Richard Lloyd Jones: The term's been trotted out by soundbite-trained military commanders trying to come up with a fitting image to describe the enemy. Like the Japanese admiral who reflected after Pearl Harbor, perhaps we've just awakened a sleeping tiger. It's always used to point to a condition of potential that waits, dozing in the wings for its hour on the stage. But in today's desperate world, we need the sleeping tiger to get its butt in gear.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Waking the Sleeping Tiger. This program, I hope, will be a clarion call to all who have a spark still burning in the embers of their idealism, as there was for me when I read Dr. Norberto Keppe's seminal book for idealists the world over, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power.
This book was a beacon for me because of its scientific analysis of our inverted social structure, which has led us so far from anything resembling a just situation. This book is a searing critique that manages to give us hope, even while it's pointing out the sickness and destruction that has come at our hands. Because Keppe's book speaks to a deeper level in us than just revolutionary fervor, like that off-with-their-heads bloodlust that perverted the universal ideals underlying the French Revolution.
Keppe speaks to universal values like tolerance and dignity, while shining an unwavering critical eye on the causes of our current desperate impasse. All the while continuing to suggest reasonable and rational solutions to our dilemma, which we could put into practice immediately to great effect. He also has some extremely important things to say in this book about the pathology of power and how power is controlled by the sickest individuals on the planet.
Something that's never been understood well because of our admiration, quite frankly, for the rich and famous that stems from our inversion and envy, which he outlines in his book. And because the powerful manipulate everything in secret so that everything goes to their favor and not to the favor of the vast majority of human beings.
We quite simply don't get the full story in our media and halls of education and so remain ignorant of this nefarious situation. This, of course, is what I'm trying to address through this program and what Norberto Keppe has been trying to address for decades through his books and TV and radio programs. Our program today will be a wake-up call, we hope, for any of you with dreams for a just society still burning, however dimly, beneath your breast.
Keppe's Science of Analytical Trilogy offers real hope for a way back from the abyss. And I'd like to make Keppe's monumental book, Liberation of the People, available to you free of charge. I'll only ask you to help with the mailing costs, and we'll foot the rest. I think if enough people can get up to speed with Keppe's ideas in this book, really start to resonate with them, well, we're not too late to effect real change on this planet.
Rich at richjonesvoice.com is my email address if you'd like a free copy of Liberation of the People. I'll also invite you to our Psychosocial Forum, May 13th to 15th, 2010. This will be another great opportunity for you to know more about Keppe's Analytical Trilogy. Www.stopforum.org is our website for more information about that. Today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, my colleague, psychosociotherapist Gilbert Gambucci joins me to try to wake up the sleeping tiger.
Well, you and I are kind of products of the 60s, aren't we? Yes. We have this... We're that old. Yeah, we're that... You didn't have to put in the old part, but we are products of the 60s, and with that comes a certain idealism, I think, for some of us. But what you and I perceive, I think, is... Where is it? What's happened to this?
Is it gone? Is it disappeared? Are the sleeping tigers really sleeping, or are they completely lobotomized? What's happening? Well,
Gilbert Gambucci: the 60s was a very curious and interesting time time because in the United States most of the people were anti-establishment this we use this term and what I found out later was as a result the entire world was anti-establishment. I didn't realize that at the time how much influence the United States had on the world with this perception that something is terribly wrong.
People were not satisfied with an unjust society. People didn't exactly know where that was coming from, why there was such injustice and corruption in the very structure of the society. And people didn't want that. They were very against that. Without exactly having a solution for that, the anti-establishment movement turned into something more like love and peace. And then those who were against anti-establishment sentiments sabotaged the situation.
All of a sudden there became this drug culture, alternative culture situation in order to squash the anti-establishment movement more than a movement.
Richard: You're suggesting that that was organized plan, that there was something that happened to kind of cut that off at the knees. Yes. You know, an
Gilbert: example of that would be Woodstock, for example, where this was a kind of rallying point for anti-establishment people, people who wanted a better society.
And it was just completely saturated with drugs in order to terminate that situation. And it was later John Lennon who found out that it was the CIA who did that. And CIA is the right arm of these economically powerful people, as we call
Richard: them. Yeah, the CIA is really working for the corporations of North America, particularly the big drug companies and stuff.
And they were working on these Bluebird projects and things in the 50s to look at mind control and drugs. So it's pretty clear that there's a big link between the introduction of drugs and the CIA. But the point I think we want to get to, Gilbert, today, is why aren't people reacting now in the same way that was happening in the 60s?
What in your view is going on there? There was so much people marching in the streets and protests on the college campuses and all that kind of thing, and that seems to be gone almost completely from our North American culture. What happened? Well, you know,
Gilbert: first of all, Rich, It's very curious how Americans don't want to see what's going on, just don't want to know about it.
You know, it's a psychological factor here. And in studying Dr. Keppe's book, Liberation of the People, this is the first book written, ever written. It's historical because it's the first book ever written about the pathology, the sickness of those who wield power. You know, it's a scientific perspective about how these people think, the sickness that they have. And in this book, there's a quote here.
It says, North Americans need to conscientize, that means to become aware of, the fact that human beings are free only if they adhere to goodness, truth, and beauty. Errors must be conscientized, consciousness not repressed. You know, that is to say, we need to have consciousness of where we are going wrong. You know, it's a scientific thing in order for the goodness, for the good things to flourish.
Jefferson put it this way, if you want to be ignorant and free, you want what never was and never will be. He
Richard: understood very
Gilbert: clearly this. It's like a more poetic way of saying the same thing. We have to become aware of our problems. And in fact, Kennedy was always, the late President John Kennedy, He was always bringing up questions that were not good in the society.
You know, why are the use of tranquilizers going up? Why is the divorce rate going up? Why is mental illness going up? You know, our profits seem to be going up, but so is everything else that is negative in the society. And he wanted analysis of these negative points, of course.
Richard: I remember during the Democratic National Convention when Bobby Kennedy went down to the South And I remember the very thoughtful reports that he provided from there when reporters asked him, what do you think is going on down here?
He says, well, in very thoughtful terms, I think it's very difficult. These people have no jobs. The government money has run out. There's no opportunity for them. And he said, I think we need to do something for these people. He was pointing out the problem. We were spending all this money on Vietnam and building up our military. And what are we doing for these people here in our own country?
And so the Kennedys were, you're right, they were very concerned to look at the problems. Martin Luther King, too, he didn't shy away from talking about the problems. And they were trying to bring a real consciousness to us. I think
Gilbert: rich people don't have an awareness that the anti-establishment movement in the 60s was stopped by an organized group of people. People don't realize that, you know.
Imagine the president of the United States at that time, John Kennedy, who, in my opinion, was the last president we've seen who represented the people. He called a meeting in 1961, April 27th. He had a press conference with the American newspaper. Publishers Association. And because he wanted to talk to them about awareness that he had about the dangers of secret sect societies.
Because when you were mentioning, Rich, about multinational corporations, it doesn't exactly stop there. Behind many of these multinationals, there's a little group of, I call them psychotic billionaires, a little group of very sick, economically powerful people. They're very well organized, and they are the upper echelons of these secret sex societies. They're the same group of people. You know, to name a few of these families that dominate economically the situation, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Schiff's, the Morgan family, the Oppenheimers, there's a group, and they are very well organized, and they have a purpose in their undertakings for humanity.
And Kennedy was very alarmed by this. And look, I have here a part of his speech to the American media. He was saying, look, ladies and gentlemen, the very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society. And we as a people are inherently and historically opposed to secret societies. To secret oaths and to secret proceedings. And he went on to describe what these people do, what they are like and what they do, why they are a danger to the American public and to the world.
And, for example, a quote, he continues, We are opposed, we Americans, we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence. On infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice. And he goes on to describe how these people operate. And these people are within the United States, most of them.
They're not like another country or these secret sect society multinational industrialists. They're mostly American and some Japanese and some European. Now look, he's pleading with the American media. He says, quote, I am asking for your help in the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people. And so it is to the printing press. To the recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news, that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help, the media, man will be what he was born to be, free and independent.
That is to say, not enslaved and dependent on economic power. And so imagine, this is the president addressing the media, asking them for help to bring this consciousness to the American public about the dangers of these secret sect societies.
Richard: Yeah, but you know, a couple of many thoughts come to mind as you're talking about that great speech of Kennedy. 61, you said.
Yes. 61, so right at the beginning of his presidency. So that's like a really interesting comment. But I perceive today that in journalism classes, a lot of the journalists who are going to become journalists now throughout North America are not there to become journalists. They're there to go into public relations. They're there to become communication specialists for corporations. They want to make some commercial use of their journalism skills.
So we're not having true journalism today. And so Kennedy was making an appeal. It's not just Kennedy who's talked about this. The John Swinton, former New York Times chief of staff, this is decades ago now, said there's no such thing in America as an independent press. We are the tools and vassals for rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men.
We are intellectual prostitutes. So they're talking about these things as Kennedy was trying to do to appeal to the media. Look, we need help. We need to get the message out there.
Gilbert: So, Rich, I know that you're the interviewer here, but can I ask you a question? Sure, yeah. How did the media respond to Kennedy? Kennedy pleading for their help to bring this awareness to the American public, you know, to the dangers of secret sex societies.
Do Americans have this awareness in general? No, of course
Richard: not. It's completely hidden. Ah, so what happened there? So it was completely covered up. Kennedy's plea was not followed. So
Gilbert: who has the power to cover something up, a greater power than the president of the United States? What is this?
Richard: Well, we have David Rockefeller, the founder of the Trilateral Commission, speaking in June 1991.
So that's 30 years after Kennedy. 30 years later. 30 years and a couple of months later.
Gilbert: And this is a pretty famous speech. You
Richard: can find this on YouTube. You can find Kennedy's on YouTube, too, where David Rockefeller said, We're grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years.
It would have been impossible, I'm quoting now, It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.
Gilbert: So with hindsight, we can see that the media was already in the hands of the economically powerful. They owned the media. They act in the interest of these people. And so the anti-establishment movement in the 60s was squashed. And not just like sabotaged, it was very violently confronted because it was becoming a world movement. And we have this term that we use, the sleeping tigers.
What is that exactly? You know, every movement has its leaders. And so what happened? Kennedy was murdered in front of our eyes. He was a great leader of the people themselves. And who else was of this kind of spirit, this spirit that is linked to the founding fathers, this altruistic philosophy of life, this question of contributing to society and not just taking from it, but giving to it so that the society itself develops.
You know, who's of this line? It's completely different from these economically powerful who just take everything they can from society. And so we see leaders like Martin Luther King, you know, was assassinated. It started with, he began as a civil rights, movement leader, but very quickly turned into this whole question of anti-establishment. You know, the whole nation got behind him. Especially against the war in Vietnam.
He was very vocal about that. Malcolm X, in some ways, was a part of this as well. And then the last was when Robert Kennedy was running for president. It was the last hope of this anti-establishment people who wanted a more just society. He was the last hope. After he was assassinated, everything went quiet. That was it. Everything went quiet. Nobody questioned anything anymore.
Now it's every man for himself. Now everybody takes from society. Nobody gives to it anymore. Our philosophy of life changed.
Richard: We stopped working. We base our economy on speculation. And everything went downhill from there. And you know, Gilbert, these techniques that they have to infiltrate are very, very sophisticated. They take these grassroots movements things, which have existed for the last 40 years, especially in environmental issues, and they infiltrate, they take over.
They create this idea that corporations and these public interest groups need to partner together and sit down and negotiating win-win solutions. But what happens is the grassroots movement gets taken over, gets usurped by these corporate powers and by these secret societies who infiltrate all the time. And so this is a technique they use to take away the people, people's activity. And so, you know, we're talking about reinitiating these grassroots movements, getting people interested and activated, awake again.
Yes, you
Gilbert: know, people have the idea that one person killed John Kennedy, a different person killed Robert Kennedy, somebody else killed Martin Luther King, like random sick people who did this. Without perceiving that there's an organized group of people who stopped the anti-establishment movement. 1960s. So, since then, has the situation improved or why has things become so quiet? So strangely quiet. You know, even though the civilization is in a certain decadence, everything is very quiet.
You know, I have a quote here from Dr. Keppe from his book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power. And he asks a question here. And we really have to consider this. He says this, quote, That's a great question. These guys, why can they do anything they like? And they're above the law. In fact, they manipulate the law to serve them.
They can do their corruption. They can do their injustice to society by law. And so this is the situation we're in.
Richard: You were just there. You were just in the United States. And your observations of why people are not reacting and what's happening. Because, you know, the situation is dire. We see this all around. And we see this economic corruption, now the economy starting to fall apart, or not starting to fall apart, it's been falling apart for 30 years, but
Gilbert: we're seeing the sort of the end, the death throes of it now.
But what did you observe there, Gilbert? What are your observations about having been there recently, after about 20 years, right? You were out of the country for a long time. Yes, Rich, in general, people don't believe that the country is in a decadence. And we use the word decadence rather than decline, because decadence shows disintegration. The civilization is disintegrating before people's eyes.
But I noticed something, Rich. How can you close the eyes of Americans to keep them asleep? How can you keep the sleeping tiger asleep? You know, if you give him a new car, and you keep the highways in good shape, and you keep him so that he's able to keep his home comfortable, you know, these immediate material needs. Then all the rest of the things collapsing around him, he has a tendency not to look at that.
I never saw the United States people driving around in new cars. Everybody has a new car. What is that? I never saw that before. Everybody has a new car. All of the highways are very well taken care of. People are fixing up their homes.
Richard: Gas prices are reasonable.
Gilbert: And everything else is collapsing. So they really know how to handle Americans. They know how to keep their eyes closed, keep them asleep.
Americans, Rich, they haven't perceived yet that they've been robbed. You know, they're still asleep, so they don't perceive that we have been robbed. Not only economically, financially, but we've even been robbed of our birthright. We've been robbed of living in a way where all men are created equal, where we can pursue happiness as we see it.
Richard: We've been robbed of our birthright.
Yeah, and I think, Gilbert, when I go to Canada and I talk to people, or even to the United States, I talk to people, I perceive that the public is apathetic and kind of uninformed. But I think people do have a sense that something's wrong. Like, we're not in Kansas anymore. There is that feeling, too. But people kind of have this sense of, well, what do you do?
What can you do about it? And they also, people tend to think, well, if anything really bad is happening, I'm going to find out about it sooner or later. So for now, I'm just going to get by, pay the bills, and do the best I can and leave that. And this is a dangerous attitude to take. Yes, Rich, they
Gilbert: know that something is wrong.
People know that something is terribly wrong, but they don't know who the enemy is. And they don't realize the extent. And the enemy puts in front of their eyes somebody who is not the enemy. I'll go after Bin Laden, go after this group or that group without seeing who they are. Who is this little group of multi-billionaires, psychotic individuals, very sick-minded people who have designs for the American nation, and they are doing it.
And I saw one attitude there, Rich. There's a kind of an attitude like, well, America, right or wrong? We get behind our president, right or wrong, because we're united. And it's something, Rich, that I saw is not an American spirit. This is not the American spirit. You know, for example, Abraham Lincoln, he said, stand with a man when he is right and part with him when he is wrong.
Yeah, there's a discernment there, right? You have to discern in some way. That is to say, if he insists on being in the wrong, staying corrupt, doing what is unjust, then part with him. You know, there's not this thing, well, America, right or wrong. That is not in the American spirit. That is anti-American. And, you know, Lincoln, he said something very interesting.
You have to put this in perspective because in his time, this was the type of slavery was Negro slave slavery, right? And he said this, look at this, either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it, or its advocates will push it forward. You know, the union will become all one thing or all the other. So if these sick billionaires, I call them psychotic multinational billionaires, if they are continued to put their designs for America and the world forward, they will.
And the United States will become all one thing, all subjugated to them or all another. So, Rich, will the sleeping tiger wake up? This is our question. We've been robbed. When will we wake up? We've already been robbed. It's not that we're being robbed. We've already been robbed.
Richard: And listen, this is a direct challenge in a way, Gilbert, what you're saying. Cláudia Pacheco on another program we did about the lost values of Woodstock talked about this very thing.
If you're out there, if you're listening to us, and you have some of this fire inside you, we want to hear from you. Send us emails. Let us know. We can get you copies of Keppe's book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, which is an absolute gem of a book for us in this particular period. It was written in the 80s, but it's relevant for us totally today.
So write to us. My email is rich at richjonesvoice.com. And we would love to hear from you, Gilbert and I, to let us know that you're alive. And then maybe we can do something together. We can find some ways to work together to help the consciousness of this get into the world because the Americans need to wake up, not just the Americans, the world entirely.
Gilbert: Yes, Richard, anybody who has their eyes a little bit open can see that the American government has been completely subjugated to this economic power. But completely, you know, 95%. And so it's no use waiting or thinking that the government is going to take care of our situation. Either we take our own lives in our hands or somebody else will or somebody else already has.
Richard: Now, we've had a direct experience of this here in Brazil with a little town that we've been initiating projects for the last five or six years. We have a hotel there, a spa, and we've been initiating some community projects. And you can talk directly about this because you're directly involved in one. Gilbert has been giving piano lessons to underprivileged children for the last year with tremendous success and tremendous impact inside the community.
And this is a grassroots movement that has not begun from any government money. We don't accept any money from corporations from governments. We're totally self-funded. Yeah,
Gilbert: you know Rich, we have the we use a Kepien orientation perspective that it's the arts that is the soul of society. I'm noticing in the United States we've lost our soul as a society and the arts need to come back.
You know we need to nurture our more artistic people in order for the soul of society to come back. So, as you mentioned, we're doing this in this little village of 5,000 people in the mountains of Brazil. And like you said, I'm giving free piano lessons to the children there. And it's very interesting how it's, the ramifications of that. In fact, a full-page article in a national newspaper here came out about this American guy who's giving piano lessons to the kids because it really has caused a big to-do there.
Just this little work of getting people playing the piano, getting some music into the situation, recovering the soul of society. And so we're just doing what we're doing, whether they like it or not, whether they speak well of us or badly. You know, this is the real American spirit, to take the bull by the horns yourself and do it. And one of
Richard: our other colleagues from Portugal, Maria de Lourdes is doing clothing design courses for women there, and it's having an enormous impact on these women who have had no skills, no ability to.
To go out and work, and now they're developing these abilities to make clothes for their families and for other people. And it's having an enormous impact, this social project.
Gilbert: You know, Rich, sometimes I get a little discouraged with my fellow Americans. Where is the spirit of doing what you know is good for others to do, even in the face of powerful people who are not agreeing with you?
Especially in the face of them, actually. Especially. You know, where is this? Where's this spirit of doing what is the right thing to do? I wonder if that spirit is still alive.
Richard: It's a valid point Gilbert is that sleeping tiger still alive rich at richjonesvoice.com. Gilbert and I would love to hear from you. Let us know you're around so we can work together.
Do know that you have some very idealistic brothers and sisters here in brazil. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Great to have you listening.
