Richard Lloyd Jones: Welcome to Episode 15 of the Modern Relevance of God podcast series here on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We talked about the importance of Jesus to our lives in the last episode, and I hope in a rational way. I've been impressed in my personal journey of discovery with the rational arguments for the existence of God throughout history by Augustine and Anselm, and more recently, as I mentioned back in episode 11 by the logical argument for Jesus elaborated by Oxford C.S.
Lewis. Well, we don't get into any of those arguments for the existence of God in this episode, but they do all make provocative reading. But for me, devout and believe-it-when-I-see-it modern materialist, it wasn't until Brazil and the surprising revelations of my latent hidden spirituality that unveiled during the psychoanalysis and study with Cláudia Pacheco and Norberto Keppe that I began to understand in an elementary way the essential relevance of theology in my life.
Keppe writes about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and even demons in a lucid, practical, scientific way that's very tangible, especially when accompanied by studying his profound work and exploring reactions to it through the interior exploration provided by personal psychoanalysis. And it's been my great privilege to have had the opportunity to do that over the past 20 years with, first, Dr.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, and then, lately, Dr. Norberto Keppe. Keppe's books, Glorification and the Universe of the Spirits, were turning points for me. Glorification even being marked for publication in the U.S. Before being ultimately turned down by the editorial board of a large and prestigious publishing company. Keppe wrote in Glorification that any discussion about what is obvious is a waste of time. Keppe maintains that we reject the obviousness of a creator because of our extreme envy, which causes us to invert our perception, rejecting, ignoring, or distorting reality, and denying the true spiritual and material riches that God has created.
Religion, after all, in the true sense of the word, which means to bind, to reconnect, religion is within us. And that inner journey can lead to some surprising revelations. Let me tell you that. Our episode today was another eye-opener for me back when Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and I talked about it in a far-reaching discussion for this series, The Importance to Modern Man of the Holy Mother, in today's episode.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: We influence all the lower vibrational levels. We cannot influence the higher vibrational levels of beings. We cannot influence good and bad angels. We cannot influence God. But we can and we do influence beings that are in a lower level of vibration, in a lower scale. Or the same level, right? Or the
Richard: same.
Cláudia: So our fall influenced animals, plants, minerals. We can influence in a negative way because if you have a bunch of people, a society, a whole big group of people having too much hate, too much anger, even fear, being unbalanced, psychologically unbalanced.
Unbalanced, not ethical, dishonest. So if you have many people like this disturbed emotionally, the tendency is to disturb also all the elements of the planet. Now this is
Richard: so interesting because we know we can do this physically. If you chop down all the trees, you're going to create incredible distortions in the weather patterns, in the environmental conditions. But I never thought about this in
Cláudia: terms of resonance
Richard: or vibration.
Vibration. Wow. Vibrational things. Energetics. That's fascinating. This
Cláudia: is this is this is a way for us to understand even the messages that those children and adolescents get from the holy mother. Who was also
Richard: important in this story. Because she is I mean she's the one who accepted to give birth to the son of god. I mean this is extraordinary thing. And where I come from, a
Cláudia: mostly Protestant country, we don't give much value to the Holy Mother, but she's an incredible...
Well, she was the woman who was helped by God to help humanity to recover. So, she did the opposite of Eve. So, she was like very open, very gentle, receptive to God's orientations, and she was not a woman that was envious as the others, and she was faithful, and she was obedient. Now, obedient is obedient to what? Obedient to what is good, beautiful, and truthful.
She didn't want to have any omission, any denial in her beauty, in her truthful actions. She could have had the same attitude as Eve during her life, but she didn't want to. She was smarter. And she was free to deny if she wanted. She was free to say no, as Eve did. But she didn't want to. So she said, "okay, I want to play a role in this plan of salvation." And was
Richard: it an immaculate conception, and what is that?
Immaculate
Cláudia: conception means that if God would not have interfered in her DNA, she would have been born with the original sin, which means that she would have been born with envy and hatred and inversion since the beginning.
Richard: A distorted DNA.
Cláudia: Psychophysical DNA.
Richard: This is our legacy from the fall, is that our
Cláudia: DNA began to be corrupted and diminished because of our lower vibration. Not only physical DNA, but psychophysical.
Richard: Psychophysical DNA. So God
Cláudia: would have had to interfere to
Richard: correct her genetics
Cláudia: so she could… Receive inside of her body a creature that would be so energetic. Yeah, wow. And she would not have suffered the shock of having in her womb a creature that would have the energy of God.
Totally perfect, highly vibrational being. So she could never, ever have a DNA like the other women in order to be able to resonate with a perfect DNA. She had to resonate, immensely resonate with this baby inside of herself in a perfect way. Human perfect. Right. She's not a god. So God did that. Did. Did. If he would not have
Richard: done, Mary would not have been capable to receive this creature inside of her.
Otherwise, she would not have been capable to have Jesus. And it's also interesting when you
Cláudia: made the comparison between her and Eve, because the serpent went to Eve in the garden. Yeah.
Richard: And so, in a sense, there had to be a woman who would provide the alternative, right, in order for us to have a chance to, it's very interesting, a woman and, of course, a man in Jesus.
It's both sides. Yeah,
Cláudia: it should have been a man and a woman, not necessarily a couple, but a man and a woman. And those were the man and the woman who didn't follow the same attitude as Adam and Eve and the other beings as we are. And we can follow Adam and Eve's inspiration because we have this in our genetics, like more or less dormant.
But also we have the genes that were perfect. We still have some perfect genes that can be even improved through the RNA, through the cultural, environmental, psychological, and spiritual aspects that can enhance the vibration of our DNA and make it better.
Richard: I think it's very interesting to think a little bit more about the idea that Dr. Pacheco is bringing here of following examples. That concept is everywhere in humanity, actually, but at a material level. We need to learn from the greats in business, sports, music, and the arts. Someone listening to Lennon can hear the echoes of Elvis and Orbison. Managers try to follow the examples of successful leaders.
Salespeople read success literature constantly to stay motivated and effective. But we seldom think of doing that, I think, in the area of morality. We don't choose, usually, to live lives in resonance with the greatest of examples, like Jesus and his mother. But we should, because all of the guides on how to be ethical in business, or international relations, or healthy living, are based on what they modeled for us.
This, I would say, is a spiritual need for humanity, which we'll look at more in episode 16.
