizens, that in general they respect the social laws."
Indeed, that is precisely where the problem lies, Keppe goes on to say, "for the rules and regulations have been designed to protect economic power, and that in itself is immoral. Such laws are wrong, then." All power without control is dangerous, Keppe talks about, but economic power in and of itself is the most dangerous of all. And here's how the power system works, the technique of power, as Keppe describes it.
"The individual succeeds in acquiring a position of command and the submission of a certain number of employees. He then distributes the work among them and awaits the results. He generally makes use of teaching techniques, and if the results are to his advantage, he praises and rewards those who increased his power. If they're not, he blames the failure on his subordinates. And little by little, this powerful person puts himself in the position of being infallible."
Don't we see this in politics, and the politician or the person in power in the situation withdraws further and further from reality, and eventually reaching the point of issuing orders so absurd that his subordinates find them strange and may even refuse to obey. But he always has this protection of a group of very good employees who safeguard him from total debacle, as Nixon had his group surrounding him, Haldeman and Ehrlichman and these kind of guys, surrounding him, protecting him from the consequences of his situation.
So this happens all the time. So a person in power cannot survive without the group that surrounds him. So this is what's happening all around us. And we don't understand this very well in ourselves, certainly in other people too. We give a lot of leeway to these political people or these leaders doing absurd things and then excusing them whenever they say that they're sorry or because we think that in some way that they are right or correct.
Don't we really need to understand this better? Well, that's what we're going to do in our program today. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins me in just a moment to look at false and true power. That's when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues on the Stop Radio Network.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: In the United States, there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: "The new world order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles."
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who is responsible for it.
Cláudia: "They are like sharks, and you are like fishes in an ocean."
Richard: The people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated it.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
Don't ruin what is good if you want a good life. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
I was looking at your incredible book, The American Drug Multinational. This is a bomb. Yes, it is. In this book, you say, we have to be careful of the criminals, highly dangerous, who have infiltrated communities and public bodies, such as the government, the legal system, the police, the churches, the schools, mainly in positions of economic and public power.
They are much more dangerous than the drugs which they distribute. They are the psychotics and psychopaths described in the book Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, Keppe, Pacheco, and others, who act like demons to destroy civilization. What is the purpose for raising this today?
Cláudia: In the United States, we understood 20 years ago or more that the drug cartel and the drug business has been kept as something underground in order to achieve the goals that those people in power want to achieve.
Because if you make something legal, things will come to the surface. People have to pay taxes for what they sell, and you will know who is selling what, who is producing what, and who is consuming what. And we would have chances to deal openly, consciously about a huge problem. And you cannot consider a problem that has no participation from people in the police, in customs, in the charge, in the head of banks, in everywhere.
They
Richard: show in the film American Gangster, they show actually bringing the raw heroin in the caskets of the dead soldiers from the Vietnam War out of Thailand during the early 1970s. It's shown right there in the movie, so it's pretty clear this is happening. There's a collusion somehow with the powerful.
Cláudia: "Absolutely. Absolutely. Only stupid people don't see this. And if they would open the accounts, really open the accounts of all this money that is laundered in United States banks, not only United States, now in all over the world, Bahamas, and when they speak in French, la plaque tournante, where people launder the money and all that money goes.
So everything is a big casino, and the money that comes from drugs and the trafficking of arms is huge, huge all over the world. So this is a traffic of death. And people are not only killing very young people."
They sell drugs in front of schools. They put people under this toxic dependency very early, in early stages. So, one of the most important... Things is that they want, as they did in those times where mafia dominated Chicago, when the alcohol was forbidden. Prohibition. Prohibition. So the
Richard: same thing happens now. Do you know there are a lot of Canadians who made a lot of money during prohibition?
They were shipping alcohol over the
Cláudia: border. So now they're doing
Richard: out of drugs, which is even more effective. I just wanted to say, Cláudia, when we're talking about this, I can always feel, because, you know, I've been here in Brazil nine years now. But when I first came, this idea that there was such an organized level of corruption in the power structures of the first world was, to me, was hard to understand.
I sort of knew there was something strange, something was not good, something was rotten, but I didn't understand the extent of it.
And I remember a conversation you had with a Dutch guy here in Brazil fairly recently, where he was saying, "but there's so much corruption in Brazil. There's so much drug trafficking going through Brazil and going through Colombia. And we've got to stop the drug trafficking there." And you said, "but wait a minute, where are the drugs going? They're not being used by Colombians.
They're not even being used much by Brazilians. Those drugs are going through those ports. And going where? Are they going to Rotterdam? Through the ports of Holland?" And
so this is important. The first world really
Cláudia: needs to wake up to what's going on in this question of pathology of power. And when you speak about waking up, here comes the core of the problem.
Because in the 60s, you saw like generations of Americans, North Americans, South Americans, Europeans waking up, wakening up, wakening up to what they have been living and dying for.
And they decided that they were not anymore willing to go to war in Vietnam or anywhere else in the country just to fight for the economic financial interest of the powerful. So when this started people got afraid. People in power got really afraid because this wave energetic wave of consciousness was really threatening their pillars. And so people were starting to realize, as Keppe puts in his books, that "democracy is something different from capitalism.
Leaving exploitation and speculation free, this freedom doesn't mean democracy. Democracy is a totally different thing. It's freedom of consciousness. It's freedom of rights, human rights is as Roosevelt said" and where Michael Moore put in his last film Capitalism
Richard: a Love Story. Yeah
Cláudia: good good documentary and where we see Dr Keppe's ideas well described well uh like implemented.
It's incredible how he he like he got the spirit and so there he um is showing that. And Roosevelt, at his time already, he wanted, his wish was to put into, like a new constitution, new bill of rights in the American constitution, where all the basic things, human, things where human rights should be guaranteed for every citizen. This
Richard: was powerful for
Cláudia: me.
Independently from race, creed, age, whatever. And this almost happened but he died before that.
Richard: He died a year before. He proposed that and then died a year later and that proposal never got implemented, you know, and it was even, it was well before Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement was far before they enacted civil rights legislation in the United States with Kennedy and Johnson, far before that.
Cláudia: It wasn't Roosevelt's wife who helped to write the International Universal Bill of Human Rights in Geneva, in the UN.
His wife helped to write down this bill. And this is universal. This is universal. But it was never implemented anywhere on the planet. So when people started to say, oh, come on, we have these ideals, We had a president that brought this into light. We now are questioning about our rights, civil rights and human rights inside this country. So people in power started to research how to control people without necessarily putting them inside a prison, arresting them.
And this was something that they tried to do in the campus, in Berkeley and New York, Columbia University, the most advanced centers of civil rights movements, California, New York, and Paris. So they were upset because they should put in prison many, many intellectuals, writers, young people, artists, and the thing was growing all over in Latin America.
They implemented a dictatorship, a military dictatorship at the
Richard: same time. In every country.
Cláudia: In every country. So this was at the same period of history.
Richard: They took away democracy in Iran, which had a democratic government. The CIA destabilized the democratically elected government in the 50s, and the Shah of Iran was the result, and the Ayatollah Khomeini was the result, and now we have this mess in Iran caused by destabilizing these governments.
South America has managed to maintain, but Central America is still very, very destroyed
Cláudia: by that
Richard: CIA activity there.
Cláudia: So at the same time, they implemented a plan to imprison human consciousness and minds. So they would do like a brainwashing to direct human beings inside their minds, the way they think. So they would be like imprisoned, innerly imprisoned. So they would not have this difficulty to arrest them, to fight, because fighting physically with thousands of people would require...
A revolution is always very difficult to hold back. And normally results will come from those revolutions. But if you control the minds, it's so easy because people don't threaten anymore any governments. And they understood at those times with the Blue Bird Project
in the
Cláudia: 50s with the CIA, working with Lilly Pharmaceutical Company and other pharmaceutical companies and some psychiatrists that were bought by them.
They realized that if you combine some techniques of brainwashing and influencing minds through electromagnetic devices, through subliminal propaganda and teaching, and through marketing, and those many, many instruments and tools they developed to subliminally influence minds combined with drugs, this would be the most effective way to numb the consciousness of people in the world.
Richard: The 20th century is the rise of public relations and public relations is directly related to the rise of democracy.
They were terrified of democracy, the powerful. They wanted a way to control it so public relations controlled by the corporations by the government is the way to influence people and the direct it's right there in the beginnings of public relations. Edward Bernays the nephew of Freud was the founder of public relations and it's right there at the beginning. There's an intelligent few that need to control the thinking of the mass population and they
Cláudia: made it and they did it.
They did it
Richard: so now we
Cláudia: don't even well we don't know how to to deal with this situation because people got hooked. They are being slaved by this technique.
Richard: Let's include drugs here. It's not just the cocaines and the heroines.
Cláudia: Pharmaceutical drugs.
Richard: Yeah, which is much more the majority of people, right? If you look at people in America now, I mean, good heavens, there are two or three prescription drugs each person, you know.
Cláudia: And even children are prescribing drugs. So people, if they start taking Prozac or antidepressants, they will never get rid of those drugs anymore. So they will be hooked in this, and their brains will not work properly. Because we need to work with both sides of the brain, and our consciousness must be lucid. We must have this flux of energy, natural flux of energy.
And those chemicals, they impede the synapses of the neurons in the brains. So people don't think anymore. They cannot think properly anymore. They don't even dream anymore. When they are asleep, very seldom they dream. And dreaming is a very important aspect for mental balance. So the thing is very serious, Jones. But we hope that the energy of consciousness will be always stronger than anything else.
Richard: And let's keep that consciousness coming, Cláudia.
We're back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head to look at false and true power. Back in just a moment. Don't go away.
Any
Cláudia: area of endeavor, it's very much stopped by this concept of money, the importance of money. This is the biggest inversion in society.
Richard: In the mid-1980s, Norberto Keppe wrote an extraordinary book that redefined economics and gave us hope.
Sofie Bergqvist: And I understand now that this book, Working Capital, is really the solution. It gives people enormous freedom to grow and to do even things more beautiful and better for the community and better for everybody.
Richard: Work and Capital is Norberto Keppe's provocative and prophetic view of how the economy has been usurped by the 1% who've tricked the people into a form of slavery.
Now, we have the means to set ourselves free. We
Cláudia: are free in economy to work, to do what is good, beautiful and truthful for humanity and not to feed the envy, the megalomania, the theomania of a few individuals or powerful people.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's work in capital.
To know thyself, as Socrates intended, depends on our awareness of envy.
Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. We're looking at the mentality of the powerful. This has not been studied or understood very well, Cláudia, and that's why I think Dr. Keppe's work in this area is so important.
And, by the way, not loved much by those in power. We, the people, however, do love it. Describe his work a little bit better for us, Cláudia. In
Cláudia: this book, he analyzes the powerful, the economic, financial powerful, mostly them, which he calls the sadistic phase of humanity or a human being when he gets hooked on money and aggression. Power. And power, social economic power.
They are hooked in a stage, very undeveloped stage of their psychological development. So, those people, they substituted love and feelings of love, romance, beauty, by money. So, money is a very materialistic approach, very cold, very dry option in life. And the most unbalanced individuals that they cut off with the right side of the brain, they tend to be attached to money and to power.
So they have just one side of the brain working.
Right, the right side of the brain being creative, universal, feeling. More feminine side.
Cláudia: More intuitive. More intuitive. More related to the feelings, feelings, aesthetics.
Spirituality too.
Cláudia: Spirituality. So if you want to have a balanced way of thinking, a truthful way of thinking and understanding of reality, you must use the both energetic waves of the brain, which is the right side and the left side.
So people who only use the reason, the rational side, they are not rational, they are intellectual, and they are alienated from reality. So what do I mean? If people substitute love doing good uh being good for the others being all terror-centric wanting to do good for others if you if you if you cut off the sense of being loving a loving creature you will be a monster and uh you won't be
Richard: half a loving creature you'll be
Cláudia: the opposite.
You will be a monster. You will be like a demon. You will be an anti-being, which is against life and against even oneself. So those delinquents, they are against themselves. So these people in power that only want money, they are totally disconnected from their own reality, too. So that's why they are dry. They live alone. They don't have friends. Generally they don't they don't do like a a real marriage with another person meaning a loving relationship but they do contracts social contracts and and when these contracts are and are menaced uh are threatened by by
some
Cláudia: betrayal and they always are because they are always betraying each other because they are married with money not with the other person but with the money the other person has and can offer.
So
Richard: this is totally, this is a totally anti-civilization.
This is why we see so much cruelty. When we watch Michael Moore's new documentary, we see the cruelty of the system. It's in Portuguese, inacreditável, it's unbelievable.
Cláudia: And what we discovered through Dr. Keppe's research is that those cruel people, they are absolutely sick people. They are delinquents and psychotic. They are really psychotic people. They need treatment, mental treatment. They need to be held back as if they would, as if no, because they are mentally sick people.
But as they have money, they have the social power, and they buy people. So the common people who are more human, they should understand this, that those people in power, they are much less intelligent than the people who work are.
I heard in a documentary recently, I was watching Neil Young, the great Canadian artist, wrote an album, a series of songs against the Iraq War and
Richard: then took his three colleagues, Crosby, Stills and Nash, with him on a tour of America to sing these songs.
And he was very controversial. There were people in the audience booing and walking out and other people who were loving it. And it was this real polarization. And I heard one of the comments of a guy saying, look, if you have never been shot at, you can't criticize the government. Those guys are smarter than you are. And you're saying exactly the opposite now.
They're not smarter than we are. No. They've lost their intelligence. Yeah.
Cláudia: They hold the people back by power. They use the army. They use guns. They use bombs. They use physical power even to hold back intelligent people.
Prisons, there are more
Cláudia: prisons. So they use brutal force in order to hold back people. They are not more intelligent and more capable. And this is the danger.
They are really dangerous people. It is as if people from a sanitary, mental health hospital, they would like have guns and power to put in prison the psychologists, the nurses, the psychiatrists, and take the situation for their own desire, whatever they want.
So if there is this shift of power in the mental hospital, imagine what is going to happen. And this happened in the world. And people in power, they get furious against our work because we expose the necessity that they have to be seen as mentally unbalanced people because if you if you do what they do they are not mentally balanced people at all and inside their homes and the private lives they have this children's habits preserved like sometimes sucking the fingers or using having um like neurotic habits like weird habits like dressing as females or like dressing like babies and and sucking
Richard: their thumb.
They
Cláudia: have many habits that are like children and they they perform they behave they speak like children they change their voices and they want to be seen and treated by their women or their lovers as a child.
So they very frequently behave like children inside their private homes and this is another facet, an infantile pathological infantile behavior fixated in the previous years of development. Right,
Richard: when they were just little kids and you know this kind of psychotic dialogue we hear all the time, we don't catch it. And because we think that the psychotic is only the guy who goes to the school and kills 11, 12 kids, that's the psychotic.
But we're not perceiving it in our society. I was watching an interview today about nuclear power. There's a congressman in the United States named Ron Paul, who has many good qualities. He speaks a lot against the U.S. Federal Bank, and he's written a book about it. So he has a really good side to him. But he's a big fan of nuclear power.
And in the middle of this situation with Japan, He's talking about how nuclear power, the reaction to the problem is overblown, bigger than it really is.
And then he said, listen to this. I want to see if you can think this is kind of like a psychotic comment. "Nuclear power is very dangerous, but it's also the safest form of energy we have." What is this, Cláudia? This is like...
Cláudia: Well, this is delirious.
Richard: "It's very dangerous, but it's the safest form of energy we have." How can you put those two together?
Cláudia: Well, Richard, here you see a form of delirious thoughts and reasonings, like totally outside of reality. But you can also see that every time there is a more severe case of psychosis or stronger neurosis, there is always an ethical component involved in the situation, meaning lack of ethics. So all psychotic has delinquent behaviors and intentions. So there is no possibility of having a psychotic without traces of psychopath, psychopathy?
Yeah,
Richard: psychopathy. Yeah, psychopathy.
Cláudia: So there is a very strong and straight relationship between lack of ethics and psychosis. But on the other hand, Richard, as Freud saw it and as Keppe emphasizes, there is not such a thing as a balanced, a true normal human being. There is no difference in quality but in quantity of pathology amongst us. So the difference between a regular and more balanced person in society and a psychotic inside an institution is the degree, the amount of pathology he does not control in himself.
Because the tendencies, the desires, the impulses are very, very the same. But the difference is that when you are more like normal, more ethical, you perceive the difference between what is good and bad, what is real and unreal, and you don't pursue that false, that lying kind of living, living in a lie as psychotic do. So they accept lying to themselves and to the others, and they end up by not perceiving anymore what is lie, what is true, what is reality, what is fantasy.
So they don't see that anymore.
Richard: Dr. Keppe was just reading this morning as I was preparing in his book, Liberation of Knowledge, where he said that "psychosis is like a permanent fight against consciousness." And this is something we don't understand very well, that we have like a frame, an internal frame of ethics, of goodness that's been implanted inside. So when we go too far away from that essential good nature in our thoughts, in our actions, obviously, this is psychosis.
Cláudia: Yeah, and this can only happen in human beings because nature, it's all limited. Nature is all ruled by laws, natural laws, but they don't go against those laws. So we have to consider really the revelation, as Keppe did in his work, because Freud always tried to deny the existence of a transcendental life, a spiritual life. He never considered that.
And he tried to deny this and to prove the opposite. But as Keppe saw it, and I wonder, as you put, when we try to be bigger than God even. But if we consider that there is a God, so do you agree or do you don't agree? Do you accept or you do not accept? Because if we do accept the existence of God, we have to see everything under another perspective.
And not considering that if I accept that God exists, I'll go to the church on Sunday services, and I pray some prayers, and I ask forgiveness of my sins, or help some poor people, or you help something here or there. But my God, if God really exists, as many people know deep down, even if they deny, that there is a creator. So everything changes perspective.
It
Richard: does indeed. The demons have wanted to establish their own kingdom. They've chosen human beings to be their slaves.
And we've reached a moment, though, where we must stop to think and to feel. And this moment marks the end of that inglorious undertaking of wishing to create a realm that is not that of the Creator, a realm opposite to the true kingdom. So we are on the threshold of a new society through understanding this psychopathology that Norbert Tocchetti is talking about.
That's our program for this time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
The sickest people want others to be the way they idealize them. Norberto Cappi. Disinverting the human being and society.
Cláudia: I remember the book Glorification that Dr. Cappi wrote.
I was with him many of the nights or days where he got those inspirations from God, and it was a necessity for him to write what he received.
So the book was totally written under inspiration. But it's not only a theological book. It's mostly a scientific book, very therapeutic book, very beautiful, by the way. And he used to wake up during the night, two, three in the morning, and he said, "let's go to the top of the mountain." And we were watching the sky in this dark night with no interference so you could transcend the sky and see heaven through it.
Oh my god, you could adapt the writings that he did with the music of Beethoven and this would be a trilogy of his writings and the music. It would be heaven.
From
the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil, this is the Stop Radio Network.
