Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. When analyzing the crises in society, it's customary to lay blame on a wide array of doorsteps. There's corporate malfeasance and political incompetence and general apathy all round, to name a few. And back of them all is the corrupting influence of money and greed. And that's about as far as we normally get.
A few of the more strident truth-seekers draw a bigger circle and follow the trail to the secret organizations, organizations, pulling the levers and flipping the switches from high-level strategy sessions behind the scenes. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone point the finger at the dominance of mathematics as the crucial flaw in our philosophical underpinnings. Well, it's exactly what Norberto Keppe does in his magnificent work.
Reading Keppe's book Sociopathology will be a slap in the face to calculus geeks and binary nerds of any nationality, and a breath of fresh air to any of us who need our cell phone calculators to divide up the lunch bill. This is a complex analysis Keppe embarks on, and we'll launch off on the initial forays into the territory today, vanquishing mathematical technology and restoring society's soul today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Our programs are part of the Stop Radio Network, named for our partner NGO, the STOP the Destruction of the World Association, and we're available for your listening pleasure in a number of ways.
We're also streaming through iTunes. We're in the News Talk category of radio stations there.
Just Scroll down until you find us listed as Stop Radio Network. We're also part of Sharon Iezi's new WQ4D internet radio station. They look like they're doing some good things at WQ4DRadio.com. And all of our shows are downloadable one by one through iTunes podcasts, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head the podcast name, or through my blog at somebodyelseshead.wordpress.com. Well, it's a lot of websites I just threw at you there.
But that's the nature of this Internet thing, isn't it? I heard an interview with the great guitarist Rye Cooter a couple of months back, and the interviewer asked him about his audience these days, and Rye said, I have no idea. I don't know who they are. I don't know who's listening to me. It's like that. In the virtual world. You put content out there, and it just slips into this digital slipstream and circulates God knows where.
And this is why it's always so gratifying to hear from you who are listening.
You will see it just on the right-hand corner of the homepage there. You can leave a voicemail message for us. Love to hear from you.
Take advantage of all that to let us know what you think. Be a voice that's heard from the virtual vacuum. That is your challenge today. Well, like most people oriented to the artistic side of life, I felt pretty lost at times in math class. I did okay, I think, with the coffee swizzle sticks part in about grade three, I think, and more or less got the hang of long and short division.
But trigonometry and geometry left me a little shell-shocked. And when I incomprehensibly signed up for first-year calculus in my freshman year at the University of Victoria, I found myself in a sea of Chinese and Indian classmates who actually seemed to understand what was going on. That was in the days of slide rules, my friend, and so the trauma was real. Well, later in life, I became interested in economics, but quickly remembered that I was mathematically challenged and so oriented any studies in economics to social critique.
Hazel Henderson was an early inspiration. And I was again reminded of the mind-numbing complexity of sophisticated math formulas when an English student of mine, fresh from a prestigious MBA program, launched into an exuberant explanation of derivatives and credit default swaps and other such exotic financial instruments. Really did feel at that point that the English class had morphed into Greek, but that's another story.
The look on my face, I think, must have looked remarkably similar to Michael Moore's face when someone was trying to explain derivatives to him during his documentary Capitalism a love story. Now, this, of course, is not to put anyone who has a facility for that stuff down, but isn't this world of three-page-long formulas to explain a trading deal for soybean futures a little over the top?
We've got computers today trading in milliseconds on minute fluctuations in currency exchange rates, that massive betting on fractional dips or surges in company stocks, highly sophisticated hedges, calls, and puts, and you have to reflect, what is the value of most of this? I'm assuming some of it plays a part to help a company lock in a currency rate for an international business deal that may not complete for several weeks or months.
But I'm betting the large part of this is just a casino to make money with money. And that, my friends, is crazy making. In the movie Confessions of a Shopaholic, we see Rebecca Bloom facing a $900 credit card bill, fighting with herself to stop from buying a new $120 scarf. She loses the battle, but the scene is fascinating. She knows she shouldn't spend the money.
You just got a $900 credit card bill, she says to herself. You don't need a new scarf. That's reason in control, more or less, and then her will and desire pick up the argument shown in the movie as the clothing mannequin speaking the words it'll make your eyes look bigger you can wear it with everything. Comes that logic until Rebecca falls into the it will be an investment argument that actually seals the argument in favor of buying.
And it's that moment that's so interesting. Because what started as clear rationality, you don't need a scarf, it's ridiculous to buy it on top of a $900 credit card bill, is overridden by the will's I want emotion. And this irrational state becomes rational in her mind. It will be an investment. Making the irrational rational is a sign of psychosis, and it feels to me at times that our highly abstract world of complex financial instruments has fallen into that camp.
So this is what I want to explore a little bit today with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, along with a lot of other topics we'll cover in our show today. Vanquishing mathematical technology and restoring society's soul when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: This is Richard Lloyd Jones. It's a globalized world today. Publish something on virtually any social network and it could go viral in minutes. This makes it very exciting for our stop radio network, of course, because now we're not limited to 50,000 watts in terrestrial radio coverage.
Our programs are heard in more than 100 countries. If you're looking to reach customers, suppliers, even new employees more effectively, you need that global presence, too. That means globalization services like internationalization, localization, interpretation, translation, cultural consulting, and multilingual development. All of that is what we do at Millennium Translations. We're a worldwide distributor of translation and localization services, and we work in a huge variety of languages.
We're also part of the Millennium Group of Trilogical Enterprises. So check us out on the web, etranslate.com.br. Millennium Translations, we help you operate more effectively around the world.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. And we're also on another radio network now, Cláudia.
A woman wrote to me recently saying that after, actually, I responded to her. She said they have a new radio network open for podcasts and radio programs. So I said, hey, we've got this great program. She said, fantastic. So they run two episodes every Saturday night on WQ4D. It's a kind of a consciousness station. They want to raise consciousness. So it's it's it's very nice to see that we're getting out there.
And, you know, as you and I talk, we've been doing this program. You and I have been doing this for how long, Richard? It's some time now, probably three years now. And you've come on the show for many years. I've been doing the program for a long time. Eleven
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: years. Yeah,
Richard: it's like a long time. And I see all around, we're close to the anniversary of Occupy Wall Street now, I think, aren't we?
We're around that time. And we just passed the 10th anniversary of 9-11, so it's maybe apropos to talk about this now. That we we're hearing about um people talking all the time what they want to do that we need a new world that we want to take over the banks we want to take over the political. They're in the middle of an election campaign in the United States which is extremely divisive.
Our prime minister in canada just received some sort of human rights award for shutting down the canadian consulate in Tehran and Iran. So there's lots of things happening at both levels. There's lots of sort of permutations in the political world. The powerful are making a big display, as we talked about with the Olympics and these kinds of things. At the same time, there is this movement to bring change.
But I don't know what change can really come if people don't understand a little bit more about Dr. Keppe's psychosociopathology. I was talking about this on Saturday in an introductory class I was doing for our new course, our postgraduate course in psychosociotherapy, saying, look, nobody can analyze the world properly without a science. You have to have a basis from which to
Cláudia: analyze things.
A philosophy and a science. Yeah. So
Richard: without that, really, it's just opinion. I think this will work. I don't like that. Let's try this, but nobody can really definitively decide what it is that needs to be done without this coherent philosophy, science, even theology combined together. Can we talk about what Keppe's science brings in this area that can give us some things to hold on to if we're going to develop a new
Cláudia: society?
I think that we have two levels here, at least two. If not, well, we have more levels, but let's approach two levels. One level is the sociopathological level. Keppe understood and explains the pathology of power in a way that was never approached before. He has a tremendous philosophical background, very good one, and also scientific one. So in terms of analyzing the pathology of power, the books of Keppe are really, really prime books.
Which books
Richard: could we recommend?
Cláudia: Liberation of the People, Pathology of Power. This would be the book to be read and understood. The book. And then we have some other more in-depth philosophical approaches about sociopathology, like the pathology of the structure, the structural, philosophical tendencies and scientific tendencies. And in this area, we have two books that are very good. One is Sociopathology. The subtitle is The Society of the Third Millennium or something.
And then we
Richard: have... Basis for a New Society.
Cláudia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
Richard: right. We have this book in English, but it has not been published yet. But we
Cláudia: can have it in PDF. Yeah,
Richard: if people are interested.
Cláudia: Yeah, we can have it or we can even print it upon request.
Richard: Yeah, it would be an excellent book to have for people. So it's available.
And Liberation of the People is available in English. It's
Cláudia: all over the website. We have an actual site called liberationofthepeople.org where you can order that book directly. And all the studies that were done after this book was launched in 86, all over United States and England, that was the time in Brazil. That was the time when Keppe launched his studies about the psychopathology of power.
And after that, you may have seen many, many, many books and works coming on the same, like following the track that Dr. Keppe
Richard: brought. Sort of following the track. Yeah. So
Cláudia: it was a very important contribution he made in this area. So we have sociopathology approaching the problem of having mathematics as the basis of civilization, as they want to put it now.
And technology and everything like based on mathematics, which is too much a prioristic or even delirious in some way and not arts and aesthetics. So people left behind statics and arts, and he understands that statics is the basis, the true arts, and beauty are
Richard: much more important to build a civilization than mathematics. You know, Dr., this is a complex idea to talk about with people, this idea of mathematics and technology as opposed to
Cláudia: arts.
This is very, it's highly, highly philosophical and scientific approach. But many people
Richard: may understand the book. Yes, it's comprehensible. But I have an example that kind of illustrates it, Cláudia, because, you know, I worked for a lot in the recording business. And when I started in recording and working in radio and television stations, we were using analog recording. And I talked to students about the difference between analog and digital as an example, because everything's gone to this digital mathematical formula, which is a series of zeros and ones.
And if you look at a
Cláudia: digital waveform, it's a series of dots. And what's in between the dots is nothing. So what you're hearing is sound on, sound off. So you're literally hearing like a do-do-do-do-do-do-do in your head when you listen to digital recording. It's literally like a woodpecker. Destroying neurons.
Richard: It's like a woodpecker in your neurons.
Cláudia: Yeah.
Richard: But an analog recording, this more natural, aesthetic style, is a magnetic...
Magnetic. This is the answer. Totally.
Cláudia: It's a magnetic form of recording that captures the full spectrum of the sound. Which
Richard: is
Cláudia: aesthetics, harmony, beauty. So, you see, form, beauty, aesthetics is much more important, even in physics, engineering, and arithmetical things, geometrical things, or forms. Architecture, for example. Architecture.
Richard: So form, magnetism, beauty, harmony.
These are important things to base, to civilization, science, everything.
Cláudia: And so they left behind all this magnetic approach of the natural and supernatural, or we could say a transcendental world. Even the golden number, it's a form. It's a form. It's beauty, pure
Richard: beauty. A perfect proportion.
Cláudia: So this approach of mathematics and numbers had taken away the soul of civilization. The soul of society, the magnetism of society, which is health. Our psychosomatic department of our society has been researching more and more on magnetism and its effects on our health.
And this is something that you have one day to bring here, Here, me and one of the engineers and the doctors that are doing this research, but magnetism is absolutely essential. And what is magnetism? It's feeling, intuition, beauty,
Richard: truth. Charisma.
Cláudia: Charisma. Everything is magnetic. Even Keppe motors are magnetic motors. And that's why they are the most efficient and economic motors ever built, created in the planet, so far as we know.
Like, going back to history, everybody's waiting, looking for a motor that would even put together the divine essence and
Richard: energy
Cláudia: to this
Richard: natural level of society. We can see everywhere the loss of this intuition. I mean, even if you're using a word processor, you know, it has a spell check on there. You don't need to know how to spell the word. The thing corrects it for you automatically.
So this digital world is taking away.
Cláudia: Even the intelligence.
Richard: The intelligence, the sort of the multidimensional aspect of the human being. So there's this sociopathological
Cláudia: part. And then there is another book. I'm not sure whether it is translated to English, but it's in French and in Portuguese, which is liberation through knowledge, the age of reason. I don't think this is available in English yet.
So this is beautiful because it analyzes all this Illuminism, the philosophy of Illuminism and its importance to society and how the Illuminati are not following the true Illuminism because the true Illuminism or the enlightening philosophy. It's very much based on transcendental concepts and in divine concepts. Give us
Richard: sort of a thumbnail
Cláudia: sketch of that book. He talks in that book about the fact that we've not reached an age of reason.
No, yes, because people are following wrong philosophies, like the philosophy of the will, the voluntarism, which is very, very English and was brought to the world after the English brought it, giving the importance to the will. And having an inverted will, as we have, and not an unconscious, as Freud put it. We have an inverted, upside-down will. So what we want, generally, is not the best.
Richard: It's like a desire, not a natural
Cláudia: expression. It's a decay in our will. There is a decay in our will, really. So we have to be conscious of this. And giving all the freedom for the will gave the power for the people to act in freedom, to do whatever they want. So good and evil, it's the same. So we brought this area, the last program, the last show, and I told we should speak about freedom, a little bit at least.
So Keppe understands freedom in a different way, as Kant and other philosophers put it. Keppe understands freedom as the possibility of choosing what is good, beautiful, and truthful, which is reality. Now, denying, saying no, being free as Kant put, to say no to what is good, beautiful, and truthful, this is not the true freedom. This is like becoming slaves or becoming deformed, sick, because there is not anything beyond reality.
And everything that is in the cosmos is by itself truthful, beautiful. So being free is like being able to be and to interact with the universe. Yeah, this
Richard: got so embedded, this idea of saying no to reality, got so embedded in Descartes and Nietzsche and these kinds of philosophers, they embedded this wrong idea. Let's take a quick break and we'll talk more about this because it's a fascinating thing.
Can you stay a few
Cláudia: more minutes? Yes, yes, I do.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. We're back to talk about freedom with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco in just a moment.
Home to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, healing through consciousness, analyzing the 1% and the conscious company.
Richard: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. You know, there are many ways to dig deeper into the themes we discuss in our Stop Radio Network programs.
There are books and TV and radio programs, conferences, teleclasses. But what about this one? Learning a language. That's kind of wild, isn't it? Millennium Language School in São Paulo, where I teach, incidentally, offers eight language courses using Norberto Keppe's psycholinguistic method. Yeah, we use his vast literature and scientific findings to make it easier for anyone to learn a language. It'd be a great time to tackle Portuguese, actually, with Brazil quickly becoming a prime world destination.
And you can learn online from wherever you are. So drop us a line if you'd like to learn more.
Millennium Language Schools. We're teaching life in eight languages.
Norberto Keppe. And there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world.
This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: I'm Richelieu Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is joining me again.
It's always fascinating to talk about the human will. I don't know anybody who's studied this like Keppe in philosophy, from what I can determine. I was thinking about this because the media today, Cláudia, is so lost in this respect because they don't have a sort of a basis from which to analyze things. So there's a big lot of debate going on now with this election in the United States between Mitt Romney and Obama.
And they were talking about Obama's strengths in one news report I was reading. And they said, well, one of the good things he did was he killed Osama bin Laden. Without any sort of irony to explore that they're talking about the benefit of killing another person and okay there's all this thought that you know about terrorism and all this kind of things so people justified on that basis.
But he's talking about the media is talking about a man who killed another man ordered people to kill another man as this is a benefit or advantage. So we
Cláudia: start from a denial here killing is taking away lives so it's a form of denial. So be free to say no to life. Be free to say no to diplomacy. Be free to say no to friendship. Be free to say no to cooperation. Be free to say no to free commerce and fair commerce. Be free to say no to everything that is good.
So, when Keppe understands freedom, and you can only be free to do what is good, beautiful, and truthful, he's saying that we can be free to interact with the cosmos, with everything that is infinitely beautiful, truthful, and good. Even God, God is the notion of omnipotence, total infinite, total power, and we have the tendency to see God as restriction in our lives.
So
Richard: it's totally upside down. You have to walk the narrow path. So,
Cláudia: to be free, under Keppe's understanding, is to be free to accept the infinite love, truth, beauty, and goodness in cosmos, in creation, and even in the transcendental eternity. So, this is to be free. When you are free to say no to this, so you start creating pathology, you start creating trouble, suffering, pain.
And you can say, of course you can say, you can say no to your essence. We do this all the time. That's why we die. That's why we get sick. That's why we have wars, social injustice, turmoil, chaos, because we started to say no in freedom. So freedom is not to say no, as Kant put it, is to say yes to what is good, beautiful and truthful, as Keppe put it.
So this is applicable in social pathology and in psychopathology, individual pathology. That book that Keppe wrote about the age of reason, he's bringing this concept to that all, he does an analysis of the emotional philosophers and philosophies and the rational philosophies and philosophers. So the emotional ones lead to disgrace and chaos. And the rational ones are the true ones. So this Illuminati group, they are not rational.
They are not following the Enlightenment. They are following their emotions and their will. And this is pathology, right? So in the individual level, Keppe has all the books. And there is not such a separation between individual and society. There is an interaction, an essential
Richard: interaction, a dialectic. Even with the spiritual world, we cannot separate. It's
Cláudia: integrated. Kep is a totally holistic thinker.
So we think, Jones, that those who want to understand and to denounce and to be aware and to defend themselves about pathology of power and sociopathology, they have those books. And we have all the books that are for individual benefit also more focused on individual level. But as soon as you start getting more conscious of pathology, you become a social agent. This
Richard: is unavoidable.
Yeah, because, you know, we can't, I see one of the problems that they make in the Occupy Wall Street movement and the environmental movement, they want to blame the situation only on... Only,
Cláudia: only, yes. ...corporation. So what do we do? We have this process of conscientization of the psychopathology. We have courses, we have books, we have TV programs, we have radio shows.
But we also have individual analysis, group therapy. We have courses to treat about the psychopathology. And in this area of your individual life, you can do a lot. There is a lot you can do in your own life and in your local community, in your family, in your local community. So that's what we are doing here with our clients, with our students.
And also, as we normally mention here, Kambukira is a psychosocial project. We try to bring there all the discoveries that Keppe did about this importance of arts, the importance of good action, the importance of cooperation, the importance of all these concepts that are included. In the concept of fifth empire, of this age of, the golden age. And it seems that the Illuminati and those groups of the new world order, they want to organize a world for themselves, being on the top in control.
And what we see is that a new world order will come, a new organization, a new spirit, a new
Richard: philosophy is coming
Cláudia: and will have to come, but on the opposite direction of what they want. So cooperation instead of competition. People should have secured, ensured their rights to have food, house, shelter, education, all the basic needs. Every baby that is born on the planet should have this secured for them.
As
Richard: a natural, well, inalienable rights, as
Cláudia: Martin Luther King called it. We should take seriously the declarations of human rights. Those items should be taken seriously. Nobody takes them seriously. And we do. We do take them seriously.
Richard: If people wanted to embark on this process of understanding Dr. Keppe's work, obviously the books are wonderful, our radio programs are a great start, But really, doing psychoanalysis would be something that might be very useful.
Cláudia: Yes, yes. We have analysts attending clients. I do myself, and there are other analysts of our society attending clients in many languages. So we
Richard: attend them in Portuguese, for sure, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Finnish, French. German. German. I told English, right? I don't know if you did, but English
Cláudia: for sure. English for sure. They are half an hour sessions. They do by phone or by Skype.
So no problem. And they are like reasonable price. Very reasonably priced. Very reasonably
Richard: priced. Because we are an NGO. And we can do that. It works extremely well. By people who are thinking how do I do psychoanalysis by phone. Because it works extremely well.
Cláudia: They have to have a sofa. Or a couch or a bed. Or something very comfortable for them to lie down and open the Skype and then start speaking with no disturbances and then things work.
And there are many people being healed, psychosomatic or organic diseases, and treating about relationship problems and so forth. So besides this, as you said, we will have, like we have in Cambuquita, some seminars, some activities like encounters, meetings, forums,
Richard: meetings, discussions.
Cláudia: And we plan a very good one in July 2013 where people can come and there is a group in the United States organizing this, a group linked to Pace University and to our association in the United States.
But they can directly talk to us here in São Paulo. Sure. So people will come and spend 15 days having all the activities that could benefit them in terms of health, physical health, mental health, social health, and learning also how do we proceed. We are proceeding. We are starting to build a small cell of a new form of society, a trilogical society, where money is not the law.
Richard: There is like even a social
Cláudia: currency, as we say here. And we have cooperation and we have all this integration between different social and economic levels of people. So it's really enlightening and spiritual. So we will have this. People can start saving money to pay for their air tickets, and I'm sure the organization will have a good price. I will receive the information next week from this American organizer.
He is organizing a package.
But it's really hopeful, Cláudia, that we have a, like...
Cláudia: We have even an oficina, workshop there that is building fans with our Keppe motor to bring money to the community, to the local community. So they are building incredibly high quality fans that are built by, like with wood.
And all the fan, the motor, everything is handmade. Like a Swiss watch. And it's so effective,
Richard: so economic. And the breeze of this substitutes air conditioning. Yeah. You don't need air conditioning
Cláudia: because it's very cool. Yes.
Richard: Building fans to change the world.
Cláudia: Magnetic motors. Yes, magnetic motors. And this we have. It's going on. And they're so beautiful. They are handmade. They are, like, unique.
And you can have one for you with a color and you choose. So
Richard: one thing I'd just like to suggest to you who are listening is to come to this, to try to understand this, Keppe's work, by understanding what Dr. Keppe is saying because there is really a very clear and well-defined path for creating a new society here.
Cláudia: And you know something, in order to read and understand a text, you need to have a magnetic energy in your body and in your brain.
And if you use too much cell phones, internet, computers, you will start, and those musics you hear all the time, you will lose your sensitivity. And the magnetism of your brain is going to be harmed. And your neurons will have problems even to concentrate in subjects that are linked to magnetism and intuition, which is the basis of the universe. So you go further and further away from reality, and this seems to have been planned by some beings.
We don't know exactly who started this, but this technology takes away people from the true reality, which is magnetism. So, if you have a chance to go back to analogical record players and radios and
Richard: everything. Analog, yes. Analog. Record players, tape machines.
Cláudia: If you can have the chance to use those old-fashioned phones and everything. So, go back to that because otherwise your brain will be very deeply harmed.
I'm afraid I have to use many times internet. And I have to use Skype. And I have to use cell phones unfortunately. Because it is like something. Like the 666 thing. If you don't use it you cannot work. You are outside the world. So it's been imposed. But technologically they are very harmful for our health and for the planet. Well
Richard: if you're like me no doubt you gulped a little there.
Who of us doesn't use the internet and cell phones and all that excessively hard to avoid that destructive technology although please don't go to any extremes and cut out listening to our programs don't need to go that far with it. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is a production of the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil.
Keppe's extraordinary work, you can check us out there thanks for listening, I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and we're back again next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head
