Richard Lloyd Jones: They've been used for centuries as doorways to mystical experiences and new levels of consciousness. They've been ingested to help escape the seemingly insupportable problems of everyday life. They've been tacitly encouraged by governments to assuage the misery of underpaid factory workers. Can there be any new dimensions to consider regarding drugs? I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and today I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Altered states of consciousness.
The truth behind illegal drugs. First, thanks for all your emails and requests for Norberto Keppe's book on the pathology of power, something we'll be considering in today's program, since the world of drugs walks hand in hand with those who stroll the corridors of power. So I'm going to continue giving away Keppe's book this week because it directly analyzes through a keen psychological lens the sickness that exists in the human psyche and which is exacerbated in those who lust for power.
It's great reading. Just email me for your free copy of this landmark book, rich at richjonesvoice.com. Back in the mid-1980s, Cláudia Pacheco was researching deeply into the connection between drug trafficking and power. She wasn't the only person to write about this, of course, but she was the first to apply Keppe's psychological analysis to the area. And this lent her research and intellectual heft missing from other writers on the subject.
And because of this, her research had a bomb-like effect on the corridors of power. Actually, all of Keppe's work did. He and Cláudia were finally arrested at the peak of their activities in the United States for trumped-up customs charges. Right after they'd been developing an extraordinary campaign to try to make Americans conscious of the decadence their country was entering because of the very maliciously intentioned policy of Reaganomics, a disaster for the U.S.
And the rest of the world who followed. You'll hear Cláudia make reference to this arrest in this podcast. Keppe and Pacheco's research into the pathology of power led them to directly confront governmental involvement around the world in many illegal activities. Shortly after this, interestingly enough, the Iran-Contra affair broke out. This is pretty incendiary stuff. And today, Cláudia Pacheco joins us to look at all this more closely.
Cláudia, we had a great email from a listener in South Carolina in the U.S., regular listener to our podcast. And he was responding to something that Selma had said in her podcast about teenagers, how these teenagers who are doing lots of drugs, that this is opening a sort of a vortex for bad spirits to come in. And he asked this question. He said, on the subject of drugs, I classified them into two categories.
Mind-numbing drugs, cocaine, tobacco, heroin, alcohol, etc. And mind-opening drugs, peyote, cannabis, mushrooms, etc. While the former, the mind-numbing drugs, have been found to be dangerous and highly addictive, The latter, the mind-opening drugs, have been used for centuries and show no signs of addiction or even lasting health problems with repetitious use. Does Dr. Keppe acknowledge this distinction between these drugs? If so, what is Dr.
Keppe's view of the spirit worlds that the mind-opening drugs seem to unlock?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: I would speak about my own ideas. I would not speak about Dr. Keppe's thoughts on this because I'm not totally sure of how he would answer the question. But I can guess what he would answer. And we have to go behind in history and see the first research of Freud.
And I don't know if you are aware that Freud used cocaine, and some of the psychoanalysts used cocaine to open the consciousness and the minds of their patients. All these experiments, besides hypnosis, which is a technique to open the subconscious mind, in not a spontaneous way. It's more something that is forced, artificially induced. But let me tell you something, Richard. The experiments that Freud did proved to be ineffective and sometimes even dangerous because we have more an artificial unconsciousness which is induced by our censorship, it's fabricated by our censorship.
So we hide from our consciousness what we are not prepared or not willing to see. So we hide consciousness, important, extremely important consciousness by our own envy. We don't want to see them. So we hide them or by censorship, by intolerance, by intransigence, what we call theomania. We want everything perfect. We don't see problems. We idealize everything, the world, myself. So I would not bear seeing some problems, true problems in myself or in people, bad intentions, vices.
Richard: I'm not quite as good as I think I am.
Cláudia: Yes, and sometimes things that are very negative, like perversions and ill desires, and this Freud wanted to uncover. These ill intentions, these perverted intentions that people carried in their inner selves, focus in more in sexual things. We don't focus that much in sexual things because sexual perversions are more symptoms for other more serious pathologies, more based on envy, extremely arrogance, megalomania, etc., etc.
Richard: Ingratitude, all of these.
Cláudia: Ingratitude, etc. And exploitation, for instance, and evil intentions towards our fellow man, destruction of our world. So, what he realized, Freud realized, was that people were not prepared to see things in their inner selves yet. And if they were forced to do so, they became sometimes psychotic. This unleashed some crisis, psychological, psychotic crisis in them. And that's what happens frequently.
People that take drugs with the intention to open their consciousness artificially, many times they are unable to go back to the true, real reality of the everyday world, where you have to work and be in contact. And there are many revelations people can't handle. And they just break down their ego.
Richard: Yeah, we saw this in the 60s, I think. Certainly I saw this with a lot of guys who were experimenting with LSD, these bad trips that they had.
And it was very difficult for them to come back from these nightmares that they were having, these terrible visions. So this idea of mind opening, this is something that we should just talk about in this a little bit more. Is it really mind opening?
Cláudia: It could be. It could be, Richard. But as I said, this is more opening the neurons, artificially open the neurons and bringing to the surface material that is unconscientized and that we should normally see that.
But, Jones, when you hypnotize a person, he can name to you everything that he saw in a fraction of minutes or seconds when he entered a place. For instance, you enter a person in a room, and then he stays there for more than one minute. And then you hypnotize the person, and he will name you everything that is inside the room. Things that he could never, ever notice in a sort of conscious, awakened kind of state.
So, we perceive much more things than we acknowledge because of our decrease in consciousness. So, this decrease in our consciousness is the result of these pathologies that Keppe mentions in his work. So the more we open our censorship, the more we deal with our censorship, the more we open our consciousness in a natural way. So I'll see more and more and stand more and more.
So this is much more therapeutic or more effective because this is an opening with no side effects or no return most of
Richard: the times. And I think too, Cláudia, what's important to say about this is many times people who are using these mind-opening experiences, they're looking for like a spiritual, mystical experience of themselves, that I'm part of the universe in some vaster way.
And what you're talking about is more the consciousness of how we block ourselves.
Cláudia: Yes, and block this consciousness because we should be in contact. We are transcendental beings. So it's not normal not to perceive all these beings. There are many children that they see spirits, they see angels, they see like spirit of so-called dead people. They can see things that we cannot see anymore because of this incredible...
Trees of censorship. And sensorialism. There are people who keep seeing things as, like, during their lives. So they are so-called mediums or paranormal or sometimes psychotics. Because the psychotic people, they see things that are most of the time real in this transcendental world. Good and mostly bad spirit. And they don't know how to handle that reality. And society is not prepared to handle this too.
So society censors. If a patient goes to a psychiatrist and tells, I'm seeing and hearing things that are apparently non-existent or sensorially non-existent, but they know they are totally tangible in transcendental terms. So the psychiatrist or these health professionals, they tend to label this person as a psychotic and they give them a lot of drugs to cover up that awareness. So, my idea, Jones, is that when the person is willing to uncover consciousness or open their minds, they are more curious and have more this intention.
Because if they want to go through this, they must go through this like through virtue. Being virtuous, being loving, being ethical. So this is like the door opening to transcendence. It's looking for a link with God through the resonance with Him in terms of doing what He taught us to do, to be ethical, to do good to other people, and to give our lives totally to beauty, truth, and goodness.
Richard: I think this is very beautiful, what you're talking about now, the resonance with goodness, which is a consciousness thing. It's not a question of, like, taking the drug to open us to that, but it's about doing it in our daily life. And this is extremely challenging for the human being because we're so inverted.
Cláudia: Yes, and we shouldn't live this, Richard, in our everyday life.
This should be our everyday life. Let's come
Richard: back a little bit to talk a bit more about drugs, not about the mind opening
Cláudia: part but about the the drug industry mind closing, the
Richard: mind closing. Yes, the drug industry. You
Cláudia: wrote a book
Richard: a number of years ago, yeah, called the American Drug Multinational. Yeah, and I I was reading an article from this on the establishment, how drugs are the establishment's weapon to numb social consciousness.
The moment I read that title, I remembered Timothy Leary, who said, turn on, tune in, drop out, leave the society, don't have any part of the society. Drugs have very much been used to take human beings away from reality, haven't they? Who
Cláudia: would be mostly benefited by this? The
Richard: powerful people who would benefit from the stupidity or the unawareness of the general population.
Cláudia: Yes. Jones, if you remember the 60s, there was an increasing awareness, especially in those intellectual centers in the United States, Europe, and even the so-called third world. So people were increasing more and more their consciousness, naturally increasing, seeing that there was something very wrong in the way society was organized and the way people was led to be slaves. The hypocrisy, the mosque, exploitation, slavery, all these values, like having more than being, and war, Vietnam War, and all those wars in the name of American flag and the nation and God.
Democracy. Democracy. And people started to realize this was a huge fake. The war benefited the economic powerful, those who built weapons, those who were in charge of things and political power. So they started to revolt. There were very dangerous centers for those people, like growing fast artists, intellectuals, young people. This is a recipe that CIA and those secret services dislike the most because people who think and act, they are dangerous because they bring, especially artists and intellectuals and philosophers, they bring the whole nations behind them.
So the big revolutions were being planned, peaceful revolutions, intellectual revolutions. There are the most dangerous ones. So what did CIA do? So one of the projects they organized was the Bluebird Project.
Richard: Yeah, I think this is very important to understand, Cláudia. Most of us know nothing about the Bluebird Project. This was a mind control research set up by the CIA back in the 60s, I believe, using drugs, both prescription and hallucinatory, to create new identities. To induce amnesia. To insert hypnotic access codes in the subject's minds, like the Manchurian Candidate movie showed. Creating multiple personalities. Creating false memories.
This was a very nefarious and ill-intentioned project.
Cláudia: So they organized a way to neutralize them. And also, not only that, but taking LSD, even taking heroin, even marijuana, take people away from reality most of the time. I
Richard: think this is important, that we don't need anything that takes people away from reality. We need to try to see reality. You talked about in a podcast a couple of weeks ago about return to paradise, how we have the paradise here but our problem is we're rejecting it.
So we don't need to create a paradise. We need to see how we reject the paradise that we already have. This is a question of consciousness. So
Cláudia: you see, Richard, having all those artists, students, young people, idealistic people being drugged. So at the same time that they numbed their consciousness, their perception, their smartness, their capacity to speak to normal people in society, they started to speak just for themselves. And they closed up in those groups.
So at the same time, they numbed their mentality, their capacity, their mental capacity. They made them hooked in drugs, so they would even pay for their destruction. It was a twofold kind of malignant evil plan. They would have them numbed, neutralized like psychotics, numbed by those pills that they give people now. It's a kind of numbing their minds too. So not only heroin or LSD, but all those psychotropics are numbing the minds of people.
So they did this, they hooked them on drugs, so they would even have a lot of profits out from this. So it was a very smart plan. And they finished with all those ideals of the 60s, lost. Everything is lost in this way, because the profits of heroin and all these drugs increased tremendously. Yeah,
Richard: it's important to say that many of the profits from drugs go through the American banking system.
Oh, this
Cláudia: is for sure.
Richard: This is for
Cláudia: sure. The major part of the profits that American banks do, it's this money laundering thing.
Richard: Somebody suggested it's between $500 billion and $1 trillion a year. Yeah,
Cláudia: this is huge. Enormous. And if they would legalize drugs, the use of drugs, then all this would come to the surface, and they would know what is really behind this profits in banking.
Cláudia,
Richard: you said something in your book that I found very interesting. You said drugs have been used by the state since the Industrial Revolution. Yeah.
Cláudia: Do you have some examples? Yeah, in England. Because this is wonderful. Do you remember this war, the China War? England attacked China because the Chinese…
Richard: The opium war.
Cláudia: Yeah, the opium war. So, the industrial establishment or the owners of these huge industries, they had to give this kind of opium to children to stay quiet in home when their slaves went to work.
So, their children had to get opium to stay quiet. So, they quiet down. Now
Richard: we have television and computers, but… Yes.
Cláudia: So, they quiet down all these workers, people from labor, using drugs. So when China tried to stop selling opium to England, they came with cannons to reestablish this. And this, Richard, this happened in Iraq war. War. Kuwait War. Afghanistan War.
Richard: Because
Cláudia: the Taliban group is very fanatic in terms of religion and so they applied the law in Afghanistan not to plant, to grow papolas anymore, poppies anymore and to produce opium anymore.
So it was a decrease of 85% of production. After the United States invaded Afghanistan and took away the Taliban, so this opium came back in 85% production.
Richard: It's now 96% of the world's production. It's very interesting because they took
Cláudia: the Taliban out of power, and the only area of Afghanistan that the Taliban could not control were the northern provinces. And who was put in, and those are drug lords directly, who was put in power in Afghanistan after the United Nations coalition invaded, read the United States, who was put in power was the Northern Alliance.
They're drug lords running Afghanistan. Yes, that's right. Totally.
Richard: That's right, that's right. Same thing happened in Vietnam. There was the Golden Triangle. Yes. It was all drugs through that
Cláudia: area. Yes, yes. And so we see the big big drug lords fighting the smaller and the small ones. So we see all this theater going on, the DEA theater, so as if they were taking care of this.
They for sure, many people who work for those agencies, many of them are honest and good willing people, they are honest and goodwill, but some people in charge, in key positions, they make sure they have no competition.
Richard: Yeah, this is very true.
Cláudia: So what happened to Noriega, a light of bush in the past? He was quiet down.
Richard: Yeah, he was completely shut down.
They invaded Panama to get rid of
Cláudia: Noriega. Yeah, just to quiet him down.
Richard: You know, well, I don't know if I should say this, but many of the CEOs of the biggest banks, Citibank, Chase, Manhattan, they go regularly to Columbia. Why do they go to Columbia? Columbia produces coffee, bananas. There's nothing in Columbia, but there's lots of drugs. And I'm convinced that they're going there to make sure that the illegal drug money gets laundered through the U.S.
Cláudia: Banking system. This is for sure. Now, concerning Columbia, for instance, what happened to Colombia. And this I read in a newspaper, a French newspaper, Le Monde Diplomatique. So, Ignacio Ramonet, a very good journalist, was explaining why Colombia had to start producing a lot of cocaine. Because the commodities market in Chicago, who takes care of the prices of cereals and food, etc.
Richard: Soy, wheat,
Cláudia: coffee.
We knew Colombia's coffee was the main product, the main income for Colombian people was their coffee. So they put down the price, international price of coffee. So they had to turn their agricultural spaces, production
Richard: to cocaine. To make money.
Cláudia: To make money, to survive. This was an explanation of Inas de Ramonet in Le Monde Diplomatique, which is a very credentiated kind of newspaper.
Yeah,
Richard: it's a very prestigious newspaper. It's incredible that the price of coffee is being set in Chicago anyway. I mean, the United States produces zero coffee. It's very interesting, that. You made a comment in your book I found very interesting. You said there are no protests today like there were in the 60s.
Cláudia: No, not at all.
Richard: And you suggest drugs is part of the responsibility for
Cláudia: this.
This is interesting. They could organize a system of repression and surveillance, which is incredible. So now they have internet, they have all those satellites, so they have an incredible, and a lot of weapons. So we are under a total dictatorship, and drugs played an essential role in this situation. Because people now, they are neutralized through drugs. They give profits and at the same time, thinking that they are opposing society and establishment, they take drugs.
And it's right the opposite. When they take drugs, they are being like totally… Lobotomized.
Richard: Lobotomized and
Cláudia: being like… Like sheep. So if we see this enormous destruction going on, this enormous deception, we have to help our fellow man and to bring back the kingdom of God to the planet.
Richard: Because now there are so many kids and adults being totally lobotomized with Ritalin and
Cláudia: Prozac in the United States.
Their lives destroyed, totally destroyed, Jones. And they go to the children since they are in this small, like they are small kids. Kindergarten.
Richard: Yeah, they go to school, so they are after them, so like dragons. It's a huge dragon. The drug problem is a huge dragon that took over humanity. Yeah. Diagnosing the kids with attention deficit disorder and bipolar disorder and all of these fabricated things that can be treated through trilogical analysis very, very, very well.
Let me finish with one quote that you can comment on from your wonderful book, The American Drug Multinational. You said, there's no doubt that drugs have served as one of the most efficient means, if not the most efficient one, to make social and human consciousness go numb, paralyzing the natural development of civilization. Civilization. Oh, I really like that quote. Strong, and I think it shows something about the pathology of power that we talk a lot about.
Do you have any comments? I mean, that sort of stands on its own, but is there anything to add to that?
Cláudia: Yes, I see that this is one of the biggest gifts of the pathological powerful people to humanity and to our children, to us, to our beloved ones. And we see so many of them having their lives destroyed by those evil, powerful people in charge of the world.
So we still count on those who still have some of their human essence left inside of them to get united, to open their eyes and please get united before it's too late.
Richard: And there are many chances to get united. We have books and TV shows and we'll be conducting a couple of congresses next year, 2008, here in Brazil. Write me if you'd like more info on any of this.
Rich at richjonesvoice.com I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. See you next week.
