Richard Lloyd Jones: Questions. We ask a lot of them in our lifetimes. From why is the sky blue to I wonder if Mary Jane likes me to how am I going to pay the mortgage this month. We dream away our days and lie awake at night with millions of questions on our minds. But in our increasingly materialistic world we don't usually even broach the essential ones.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and today I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head resonating with God. The essential stuff of life. What is that anyway? We can look around us and be confused. Right? It's all so mundane. Jeans ads that take up the entire side of a high-rise building. Companies throwing credit cards at us. Newspapers full of stories we've difficulties putting into context. We're overwhelmed with the sheer pressure of living in our highly materialistic and competitive societies.
So we don't ask very often. We're not encouraged to ask the essential questions. And then suddenly there's a crisis in the family or the community with our health or our livelihood that we're facing and it all comes flooding in. Who are we? Why are we here? What is it all about, Elfie? And those are sobering questions in those wee small hours of the morning.
Many years ago I was walking through Gastown in Vancouver, in those days a lot rougher than today. It was close to Christmas and a street person, a woman, was begging not for money but for hugs. It was a strong reminder to a young student that humanity has missed the boat completely. We're so far from the essential elements of life and society that we're not even considering them in the main anymore.
We just default to surviving, getting by from one day to the next, and blotting out the uncomfortableness of the nagging unhappiness we feel with booze or pills or sex or TV or the line score of the Mets versus the Phillies. This strikes deeply to the core of Norberto Keppe's work, which he has stated is to lead human beings back to the goodness for which we were created but have rejected out of our strong psychosocial pathology.
This school of study is well developed here in Brazil, and in fact, we are training professionals, psychosociotherapists to treat these inverted conditions in their schools, churches, community organizations, etc. Our 19th International Congress on Analytical Trilogy being held here July 4th to 6th, 2008 will address Keppe's science of psychosociopathology directly and provide an excellent base for you if you'd like to learn to work with this essential level of human problems.
Just write me at rich at richjonesvoice.com if you'd like more information. Today, Dr. Cláudia Pacheco, the vice president of Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy, joins me to talk about God and man and healing ourselves. Cláudia, Dr. Keppe said in one of his books that we were born for magnificence and total happiness. Boy, that's a far cry from where we are today.
Do you have more evidence from your research and study to support Keppe's idea?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: We see now in science, Richard, through experimentation, that these theological concepts or metaphysical concepts, they are correct. And this is so beautiful because we see that we cannot have health if we are not ethical and beautiful, if we do not accept our essence which Keppe describes as beautiful, truthful and good and for glory and for essential.
Because understanding better or disinverting physics as Keppe did, using Tesla's discoveries as the basis and some of the other physicists that he quotes in his book The New Physics, and to understand better human mind and human soul, we need to understand the new physics. The true physics is an incredible science. To understand psychology it's so amazing to see that physics is a mirror of psychology.
How
Richard: do you mean that? Because physics is a big field, psychology a big field, how is physics related to psychology in the sense you're talking now?
Cláudia: Because we speak all about energy, Jones, and energy is in itself good, beautiful and truthful and powerful and glorious and very powerful. And lack of energy, distortion of energy, disturbs, causes pain, destruction, disease, all kinds of energy.
So if I have a negative energy in my psychological field, I will have a depressive thoughts, angry thoughts, relativistic thoughts or corrupt thoughts. And if I have this manifestation in my body, I will have unbalance in my hormonal system. My psychoneurohormonal system will be disturbed. I'll lack energy in some areas of my body. My organs will deteriorate, will corrupt. And if we see this in the physical aspect of the energies, electromagnetic waves, and even in the mineral field of plants and all this material field, you see the same.
Everything, every element has its own vibration. And to be an element, you need some amount of vibrations or some kind of vibrations. Yes,
Richard: and when you're talking about this energy, You're talking about, I know, let's say it for our listeners, you're talking about the energy of essential nature, the essential being actually of God you're talking about.
Cláudia: Yes, I'm speaking not through a penteistic point of view, which some people have, that we are a part of God, like as if we were little gods, and this is pure theomania.
Now, we could say that we are part of God in the sense that if you are a painter, and if you do a work of art, and if you paint a work of art, you are not the same. You don't have the same substance as that painting, but it came from you. So it somehow it belongs to you. The same thing we are with god, we are his creations, we we are, we should be his works of art, his best work of arts.
But denying this we fell apart. And
Richard: you're talking now about something that i think is important, which is the that there is a like man has a design and a finality. There is a purpose for a human life, not just for us to live and do what we want, but within this greater picture of the universe, if you want to call it that.
Cláudia: And we are all speaking about vibrations, Jones. If we are in a higher vibration, we are happy, we are enthusiastic, we are in ecstasy, we can be in glory. The biggest or the highest vibration of all is God's vibration. And we can resonate with God if we want so. We could. We can. We still can. If we try to see how does God vibrate?
How is his vibration? How is his glory? How is his goodness? How is his infinite beauty? And try to accept that and be interested in that and elevate yourself in his glory. So it's not glorifying God in an anthropomorphic way of thinking about adoring God, but it's like being in his glory, vibrating with the beauty of universe, the beauty that exists, because everything that exists is made out of this energy.
So the more you vibrate and resonate in a higher level, the happier you feel.
Richard: Yeah, you said that being unethical makes us sick, that being depressed makes us sick, you know, having depressed thoughts.
Cláudia: And being depressive and being negative and angry is unethical. And this is something very unethical. To wake up in the morning in a bad mood and step on other people's feet and say bad words and attack is very unethical.
Not to help others when they need help, to be egocentric is unethical.
Richard: Because?
Cláudia: Because we are made out of this energy, which is a good, beautiful, truthful energy. And if we behave like this, we distort the functioning of our bodies. Our cells do not function in the same way when we are angry. Our hormones don't function in the same way, natural, healthy way.
And this is beautiful, because if we want to be healthy, we must have harmony in our actions. So our psychoneuroimmune system and hormonal system, we work... Accordingly to our thoughts, we work accordingly to our desires, our intentions, and most of all, our actions. So if we behave in a beautiful way, my health will be beautiful, my life will be beautiful. And this is energy.
This is resonance. This is vibration. I cannot be in a bad mood and be happy because happiness is a higher vibration. I cannot reach it. We choose the kind of vibration we want to be. We cannot blame God. As religious people say, God will send you to hell. God will put you in the purgatory.
Richard: You'll be castigated for this.
Cláudia: No, this is us.
We choose the level of vibration we want to live.
Richard: Yes, I was thinking that if we're, as Dr. Kempi said, born to have glory, then we have two things to look at. First is, what is this glory, which you've described? The second is, why do we deny
Cláudia: it, which is the psychosocial aspect.
Richard: Yeah,
Cláudia: and here comes a lot of psychosocial pathology. And if you want to vibrate with God, it's so difficult in our society.
See now, Christmastime. People give excuses to say, I don't care about Christmas because it became a commercial feast. Feast. I don't care about Christmas because Christmas is a religious institution. Or
Richard: it's hypocritical. They only do
Cláudia: this this time. Yeah. But what does it mean Christmas? Christmas is a time to remember that we have a chance to be better beings. We have a chance to be loving We have a chance to revive, to be born again, to resurrect from this kind of low level of life that we have been living in humanity with anger, war, violence, terrorism, starvation, sicknesses, pain, depression.
Unjust laws. Unjust laws.
Richard: So many things.
Cláudia: So many hellish things that we create to ourselves. So Jesus in his message, what he taught is his example. I defeated death, so I am the one who defeated illness, suffering, and death. And you can do the same. You have hope. I'm bringing hope to you that if you do the same as I did and I do, you can have a similar life as I do have, you can defeat death yourselves.
Richard: Cláudia, let me just address this now that you're talking about, which I think is very beautiful and so important for us to hear. I had a comment on our podcast recently, a woman saying that mentioning God in terms other than a generic cosmic oneness is an instant turn off in today's intellectual and philosophical climate. And you had some very interesting comments to me when I was talking to you about this, about the necessity to address the human pathological sociological situation at the root of the problem.
Cláudia: And you know Jones, this is more even a socio pathological reaction because society chased away God. And the concept of this supreme, infinite good being that we could identify with if we would have a sharper idea about him. Because what religious people generally teach us has very little to do with what Jesus taught and told us. But, you know, this sociopathology of rejecting God is so crazy.
And it's the very source of sickness, mental sickness. The previous German psychiatrists, or the first ones, they spoke a lot about megalomania, arrogance in the source of mental illnesses. And those were beautiful studies. Even Freud spoke about narcissistic thoughts. And narcissistic attitudes in the root of psychosis. Not only psychosis, but neurosis too. And this narcissistic attitude and megalomaniac attitude Keppe understood even deeper, seeing that the wish of mentally sick people and even so-called normal people would be to be godlike.
A mania of being godlike. And thinking that we can do life according to our wishes, we are all small little gods and small little worlds and small little houses and small little this and that and lives. So we think small, we do small, we feel small as our own images. We are like closed circuits, Jones. We closed to receiving energy, essential energy from the universe because of this theomania.
We think the truth is what i think. If what you say is in accordance to what i think it's okay, if i do not agree it's not okay, so i just discharge what you said or i attack you. So So, Keppe went even further, analyzing some psychotic people, that generally psychotic people have a very big difficulty in accepting the concept and dealing and relating to the concept of God as a person, as a being.
And it's very present in those sick people. Contrarily, the healthier people, physically and mentally, they are much more spiritual, and they don't have difficulties to deal with this concept of God as being a creator, as being a heavenly father, as being the source. Not an anthropomorphic idea of God, but a more realistic one. And so, Jones, when we see that the very root of the major problems of human beings, of humanity, of churches many times, of religious people many times, is in relation to God.
So theomania is the very root of our inner problems and social problems. So you can do like a halfway analysis, a halfway therapy, if you go up to this concept of energies, etc. But If you want to go even further, you go to God himself, and then you can understand what universal envy is about, what envy of God is about. And all the envy that comes after this, then you can understand, you can grasp the concept.
What is universal envy? What is inversion? What is envy of God? So if I envy the creator of myself who made myself as I am, and I have nothing to do with my creation, so a
Richard: higher intelligence
Cláudia: made out of me what I am, and he meant something. But he is also a loving creature, so he is there, he is here, to expect him for this personal, beautiful, loving relationship with myself.
So
Richard: for us to be healthy individually, in our relationships, in our work, in our society, in schools, in education, in every area of life, we have to resonate more with this energy from
Cláudia: God. And this being, he's a being. So if I do not relate to God in a good way, in accepting and grateful and loving way, I will not be able to relate to any other person.
This can be my mother, my father, my husband, my children, who else? Whatever person I cannot relate to. Because my very root, my very beginning with my creator is not a well-resolved relationship. This
Richard: is a beautiful part of Keppe's work because he's completed the circle. Freud, being an atheist, he could stay only at the sexual...
Cláudia: Yes, and Melanie Klein with a mother.
But he went further because the clients brought material to do this. The clients themselves presented a huge problem with God as a being. And they are clear when they say this. But when we enter this subject with the so-called normal as we are, but we are very neurotic too. But when we enter the subject, if we go deep, Jones, you go there and you see. And you can understand the huge envy we have of God because He is the total powerful.
He is the ruler. He is the creator. He made me. Me as I am. So, I am not grateful. I am angry at him. I am rejectful because of my envy. But this can be turned. This energy of rejection can, if understood that this is becoming out of our envy, this can turn to the energy of loving and we can start resonating with God and we will be part of his glory and his life.
So this is wonderful. And this has nothing to do with religious institutions at all. And
Richard: when we do that, then the society automatically returns to the way it should be in the first place. Yes. Because
Cláudia: that's the way it should be, right? And we would have the chance to return to be healthy, to have our bodies working accordingly to what was supposed to be working.
And our planet would go back to normal. And we would be in paradise. Not because of like a miracle. This would be natural. This would be energetic. This would be logical. This would be psychological, physiological.
Richard: I think it's very important to say that we can't get to the place of really addressing the fundamental problems that exist if we don't begin to open the door to this question that you're bringing today.
I know
Cláudia: there's a lot of resistance to this in the academic field. I know too. And, you know,
Richard: I'm from North
Cláudia: America, so... But, Jones, tell me something. What do academics do for the good or the well-being of people? Aren't they more contributing to the worsening of the quality of life? Since academics took more power and the so-called scientists took more power, what do you see in society happening now?
Transgenic stuff. All the multinationals companies do, using the so-called scientific discoveries, they are poisoning the planet, they are killing millions and billions of people, they are polluting waters, they are imbalancing society, so they are doing a mess. So what is this? The so-called godly academic people. They are creating a mess for the people to live.
Richard: We enter more in the world of treating health with drugs and technology, We enter more into creating more and more weapons to kill people, more sophisticated.
Cláudia: And more and more iatrogenic diseases, and more and more inhuman way of treating people. Less and less happiness, more and more depression, more and more suicide.
Richard: So a really intelligent person, a person who really has intelligence, will enter this question a little bit, will open to
Cláudia: try to
Richard: understand. Yeah, give a chance to themselves. To understand.
Cláudia: Give them a chance.
Richard: Maybe this reintroduction of God as a consideration in the affairs of humanity is the true last frontier, huh?
One thing to be sure of, no school of thought or religion considers the totality of the issues surrounding this question as deeply as Keppe. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Talk to you next week.
