Richard Lloyd Jones: Hello again from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil. Welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and once again I'm very glad you've tuned into our program here on the Positive World Radio Network. Our fifth program, I think. I'd like you to remember, too, that you can reach me through email if you have any comments, observations, or questions about this admittedly profound and complex work from Dr.
Norberto Keppe. Our email is joneshealing at gmail.com. Believe me, I would love to hear from you.
Well, as we're getting close to Christmas, I thought it would be kind of a good opportunity to try to provide a scientific perspective on this special time of the year. This is something I've recently come to appreciate since learning about Keppe's extraordinary work, which he calls trilogy because it's a reconnection of science with philosophy and theology, which were cut out of the study of science five or so hundred years ago.
This is a pretty noteworthy accomplishment since it allows us to understand theological concepts scientifically. Now, the enormity of this accomplishment will become evident as we go through our program today. I think you'll find it pretty fascinating, as I do. We'll get to that in a moment with our special guest, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, but first some observations. This could be a confusing time of year.
Everything can seem so mundane in one sense. You have jeans, ads that take up the entire sides of buildings, companies throwing credit cards at us, newspapers full of stories. We have difficulties putting into context. We get kind of overwhelmed with the sheer pressure of living in our highly materialistic and competitive societies. So we often don't ask, and we're not encouraged to ask, those essential questions, which I think is important at this time of the year.
Many years ago, I was walking through Gastown in Vancouver. In those days, it was a lot rougher than today. It was close to Christmas, and a street person, a woman, was begging not for money, but for hugs. Wow, that was a strong reminder to the young student that I was at the time that humanity has kind of missed the boat completely. There are a lot of people in that situation.
We're so far from the essential elements of life that we're not even considering them much anymore. We just default to surviving, to getting by from one day to the next, and blotting out the uncomfortableness of the nagging unhappiness we feel with booze or pills or sex or TV or the latest line score, baseball or the Super Bowl games. This strikes deeply to the core of Norberto Keppe's work, actually, which he has stated is to lead the human being back to the goodness for which we were created but have rejected out of our strong psychosociopathology.
So that's why I'd like to begin today. Cláudia, help us, if you can, to make this link once again between theology and science. How has Keppe done this?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: We see now in science, Richard, through experimentation, that these theological concepts or metaphysical concepts, they are correct. And this is so beautiful because we see that we cannot have health if we are not ethical and beautiful, if we do not accept our essence, which Keppe describes as beautiful, truthful, and good, and for glory, and for essential.
Because understanding better or disinverting physics, as Keppe did, using Tesla's discoveries as the basis and some of the other physicists that he quotes in his book, The New Physics. And to understand better human mind and human soul, we need to understand the new physics. The true physics is an incredible science to understand psychology. It's so amazing to see that physics is a mirror of psychology.
Richard: How do you mean that, Cláudia? Because physics is a big field, psychology a big field. How is physics related to psychology in the sense you're talking now?
Cláudia: Because we speak all about energy, Jones. And energy is in itself good, beautiful, and truthful, and powerful, and glorious, and very powerful. And lack of energy, distortion of energy, disturbs, causes pain, destruction, disease, all kinds of energy.
So if I have a negative energy in my psychological field, I will have depressive thoughts, angry thoughts, relativistic thoughts or corrupt thoughts. And if I have this manifestation in my body, I will have unbalance in my hormonal system. My psychoneurohormonal system will be disturbed. I'll lack energy in some areas of my body. My organs will deteriorate, will corrupt. And if we see this in the physical aspect of the energies, electromagnetic waves and even in the mineral field of plants and all this material field you see the same.
Everything, every element has its own vibration. And to be an element you need some amount of vibrations or some kind of vibrations. And
Richard: when you're talking about this energy you're talking about, I know let's say it for our listeners, you're talking about the energy of essential nature, the sensual being actually of God you're talking about.
Cláudia: Yes, I'm speaking not through a penteistic point of view, which some people have, that we are a part of God, like as if we were little gods.
And this is pure theomania. Now, we could say that we are part of God in the sense that if you are a painter and if you do a work of art and if you paint a work of art you are not the same. You don't have the same substance as that painting, but it came from you. So it somehow it belongs to you.
The same thing we are with God. We are his creations. We are we should be his works of art, his best work of arts. But denying this we fell apart. And you're talking now
Richard: about something that I think is important, which is the that there is a like man has a design and a finality. There is a purpose for a human life, not just for us to live and do what we want, but within this greater picture of the universe, if you want to call
Cláudia: it that.
And we are all speaking about vibrations, Jones. If we are in a higher vibration, we are happy, we are enthusiastic, we are in ecstasy, we can be in glory. The biggest or the highest vibration of all is God's vibration. And we can resonate with God if we want so. We could. We can. We still can. If we try to see how does God vibrates, how is his vibration, how is his glory, how is his goodness, how is his infinite beauty, and try to accept that and be interested in that and elevate yourself in his glory.
So it's not glorifying God in an anthropomorphic way of thinking about adoring God, but it's like being in his glory, vibrating with the beauty of universe, the beauty that exists, Because everything that exists is made out of this energy. So the more you vibrate and resonate in a higher level, the happier you feel.
Richard: Yeah, you said that being unethical makes us sick, that being depressed makes us sick, you know, having depressed thoughts.
Cláudia: And being depressive and being negative and angry is unethical. And this is something very unethical. To wake up in the morning in a bad mood and step on other people's feet and say bad words and attack is very unethical. Not to help others when they need help, to be egocentric is unethical.
Richard: Because?
Cláudia: Because we are made out of this energy, which is a good, beautiful, truthful energy.
And if we behave like this, we distort the functioning of our bodies. Our cells do not function in the same way when we are angry. Our hormones don't function in the same way, natural, healthy way. And this is beautiful, because if we want to be healthy, we must have harmony in our actions. So our psychoneuroimmune system and hormonal system, we work accordingly to our thoughts, We work accordingly to our desires, our intentions, and most of all, our actions.
So if we behave in a beautiful way, my health will be beautiful, my life will be beautiful, and this is energy. This is resonance. This is vibration. I cannot be in a bad mood and be happy because happiness is a higher vibration. I cannot reach it. We choose the kind of vibration we want to be. We cannot blame God. As religious people say, God will send you to hell.
God will put you in the purgatory.
Richard: You'll be castigated for this.
Cláudia: No, this is us. We choose the level of vibration we want to live.
Richard: Yes, I was thinking that if we're, as Dr. Keppe said, born to have glory, then we have two things to look at. The first is, what is this glory, which you've described? The second is, why do we deny
Cláudia: it, which is the psychosocial aspect.
Yeah, and here comes
Richard: a lot of psychosocial pathology.
Cláudia: And if you want to vibrate with God, it's so difficult in our society. See now, Christmastime. People give excuses to say, I don't care about Christmas because it became a commercial feast. I don't care about Christmas because Christmas is a religious institution.
Richard: Or it's hypocritical. They only do this this
Cláudia: time. Yeah. But what does it mean, Christmas?
Christmas is a time to remember that we have a chance to be better beings. We have a chance to be loving creatures. We have a chance to revive, to be born again, to resurrect from this kind of low level of life that we have been living in humanity with anger, war, violence, terrorism, starvation, sicknesses, pain, depression.
Richard: Unjust
Cláudia: laws. Unjust laws.
Richard: So many things.
Cláudia: So many hellish things that we create to ourselves. So Jesus, in his message, what he taught is his example. I defeated death, so I am the one who defeated illness, suffering, and death. And you can do the same. You have hope. I'm bringing hope to you that if you do the same as I did and I do, you can have a similar life as I do have.
You can defeat death yourselves. So
Richard: for us to be healthy individually, in our relationships, in our work, in our society, in schools, in education, in every area of life, we have to resonate more with this energy from
Cláudia: God. And this being, he's a being. So if I do not relate to God in a good way, in accepting and grateful and loving way, I will not be able to relate to any other person.
This can be my mother, my father, my husband, my children, who else? Whatever person I cannot relate to. Because my very root, my very beginning with my creator is not a well-resolved relationship.
Richard: This is a beautiful part of Keppe's work because he's completed the circle. Freud, being an atheist, he could stay only at the sexual...
Cláudia: Yes, and Melanie Klein with the mother, but he went further because the clients brought material to do this.
The clients themselves presented a huge problem with God as a being and they they are clear when they say this. But this can be turned. This energy of rejection can, if understood that this is becoming out of our envy, this can turn to the energy of loving and we can start resonating with god and we will be part of his glory and his life.
So this It's, oh, this is wonderful. And this has nothing to do with religious institutions at all. And
Richard: when we do that, then the society automatically returns to the way it should be in the first place. Yes. Because
Cláudia: that's the way it should be, right? And we would have the chance to return to be healthy, to have our bodies working accordingly to what was supposed to be working.
And our planet would go back to normal. And we would be in paradise. Not because of like a miracle. This would be natural.
Richard: The theological blending with the physical, the emotional, the economic, every aspect of life. It's a fascinating consideration, isn't it? We'll have more after this break.
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Richard: We are back on the Positive World Radio Network. This is Richard Lloyd Jones. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Our email, joneshealing at gmail.com. By the way, we have a Facebook page, too. I don't think I've ever told you that, have I? In five programs. Oh, my social networking skills.
My gosh. So you can get us on Facebook, too. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is our group name there. Please register and stay up to date on what we're doing in our program. We'd always love to hear from you. That's always great, of course. In our opening segment, Cláudia was talking a lot about energy, how we understand this, how we understand the energetic experience that Jesus brought through a scientific perspective.
It's a rather fascinating one, a topic I'd like her to continue with a little bit more. So, So, Cláudia, fill us in a little bit more on how you're seeing this, why you think this energetic aspect is so important for the human being.
Cláudia: The power of consciousness and the energy power of life is so big that we could say that what Jesus Christ said, that if you have the Holy Spirit and if you drink poison, nothing will happen to you.
Of course, we cannot take this literally. But in some instances, this is literal, people can be bitten by poisonous snakes and scorpions or sometimes even take poisons by accident and they survive and they continue. Because the immune system and defenses, the psychoimmune defenses are so good, are so big that they can overcome the external attacks. And it's very dangerous for us to just consider the sociopathology.
Sociopathology is here, it's evil, it's dangerous, we should change this. But we have to understand why we did not want to change so far. And we have been condoning with this situation, agreeing with it, and even very little
Richard: people are opening their eyes.
Cláudia: So what is the problem inside each one, each human being, that uh they they don't open their eyes, they prefer, they are inverted, they are upside down.
Human beings are upside down. So we could name some uh reasons already here like identification with the powerful. This is one thing that people normally, they idealize powerful people and they would like to be one of them, being godlike and having all this economic and material power, prestige, money, and not leaving to serve society, to do something good and beautiful and useful for other people.
So this egotistic drive we have, narcissistic, egotistic, theomaniac drive we have, make people idealize and adore, worship people in power.
Richard: Because they are doing exactly that. They're getting what's in it for them at the expense of serving the people.
Cláudia: So they would like to be like them if they could. So they admire, and they not only admire, but they idealize them so much, and they behave as if those people were godlike.
Some artists, what do they do? They sing, they do some performances that are okay, they are beautiful, it's okay, sometimes they do a fantastic work, But they do that for their own glory, most of the time for their own glory and for their own enrichment. And very, very few, even artists, scientists and people that have success in our society, do things really, really to serve society, to serve humanity.
So you can count on the fingers of one hand people that you are sure were doing the good for humanity and they forgot themselves, their egotism. So the identification is something very, very important here because if you speak about a powerful person and if you go there, if you jump to that place, if you succeed to go there and you cannot go there without a lot of corruption in our society. It's impossible for a person to get elected if he or she does not condone with a lot of pacts and corruption to be able to get there.
So if you get there, then you will be, you will perform the same horrors or even worse sometimes. So this identification is very, very frequent. Another thing is that we are so much involved in our envy, voracity, and materialism. And something that Dr. Keppe was telling me this morning, he said, Cláudia, I think that consumerism, this philosophy of consuming, is even worse than taking drugs.
Could them be pharmaceutical drugs or illegal drugs or alcohol, but consuming things, buying things is something that created like a socio-economic drama and in a decay, a terrible decay in the spirit of humanity. Okay,
Richard: I want you to come back to that in a moment, but let me just make a comment about this, Cláudia. This socioeconomic drama you talk about, boy, we can see this being played out all over the place.
We live in this country of Brazil where there's an enormous gap between the richest people in the country and the poorest, where the rich people have everything and some poor people have very, very little. And this enormous drama this creates, I mean, it's one of the reasons we have crime here. I mean, I think if this huge gap wasn't so big, there'd be much less crime here because, you know, somebody who's living in a slum who has nothing, they see some guy with everything.
And so if they don't have any ethics, they say, OK, I'm going to go take it from him. That's the way it works. And the people here, the rich people here, they live behind walls with bulletproof cars, security all over the place. So this drama, that's one aspect of the socioeconomic drama. But the other aspect is this aspect where we feel, I've got to have the latest.
If I don't, then I'm a loser in society, you know. So we create this enormous drama where we're getting, getting, getting all the time. And we don't have any experience with what it means to be in a way. So there's an enormous drama. We're like those hamsters in the cage, you know, running on the wheel, running, running, running, running, running to get more, more, more, more, more.
And feeling less and less satisfied. So we have this enormous socioeconomic drama fueled, as you said, by our envy, our voracity, our materialism, and this decay in the spirit of humanity. Boy, that's very true. I was talking at the very beginning of the program about that experience with the woman in Gastown, street woman, a woman living on the street who was begging around Christmastime not for money but for hugs.
So, you know, this is going back now. This is back in the 70s, I think. So we can see that we've deteriorated a lot in our socioeconomic situation, largely because of this question of consumerism. I think your point is well taken there. And what is it that materialism has caused? Why has this materialism caused this huge decay in the spirit of human beings?
How do you understand that?
Cláudia: Because consuming gives a lot of pleasure and sensation that you have. You are satisfying your envy, you are satisfying your egotism, you are satisfying sometimes your wish for power and narcissism. So we lost, we lost so much in our human condition, in our spirit, in our consciousness, our capacity to to do a critical analysis of things. So we lost the notion of good in evil because, a lot because of consumerism.
So the society of consumption, which is very much linked to the senses, pleasure and pathology, and pathology, egotism, as I mentioned before. So this kind of philosophy and attitude made us possibly lose what we had of most valuable, which was the link with transcendence, with aesthetics, with goodness, truth, with God. So we are now blinded people, walking in darkness, because we don't see more than one meter ahead of us.
Richard: More than our bank account in front of us,
Cláudia: that's right. More our debts in our credit cards.
Richard: Yeah. So Dr. Keppe was saying very recently that when we look at the sickness in the human being, we have to see that the sickness is actually not just in the body. It's in the soul. Mostly. Mostly in the soul.
Cláudia: It's starting in the soul.
Richard: Yeah. And so it's like some corruption of these values. And Dr. Keppe has a beautiful graphic that I use many times in the classroom on the neurosis of having versus the sanity of being. And it's very graphic when you show these two circles with all these words on the neurosis of having. We have awards and tributes and possessions and fame and all of those things.
And in the sanity of being, we see honesty, being a good person, being kind, being dedicated. So it's almost like a complete opposite. And you see that our world is almost totally oriented to having. So not only is it a material consumption, but it's like using up our spirit too. We're like consuming our spirit or destroying our spirit in this nature to have, have, have, have all the time.
Cláudia: So the fun of life, the quality of life, the enjoyment of life was lost. Because all the enjoyment we can have is psychological and spiritual. We can have a body pleasure, but happiness is very little to do with body pleasure. So all the conditions or the attitudes or the elements that can produce, can enhance the feeling of happiness, fulfillment being accomplished, so this do not belong to have, to the world of having and material things and consuming at all.
So you see, for instance, now we are arriving to, we are getting closer and closer to Christmas time. And we see that children lost the chance to have that beautiful spirit we used to have. I am 61, so I still had beautiful Christmas time. And our parents had even more. And if you read some old tales of Christmas that were written by Charles Dickens and some other good writers, it was so different.
Oh, my gosh. The spirit they had and what they lived, it was so beautiful. So now you don't have even a chance to approach a child and tell him and speak about Jesus Christ. What is Christmas for? What does this date represent? And so how much enjoyment, fulfillment they could have in a Christmas Eve if they would be in touch with this idea of God being born here and God's child and what did he do when he came here and all this story, the angels and the magicians.
How do you say them? Os magos, os tres eis magos.
Richard: The three wise men. Yeah.
Cláudia: So those storytellers have so beautiful Christmas tales. But if you read this for the children now presently, they don't have even time or conditions or calmness to sit and to hear. They
Richard: are so agitated because of this society of consumption and internet and cell phones and buying and all this.
Boy, did we lose something, Cláudia. Is that ever true? You know, we put up the decorations, we send out the cards with the heartfelt wishes for peace and goodwill. We sometimes sing the songs, but the desires for peace on earth and remembrances of the real meaning have long been obscured, haven't they, in the frustration of finding a blasted parking spot. Joyous Christmastime is not much of that anymore, unfortunately.
So the true meaning of Christmas, we're going to get into a little bit more in our program here today. I remember my youth actually waiting for the Christmas spirit, like some feeling that would come from the outside. I understand this much differently today because it's not something that just suddenly kicks in. Suddenly, we used to sit around waiting for it to kick in, but it's something that we participate in as we've been talking about in our program.
There could be things that happen along the way that help us, that stimulate it. But, you know, it's something that really comes from our own participation in it. But here's what I have noticed. Around about 6 p.m. On Christmas Eve, when all the stores close, then you start to feel the peace that comes with Christmas. But have you noticed, by about 2 o'clock the next day, Christmas afternoon, everybody's starting to get restless and anxious and agitated again?
Have you felt that coming in? I mean, have you felt that? Coming On. It's like we get too bored. I think actually that's why they instituted Christmas Day NBA games. Do you know that? So around 2 o'clock or so, it starts to get agitated. Then we have the Christmas dinner. We calm down a little bit and have fun with our family. But the next day, Boxing Day in Canada, December 26th, is the biggest shopping day in the country.
So it shows that we're not so comfortable with this feeling of peace. Let's explore a little bit more on our program in a few moments. Back in just a few moments on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head here on the Positive World Radio Network. Don't go away.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We are back on the Positive World Radio Network.
This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, originating from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
That's T-R-I-L-O-G-I-A.ws. Our email, joneshealing at gmail.com. We're discussing expansively, I might add, the true meaning of Christmas and human beings and spirit and spirituality, and looking at how we've lost this in our movement to cut out spirituality from our scientific and academic institutions.
This has happened gradually but steadily over the past 2,500 years already, particularly in the last 500 or so. 2,500 years ago, there was a rather important occurrence in philosophy, and it's a prime example of why I've named this program Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, because what happened way back there with the Greeks is influencing us big time today. And how many of us have studied Greek philosophy?
We're thinking with Greek philosophers' heads without knowing about it. The battle was between Aristotle and Plato. In its essence, Aristotle believed in universal ideas and concepts being infused in the human structure. His student, Aristotle, said, ah, what does that old guy know? Time for some modern thinking. He said, we learn about reality through our senses, what we can measure and see and weigh and taste and so forth.
Nothing comes to the mind that doesn't pass first through the senses, is how Aristotle put it. This was a big distortion in our understanding of how things work. It took a while for it to really get embedded, but very soon it was embedded in the theological and particularly scientific view that makes up our modern vision of how reality works. I'd like to get a little bit more metaphysical in this section of our program in discussing our break from our true essence.
And so, joining Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco for the next couple of sections, I've invited our co-inventor of the Keppe Motor, Cesar Soós, to discuss metaphysically what's happening with us today and how does our reduced view of reality brought by Aristotle affect us day to day? Cláudia Pacheco, maybe you could start there and let's see where that takes us.
Cláudia: Well, what we see presently in all the places is this mentality of commerce.
Commerce dominated the world. The merchants took the power and they lead or they give the tune to everything in our lives. And what we see is that money is invading more and more our lives in a negative sense. Money should be used and enjoyed by all of course and make our the quality of life better for everybody. But in reality money the way it is used by the merchants has been a means to to make life more difficult, to enslave, to exploit, to corrupt, to imprison, to make economy more difficult, to put obstacles in making The Wealth of Nations, in the improvement of science, of arts, of civilization.
Money, the way it has been used, it has been blocking civilization to develop on the opposite. It has deteriorated the quality of life of humanity. And when we speak about Christmas we all have this inner sense, this inner intuition or feeling that this would be the time to have good feelings, to be happy, to share, to love, to be grateful, to enjoy the beauty and the wonders of creation, because this is the day when God was born here among ourselves.
So this is an incredible good news, because humanity at that time was so, so degraded in its psychogenetics that it was necessary that god son would come and be born as a human being. So coming back to the I the main idea, all humans have in their inner essence, the inner selves, This notion that Christmas should be time of joy, should be time of peace, of communication, forgiveness and enjoyment.
Now, money, the way it has been used, has been corrupting this well-being. Commerce. If you go to any shops, you see thousands, millions of people agitated, feeling horrible, drunk sometimes, drugged many times, anxious because they need to buy and buy and buy and buy. They obey, they just serve, they are like robots working for the commerce, to give more profits, to consume, to consume the planet, to extinguish the resources.
And does this bring any satisfaction? Of course not, because our essence is not idealized by our creator to be consumers. We are here to accomplish. We are here to create, to be original, to continue the work of God. We are here to be similar to Him and to accomplish, to imitate Him in what He did.
Richard: You know, Cláudia, Dr. Keppe says in his wonderful book, Glorification, which is really his homage to God, He says, no matter what happens, the human being strongly resembles his creator with his beauty, goodness, and veracity.
And no matter what man may do, he will never cease to be magnificent in his origin.
Cláudia: That's right. So we have to go back to the meaning of Christmas, to the true meaning of Christmas, which is the big, big news that we have now a chance to go back to our original magnificence, as you said, and to the original glory that we were meant for.
Now we have a big chance to start doing better in our lives. This year was difficult and the year to come it will be more difficult in terms of finances, even more than in terms of work, because we have everything to do in front of us. Everything is still to be done. So many incredible, incredible accomplishments, developments, industry, agriculture, even commerce in a good sense, education, science, arts, everything in civilization is to be developed.
So we have so much work to do. And as I said, some people in power have been using money as a means to hold back civilization. And this comes from their intention, which is unconscious most of the time and for most of them, a theomaniac and envious, arrogant intention to dominate the world as if they were the gods of the world in a negative sense, against the true similarity to God.
So we have everything to develop. We have here Cesar at our side and he's just bringing a chance with the Capimotor development. He is bringing, as Roberto Frascari is bringing, his team of technicians are bringing a new chance to develop an incredible industry of eco, natural, and even metaphysical kind of technology. Isn't that true, Cesar?
Cesar Soós: Yes, this is very true. The science of Dr.
Keppe is amazing because it gives excellency to the spirit over matter. And this couldn't be different in the field of physics. Physics traditionally thinks that matter creates energy. In Dr. Keppe's size he puts the other way round. He sees energy creating matter. So all the machines should be developed under the principle that matter should capture energy from space, from the cosmos, should capture the energy emanated by the creator.
Because the entire universe is energy, is free energy for all of the creatures in this universe to use freely, with abundance, with no privation. And so our technology should head towards this orientation. We should stop destroying the planet. We should stop destroying the species. We should stop destroying the seas and the waters, the air, the planet itself, because we are inverted. We are inverted in our way of thinking.
We give primacy to matter over the soul, even. We think we have to have things to be happy and not to leave what we are. We should start thinking that our action, what we do, is the most important thing in our lives for us to be happy. If we are unhappy, it's because we are not using the talents, the gifts God gave to us for free.
We are thinking about being someone else. We are thinking about being someone we are not.
Richard: So let me just interrupt you here, Cesar, because it's a beautiful way of your writing here. And Dr. Keppe has talked about this directly as being pathological, not the essence of who we are, that we're inverted because of our theomania. Dr. Keppe talks about this in glorification again, that he had the idea in the beginning that God meant us to suffer, that he meant us to have a difficult life, that we would know God through struggle and hardship.
But this is not true, is it, Cláudia? This is our pathology that causes us to be inverted from the truth of ourselves.
Cláudia: Ah, and this is an ancient problem for humanity. Even the oriental philosophies, they praise suffering. They cultivate suffering. This morning I was attending a patient. She's a Japanese. And she has this tradition, this Japanese tradition, which is to have an altar and praise the soul of the dead members of the family, the ancient members of the family.
But they end up not by communicating with these souls or these ancient family members. But they end up by cultivating all the struggle, the pain, the conflicts that were, that that were in the family in the previous generations. So I asked her this morning, what do you associate the family philosophy, the attitude inside your family. And she said it's horrible, it's total suffering.
But if I don't follow them I feel guilty. So I told her, okay. So what you are saying is that you want to be loyal. You think it's necessary to be loyal to suffering and to pain. And this is what you bring to your son. This philosophy and not spirituality and not cultivating the memory of your ancestors, you are cultivating the notion of suffering and pain.
And this morning I saw another patient which said, Oh, everybody's so happy this Christmas and this New Year's Eve, but I associate the Christmas and New Year's Eve to suffering. And I said, why? Because my mother died in Christmas Day and my father died in New Year's Eve. So when these feasts are approaching, I keep questioning what horrible will happen. So I said okay, so what do you associate or what happened to your mother and father.
And she said suffering, horrible pain. And I said okay, so you are saying that you are very much linked and hoping for suffering, pain, because you could associate the death of your father and your mother with beauty. Because imagine what a beautiful day is to die in Christmas day or in New Year's Eve. Everybody's going to die. So it's something that we have to go through.
So why have this notion? And so you must be loyal to suffering. And she said, yes, this is right. I always think that if I am not suffering, somehow I feel guilty. And then I said, I asked her, but what do you associate suffering with? And she said, Lucifer. So we are being loyal to Lucifer, to these demonic energies when we are loyal to suffering.
And so many religious people do this. They are cultivating suffering, pain, necessity to be sick and trying to find a meaning in sickness, which is the denial, the denial of life, the denial of truth, the denial of happiness. We are sick people. This is what we have to see and to accept. But this is a decayed condition that we should acknowledge in order to raise up our energies.
There is much
Richard: more to come.
Be right back.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: And we're back once again, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network, Richard Lloyd Jones, continuing our conversation now with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and Cesar Soós.
Cláudia, Cesar said in our weekly international teleclass last Saturday that he felt Dr. Keppe's work of Analytical Trilogy was to free us from hell, from this suffering that we create. In energetic terms, as I understand this, we break the link with the goodness, truth, and beauty, which form all of the true reality of the universe. This means, I guess, that we break from God, and this is our big problem.
Let's talk about that process for a moment.
Cláudia: Cesar was speaking about energy. We have essential energy in us. We are essentially energy. We are energy. We are energy. We are energy that emanated from God. So it's interesting to see this question about energy going on, isn't it? Lack of energy, people charging for energy, people looking for other means of energy, and everything is energy.
All around us, we have abundance of energy. So what is this idea that energy is missing in the world, that we have to pay for energy, that if we don't pay for the energy, we are going to die, we cannot work, we cannot survive. Everything is energetic, it's energy. So what is this delusional idea that energy should be paid, that we should, it's controlled, it's lacking, it's an absence of energy.
We are all energy, energetic beings, energetic nature, everything is energy. So what, how come people don't realize this, that it's not some um sources of nuclear powers or some um wind wind power hydroelectric things and you pay and you pay hundreds and billions of dollars and if you don't
Richard: pay your energy bill you're gonna freeze to death in
Cláudia: the winter. So what delusional this is, because everything is energy in the in the universe, we have all energy around.
So is the misuse of energy. We do, that is the question, the misuse of energy that powerful people do, even depriving us from the true sources of energy. But we also, because we are stupid, we have all energy around us and we have many means to use this energy, starting from ourselves. So if we deny our energetic nature, we decay and decay, we get sick sooner than we should, we die and we are not supposed to die.
So the good news that Jesus brought when he was born here was that through psychogenetics, through our RNA, through the true habits, doing good, beautiful and truthful things to our neighbor as we want to do to ourselves. So being honest, being ethical, being good, this is the way to be energetic and have health. So it's all upside down. It's all upside down, even the notion of energy in the world.
And this is what we are bringing good news to everybody who has a good intention, good news, because we will have other chances to deal with reality now than before. All pathologies are the blockage, the denial, the distortion of the true energy, which is good, beauty and truth, goodness, beauty and truth inside of ourselves. This seems to be theoretical but it's very practical.
If we apply this notion in our everyday life, if we put good action in front of anything, we will see many mistakes. Because if you want to do something good, Richard, you will find a lot of difficulties, starting from social structure. In society, there are not so many chances to be good. Some volunteer work. Some Humanitarian Associations. No, this is not the...
This is okay. But the real thing is to be good in essential terms. Being honest. Being truthful. Whatever you do, do it with good intention. And this is very difficult. And we have a lot of pathology. And as Keppe says, even our errors, our mistakes are important. Very important. Because they give even more glory to perfection. Every mistake shows that there is perfection.
Otherwise, as Cesar said, there would be no mistakes. If there would be no perfection, there would be no mistakes. So the consciousness of mistakes are truly, truly, truly important. Capio used to say, no, Capio, no, I think it was St. Augustine that said that The most perfect saint would commit at least seven severe sins per day. So we have to deal with that.
We don't need that perfection anymore. We need to have the notion or the consciousness of perfection that we get from resonance with God. And this resonance with God, we can better have it through the work of Jesus Christ. So this is the best way to be in resonance with God.
Richard: But not just in terms of just believing in him, right? Or living in him, but of actually trying to live our lives by the same values he did, right?
Cláudia: Exactly. Trying to imitate him as much as possible. This is the big work. But this is the way, as
Cesar: he said. I'm the way. I teach the way. So trying to imitate him. I have a comment to do. Lucifer in paradise, before he fell, before he and his angels fell, he was the angel of light. Angel of light meaning that he was the angel that had more consciousness of everything.
The Bible says that. And after the fall, because he entered in this attitude of arrogance, he lost his light. And all of his angels also lost the light. So that's why they are represented as dark angels, no light. But this, the human being, we cannot forget that even in the Bible says that the human being followed Lucifer, you know, represented in that, in Adam and Eve story, right?
So we are in this condition here on earth. And Dr. Keppe's work all the time says that we do not want to see our pathologies. And this is our main problem, because pathology means lack of consciousness. Pathology means lack of energy. Pathology means darkness in ourselves.
Cláudia: You mean pathology is the same as sin. Scientific
Cesar: word, right?
Cláudia: Yeah, scientific name for sin is
Cesar: pathology, yes.
And so through unconscious pathology, we get in connection, we get in resonance with these dark spirits. And the worst of all is because this is not aware in us. So we are used by these demonic entities, unaware. We think we are doing good things, but we are moved by evil spirits without knowing.
Cláudia: So I would like to add to what you are saying, Cesar, that Keppe did a comparison, a comparative work, between a religious tradition and revelation and science, and he compared what is a healthy person and what is a sick person, what is a healthy angel and what is a sick angel.
So that's why he calls the devils or demons as schizophrenic angels, because what angels did in in the past, what what angels did with their light, as you said, with their consciousness, because they were envious, because they suffered from this theomania also. They wanted to be above God. They didn't want to be creatures. They wanted to be themselves the rulers of their kingdom.
So those angels, they became schizophrenic, maniac, depressive, epileptic, whatever sickness they had. And now human beings are the same. We for envy, for theomania, we don't want to be creatures, we want to be the creators of our universes. And if we don't succeed in doing this materially at least we we live in our fantasies and in our and in our ideas. So we are schizophrenic, we are maniac depressive, we are epileptic, we are obsessive, and all this resonance as you said is always linked to pathology.
So we can say that we have depressive thoughts that are in resonance to depressive angels. We have aggressive, suicidal or homicidal thoughts because we are in tune with paranoid angels. We start making intrigues and blaming other people for our problems because we are in resonance with the paranoid and projective angels. So this is a much easier way to to understand the process of resonance with angels.
And as Thomas Aquinas said, each one of us has an angel, should have a good angel to talk to, to resonate with. But it seems that we have double angels. We have millions of negative angels around us and starving for energy.
Richard: Vampires. Wow, Cláudia. So what an opportunity this is for us to begin to change our experience and resonate with the good angels.
Cláudia: How do you do that? How you can resonate with good angels by
Richard: doing good by
Cláudia: acknowledging the mistakes the pathologies you know why? Because those angels they can't stand consciousness, they can't stand light anymore. So if I am humble and if I admit oh how envious am I, so how depressive, how paranoid, how schizophrenic, whatever bad attitudes I have during Christmas, of how voracious.
How envious, how unsatisfied, how ungrateful, how whatever we can see, how egotistic, how theomanic, how arrogant. So every time I feel this consciously, I feel, I recognize attitudes like this, those angels cannot take it. They just run away. So this is the best way we exercise ourselves. And
Richard: Dr. Keppe's work of bringing good into the world scientifically, not just through faith, is very beautiful, I think.
He says our participation in the glory of God elevates us to a dimension that is beyond description.
Cláudia: May I invite you to something, Jones? Yes. First of all, I want to thank you for your work very, very much. Because we see that people who listen, they benefit so much from your work. This is a beautiful work. Continue doing this, Jones. Don't stop this.
And I will invite you and all our participants to try to ascend through the revelation of the pathology and the revelation of truth that Keppe developed based on the teachings of the ancient wise man and also from Jesus Christ's teachings, through these revelations, we could ascend a lot in our vibrations. And we could have in our minds that we might get there.
We could get there to glorification. We could, through the good actions and starting this new civilization, start a new era of glory to humanity which we were created for. What will last and what will be important is that you create within yourself, inside of you, deep down in your being, this column, as even some Jewish Kabbalah speak about this inner column of light and consciousness, which is direct, linked to God.
So we would be channeling the energy of God much better. Seeing our mistakes, acknowledging our pathologies, being humble is the only way. Very few people want to pay for this price. No, many people are ready to pay this price to be humble. So it's now our turn. The other day, Keppe was speaking about four phases of humanity. That the true wise people were the ancient people.
As he said, the old ages, in ancient ages. And then, because of the unconsciousness around pathologies, social and individual, there was this decay. So the the true wise man gave place to medieval times where they were already not developing, not going forward, but decaying. And then another age, the modern age, was even worse, because we were more and more distant from the true wisdom that was more characteristic to the ancient wise man.
And now the contemporary age which is the total disaster. Total disaster. And when he was explaining this and saying that we are now starting a new civilization, all this tradition of Daniel, these prophecies came clear to my mind. Four ages, four empires before the everlasting fifth empire. So we are opening the gates for the fifth empire. And this is very, very beautiful, to be born, to live, and to participate in the foundation of this fifth empire, which will be the universal, spiritual, everlasting empire of God here.
Meaning, the true empire for humanity, plane of wisdom, plane of consciousness, and very energetic, a true cosmic civilization.
Richard: Wouldn't that be something? You've been listening to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones, talk to you next time. Bye-bye. The audience is
listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
