Richard Lloyd Jones: Welcome to our new series on the Thinking With Somebody Else's Head podcast. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We're calling this new series Healing Through Consciousness. An abstract title, perhaps? Well, in our Western civilization, with its overemphasis on the material solutions for disease, of pills, surgery, vaccines, writing our chemical imbalances, tweaking our diets, it's possible we've diminished the importance of the most crucial aspect in our human quest for health and longer life, our vast inner universe of feelings and perceptions, values and philosophy
of life, intuition and consciousness. This is the psychological life, meaning psyche or soul, as the Greeks considered it. Now, we're not suggesting, of course, that diet and exercise and good habits have no place, I would be foolish. What we are suggesting is that those good habits come from an inner equilibrium and sanity that spring from a healthy psyche. Exploring the pathway to that inner health is what we're attempting here in this series. So our contention is that our outer world of laws and norms and habits is a reflection of our inner beliefs and
attitudes. If we have a predominance of chemically treated, non-organic, genetically modified food, that's coming from an inverted mentality that puts corporate profits above human health, and that's a psychological problem long before it becomes an economic one. Our work in this series comes from decades of scientific discoveries and practice that are a product of the great psychoanalysts and social scientists Dr. Norberto Keppe and Dr. Claudia Bernhard Pacheco, both of whom have a peerless pedigree in psychosomatic medicine.
Kepi worked for years at the largest university hospital in Latin America, the Hospital das Clínicas in Sao Paulo, Brazil. And Pacheco, the daughter of a prominent Brazilian physician, wrote a seminal book on psychosomatic healing that gives us the title for our series, Healing Through Consciousness. Both are highly sought-after international psychoanalysts and founders of the Kepi and Pacheco Trilogical Colleges that are offering cutting-edge university programs in psychosomatic medicine, environmental management, clinical theology, arts, and education. It's a potent transdisciplinary approach,
as Claudia Bernhard Pacheco explains here in our first episode.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: This is totally a new approach, Richard. This transdisciplinary science was absolutely built by Dr. Kepi because he has in his background the theological, philosophical, and scientific, the threefold background.
Richard: And the Catholic theology, I think, is the most advanced theology
Cláudia: that we have. All the Catholics, Rome, and even the Orthodox Catholics, they are
Richard: very much deep in what they... Sure, and even the original Protestants come from the Catholic Church too.
Cláudia: Yeah, the Christians, they are all very deep in their knowledge. Yeah,
Richard: so sitting across the table from me is Claudia Bernhard Pacheco, who joined Kepi Society early on, 1974, working first as Kepi's assistant, but soon attending clients herself in Kepi's innovative psychotherapeutic treatment. Kepi, in the pursuit of understanding the nature of human problems, started with the theological and realized that it was too limited for him, that he needed a more scientific approach, not just theological. So he entered into the area of psychotherapy to try to treat clients individually
and in group sessions in scientific ways, not just their theological questions, but their economic questions, relationship problems, health problems.
Cláudia: Psychosomatic problems, mental
Richard: illnesses Especially a big focus of Dr. Kepi's work So he created his own interdisciplinary science He called Analytical Trilogy Which he named for the union of science with philosophy and theology So this is now not something that's only theological, only philosophical, only scientific But all three of those aspects together Which gives it a lot of capacity to understand the human problems and human issues
Cláudia: This shift started in 1977 when he realized...
Richard: You were there at the beginnings of this, Claudia.
Cláudia: Yes, I have been participating into this beautiful journey. In 1977, he was researching, always digging, like an archaeologist of the mind. And he discovered that it was like an inspiration that the human being didn't suffer from an unconscious, as Freud put it, as an instinctive, innate, unconscious life. But what was a cause of human's pathology was what Dr. Kepi called inversion.
Human beings are upside down, perceiving, reacting, living upside down. So after this intuition, he told me, Claudia, now I must study even more and start all over from the beginning. all the understanding of human soul must be reviewed, reanalyzed, and corrected under this perspective. And that's how he started in 77. He was able, in the end of 79, to complete a new body of psychoanalysis theory, his own integral psychoanalysis that then he called analytical trilogy, because it encompassed also the fields of philosophy, metaphysics, and theology.
Richard: So this idea of inversion, we could do a whole course just on that concept alone, but the idea that we see the world upside down is so clear. This is a crazy idea.
Cláudia: The psychologies and the psychology schools, the psychological orientations, psychoanalysis, even mostly psychiatry, they do not consider spirit pathology.
Richard: So what led you and Dr. Kepi to that area? How did you, I mean, if the whole training of psychoanalysis is that the individual and problems with the parents, problems with trauma from childhood, biological problems, what led you guys to go deeper into that?
Cláudia: Experimental practice of psychoanalysis. We were lucky, Richard, because we have always had hundreds of clients to attend in our society. people who came to us suffering with mental illnesses, psychosis, neurosis, psychosomatic illnesses. Because since the beginning of Dr. Kepi's work, he was very much able to heal people from psychosomatic diseases. He worked in the hospital of the University of Sao Paulo for many years. And there he was a major psychotherapist and psychosomatic researcher. So what heals is the
truth. So don't stick to theories when you see a client, but go to the truth, to the deeper truth, because only truth heals the patient. And doing so, he was able to heal more people and faster.
Richard: This transdisciplinary approach Dr. Pacheco is talking about here is noteworthy. There could be no separation between what we put in our bodies and the thoughts and feelings we nurture in our inner lives. Likewise, a consideration of our spiritual beliefs and
questions must rightly occupy any healing treatment modality. After all, knowing what we should do is not enough if we don't do it. And why we don't do what we should is deep inside the psychological inner life. Treating that part, I would maintain, is important in understanding why diets don't work and materialistic treatments often fall short in bringing health. We'll delve more deeply into this as we go along, of course, and work to lay out the foundations for healthier
lives by a more complete consideration of how and why we heal. So let's continue our inner journey to health coming up in episode two.
