Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Your spirituality, if it's not linked to goodness, beauty, and truth, to Jesus Christ, we will be linked to anger, to projection, to death, wanting to bring down mankind to the level of just animals.
Richard Lloyd Jones: Now, the Stop Radio Network presents another episode in our continuing series on therapeutic theology with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and Richard Lloyd Jones. I was reflecting on this, where I grew up and the circle of friends I grew up with, Cláudia, we didn't give much value to religion. There have even been a big movement to take the sort of spiritual words out of the national anthem and these kinds of movements in Canada. And it strikes very deep. We may think that we have no spiritual values, but in fact, it's something that every human being has.
Cláudia: Not only the spiritual values, but historical, cultural, artistic.
Richard: Who we are as a nation, yeah.
Cláudia: My God, my God. So when they were planning to take away in this chart of this European community, they took away this notion that Europe was built on Christianity, all the culture. So they wanted to sweep away all notions of Christianity. And I remember an atheist historian, he was saying, this is a monstrous attitude. Because who that is in his mind, his right mind, saying that we will take away from history, the influence of Christianity in law, in culture, arts, development, everything, civilization, European civilization was built upon Christianity for centuries and centuries and millennia, two millennia.
Richard: Exactly right.
Cláudia: Even visual arts, music, dance, theater, movies, everything, everything.
Richard: And isn't it interesting in times of crisis, no matter how atheistic we are, we call for God.
Cláudia: Oh God, oh God, oh God, oh Jesus, God, Jesus.
Richard: All the time?
Cláudia: All the time. So denying this seems to be a stupidity, not only a lack of faith.
Richard: Something so picayune, so small, so insignificant.
Cláudia: Insignificant. So, you know, I lived and worked, and I used to go to Notre Dame during this Holy Week. On Friday, the Holy Friday, we had all those queues of people waiting to— Thousands of people waiting to get into the— Yeah, to watch, to see this crown— Yeah, of thorns. Of thorns.
Richard: The robe, pieces of the cross that they have there. The wood of the cross. The nails.
Cláudia: And you know something? When we got near these objects, we could absolutely feel such a tremendous magnetism in those objects. I felt that many times. So we see all this believing in goodness, in truth, in beauty being dissolved, being dismantled. So we think, is this another attempt of this so-called elite of the New World Order trying to create and to feed anger and religious war? Because they live on drugs, on arms, on wars, so they destroy and they loan money to people so they pay, like, interest.
Richard: And they destroy countries and they loan money to the countries to rebuild the countries. Exactly. It's unbelievable.
Cláudia: This is their game. This is their game. And people fall into this game. This is so sad because brothers and sisters and countries and peoples, they fight exactly as a result of the intention of the evil powerful that ruled the world, especially now the New World Order, the satanic New World Order. And we feel this. We can feel it. It's an anti-Christ, anti-God civilization. That's right. This is even so clear. It's anti-human.
Richard: They even take away hope, this hopelessness. Maybe this is another. Too much, isn't it? Too much, isn't it?
Cláudia: Too big for us to fight.
Richard: Yeah. They attack this too. Somehow it's a spiritual attack. There's some kind of. There's absolutely. You can almost feel Lucifer laughing, you know, while the church is burning, you know, this maniacal laughter that you hear in the movies.
Cláudia: Because most of these people, they are not like, they don't, it's not that they are not absolutely spiritual. They are, but they are in a different way. They are in an evil spirituality. You cannot be non-spiritual. You cannot be just an animal. Live totally as an animal. You must have some sort of spirituality. The thing is that your spirituality, if it's not a true spirituality, linked to goodness, beauty, and truth, linked to Jesus Christ, if we are not linked to this, we will be linked to anger, to projection, to death and suffering and pain and suicide and violence and murder, perversion.
Yes. Like animalistic wishes and behavior, wanting to bring down mankind to the level of just animals. And this is a very dark spirituality. Yeah. Because you cannot be without your soul. You have it. You cannot take away. So if you're not bringing light to it, it will be dark, and you will suffer the darkness. And people around you will suffer your darkness. It's unavoidable.
Richard: Yeah.
Cláudia: So if they could eliminate their soul, their consciousness, they would. But they cannot. So it's an inner struggle all the time to hide it, to hide it, and hide it, and hide it. You know, every person knows deep inside when they're doing wrong. Every drug addict knows that drugs are not good. He's doing something evil. He's doing something evil against himself. And not only that, but they are feeding the demonic system of drug trafficking and the culture of drug. So they are supporting with their own money.
Richard: And all the money that's made from that, and even the illegal drugs, alcohol, there's a lot of money made from that.
Cláudia: So the first time when they took drugs, when they started, they knew they were doing something like against goodness, against consciousness. And they started. Now they can even be without this notion any longer and feeling victims more and more. So blaming God, it's a dead end kind of thinking. And when a client comes and plays the role of a victim, victim of her husband, victim of her parents, victim of society, I think, oh, this is someone which is sicker than normal.
Because if it's a too strong victimization, it's a sign even sometime of a bigger possession. You see possessed people always, and criminals, always, always saying and claiming they are victims. So people who see only the trouble and the causes of their suffering in others, if they project, they see the good intentions in themselves and all the evil coming from others. They project onto others, oh, they're evil. So these are very difficult clients to deal with. Isn't that totally true?
Richard: In the movies, you see this constantly.
Cláudia: All the time, it's fed. This idea is fed all the time.
Richard: They're using the poor relationship the guy had with his father to justify why he's a serial killer. All the time, you see. All the time. Constantly.
Cláudia: I watched a movie like Chloe, And that wife showed a very, very, very common pathology.
Richard: This is the one with Liam Neeson and, yes, where he... Among women. She thinks that he's having an affair with...
Cláudia: She started to project everything onto him. And he was, like, not paying attention to her. And she was all good intention. They don't mention how envious she was at him because he was a successful man, a very successful teacher. He was loved by all his students, and she was absolutely envious at him. And she started with all these projections. She was the one who was like burning to have an affair, and she had. And what she said in the movie was that she had that affair because of him.
He was the guilty one because he stopped showing desires for her. And not that she was the one who didn't want anything else to do with her husband anymore. And she said, because I'm old. It's not because she was older. Because this is the way women do normally. Younger or older, they do this. So they project onto their husbands all their sexual fantasies, sexual desires, unloyal intentions. And she was very unloyal in the movie. She was extremely deceptive and unloyal to her husband.
She lied. She betrayed him in many ways. And then in the end he was opened and merciful like and loving and respecting forgiving and and you see in the end she didn't let go that fantasy. Because she had this thing using in her hair in the end of the the film yeah using the piece from the other woman.
Richard: It almost destroyed her family, didn't it? Yes. Almost destroyed her family.
Cláudia: If it was not because of him, it would be like total disaster. And this happens much more frequently than you think. Women blaming their husbands, and they are the ones who are really full of fantasies.
Richard: Canadian film, by the way.
Cláudia: This was a Canadian.
Richard: Adam Egoyan is a great, his family grew up in Victoria, my home city. You know, he lives in Toronto.
Cláudia: So they do very psychological movies. But we see that it's a form of feeding this fantasy of lesbianism and like normal. It's like something that is spicy.
Richard: And somehow she has the idea in this film that he has all the advantages because he's able to do that. So she wants to have the same advantages for her. It's the same story for all women.
Cláudia: And so at least if women realize this, if they take responsibility for their own pathology, it would be such a great thing to be done. And so far, still, women are seen as victims. And this is the worst thing, worst for women, because women see themselves as victims. And this is a disaster. It's a disaster because then we don't recognize what is wrong, not recognizing the true root of the problem which is inside of us. We cannot heal it. We cannot correct.
So unhappiness and illness grows and grows endlessly.
