Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: This
Richard Lloyd Jones: is Healing Through Consciousness.
Cláudia: I would like you to consider that your son could have been drawn to this evil energetic side of life. And he's suffering because of this. You can be sure.
Richard: Welcome to another therapy session online. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Adolescents and their parents. Well, who doesn't have a story about that? I sometimes wonder how any of us survive our adolescence.
And I would extend that, as I've gotten older, to wondering how our parents survived our adolescence. Premature gray hair is probably the least serious consequence. You know, we are embarking on this experimental journey in this podcast to discover how the therapeutic application of the science of Dr. Norberto Keppe can help people like you. I mean, who of us doesn't have sometimes long-standing issues that have never been adequately resolved?
Sometimes we're hyper-aware of them, things like addictions or recurring psychosomatic health problems. Sometimes we're vaguely conscious of them, there are vivid dreams or unsettling emotions gnawing at us in those quiet moments. Many times we push them down firmly out of sight into the nowhere land of unconsciousness where they foment away unbeknownst to us but still impacting our lives and behaviors in subtle ways.
These are the things we want to help you with in this podcast. Any area of your life you think is not in the shape you think it should be is grist for this therapeutic meal. Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and I await your request to join us in our Therapy for the World initiative at joneshealingatgmail.com. That's joneshealingatgmail.com. Today, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco talks to a mother who's been estranged from her son for the past 15 years.
Doctor, the issue I have is communicating with my older son. We had a falling out many, many years ago, and we've not really spoken since. And my concern right now is the fact that I'm okay not talking with him. I'm okay not seeing him. And I don't know if that's a good thing. The longer it goes on, the farther out we get from talking with each other, I'm okay with it.
And I don't want it to be that way.
Cláudia: So what happened?
My son came to me years ago and said, "Mom, I need to get out of town. Can you help me? I need to get my life together." So I sent him to New York and I put him in one of the houses and him and his wife and the baby. They lived there.
And the only thing I asked them to do, him to do, is to get a job. I didn't want rent. I didn't want anything. Just take care of your family and get a job. Well, he got a job, but he lost the job for stealing.
He wasn't taking care of the building, which wasn't a requirement, but to sweep the floors even, he wasn't doing anything. So I went back into New York to talk with him and his wife, and they were just not doing good. My mother-in-law lived around the corner. They would go over there because they were hungry. She would ask them to pay a bill.
They would take the money and buy pizza and soda and not even tell her that the bill wasn't paid. So it was those kinds of things going on. When I went back to New York and said to him, "what's up?" My son, he ran. He ran away from the building and he never came back. He left his wife there, the baby there.
I'm standing there. And it's like, what is going on? And from then until now, and it's been like over 15 years, he's never talked about it.
Cláudia: Did he come back? No, never ever.
To his family, to his wife and son,
never ever.
Cláudia: So he disappeared. He disappeared
in as much as from my view, from my being able to get to him. But he's back with his wife. I mean, they hooked back up after I left New York and they got back to California. But he and I've had no, no contact. The only other contact we had was a couple of years after that happened.
The wife shows back up at my front door wanting to know if they could come and stay with us and I told them no. I told my daughter-in-law, I said "you and the girls can stay but my son he is not welcome. I don't trust him." And that's the way it's
Cláudia: been. And how was his childhood and how was your life with him and the family before this happened, before he got married?
Yeah,
he had a good upbringing. He had a, a consistency in his life. He has um a brother and sister twins.
His dad was there. My son was pretty cool. And then when he got into high school that's when all you know what broke loose. It's like an alien dropped something in his head. Who's this guy? Not my son kind of thing. Oh, when he got, I think about 16, 17, he decided he wanted to run away from home. So I told him, "you don't have to run.
We can find someplace for you to go. You don't have to be out in the street," but he didn't want to do it that way. He wanted to be out in the street. There's nothing I could do about that,
Cláudia: but pray for him. I see. So, if you are asking me this, it is because this is still a problem inside of you, and it's okay, and it's absolutely normal.
It would be abnormal if you would not even think about that. Anyhow, because of the resonance that happens between family members even more than like regular friendships or your other human beings, family members have a strong strong resonance more for genetic resonance.
And this is, this happens even in an unconscious level because you, your DNA is energetically very much linked to his. It is as if you were inside of him and he is inside of you somehow in your life, in your psychological life. So very simply for today, this is just a very simple conversation. I will say that this would need much, much deeper conversation and reflection.
But I can ask you something today that might be helpful. When you think about your son, what are the free and spontaneous thoughts and ideas that come to your mind intuitively about him? Just in a few words, not an explanation.
Okay. I think of him, I see him as the little boy sitting on the sofa reading the Los Angeles Times, the times we would go out and play when he was a little boy in his red wagon.
And then as a young kid, he was fun to be with.
So I think about those things, and I miss that.
Cláudia: So this little boy, what do you associate him with?
Fun times. Fun. Times we had together as mother and son, hanging out, teaching him things, because he's a very smart guy, very smart as a kid.
Cláudia: So he was fun, he was smart, something else? Fun, smart? Loving. Loving.
And helpful, as kids are.
You know, he had a brother and sister. He's five years older than them, so they were like his kids, you know, to hear him tell it. And being around the family.
Cláudia: So this is his true self. Yes. And you
know that. Yes.
Cláudia: This is his true self. Now, and these things that came to him in his adolescence, in his teens or when he was in high school, these influences, what do you associate with this change in his personality?
I
give it up to going into his adolescence that for some kids what we do, we, we kind of go a little crazy.
But I didn't think he was out of control
Cláudia: crazy, okay. A kind of craziness, the
kind of craziness when he decided he wanted to crawl up in the crawl space in the ceiling of the gym and drop down from one of the classrooms and steal stuff out of the lockers for his team. And he got caught. That's when things started going south.
Cláudia: And these behaviors that he developed, like stealing things and losing his job and running away, what do you think about? About that? Yeah.
I don't. Understand why he would do the things he was doing. And in trying to talk with him, he never gave a reason or how he was feeling about what he was doing. So I really don't know what to attribute that to.
I really don't.
Cláudia: Okay, so let's go step by step. He had some change, okay, change from something very positive to negative, from very good to a kind of evil behaviors.
Yes.
Cláudia: Okay. So considering that, through him, you can understand you better, Can you see that sometimes in your inner life, this loving, smart, helpful side of you can be somehow denied or damaged for some reason that you don't understand?
Yes.
Cláudia: That in a smaller scale, much smaller scale, you stop being smart, loving, and helpful, and you don't know why. That in a smaller scale, you have this inside of you.
Do you perceive this? Yes. Okay.
And I know why. I know why, Dr. Pacheco. You know why? I was a hell raiser. I was a hell raiser. Razor as a kid when I decided I wanted to do something I was respectful but I'd find a way to get done what I wanted to do the way I wanted to do it. And being an only child I could get away with a lot of stuff, goodness.
So in some
Cláudia: way your son is a little similar to you, maybe more, for, for sure more than you in this behavior.
But somehow he has some resonance with this inside of you. A hell raiser, I can see
that, I can see that. I remember doctor one day telling myself you're gonna have to conform. You don't want to do it like everybody but there's some things you're gonna just have to buckle down and do the way it's supposed to be done. I remember telling myself that and switching over to that side and stopped fighting so much.
And
Cláudia: you feel sorry for him and you feel sorry for yourself too because your true self is very smart, very fun. You can be like a funny person, very loving, and very helpful, but it's not always that you decide to be like this. So this causes you a kind of sorrow, unconscious. Unconsciously you feel like sorrow for you, for your son, because this happens.
Now, let's go a little bit further then. We, as you know, have a method and the theory of psychoanalysis that encompasses the spirituality.
We don't have a religion. We are not a religious group, but we consider spirituality in science. So, what normally psychoanalysts call unconscious and destructive tendencies coming from the unconscious, we see more destructive tendencies, intentions, ideas, behaviors coming from the transcendental level, which is trans-types, as we call it. Jung would call archetypes. And we understand that there are many energies and beings and interactions, interactions going on in the spiritual level.
This is considered by all religions, all of them, including all philosophies. Even Eastern philosophies consider an interaction between dead people, between angels, between demons, you know, because we cannot still put this in the material format. This doesn't mean that they are not real, because the invisible is even bigger and stronger than what you can sense with your senses.
And bringing this to your analysis now with me, I would call your attention to this reality, to this interaction that goes on between the transcendental world and our earthly world. We are united by the transcendental level. So we are very much influenced by the good side and the bad side, the healthy side and the crazy side, the evil side. And they are very active, very attentive, and they enjoy very much destroying ourselves and qualities because they are very envious, very, very envious.
"I'm not saying jealous. I'm saying envious and destructive." So I would like you to consider that what happened to your son, such a brilliant boy, that he could have been drawn to this evil energetic side of life. And he's suffering because of this. You can be sure. Even if he doesn't say this to you, even if he doesn't acknowledge that much, the suffering, but the suffering is there as your suffering is there because he is like you and you are like him.
So for you, it's not okay. For you and for him, this is not okay. Maybe it will take a longer time. Maybe it will take, I don't know what, but this must be, like, thought about and reflected and think about because this is a sorrow you need to acknowledge, too. Don't pretend you are not sorry. This is not healthy for you. It's like covering up with a Band-Aid of serious injury, okay?
Okay. So this is the first talk. If you want to come back someday, we can be in therapy for the world together again.
Okay. Okay.
Cláudia: You are very welcome. And there are millions of mothers in the same situation as you are. You are not alone. Millions.
That I know. I know that. But my question, doctor, is what can I do? I don't know what to do.
I've done all I can do, including the prayer, praying. Yeah. So I just have to ride it out.
Cláudia: Well, first thing.
And the sad part about it is when we try to talk, he lies about everything. I can't stand to even talk to him on the phone. It just cuts me up. How you doing, honey? And he'll give you some kind of an answer that has nothing to do with how he's doing. I'm exaggerating it to make my point. But if I can't even talk to him, how do I get through?
Yeah. So I just shut it down. I
Cláudia: can tell you there is no easy solution. This is an implication of many variables from many aspects. And his free will and your free will, your will is to get back together with him. And you need to respect his free will. I don't know. You don't know. His free choice. His free will. Now another thing that I can tell you, what you are doing today with me is very strong energetically.
You're dealing with this with me today, you are dealing with very strong energies and this will absolutely benefit your son and many other mothers that are in the same situation as you are.
Even if they don't listen to you, they don't listen to our podcast, but there is this resonance, energetic resonance, when mothers that are in similar situation as you are, they can grasp, they can receive your learning, your energy, your consciousness. So it's very beneficial already. And think about this in the moment, don't jump to a, an easy solution. Go deeper in this feeling, go deeper in this understanding and it will benefit your son and other mothers.
Okay, wow, okay, so here we are, okay,
I received
Cláudia: that, thank you, thank you, bye-bye. Heating
Richard: through consciousness is a podcast about your mental health and how unresolved inner problems impact us in every area of our lives. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and write me at joneshealing at gmail.com. Love to help you. Talk to you next time on Healing Through Consciousness.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
