This is Healing Through Consciousness. You project onto the people in your neighborhood everything you feel about you unconsciously, but this doesn't happen in the logical, rational level. It does not. Welcome to another therapy session online. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Is there any one of us completely free of what happened in our upbringing? I was joking with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt
Richard Lloyd Jones: Pacheco after the therapy session you're about to listen to I was relating to today's client.
She's dealing with fear of judgment, and I can relate to that feeling of pressure in social situations. As Dr. Pacheco will discuss today, there's a lot of internalization that we do of the demanding and censoring environment we grew up in that's at play here. The brilliance of the integral psychoanalysis we use here in our therapy online series is how we are brought to see how that has become a demanding nature that we've continued in our lives.
So we're not stuck in that victim posture of being only a product of what happened to us, but a continuation, something we now do to ourselves, mostly unconsciously. It's fascinating stuff, as you're about to hear with Dr. Pacheco and today's client.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: I just wanted to say good morning and tell you, okay, come in, lie down in my couch, and I'll be behind you during the session.
You will not see me. You will not look behind your back to see me, okay? So the communication will be mostly an inner communication, okay? All right. You may please speak about your life. We don't have that many sessions, so you need to be concise and say something about who you are. I will not mention your name, and you don't mention any names, okay?
Okay. I am, let's see, I'm a mother. I'm a wife. I live in the Northeast United States.
I'm returning to school and just living life and trying to be the best possible version of myself that I can.
Cláudia: Okay. So you're a mother of how many children?
My husband and I have a blended family. So together we have five kids. I have three biological. I have twins that are seven, a 13-year-old. My husband has a 15-year-old and a 23-year-old.
Cláudia: Okay.
And what do you do in your everyday life?
The role of mother is the biggest right now. I recently have been laid off from my job that I had for just over four years. And it wasn't my career. It was just something I could do while the kids were in daycare and starting school. So now that they're in school, it opens up some time for me to return to school and focus on an actual career and, you know, aspiring voiceover artist, which is a little bit more of a hobby right now.
Cláudia: Okay. What would be the reason or the focus for you to be here with me today? Um,
I think the biggest thing that I thought we could tackle today was, I'm not sure if it's the proper terminology, but I would call it like a slight agoraphobia. Specifically, I have trouble, you know, going out into the neighborhood and, for example, like walking the dogs.
I get a sense of anxiety. But I can get in my car and go anywhere and be anywhere out in public. It's just mostly this existing in my neighborhood. And I'm trying to find the root of that issue. It seems so small and trivial, but it's something I struggle with. Okay.
Cláudia: So I would ask you to say in very spontaneous words, with not the necessity of being reasonable or logic in what you say, just your impressions about your neighborhood.
What are you afraid of? Even illogical, illogical things or don't censor anything.
Just say. Um being
seen I think is an issue. Uh partially some unhealthy body images maybe. Um the fact that I grew up in this neighborhood and and I I actually live in the house that I grew up in. I we purchased it from my parents. And maybe it's judgment from the neighbors that I've known growing up. Like I used to babysit for the people across the street that are still there.
And I, and I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not quite sure, but I think it might be a combination of the judgment, you know, like being the, the silly kid that might've caused some trouble in the neighborhood. But I'm, I'm, I'm not sure. I think just being seen, I think is the biggest thing that's sticking out to me. And it doesn't, it doesn't seem rational at all to
Cláudia: me.
Okay. I would like you to speak a little bit about your childhood, about your family, about your home, your father, your mother, their relationship in the marriage, how they related to you.
Did you have siblings or what?
I am adopted. I was adopted at a very young age, like right from birth. I do have a relationship with my biological mother, but we didn't find each other until I was in my mid-30s. I'm in my mid-40s now. But growing up with my parents, they were Roman, Catholic, Italian, somewhat strict. Um they're they're wonderful people.
My father has since passed away uh since April. So my mother is still around but they you know were we weren't allowed to have guy friends. Um but we had a very big neighborhood uh lots of children and we would all take turns playing at each other's houses. It It was a very close-knit neighborhood. Were you the only child? I am the youngest of
Cláudia: four daughters.
And were the other siblings adopted also or biological children?
One of them is adopted also. She's three years older than I am, and the other two are biological of my parents, and there's about an 18, 17 to 18-year age gap.
Cláudia: 17 and 18 years gap from the first two and you too. Correct. Adopted. Yep. How did you feel the relationship that your parents had between the biological children and you?
It sort of felt like my sister and I, the one that's closest in age to me, we were pretty much on our own. The older two were, I was very young and they were just, you know, leaving high school and entering college.
So they weren't always around. And I think that my older sibling and I, the one that's adopted, were pretty close. And I just always felt like since our parents were a little bit older and from a different generation that, you know, they didn't really understand us. And it was, you know, looking back, it was a little stressful. It was a little bit of a harsh environment.
My father was a math teacher, and he was the kind of man who would go to church every morning and serve the communion.
And so you didn't you didn't really mess with him or talk back or, you know, it was just they were pretty strict.
Cláudia: OK, so going a little bit further, being seen by others, what do you associate with? What do you think or imagine other people will see in you or might see?
Oh, gosh. Go
Cláudia: deep.
Relax.
Cláudia: I was always a
pretty shy kid, but I was cute as a button, so I don't know.
It's just not something I've ever really been able to figure out. You know, my mother put us in modeling and all kinds of dance recitals. And I think my sister jumped off the stage at one point. We were both, you know, pretty shy, but she tried to put us out there. And I remember at a very young age, my mother would send us into the store to pay the utilities.
And I never had done that before. So it was a traumatizing experience. Almost. I don't have issues doing anything like that now, but I remember just being put into a lot of situations where I didn't have any, I guess, confidence is the word, to navigate the situation, if that makes sense.
So you
Cláudia: felt inadequate?
I would say so.
Cláudia: What else did you feel? Um,
just scared of the world. I was just a very sheltered child, and I, uh... What
Cláudia: did you, what did you feel they could do to you?
Um, I don't know. I don't think I ever really thought about that. I just... Attack you somehow? I'm not sure. It's a possibility.
I know that, you know, when we were younger, there was the big white van that you weren't supposed to approach, you know, the guys trying to give the kids candy. Maybe I was afraid of being kidnapped. I don't know. I honestly...
Cláudia: So the world was like a big danger. Yes. Mm-hmm. And being a danger, this means that something negative, some hurt, some pain could be from the world to you to destroy you somehow to attack you somehow.
I
guess I felt vulnerable.
Cláudia: Yeah vulnerable like being
attacked I think so.
I just I know
Cláudia: it is not clear it's not rational it's not intellectual but it's a feeling a sensation your life was in danger somehow. I think so. Your integrity, your life. Is this all? Can you relate to this feeling? I can. Okay. All right. So, the attitude of your parents, when you think about them in general, in your life, how did you see them as persons?
Think about them and give images or words.
They yelled a lot. They were stressed out a lot. They were seeming to be angry. But they were very happy people in their own community. They were very well respected. But to me, I just felt like I was always in trouble or doing something wrong.
Cláudia: Uh-huh. Okay. So this being angry were against your mistakes?
Yes. Or
against possible mistakes you could do?
Cláudia: Uh-huh. And this kind of behavior, do you see it as healthy?
Their behavior? Yeah. I did not. But you didn't, like, realize what was going on?
Correct. I just knew that I was always in trouble and my parents were always angry. Okay,
Cláudia: so the concept of right was what they did to you. They were always right. So this was a model of a right behavior, not a sick behavior for you. This is important for you to understand.
You learned their pathological behavior as the right behavior, the correct behavior. And you were wrong, not them. Okay. So you learned as a proper good thing to be very strict. And being strict to you is a form of virtue.
I don't know if I ever agreed with them. I rebelled a lot and would always try to stick up for myself and argue.
Cláudia: Yeah, but even though, even rebelling, you had this image of authority, of power. Strictness is like authority. Can you see this?
I do. Okay. So, this pattern of values are upside down. Now, rationally, can you see this? I can. All right. So, being strict, attacking one's mistakes or one's possible mistakes is a sick behavior, unbalanced emotional. Do you agree with this? I do okay. But you internalize this without acknowledging this is in your unconscious and you rebel against this inside of you too.
So you push this down in your unconscious but this is still there and it's very active. When you go out on the streets of your neighborhood, you have this impression, this impulse, irrational impulse, that other people will judge you and attack you as your parents did. Do you follow? I do. Okay. But what is most important in this situation is that you don't perceive that you have this strictness also in you.
And this is the root and the source of your problem.
Tremendous strictness, which is unconscious. You think you are like, you behave in a loose way, let's say. You don't mind about mistakes that much, but you do mind. And this you swallow and put down in your unconscious. So I I'm go
I'm sorry go ahead. No no so the strictness I I'm being strict with myself internally is that we're like
Cláudia: um like very much so like shame very much so.
And this persecutes you it's with you 24 hours a day because I'm 24 hours and I mean 24 hours even sleeping. This is in your unconscious now, like an enemy of yourself. Okay. Now you project onto the people in your neighborhood everything you feel about you unconsciously. You are a trouble. You cause trouble. You are inadequate. Okay. But this doesn't happen in the logical, rational level.
It does not. And like the homework I would give you is to let these memories come to the surface and the feelings you have of inadequacy and the strictness because they are very much alive in yourself and they are causing trouble.
So
even though I don't believe in the belief system that my parents had, somewhere subconsciously controlling my everyday actions that on some level I am holding myself accountable to their expectations? Yes,
Cláudia: because you absorbed as the right thing to do. Even though you don't like it, you rebel against it, but this is a model of behavior, an ideal behavior that you can't live up to that standard of life and so it's a big pressure.
Yes
I see that.
Cláudia: So she is afraid of seeing herself all the time and this being seen is what happens with her own consciousness. So she represses you repress your own consciousness like you don't want to be seen by your own consciousness. If you do, you will disapprove yourself. Interesting. In many, many, many levels, many ways. Besides, there must be some feeling of being rejected by your biological mother.
I would say,
Cláudia: yes, growing up. Which might be unconscious, too, or conscious, or half-conscious. I agree. What would you say about this?
I would say growing up definitely felt rejected by my biological parents. After meeting her and having the long discussions about that, I have absolutely accepted her decision to do that. And I, you know, she did what she had to do.
There's no ill will there's no hostility or animosity. I have complete acceptance but I would say as a kid I always felt displaced and like I didn't
Cláudia: belong really anywhere. Yes and this feeling this hurtful feeling you try to cover up you explain things you say you like you understand your mother's reasons, but your feelings are there and it's important to see them, to acknowledge them.
Do not repress the perception of your feelings. Do not feed like a victimization, but don't repress.
"Deal with your feelings. Look at them. Look at them. Consciousness of our problems is the most powerful healing instrument. Consciousness. Just consciousness. Without a sense of condemnation, approval, non-approval, but seeing things as they are." I would quote something about Jesus Christ, and Catholics normally and other Christians don't understand really this. Jesus said, "I'm the truth, and the truth will liberate you. It's freedom.
He didn't say, I'm a ruler, I'm a judge, ruling you and condemning you all the time and blaming you all the time or putting value to all things. I'm the truth." So being healthier is just knowing ourselves and seeing who we are and why we do things without putting values in this conscientization. And you know why we don't need to? Because we have such a perfect or close to perfect essence that we always, always walk towards perfection, normally, spontaneously.
So we don't need to push ourselves into this direction. We need to push ourselves to see things and being able to have a free choice. So this is how I am, this is how I react, this is how I feel. Is this good? Is this working? So if it's not, try to follow a better attitude, because this is our essence. This conflict of comparing ourselves with an ideal image belongs somehow to our perfect essence.
We are very far from our perfect essence. So we feel this gap, and this hurts. We start to cover up everything that is not according to our perfect essence.
Richard: And this covering up of what's not perfect, this hypocritical masking of what we don't want to see in our behavior, creates enormous stress. That's what causes us to want to avoid social situations. So it's what's going on inside us, not the outside circumstance, that drives our reactions.
That's the process of interiorization in action. And a reminder that help is here. Our Healing Through Consciousness therapy online podcast is open for your calls and comments. Joneshealing at gmail.com I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
