Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Like so many words, romance has been banalized in Western culture. Coming to a head in what we now know as medieval chivalry, it's become associated with more mundane items today, like chocolate and Valentine's cards. Those medieval tales talked of chivalric adventure and didn't combine the idea of love until late into the 17th century.
Romance, then, has something to do with flowers and candlelight dinners, but much more to do with tilting at windmills, it appears. And it's in this latter sense that we embark on our adventure today. And like words such as service and humility and reverence, this definition of romance can seem a little fuddy-duddy in our hip-and-flip era, where nothing is sacred and all is looked at with a jaundiced eye from our position of bitchin' awesomeness.
But true romance is anything but lame, and nowhere near as anachronistic as modern society would like us to believe. Let's do go a little deeper today, recapturing the flavor of romance today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. If you're just tuning in to us for the first time, you should know that our program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, has been produced as a podcast since 2006.
So that means a lot of archived programs around, wealth of material on the Science of Psycho-Sociopathology, elaborated at Norberto Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy.
You know, like most of us, I've had a pretty narrow view of what romance is.
Romantic movies, romantic dinners, romantic music, it's been pretty much limited to the more man-woman relationship thing, don't you think? So that's locked us into a mostly sensory understanding of that concept. But if I think back to my English Lit days at university, I can remember a whole chunk of the term being taken up with the romantic poets of the 18th and nineteenth centuries.
Shelley and Byron and Keats. Tragic love in the mist and moors. Heroic acts in war. Emotional and fiery idealism. For these artists, romanticism was a way of expression, the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings, as Wordsworth put it. There was an imperative to loose the shackles of traditional forms and to let the untamed imagination and feelings run free. In the galloping verse of Byron, or the moral conflict of Goethe, there was much more going on in the Romantic movement than a knight on a soft rug in front of the fireplace.
In Norberto Keppe's view, it was a time dominated more by the third phase of childhood development, as explored by Freud. Keppe has applied those phases, the oral, anal, and genital, to societal development, not just individual development, and realized that the third, or genital, phase was more in domination at that romantic time. The nobles, the elaborate architecture, the interest in the natural world were all signs of a more obvious passion for the sensory character of life at a different level.
It was a monumental time of Schelling and Mozart and Beethoven and Balzac and Bach and Smith and Malthus and Engels, and the influence reverberates even today. But modern times are dominated by economic concerns, by materialism, by the competition and lust for power and money that represent the second phase of childhood development.
The anal sadistic period. Not exactly an example of the evolution of society we so long to congratulate ourselves as achieving. So it is this other sense of romanticism that we endeavor to explore on our program today. As all of my conversations with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, Vice President of Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy, we touch many bases in our considerations. Stay with us for a fascinating journey, recapturing the flavor of romance, when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues in just a moment on the Stop Radio Network.
Learn the
truth about energy and matter. Dr.
Richard: With listeners in more than a hundred countries, you're listening to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, our signature program on the Stop Radio Network.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: I remember a client. She has a near problem, a syndrome. When the person starts to get deaf.
Richard: A landmark psychological science that helps us understand physical disease.
Cláudia: But with analysis, the syndrome stopped developing.
Richard: And helped solve it without drugs or surgery.
Cláudia: The doctors told her, "now you are a healthy person. Take back your normal life."
Richard: Healing Through Consciousness by Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is a profound book loaded with case studies that explain the root cause of our health problems.
Cláudia: And this morning, she woke up with a heavy heart, as if she was expecting something different from the doctor.
Richard: And what we can do to really solve them, not just take away the symptoms.
Cláudia: So the most difficult aspect is for her to even suspect that she has an inner life that she's not aware of.
Richard: Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco's Healing Through Consciousness, the revolutionary scientific method that treats both mental and physical illness through dialogue alone, making clinical treatment, medicines, and hospitalization unnecessary.
Richard: We are here on the Stop Radio Network. Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. And I hope we're helping people to think with different heads than what they've thought with in the past, Cláudia.
Because, you know, as I look around, I see a lot of things going on in the world that are worrying, as we say in English. Preoccupante, as you say in Portuguese. I
Cláudia: like so much your accent. Probably you like my accent. Yeah, I do, I love
Richard: it. Maybe I hope so. Charming, charming. So we could begin to think that all is lost.
But it's not true. I felt when we were having our meeting with you and Dr.
Keppe on Sunday A couple of days ago As people are listening to this program We record this program, of course, and then produce it later We have a meeting oftentimes on Sunday in our country home with Dr. Keppe and Dr. Cláudia's scientific meeting, we were talking about all that's going on in the world and all that has gone on in the world in the world of trilogy, the world of particularly Dr.
Keppe and Dr. Cláudia's lives and the group who has followed them for 30 or more years. And there was a lot of talk in our meeting on Sunday about how the attacks, the authorities trying to control the development of Trilogy happened, particularly in New York, in the United States, and then on into Europe, too. You were talking about Sweden and Portugal. And you know what the feeling I had, Cláudia?
I had a feeling of the scope of human history, That human history has been unfolding in a certain pathway, not to say like an evolution, but in a certain way.
And it has been very much dominated, human history has been very much dominated by evil, by bad intentions, by the pathology of power. The
Cláudia: hidden unconscious pathology.
Richard: Hidden unconscious pathology, collectively and individually. At the same time, there has been, particularly since Dr. Keppe's work has entered, there has been a movement for a new society, for what we would call maybe a divine society, a more perfect, a more just, a more society of
Cláudia: values.
We could name it maybe disinverted society.
Richard: Disinverted, okay. So to give it a name, a disinverted.
Cláudia: Because converted society looks like religious, and what Dr. Keppe means is not
Richard: religious. It's something that we have to put society in its regular, normal way, like to put back, because it's totally upside down. Right, right. So to put it back on its feet, you know, in a way.
Cláudia: Reversed. I don't
Richard: know what, how, what, disinverted. So I had this feeling as you guys were talking, Dr. Keppe was talking a lot about what had happened and the various attacks that have happened against his work and how it's been stopped as much as possible by the powerful and yet how it continues to move. So I had this feeling of like the clash between the way it's been and the way Dr.
Keppe's work is trying to make it sort of accurate.
Cláudia: Yes, because you see, Richard, if the main pathology in human being and in society is inversion, and by inversion, we understand that we are. Totally unconscious of this. Mostly unconscious. How we give value to what is bad and how we reject what is good. And this is put onto the laws in technology, in professions, in studies, and in our intellectual life.
So everything you see is developed in this inverted direction, against humanity, against human beings, against nature, against civilization.
So you see that, especially in the 20th century, when technology developed a lot, it developed in the upside-down sense. It created in physics, for
instance, nuclear power and nuclear bombs
Richard: and the way to better kill people in major quantities. So they become more perfect, specialized in killing and producing war.
And then in medicine and pharmaceutical, they specialized in things that mostly harm the health of human beings than help.
So, they never discovered any way or they never wanted to develop any way to help people with cancer, with Alzheimer, with HIV, whatever.
Cláudia: Diseases that, by the way, can be created by some of those technologies that they developed, like agrotoxicos,
Richard: toxics. Petrochemicals. Petrochemicals.
Cláudia: On the food, yeah. Polluting the air, polluting the seas, polluting food, polluting water, and a lot of electrical devices.
Electricity is totally against human health. And lately, in the most recent studies that physics developed, non-compromised physics, they understand that electricity in itself is very harmful to health. It's not kidding that you see around those huge
Richard: electrical power stations, power
Cláudia: plants, you see that thing
Richard: that danger, danger, don't touch the fence because it's it's absolutely kills people, fries people.
And it's not only when you touch, this emanates, emanates waves of energy or destroys all the magnetic field around these stations and any electronic devices you have in your house.
We have so many nowadays. And it's totally polluting, energetically polluting our homes, our offices. It's suicidal, you see, Richard.
Cláudia: And some of the most destructive developments we had is that we chose quantity instead of quality.
We chose putting money first and work as a consequence or as submissive.
Richard: Yeah, subjected
Cláudia: to… Subjected to money and not the other way around. We see powerful, lazy people, investors, being like the owners and slaving a lot of people with capacity, like scientists, artists, business administrators that are capable, industrial workers. So all of them are subjected to this small group of individuals that are super, super, super rich and are totally dishonest.
Dishonest. So dishonesty took over, yeah. And
Richard: yet we're following because we, because of our
Cláudia: inversion, yeah, because we think this is the best. Because we think that if you are honest you are a loser. Most people, I
Richard: think, Cláudia, have never thought about what you're talking about now in terms of electricity, in terms of uh even money, you know. Most people, I was reading a report, uh this is from a couple years ago now, from a clinical psychologist who says that why we've stopped fighting back against the forces of oppression, because we're totally broken.
We've been so beaten down. Now I, I don't totally agree with his premise here, but I think this idea is true. We've been so bombarded with the marketing of the inverted world, yes, that we don't even know, yes, we
Cláudia: are. We
Richard: are born
Cláudia: in this inverted culture. Thinking that it's real. And it succeeds because we have this seed, the inverted seed in ourselves.
So we have a tendency, an impulse. It's totally irrational, but we have an impulse to feel attracted to what is evil, to what is dishonest, to attack, to be aggressive, to go downhills, to kill, to commit suicide, to destroy our health, to mistreat our beloved ones. So it's there. The seed is there. It's our pathologies. And people are not conscious of it.
They don't imagine how wonderful, how magic, how marvelous a disinverted life would be, where people would be not egotistic, not egocentric, would be honest, ethical,
working for the good of other people.
Richard: So they don't even imagine how wonderful and magnetic, totally magnetic this society can be. We don't need to live the way we are living. This is crazy. This is beautiful because we don't even think about it. We don't wake up in the morning and think as we turn on our electric razors and our electric blenders. We don't think in any way that this is contributing to destruction of the planet.
And I think one of the biggest problems we have, certainly in North America, is this, Cláudia, because as you're talking, I'm thinking, wow, like you're putting your finger on like something so enormous and yet so simple. In a way, it's simple, but it's so enormous because it affects every area of human activity. We have this idea somehow that if we tell this story, that this is going to beat people down more.
Like if we talk about we live in a totally crazy world, people are going to get more depressed.
And it's exactly the opposite, that if we really start to see this, we can move.
Cláudia: In 10 years, we would transform the face of this planet totally. It would become almost a paradise.
Richard: If we disinverted ourselves.
Cláudia: Yeah, if we disinverted the laws. For instance, if today everybody would decide to disinvert the world, it would take 10 years to have something wonderful already.
Because we have all the means, Richard. We have alternative energies. We have green alternative source of energy. If we don't put money for the powerful above everything, so we start going back even to some practices. Like we see in this email I sent you about the way we lived with no electricity, with no...
Richard: Let me explain what this is. How's our time here?
Yeah, I've got a few minutes. I think it comes from England. It's an older woman who is checking out at the store and the young cashier suggests to her that she should bring her own shopping bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.
And the older woman apologizes and explains, "well, we didn't have this green thing back in my earlier days." And the cashier responded, "well, that's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations." Well, right away we see a little bit of arrogance there. But then the older woman goes on to write about all the things that they did back then.
It's starting to be back in my generation now.
When we refilled writing pens. When we replaced razor blades instead of just throwing them away. Where we walked up the stairs. Where we walked to the grocery store, we didn't drive a car to go two blocks. Where we rode, our kids rode their bikes.
And she starts to tell all the things.
Didn't need a treadmill. Yeah. Because people would walk to the store.
Cláudia: Everybody worked. So they were active, so they exercised in work, by working. So you see so many good values that were lost, and they are so much healthy and possible to be back again. Because this society, the way it is today, was not organized by people. It was organized by this crew of lunatics, this group of lunatics.
Richard: Crew is right. Like a crew of, yeah, exactly. Crew of lunatics. That's the title of our radio program, Disinverting from the Crew of Lunatics. That's
Cláudia: great. So not only that, but we have, people think that, for instance, organic, growing food organically or raising animals organically. This, we have to go back. It's just a matter
of going back and respect nature and do not put profit and quantity above quality and
Susan: health.
And survival because if we
Cláudia: would go back to some smaller family farmers, smaller groups of farming, so they had
much less problems with
Richard: food production at those times and the food was much healthier. Yeah, for sure.
Cláudia: Everybody had what
Richard: to eat. If
Cláudia: the crew of lunatics didn't produce a war that was artificial, everybody would live in harmony.
Richard: Yeah, and speculation on food prices and all that stuff.
Yes. I still remember
Cláudia: pulling carrots out of the ground and washing them off with a garden hose. Did you? Yeah, from my parents' garden, sure. So it was not so bad. No,
Richard: it's my generation. It's like not that far. I'm not that old yet. So
Cláudia: it's easy to go back. So what are we doing?
Let me take a break, though, Cláudia, because I see you're winding up for another, which is fantastic.
So we'll take a break now. We're coming back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Back in just a moment.
Susan: True illness is the attempt to create what was never meant to exist. Norberto Cappi.
Disinverting the human being and society.
Cláudia: Since the beginning of all civilizations, they had always manifested an enormous interest and knowledge about the spiritual life and spiritual beings.
Richard: It's a world of ancient wisdom that modern science has eliminated.
The arising philosophy of positivism preferred to base science on
Cláudia: material happenings. So, only what you can see and touch and feel is real.
Richard: Now, spirituality is being put back into science.
Cláudia: Imagine what would happen if people start considering this as a real thing. Not only as a religious thing, but also a real scientific thing. Imagine what would happen.
Norberto Keppe, and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world. This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Our second segment of our program today, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network, our brand new radio network streaming through our site at heatingthroughconsciousness.com. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco talking about going back.
And you know, whenever we say this, I remember my father. Everybody remembers their father. When I was a boy, and you know, everybody at the dinner table would roll their eyes and say, "yeah, Dad, when you were a boy." But there was something I remember working, he put me to work when I was 11 years old. Picking strawberries. So we'd go out in the bus, we'd get up early in the morning.
Go on the bus and pick strawberries. And I'd work all day, and I'd make like $4. And I'd come home, and my dad would say "well, how did you do today?" And I'd say, "well, Dad, I made $4." He said, "well, that's great." And I remember thinking, $4? That's like a slave labor. But his attitude was that working for something, doing something valuable, had value in society.
He had a different sensibility than that. "What did you do with this $4?"
Well, I would save it. I would buy baseball gloves.
Cláudia: And weren't those gloves
Richard: magical? Of course. Wasn't that romantic? Romantic. Do you know I still have one of those gloves? Oh my God. So looking for things because of its quality and its importance in
Cláudia: our lives. What is important? What is qualified? What is beautiful? And if we have this magnetic relationship with those things, life gets a flavor of a movie, like a romance.
We lost the sense of romance. We lost the sense of beauty in our lives, of hope. So all this must be recovered. And it's not difficult. It will be difficult in one sense that we have to deal with all this pathology that was like accumulated. And our newest generations, they were raised inside this upside-down culture of the quantity,
Richard: of the
Cláudia: superficiality, of being like digital, electrical, even music.
It's electrical, electronic. So everything breaks down our energy, our magnetic energy, and people are becoming more and more stupid, superficial. You see, magnetic personality. What is this, Richard? What do you have in mind when I say a magnetic person?
Richard: Somebody that attracts because of their vibration. They have a vibration that attracts people, that attracts interest in what they're saying.
Cláudia: Yes. So people lost this.
And even artists are losing this. Fewer and fewer artists are magnetic. And when one magnetic person comes, everybody goes. Because, you see, this is the true nature of humanity, with feeling, with love, with romance, with mercy, charity, taking care of our fellow man. So, life, digital life is a senseless life, useless. And we are born to be useful. So, you see, Richard, we are trying to develop in our spare time to go to a place, a city inside our countryside, in the mountains of Minas Gerais, where there is a community, small community, which is a
Richard: low-income community or a socioeconomic deprived
Cláudia: community.
So we go there to bring them dignity, to bring them a notion that they can raise up their levels with their own efforts and with our help. So we are developing some programs. The name of the city must be difficult for people to pronounce. It's an Indian name, Kambukida. There is a very small community that was built in a quilombo. Quilombo was previously a place like a small village that was built with
Richard: slaves, black
Cláudia: people.
Richard: When they were liberated from slavery?
Cláudia: No, when they ran away from their
Richard: owners. Okay, escaped,
Cláudia: yeah. And they were hidden in this area. So there is this tradition of rebels, rebel slaves, but they still didn't find a way to organize their lives. Nobody cared to help them to organize a good life. They used them to pick up coffee grains or oranges in those huge farms of these huge, powerful farmers.
Richard: Another inverted idea, industrialized farms, terrible, too
Cláudia: industrialized, too big. And there are those healing waters in this place, incredible, powerful healing waters. In the past, there were many people going to this place to heal themselves because of this environment, which is very healthy. It's mountain, it's a mountain place.
Richard: Very
Cláudia: fresh air, beautiful water. We have this original Atlantic forest with original Atlantic animals like monkeys and tucanos and beautiful birds.
So there we find this natural life. We don't understand that we need to be backwatered to be disinverted. It, but we must respect nature and human beings. So technology must be developed in the right direction. And there are many, many good directions to follow in medical science, in pharmaceutical science, in biology. Let me just underscore this point,
Richard: though, Cláudia, because I think it went by very quickly.
You said that we need to develop in a way that respects nature and human beings. So it's not that we're against development at all. Sure not. But development in the right way.
Cláudia: I think this is a holistic essential integral way, beautiful and respectful. Like there are some very old ways of doing auto vaccines,
Richard: self-vaccination I guess,
Cláudia: and it healed thousands of kids
Richard: without vaccination procedures, yeah.
Cláudia: But what, why the uh medical council or uh they and the
Richard: rulers, medical society, they
Cláudia: prohibited this kind of procedures because it cost nothing, only a needle, a syringe and a needle, and any nurse could do this, and people would get much, much healthier, and bye-bye, bye-bye, pharmaceutical.
Richard: And what was this practice, this procedure?
Cláudia: Like these auto-vaccinas and like auto-hemotherapy.
Richard: Self-hemotherapy.
Cláudia: This is also a kind of auto-vaccina.
Self-vaccination. It's to boost the immune system
Richard: with your own blood, with your own secretions. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Cláudia: So the old doctors, the time of my father, they used this before they went to, they brought a patient to surgery, for instance. They used this technique. So this technique boosted so much the immune system. Nobody, nobody caught these infections, hospital infections. Actions and any other infections.
The recovery was perfect because they applied this technique. The pharmaceutical industry and the medical industry, they forbid because it doesn't bring profits for them. So, there are many, many, many ways to develop agriculture and raising animals and education
Richard: and educating
Cláudia: kids and everything.
So what we try to do in our spare time in Cambuquira is to develop those procedures.
Cláudia: So we are teaching some people lessons of arts like piano, ballad, theater, circus, and how to form their own brick factory as a co-op where the workers are the owners.
Richard: Making their own homes.
Cláudia: They own homes and sell bricks to support themselves. And we develop this social currency, which is, by the way, working wonderfully. The value of this currency is bigger than the reais in the city. People buy those trinos with reais, which is the social currency and the national
Richard: currency. They use the real to buy this social currency because the social currency has more value in the village for food
Cláudia: and clothing and these kinds of… Because there is this mercatrino.
Richard: Small markets.
Cláudia: Yeah, where people, we have donations of good clothing and food and toys. And people can only buy those things with trinos. And people who have trinos are those who contribute for society, for a useful work for society, for the community. Only community workers receive trinos. And only who have Trinos can go to this Trino market and buy things there.
Richard: That's beautiful. Come and see what we're doing here because it'll inspire you in your communities to do work that would be a big
Cláudia: benefit for the people there.
And so they can start helping their own communities. And
Richard: you don't need to be poor because everybody now needs to disinvert.
Cláudia: To disinvert. Yeah. Now, I want to say a thing before we finish.
Can I?
Richard: Of course.
Cláudia: Of course.
Richard: Because you make me be more like... Sales-oriented. Marketing. Yes.
Cláudia: No, no. I mean excited.
Richard: Oh, okay, okay.
Cláudia: Good. Okay.
Richard: Because I get excited. It's very exciting.
Cláudia: Yeah, but you know, your energy brings me more energy. Okay, good. I want to say something, Richard.
Richard: Okay, Cláudia.
Cláudia: Everybody thinks that God will have to intervene, punishing people, punishing society.
I want to bring up this inversion and to refresh the memory of many that all the troubles we had, all, no exceptions, were caused by human beings and they could be, of course, inspired by evil spirits and angels.
But all problems are caused by human beings. Even natural problems many times are caused by human beings. And if we do not develop a good way to protect ourselves from natural disasters that are brought from the beginning of this disaster in the planet Earth, We had billions of years ago or millions or I don't know how long, but we exploded. We blew up our planet.
So all these earthquakes, all these problems are coming from already something that happened a long time ago caused by human beings. So I want to remember that in all times where humanity went downhills too much to its, like in direction to the inversion, to upside down direction, suicidal, homicidal direction, God always intervened. But to save humanity, to help humanity, sending a prophet, sending a solution, making miracles, sending wise men, sending good people, he always intervened to save as many as possible.
To a point where he sent his son, knowing that he could be killed and he was killed, to bring a philosophy that made possible the continuation of the planet for more 2,000 years. I understand that if we didn't have Christianity, or the true form of Judaism, the true form of Islamism, the true form of Christianity, which are good religions, if we didn't have a good man like Confucius, like Buddha, like some other inspired individuals, if we didn't have these divine creatures that were men and women, humanity probably would have already disappeared from the face of the planet.
So God always intervenes to help, to impede the total destruction. And I understand that he's using the science, Analytical Trilogy, And Dr. Keppe, as a scientist, and his group, he's intervening through us as he is through other people and some other groups in the planet.
But definitely, he's using this group to interfere and to bring solutions and help to save humanity, to save as many as possible, to save those who are ready to be saved, who are open-hearted to be saved. And to do something to STOP the Destruction of the World. You
Richard: know, in this day of complaint, of industrial power media spotlights trained on the problems, it's perhaps difficult to believe in solutions.
Here, Kepien dialectics can help us. Destruction is not something by itself, but is instead the absence of health. By that definition, curbing our destruction lets the true healthy state emerge. That's a hopeful recipe. That's our program for this time. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are streaming on the Stop Radio Network from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
Susan: The sickest people want others to be the way they idealize them. Norberto Cappi.
Disinverting the human being and society.
Cláudia: I remember the book Glorification that Dr. Cappi wrote. I was with him many of the nights or days where he got those inspirations from God. And it was a necessity for him to write what he received.
So the book was totally written under inspiration. But it's not only a theological book. It's mostly a scientific book. Very therapeutic book. Very beautiful, by the way. And he used to wake up during the night, 2, 3 in the morning. And he said "let's go to the top of the mountain" and we were watching the sky in this dark night with no interference so you could transcend the sky and see heaven through it.
Oh my god, you could adapt the writings that he did with the music of Beethoven and this would be a trilogy of his writings and the music would be heaven.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and welcome to the Stop Radio Network. We broadcast from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil. And our programs, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness, offer the most relevant conversations around about the state of our world and what we can do to make it better.
