Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. It was part of the psychic apparatus defined in Freud's structural model of the psyche. Its role was to mediate between the desires of our uncoordinated instinctual tendencies, the id, and our critical moralizing part, called the superego. For Freud, our ego, caught between these two forces, has a heck of a time maintaining equilibrium.
It often loses, as we all know when we do something we know we shouldn't, but can't help, and then have to live with the consequences. But Keppe has redefined this battle considerably by proposing that our neurosis comes not from the struggle between our primitive instincts and our censoring personal and social superego, but from our inverted desires against our good, beautiful, and true essence, a dilemma recognized by St.
Paul when he lamented, Why do I do the things I don't want and fail to do the things I want? A question perhaps all of us have asked in different ways. Keppe's work in this area is essential for all, but lamentably not well divulged. Let's correct that today. Our inverted contra-ego today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. If you're just tuning into us for the first time, you have multiple ways to listen to us.
We're also available as individual podcasts through iTunes podcasts. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head the name, please do pass us on to your social media network. That's how we grow. In all the psychological schools of thought and practice, our subject today has been little discussed.
Where Freud saw a deaf instinct and Jung a massive shadow, Keppe sees a poorly understood desire in us to go against what is correct, even against our own lives in serious cases. From self-destructive behavior to our thirst for danger, we are largely unconscious of this anti-me or contra-ego that we carry. And this is a substantial addition to our understanding of the human psyche and an explanation for why, with all of our vaunted means of communication and sophisticated technology, we appear incapable of staying our rapid destruction of our planetary home.
Our inverted perspective causes us to see the reality of truth and goodness and beauty as harmful or sucky, like goodness is something to be seen suspiciously or worse as relative, depending on culture or opinion. Keppe expresses it this way. The first step in my perception of the origin of psychic illness was this factor of psychological inversion, by which a person tries to place everything in his inner self contrary to the way it really is.
Seeing fantasy as excellent, reality as harmful, love as bad, hate as good, patience as antiquated, intolerance as progress, and so on. That may be difficult to see at first glance. We often excuse away bad decisions or self-sabotage as one-off events, as exceptions, or as bad luck or inexperience, we seldom consider that they may reflect a deeper attitude that we carry unconsciously. Consequently, by not seeing it, we wind up victims of it again and again, with more sophisticated explanations keeping us from getting to the bottom of it.
So Keppe's take on this inverted inner me is, to my mind, the most urgent consciousness for us to come to grips with today, because herein lies the source and solutions for our massive problems on earth. And I'm not exaggerating. A deep scholastic analysis of Keppe's concept of inversion must be undertaken if we're to understand ourselves and our destructive relationship with nature and even with ourselves.
Today we'll begin to peel back the curtain on this Poorly understood human tendency to work against our own best interests. Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and our inverted contra-ego coming up next on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. It is
dishonest to think that all harmful acts are committed unconsciously. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
Richard: A key inversion in science.
Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element.
Richard: And its negative consequences.
We provoke serious imbalances in nature.
Richard: Corrected now with the Keppe Motors disinversion of physics.
And we developed a way to have mechanical power with very little electricity.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: This will make a big change, not only in energetic efficiency, but also it will bring better energy in homes because it's magnetic energy.
Richard: The Keppe Motor. New technology for a new world.
Richard: This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network with Richard Lloyd Jones. And lately, a rare treat. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and I actually have some time to sit down and do an interview. How long has it been?
Cláudia: I don't know, Richard.
Richard: It's been a long time.
Cláudia: You're a little bit busy. Yes, besides my psychoanalytical practice. Seeing
Richard: patients
and giving courses now
Cláudia: I have this beautiful work with the capimotor technology and this is a time consuming um because imagine Richard we are not only creating a new technology but we are working with a totally new mentality. Yeah and if you consider that humanity and each human being has in his inner self, like an anti-me.
This is something that I would like to enter today a little bit to talk to you. When Dr. Keppe discovered the inversion, he was giving a better and deeper explanation of what Freud called instinct of death. Because
Richard: Freud
Cláudia: already realized that the sickest the person, the more destructive he was, suicidal, homicidal, and he called this an instinct of death present in all people.
And he naively thought this could be cured by liberating sexual instincts, which he called instincts of life or eros. So this was very naive of himself, and Kepid realized that we are really upside down, or we have inside of us a totally like counter energy, a counter me, a counter ego.
Richard: Against life, against our own selves.
Cláudia: Against oneself, because by nature, by nature, energetically speaking, everything that is in reality is good, beautiful, truthful, healthy, balanced, harmonious, divine, we could name it.
But, this is mixed with darkness, evil, pathology, suffering, pain, death. And how come we as human beings have both things? So, Keppe discovered that we have like a counter-ego, which is unconscious. It's like impulses that come from our inner selves. And sometimes when we realize, we think, my God, how did I do this? Or why did I do this?
Richard: Why was I thinking?
What was I thinking?
Cláudia: And generally, Richard, all the time, we are either committing slowly suicide or we are homicides.
Richard: Worse than suicide even.
Cláudia: Yeah. And we destroy the planet. Why, Richard? Why? For so many years we have been working with STOP the Destruction of the World, and we see that this destruction, environmental problems are just growing and growing and growing, and human beings substituted the true life by money.
Richard: Replaced the true
Cláudia: life. Replaced. So money in this sense, used as it is, is one of the most expressive proofs, evidence of this anti-me, anti-ego in all peoples.
Richard: You know, now that you're mentioning that, I think people would explain this destruction and it would stop off at just this what you just said. It would stop off, well, this is because of greed.
We're destroying the planet because we're greedy. And Dr. Keppe goes much deeper than that. I think that's a very important distinction you're making now. It's not just about the desire for money and power, but that that desire for money and power, above all other things, is an inverted desire.
Cláudia: Yeah, this is the bigger expression of this inversion. We replaced life. Happiness. Health.
Cooperation. Vibration. Beauty. Goodness. Truth. Enjoying life. Really fulfilling our existence. We replaced it by material power, money, sometimes even paper. Money in paper or in numbers in a bank account. When
Richard: you say that, it's absurd, isn't it?
Cláudia: And the economic power. So it's so, so, so inverted. That's why we call psychopaths those people who accumulate so much money and they become anti-human beings.
They are not human beings anymore. They are anti-humans. So, this inversion, Richard, is very much clear and present in unconscious individuals like Adolf Hitler. He was being led by this unconscious anti-Adolf. It was
Richard: an anti-Adolf Hitler. A contra-Adolf.
Cláudia: A contra, yeah. It's against life. It's against himself and it's against humanity. So all the powerful that use economic power in this sense, and mostly the majority they use, they replace life for money.
And money, it's untied. It's death. It's nothing. You see? It's artificial. It's delirious. So that's why these people don't enjoy life. They can't enjoy life. They don't love anyone. They don't love even themselves. They are very sick. Following this, the problem of bringing more balance to the planet, to humanity, more justice, more balance, more like healthier living, it's not only a problem of the powerful.
It's mostly the problem of powerful. But each human being has inside of himself these impulses that are coming from the anti-me, the anti-ego. So they know they should do this or they should do that in order to have a better life, to live longer and have a happier life.
Richard: And this anti-ego is something that's, in Keppe's view, not natural. It's something that's been sort of created over time.
Cláudia: Yeah, it's like a psychogenetic garbage we carry in ourselves. And energetically speaking, you see this in the DNA, in the functioning of our telomeres, of our mitochondrias, of our cells. There is a breakdown of our energy.
Richard: The stop gene they even talk about.
Cláudia: It is as if the counter energy, there is a counter energy and not a commutation. So we don't commute, energetically speaking.
We don't continue with a good movement ahead. We stop and we retract and we do a counteraction. And sometimes this counteraction dominates the life of a person. For instance, self-immune diseases.
Richard: Autoimmune diseases.
Cláudia: I was attending a client with diabetes 1. The format or the expression, the physical expression of her autoimmune psychological attack is in this diabetes. She's always against herself. And she never realized this before.
Now, with this perception of inversion, she's realizing that she has to be more conscious and be very careful and pay attention to every idea that pops up into her mind. And use her consciousness and her common sense and her ethics to decide and to hold back some impulses. Sometimes this counter-ego, it uses good doctrines, like she was saying. Being a Christian, one understands that being charitable is the most important thing to be done.
But now I understand that under this pretext, I have been attacking myself and being foolish many times, times, attacking myself under this banner of being charitable. Incredible. So, it's very tricky. And our counter-me, our counter-ego, our inverted upside-down ego is very, very intelligent. The more intelligent you are, the more affectionate you are, you risk having this counter-ego, very intelligent and very powerful.
So one must perceive this. That's why normally the more capable people can become evil leaders and they can attract and use their capacities in upside down way. Okay.
Richard: Now, this is really interesting. The counter-ego, we're calling it now, the anti-ego.
Cláudia: Or inverted ego. Inverted ego,
Richard: yeah. Just to give it a name. You said at the beginning that Freud believed this was a natural impulse and that he foolishly thought that you could treat this natural impulse and
Cláudia: heal it by integrating it or something like this.
No, through sex, liberating
Richard: sexual instincts. Yes.
Cláudia: How does Keppe see it? Through conscientization. But
Richard: what is it first for Keppe?
Cláudia: That's the inversion we bring in our psychogenetics. We see things or we react upside down. That's why sick people, they attack those he loves the most. His parents, his spouses, his children, his own profession, his body, whatever good he has, he attacks.
So he destroys. And this is coming from this inversion and this upside down inverted ego which is unconscious. So the more conscious we become of this, the better. Because then we can manage this. We can gerenciar,
Richard: yeah, we can manage, deal with it,
Cláudia: administrate, we can. One must, one must repress. We must rethink everything we do, like think twice, because impulses, they can come from this counter ego or this inverted ego, yeah.
And they can
Richard: be really destructive. And without understanding that, we can think that this is what I'm just
Cláudia: following my will. But doing our analysis, Richard, the person realizes a lot and stop destroying that much. What has been difficult for me, for instance, being the president of STOP and having founded STOP in 1992, is that not only the powerful, the economic powerful are not interested in our principles and our ideals, But the people also, they see it's good.
They recognize it's good. They agree, but they don't act. They don't integrate this in their lives because of this inverted ego, which is unconscious. They follow, they obey the dictatorship of this counter or inverted ego in each one's lives.
Richard: Which is everywhere, isn't it?
Cláudia: It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Some
Richard: conversations I've been having with students have related very much to what you're talking about, Cláudia, that we have a – the last part you were talking about, about following the – almost the tyranny of this anti-ego, following the way things are and not questioning any of that.
This is the thing that people, I think, have such difficulty with because they say, well, that's the reality. That's the way it is. And it is distorted. It is. That's the way it will always be. And things go in cycles, one student was telling me today. You know, we're now in a materialistic cycle and then we'll have another renaissance and it will be this kind of movement throughout history.
People aren't seeing.
Cláudia: But we don't have any more time to do the cycles.
Richard: We are like in a dead end.
Cláudia: Our civilization proved to be inadequate, inverted.
Richard: Unworkable.
Cláudia: Unworkable. We are in a dead end. We have 7 billion people in the planet. Most of them are in complete poverty. And nature is being totally…
Richard: Distorted, disturbed.
Cláudia: Distorted, disturbed. And it's becoming almost impossible to continue living in this planet.
And everybody knows what is wrong. Everybody knows intellectually what should be done. Justice should be done. Birth control should be done. Not killing babies, but birth control should be done. Another kind of medicine, another kind of mentality, spirituality, more tolerance, less war, less trafficking, less drugs, less egotism, less competition,
more humanity. So, less pollution. We know
Cláudia: what is wrong. We know intellectually, consciously.
But what we don't know is that inside of ourselves, we have this anti-me that is leading me to die and leading me to destroy my habitat and my fellow man and civilization. So it's like having an evil me inside of us. And it expresses itself through anger, egotism, competition, bullying people, destroying, attacking the beloved ones.
Richard: Sadistic behaviors.
Cláudia: Sadistic behaviors, corrupt behaviors.
Richard: Torture.
Cláudia: Yeah, this is evil. ...of each one. So if we don't realize this, we will have no more history in front of us.
Richard: So happy to hear you say this because it's not about a superficial thing. It's not just a thing of like greed or... No, it's much more
Cláudia: serious. It's much more serious, isn't it? Even saints had this inversion in themselves. They killed themselves sooner than they had to.
Yeah.
Richard: And St. Paul said, why do I do the things I don't want to do? And why don't
Cláudia: I do the things that I really want to do? He had this idea, too.
Richard: So Dr. Keppe has scientifically explained this.
Cláudia: So what, for instance, Richard, what the religious people call grace. Grace is the energy of God bringing grace to life, bringing fun, happiness, vibration.
And when we replace this connection with life, reality, God's reality, nature, everything that is. When we replace this for these delirious values, for the illusions of money, power, prestige, this is an expression of this evil counter me. Because then life becomes empty, artificial.
Richard: Anguishing. Oh, my God.
Cláudia: It's so empty, so anguishing. So people need more and more drugs and alcohol and medicines to try to cover up this anguish, existential anguish.
Richard: This is the existential crisis, exactly the word that was in my head. Yeah. Existential crisis of humanity. Why
Cláudia: am I so unhappy and more unhappy and unhappier? And I can have material goods, but it doesn't feed my inner life, my needs. It doesn't feed it. I'm always empty. So this is coming from this inverted ego, this evil inverted ego everyone has against oneself, against our conscious ego.
Richard: Attitudes against ourselves, this contra-ego. This goes a long way towards explaining our continued destruction, even in the face of irrefutable evidence that that's exactly what we're doing. Keppe has written voluminously about how we've inverted our concepts, out of our wish to see reality as harmful to ourselves, and then coming to the conclusion that this inverted view is right.
That's our program for this time. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
Envy is the primary cause of all maladies. Norberto Cappi. Disinverting the human being and society.
I remember a client,
Cláudia: she has a near problem, the syndrome. When the person starts to get deaf.
Richard: A landmark psychological science that helps us understand physical disease.
Cláudia: But with analysis, the syndrome stopped developing.
Richard: And helped solve it without drugs or surgery.
Cláudia: The doctors told her, now you are a healthy person. Take back your normal life.
Richard: Healing Through Consciousness by Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is a profound book loaded with case studies that explain the root cause of our health problems.
Cláudia: And this morning, she woke up with a heavy heart as if she was expecting something different from the doctor.
Richard: And what we can do to really solve them, not just take away the symptoms.
Cláudia: So the most difficult aspect is for her to even suspect that she has an inner life that she's not aware of.
Richard: Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco's Healing Through Consciousness, the revolutionary scientific method that treats both mental and physical illness through dialogue alone, making clinical treatment, medicines, and hospitalization unnecessary.
