I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and first, Happy New Year to you from all of us here in Brazil. I've been on vacation for the past couple of weeks, a rare pleasure with my busy schedule down here. A large group of us, we're spending some time at our hotel complex, about 350 kilometers from our headquarters in São Paulo.
We have a fascinating social program going on there where we're putting into practice many of Norberto Keppe's social ideas in an attempt to help a small town that is suffering from enormous poverty and decadence. It's a wonderful project that fascinates and impresses anyone who comes to see it from around the world. And this year we had guests from Sweden and Finland, from Argentina and Colombia, from Russia and the U.S., even from Iraq and Norway.
It was quite something, let me tell you, to witness a dinner conversation between an American, a Russian, and an Iraqi, all finding common ground beyond the elaborated political and military differences, showing that our conflicts between countries are largely illusionary, fed and pumped up by an aggressive economic power structure driven by the cruelest, most sadistic, and even psychotic individuals in society. This is one of the driving ideas behind Norberto Keppe's work in sociopathology, outlined in a number of extraordinary books, including Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, and Work and Capital, his poetic and vast critique of modern economics, where he outlines the basis for a new spiritual economics, an economy that would be just and life-enhancing, as opposed to the inverted and cruel economic orientation that we follow to our great detriment today.
Let me tell you, witnessing that dinner conversation, anyone could perceive the sickness in our society that would pit one group against another in acts of war or torture or hatred. And it's possible to bring all that together, Jews and Arabs, Russians, Americans, Iraqis, Protestants and Catholics and Muslims, in Keppe's integral universal spirituality that brings us all together in the cohesive elements namely truth beauty and goodness that transcend religious dogma.
These are universal values that we all have the fingerprints of god that we all carry inside us and that bring us together as opposed to separating us. Very powerful stuff. Well I feel a need to express this unifying quality in Keppe's work in light of the traumatic shootings and murders in Tucson a few days ago. Six people killed, others wounded badly, and the divisive debate that always erupts in seeking to apportion blame in these kinds of tragedies.
Look, the real culprit here is a deep psychosocial crisis of which this is a serious symptom. This is happening on our planet, something we've all contributed to with our psychopathology, our corruption of our true essence of life, which has led to our sick society today. This we really need to wake up to in 2011, and it's the reason for our radio program, actually.
And I realize this is probably not very comfortable to hear that these problems are not only external, that the source of our difficulties is more inside than out. Of course, the internal becomes external, just like an emotional problem has a physical symptom in our bodies, as we'll explore in the second half of our program today with Dr. Roberto Giraldo, but I'm trying to suggest that these physical external symptoms that happen, shootings, high increases in the cases of cancer, of AIDS, of all these dead birds falling from the sky, dead fish in the seas and lakes, this has an internal relationship with the human being and the society that we have created.
Dr. Keppe talks about this a lot. In his book, Work and Capital, he says that he's long been aware of how difficult it is to single out humanity's single greatest problem. And he's written, oh my gosh, scores of books on psychopathology, psychosomatic disorders, books on spirituality, philosophy, the history of thought, sociology, politics, and economics, but this one about a psychosocial transformation, this idea about psychosocial transformation coming through politics and economics, dealing with what he has called sociopathology.
Keppe actually thinks that this is maybe the central difficulty of the human species and the central cause of our neurosis and psychological and social imbalance. Really, without a change in our socioeconomic structure, there could be no change in the behavior of the individual. Because neurosis, psychosis, and physical illness, with their resulting tensions of anxiety, phobia, anguish, depression, these are brought on by the conduct of the individual, and that conduct is shaped primarily by the social system.
Of course, there are more serious cases, as we're seeing with this situation in Tucson. A person's psychopathological condition may be caused solely by psychological factors, envy, megalomania, narcissism, but these are exceptional cases. And maybe even this case in Tucson has some relationship to these social crises, social problems that are going on. Obviously, this young man didn't get the help that he needed along the way to resolve the problems that he was having inside.
So, We have to begin to look at this in a much broader way than just trying to point fingers of blame outside all the time. This is a problem inside our society, and we're all responsible for that. Human society is sick, as Keppe puts it. And this is strong, I know, but we have to begin to see it from this light. We have to wake up to this.
Good heavens. In fact, we are so profoundly out of balance in our society that this is posing a threat to ourselves, to individuals, and to our physical and mental equilibrium, because it's impossible to live or feel or act appropriately if the social environment forces us to live, perceive, and work in an erroneous way. Human society is inverted. The most unbalanced people are in control, and the ordinary normal people are working for them.
We go from one crisis to another because we're living under an inverted social order. This is very powerful stuff, I know, and I want to explore that a little bit through one particular area with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco today, and that's the area of drugs, the drug industry. I don't mean pharmaceuticals now. I'm talking about the mind-expanding so-called drugs. So let's bring Dr.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco in here and talk about this and see if we can put a finger on this sociopathological situation problem we're living in today. Cláudia, we had a great email from a listener in South Carolina in the U.S., and he asked this question. He said, on the subject of drugs, I classified them into two categories, mind-numbing drugs, cocaine, tobacco, heroin, alcohol, et cetera, and mind-opening drugs, peyote, cannabis, mushrooms, et cetera.
While the former, the mind-numbing drugs, have been found to be dangerous and highly addictive, the latter, the mind-opening drugs, have been used for centuries and show no signs of addiction or even lasting health problems with repetitious use.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: We have to see the first research of Freud. And I don't know if you are aware that Freud used cocaine. And some of the psychoanalysts used cocaine to open the consciousness and the minds of their patients.
All these experiments, besides hypnosis, which is a technique to open the subconscious mind in not a spontaneous way, it's more something that is forced, artificially induced. But let me tell you something, Richard, the experiments that Freud did proved to be ineffective and sometimes even dangerous, because we have more an artificial unconsciousness, which is induced by our censorship. It's fabricated by our censorship.
So we hide from our consciousness what we are not prepared or not willing to see. So we hide consciousness, important, extremely important consciousness by our own envy. We don't want to see them. So we hide them or by censorship, by intolerance, by intransigence, what we call theomania. We want everything perfect. We don't see problems. We idealize everything, the world, myself, so I would not bear seeing some problems, true problems in myself or in people.
Bad intentions, vices.
Richard: I'm not quite as good as I think I am.
Cláudia: Yes, and sometimes things that are very negative, like perversions and ill desires. And this Freud wanted to uncover these ill intentions, these perverted intentions that people carried in their inner selves, focusing more on sexual things. We don't focus that much on sexual things because sexual perversions are more symptoms for other more.
More serious pathologies, more based on envy, extremely arrogance, megalomania, etc., etc.
Richard: Ingratitude, all of these.
Cláudia: Ingratitude, etc. And exploitation, for instance, and evil intentions towards our fellow man, destruction of our world. So, what he realized, Freud realized, was that people were not prepared to see things in their inner selves yet. And if they were forced to do so, they became sometimes psychotic.
This unleashed some crisis, psychological psychotic crisis in them. And that's what happens frequently. People that take drugs with the intention to open their consciousness artificially, many times they are unable to go back to the true real reality of the everyday world where you have to work and be in contact. And there are many revelations people can't handle. And they just break down their ego.
Richard: Yeah, we saw this in the 60s, I think. Certainly I saw this with a lot of guys who were experimenting with LSD. And it was very difficult for them to come back from these nightmares that they were having, these terrible visions. So this idea of mind opening, you know, this is something that we should just talk about in this a little bit more.
Is it really mind opening?
Cláudia: Opening the neurons, artificially open the neurons and bringing to the surface material that is unconscientized and that we should normally see that. So we perceive much more things than we acknowledge because of our decrease in consciousness. So this decrease in our consciousness is the result of this pathologies that Keppe mentions in his work. So the more we open our censorship the more we deal with our censorship the more we open our consciousness in a natural way.
So I'll see more and more and stand more and more. So this is much more therapeutic or more effective because this is an opening with no side effects most of the
Richard: time. And I think too, Cláudia, what's important to say about this is many times people who are using these mind opening experiences, they're looking for like a spiritual, mystical experience of themselves, that I'm part of the universe in some vaster way.
And what you're talking about is more the consciousness of how we block ourselves.
Cláudia: Yes, and block this consciousness because we should be in contact. We are transcendental beings. So it's not normal not to perceive all these beings. There are many children that they see spirits, they see angels, they see like spirit of so-called dead people. They can see things that we cannot see anymore because of this increase of censorship and sensorialism.
There are people who keep seeing things as like during their lives. So they are so-called mediums or paranormal or sometimes psychotics. Because the psychotic people, they see things that are most of the time real in this transcendental world, good and mostly bad spirit, and they don't know how to handle that reality. And society is not prepared to handle this too. So society censors.
If a patient goes to a psychiatrist and tells, I'm seeing and hearing things that are apparently non-existent, but they know they are totally tangible in transcendental terms, so the psychiatrist or these health professionals, they tend to label this person as a psychotic and they give them a lot of drugs to cover up that awareness. So my idea, Jones, is that when the person is willing to uncover consciousness or open their minds, they are more curious and have more this intention.
Because if they want to go through this, they must go through this like through virtue, being virtuous, being loving, being ethical. So this is like the door opening to transcendence. It's looking for a link with God through the resonance with him in terms of doing what he taught us to do, to be ethical, to do good to other people, and to give our lives totally to beauty, truth, and goodness.
Richard: Fascinating stuff.
We'll return in just a moment. Don't go away.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We're back, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We've been talking about the drugs industry. Well, first, how drugs opened the mind.
We're going to get into now the drug industry, not the pharmaceutical drugs, but the illegal drug industry and how that's working to control our minds. And this is important for us to understand in light of all these situations that we see happening around the world. First, I want to just let you know about our websites, information for contacting us. We have a special email set up for this program, joneshealing at gmail.com.
Please check us out. Let us know what you think. And any questions, comments are very, very welcome for our program. Now back to Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, our fascinating discussion about drugs. Let's come back a little bit to talk a bit more about drugs, not about the mind-opening part, but about the drug industry.
Cláudia: The mind-closing.
Richard: The mind-closing, yes, the drug
Cláudia: industry. You wrote a
Richard: book a number of years ago called The American Drug Multinational. Yeah. And I was reading an article from this on the establishment, how drugs are the establishment's weapon to numb social consciousness. The moment I read that title, I remembered Timothy Leary, who said, turn on, tune in, drop out, leave the society, don't have any part of the society.
Drugs have very much been used to take human beings away from reality, haven't they? Who
Cláudia: would be mostly benefited by this?
Richard: The powerful people who would benefit from the stupidity or the unawareness of the general population.
Cláudia: Yes. Jones, if you remember the 60s, there was an increasing awareness, especially in those intellectual centers in the United States, Europe, and even the so-called third world.
So people were increasing more and more their consciousness, naturally increasing, seeing that there was something very wrong in the way society was organized and the way people was led to be slaves. The hypocrisy, the mosque, exploitation, slavery, all these values, like having more than being, and war, Vietnam War, and all those wars in the name of American flag and the nation and God.
Democracy. Democracy.
Roberto Giraldo: And people started to
Cláudia: realize this was a huge fake. The war benefited the economic powerful, those who built weapons, those who were in charge of things and political power. So they started to revolt. There were very dangerous centers for those people, like growing fast, artists, intellectuals, young people. This is a recipe that CIA and those secret services dislike the most, because people who think and act, they are dangerous, because they bring, especially artists and intellectuals and philosophers, they bring the whole nations behind them.
So the big revolutions were being planned, peaceful revolutions, intellectual revolutions. There are the most dangerous ones. One of the projects they organized was the Bluebird Project.
Richard: Yeah, I think this is very important to understand, Cláudia. Most of us know nothing about the Bluebird Project. This was a mind control research set up by the CIA back in the 60s, I believe, using drugs, both prescription and hallucinatory, to create new identities, to induce amnesia, to insert hypnotic access codes in the subject's minds, like the Manchurian Candidate movie showed, creating multiple personalities, creating false memories.
This was a very nefarious and ill-intentioned project.
Cláudia: So they organized a way to neutralize them. And also, not only that, but taking LSD, even taking heroin, even marijuana, take people away from reality. I
Richard: think this is important that we don't need anything that takes people away from reality. We need to try to see reality. You talked about in a podcast a couple of weeks ago about return to paradise.
How we have the paradise here, but our problem is we're rejecting it. So we don't need to create a paradise. We need to see how we reject the paradise that we already have. This is a question of consciousness. So
Cláudia: you see, Richard, having all those artists, students, young people, idealistic people being drugged. So at the same time that they numbed their consciousness, their perception, their smartness, their capacity to speak to normal people in society, they started to speak just for themselves.
And they closed up in those groups. So at the same time, they numbed their mentality, their capacity, their mental capacity. They made them hooked in drugs so they would even pay for their destruction. It was a twofold kind of malignant evil plan. They would have them numbed, neutralized like psychotics, numbed by those pills that they give people now. It's a kind of numbing their minds too.
So not only heroin or LSD, but all those psychotropics are numbing the minds of people. So they did this, they hooked them on drugs, so they would even have a lot of profits out from this. So it was a very smart plan. And they finished with all those ideals of the 60s. Lost. Everything is lost in this way. Because the profits of heroin and all these drugs increased tremendously.
Richard: Yeah, it's important to say that many of the profits from drugs go through the American banking system. Oh,
Cláudia: this is for sure. This
Richard: is for sure.
Cláudia: The major part of the profits that American banks do, it's this money laundering thing.
Richard: Somebody suggested it's between $500 billion and $1 trillion a year. Yeah,
Cláudia: this is huge. Enormous. And if they would legalize drugs, the use of drugs, then all this would come to the surface, and they would know what is really behind these profits in banking.
Richard: Cláudia, you said something in your book that I found very interesting. You said drugs have been used by the state since the Industrial Revolution. Yeah.
Cláudia: Do you have some examples? Yeah, in England. Because this is a wonderful... Do you remember this war, the China War? England attacked China because the China, the Chinese...
Richard: The opium war.
Cláudia: Yeah, the opium war. So the industrial establishment or the owners of these huge industries, they had to give this kind of opium to children to stay quiet in home when their slaves went to work.
So their children had to get opium to stay quiet. So they quiet down.
Richard: Now we have television and computers, but... Yes.
Cláudia: So they quiet down all these workers, people from labor, using drugs. So when China tried to stop selling opium to England, They came with cannons to reestablish this. And this, Richard, this happened in Iraq war, Kuwait war,
Richard: Afghanistan
Cláudia: war. Because the Taliban group is very fanatic in terms of religion.
And so they applied the law in Afghanistan not to plant, to grow papolas anymore, poppies anymore, and to produce opium anymore. So it was a decrease of 85% of production. After the United States invaded Afghanistan and took away the Taliban, so this opium came back in 85% production.
Richard: It's now 96% of the world's production now. It's very interesting because they took the Taliban out of power and the only area of Afghanistan that the Taliban could not control were the northern
Cláudia: provinces.
And who was put in, and those are drug lords directly, Exactly. Who was put in power in Afghanistan after the United Nations coalition invaded the United States? Who was put in power was the Northern Alliance. They're drug
Richard: lords
Cláudia: running Afghanistan. That's right. That's right.
Richard: That's right. Same thing happened in Vietnam. There was the Golden Triangle. Yes. It was all drugs. Yes.
Cláudia: Yes.
And so we see the big big drug lords fighting the smaller and the small ones. So we see all this theater going on the DEA theater. So as if they were taking care of this they for sure many people who work for those agencies many of them are honest and good willing people they are honest and goodwill, but some people in charge, in key positions, they make sure they have no competition.
Richard: Yeah, this is very true.
Cláudia: So what happened to Noriega, a light of bush in the past? He was quiet down.
Richard: Yeah, he was completely shut down. They invaded Panama to get rid of
Cláudia: Noriega. Yeah, just to quiet him down.
Richard: You know, well, I don't know if I should say this, But many of the CEOs of the biggest banks, Citibank, Chase, Manhattan, they go regularly to Columbia.
Why do they go to Columbia? Columbia produces coffee, bananas. There's nothing in Columbia, but there's lots of drugs. And I'm convinced that they're going there to make sure that the illegal drug money gets laundered through the U.S. Banking system.
Cláudia: This is for sure. Now, concerning Columbia, for instance, what happened to Columbia? And this I read in a newspaper, a French newspaper, Le Monde Diplomatique.
So, Ignacio Ramonet, a very good journalist, was explaining why Colombia had to start producing a lot of cocaine. Because the commodities market in Chicago, who takes care of the prices of cereals and food, etc.
Richard: Soy, wheat,
Cláudia: coffee. We knew Colombia's coffee was the main product. The main income for Colombian people was their coffee. So they put down the price, international price of coffee.
So they had to turn their agricultural spaces, production
Richard: to cocaine. To make money.
Cláudia: To make money, to survive. This was an explanation of Inas de Ramonet in Le Monde Diplomatique, which is a very credentiated kind of newspaper. Yeah,
Richard: it's a very prestigious newspaper. You made a comment
Cláudia: in your book I found very interesting. You said there are no protests today like there were in the 60s.
No, not at all.
Richard: And you suggest drugs is part of the responsibility for
Cláudia: this. This is interesting. So they could organize a system of repression and surveillance, which is incredible. So now they have internet, they have all those satellites, so they have an incredible, and a lot of weapons, so we are under a total dictatorship, and drugs played an essential role in this situation, because people now, they are neutralized through drugs.
They give profits, and at the same time, thinking that they are opposing society and establishment, they take drugs. And it's right the opposite. When they take drugs, they are being like totally… Lobotomized.
Richard: Lobotomized, and
Cláudia: being like… Like sheep. So if we see this enormous destruction going on, this enormous deception, we have to help our fellow man.
Richard: Because now there are so many kids and adults being totally lobotomized with Ritalin and
Cláudia: Prozac in the United States.
Lives destroyed. Totally
Richard: destroyed, Jones. Diagnosing the kids with attention deficit disorder and bipolar disorder and all of these fabricated things that can be treated through trilogical analysis very, very, very well. Let me finish with one quote that you can comment on from your wonderful book, The American Drug Multinational. You said, there's no doubt that drugs have served as one of the most efficient means, if not the most efficient one, to make social and human consciousness go numb, paralyzing the natural development of civilization.
Civilization. Oh, I really like that quote. Strong, and I think it shows something about the pathology of power that we talk a lot about. Do you have any comments? I mean, that sort of stands on its own, but is there anything to add to that?
Cláudia: Yes, I see that this is one of the biggest gifts of the pathologically powerful people to humanity and to our children to us to our beloved ones and we see so many of them having their lives.
Destroyed by those evil, powerful people in charge of the world. So we still count on those who still have some of their human essence left inside of them to get united, to open their eyes, and please get united before it's too late.
Richard: Please. That's a real request, isn't it? Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, a fascinating discussion with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Back in a moment with a change of topics, Dr. Roberto Giraldo will join me. Stay tuned.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We are back on the Positive World Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones with Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, a change of topics now. Dr. Roberto Giraldo from Colombia, a psychosomatic doctor here at Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy, joins us to talk about another epidemic that's ongoing.
You came here because of Dr. Keppe's specific work in the medicine of the soul. Exactly, the medicine of the soul. That he found a way to analyze what's going on inside the psyche of the human being. Because there's a kind of a common belief in the world today, Geraldo, that we don't need to treat the sick person, we just need to treat the disease.
This is an inverted idea. I know. Because the sick person is sick, not because of something from the outside, not because of something they're a victim of, but of something that's going on inside. Yes. This is work
Roberto: that's fascinated you for years in your work with AIDS patients around the world. Yeah. So, Dr. Keppe's work really, really touched you. Because for many years, Richard, I was working in the United States, in Europe, in Africa, with AIDS patients and also with patients with cancer and those kind of diseases that the medical establishment calls mortal diseases.
Diseases that they can, that according to them, they don't have cure. They kill you. Yes, exactly. And I started to observe something very interesting. Is that very often people who were supposed to die, they didn't. They decided to be alive and well. And I started to say, how come? How they did it? And I started to observe what was the person himself or herself, the person who makes the things to happen.
And also the ones who die, die because they decided to die. Consciously or unconsciously? Inconsciently, and sometimes consciously as well. Sometimes consciously too. So, being in New York for 20 years, I started to join many groups who were doing what they call spiritual healing, quantum medicine, natural healing, ayurvedic medicine, homeopathic medicine, many, many. I was searching all kinds of natural things, and especially the one that had to do with the mind and the spiritual things.
But there was always a gap there. There was a gap. And I think because still most of these natural therapies, they are materialistic, they are not metaphysic, they are still in the sensorial life. For instance, people who do acupuncture, they believe that the needles are the ones that heal. And also people who work with homeopathic remedies, they feel that the remedies are the ones that heal.
And it's not like that. Or people who work with nutritional therapy, So they believe that it's the food that you eat that heals or makes you heal. And that's not true.
Richard: Sure, there are people, too, who do these massive vitamin treatments, who do
Roberto: all sorts of supplements to improve their health. Exactly. And indeed, in the still of helping people, they are inverting people in the idea that people start to feel that they don't need to pay attention to themselves.
They need just to go to a good doctor to get a good treatment, and that's it. And to get the pills that you need. And that's why people with cancer or with any disease, they spend all the money that they have just traveling. How far they travel, as much money that they have. If they have little, they travel just to the next town.
If they have a lot, they go to Africa, they go to India, they go to Mexico, looking for the external thing that is going to heal. What amazed me a lot from Dr. Keppe was when I read The Origin of Illnesses, that beautiful book of his. Which
Richard: is available in English, by the way, The Origin
Roberto: of Illnesses. The Origin of Illnesses, yes.
Where he said that people spend their whole life waiting for the solution to come out of him or her when the solution is still inside ourselves.
Richard: What Dr. Keppe meant was that people spend their whole lives looking outside for a solution that actually is inside the person. Exactly.
Roberto: And what brings Dr. Keppe to think about, I think, is his metaphysic view of everything.
So I think just the name of Analytical Trilogy, that means science, philosophy, and theology. And really he means theology. And when you see for the books of Dr. Keppe, one-third of the books are about the spiritual life, about metaphysics, or perhaps half of the books. And in all the books, he speaks about that. So, the difference between Dr. Keppe's science and other sciences is that Dr.
Keppe is a person, is a metaphysic science. What does this mean, Gerardo? For instance, in medicine, the society thinks that the human being is a body, mind, and soul. But they see the human being like with three different compartments. The body is one part, the mind is another one, and the soul is different. So the society, doctors are the ones who take care of the body, and they divide the body in little pieces, so the cardiologists take care of the heart, The neurologist takes
Richard: care of
Roberto: the brain.
Exactly. The rheumatologist of the joints and things like that. And the psychiatrists and psychologists, they believe that they know the mind because they are specialized in that part. And the priests of all religions, they feel that they know everything about the spiritual life and theology. So this creates a confusion, because human beings, we are at the same time body, mind, and soul.
Together. Together, as in unity. They are not separated, unity. So when we get any symptom of the body, any sore throat, or any coughing, or any fever, it's a manifestation of what is wrong in our mind. And that is a manifestation or secondary to what is wrong in our spiritual life. That one is very unique view, Dr. Keppe. Dr. Keppe goes directly that the origin of any organic disease is in our spiritual life.
Richard: So in a sense, Dr. Keppe sort of completed the dots for you. It was the final piece
Roberto: in the puzzle. Exactly. And this is very important. Very beautiful. It's beautiful, Richard. Beautiful. And I think it's the metaphysics that Dr. Keppe started to look for. And because since the times of Frank Alexander, Frank Alexander is the guy who is supposed to be the father of psychosomatic medicine.
He was a disciple of Freud. He created the Center of Psychosomatic Medicine in Chicago. But he was very radical, and he died. But he was very interesting because this guy in the 1930s and 40s, he was the one who was bringing the idea that we, our body gets sick because our mind was sick. And that's beautiful, the work of Frank Alexander. But Frank Alexander didn't think of it, of the spirit, of the soul, but just the mind and the body, mind and body, mind and body.
Richard: This is interesting. I remember having a conversation with Cláudia Pacheco one time about the, she had a client who was, had a sort of, she was becoming deaf. And the doctors were concerned about this. And, but during her analysis, the symptoms went away. And so she went to the doctor and the doctor said, well, resume your normal life. You're a healthy woman.
And if the symptoms continue in the future, you come back. But for now, you're completely healed. And this client of Cláudia's woke up the next day after the doctor gave her this message with a heavy heart. She had a bad feeling. And like she was expecting something bad from the doctor. Like the doctor was going to tell her, oh, it's very serious.
And, you know, it looks like not much hope for you. And she was in a way kind of depressed. And Cláudia was helping her to see that this problem the human being has is not a problem of physical symptoms. It's a problem of attitude, like a desire to be sick behind the physical symptoms many times. And that this is a metaphysical problem against our life.
Roberto: Exactly. And the problem, Richard, is that often doctors and medicine and dentists and all these people, they know about the emotional influences of diseases. But that's all they see. So, for instance, when a person is deaf, like the patient of Dr. Cláudia, and the doctor feels that there is an emotional problem there, they send the patient to the psychiatrist. And the psychiatrist gives the person medications to kill the symptoms, so to cover, and doesn't heal anything.
It's making the thing even worse. In Dr. Keppe's view, you need to see what is causing the problem. Psychologically. Psychologically. Spiritually. Spiritually. Because we can make some example, Richard. And this is, for instance, we can make an example about cancer, for instance, that now in the moment are very interesting because we are having an epidemic of cancer in young people. And this
Richard: is...
Around the world?
Roberto: Around the world. Around the world. Here in Brazil as well, but there are a lot of reports in scientific journals, well, what they call scientific journals, of an increment of cancer in young people. The age of getting cancer is each time less, less, less, less. Getting younger and younger. Younger and younger and younger. Do we
Richard: have statistics? Do we have percentages?
50?
Roberto: No. I don't know about statistics. But 40 years ago, cancer was a disease of old people. Now it's not anymore. Here, for instance, in our clinic, in a matter of three months, we saw eight people with less than 35 years old with cancer. Good heavens. So that's not normal. That's not what we are accustomed to see in the past. Why? Because to get a cancer, like to get any disease, there are some factors that are external, indeed, which are secondary.
For instance, you know that agrochemicals, all these electromagnetic fields, radiation,
Richard: the thing that you
Roberto: eat, all the preservatives, hormones that have the food, all
Richard: these indeed can affect. But if
Roberto: there were the cause of cancer, all of us should have cancer. Because we live in a world that is polluted with all the things. We're
Richard: loaded with toxins.
Roberto: Exactly. All of us, we are exposed to them.
However, why some get nothing? And those who get the cancer get a specific form of cancer. That depends on something inner of the person, inside the person. And that's why we need to think about the personality to get cancer. There is a personality, Richard, to get cancer, which is known since the time of Galeno. Galeno was one of the fathers of medicine 500 years after Jesus in year 500.
Galeno in Rome
Richard: there were breast cancer cases in 500. Oh
Roberto: yes there were a
Richard: few there were a few. I thought it was a modern disease.
Roberto: No there were a few but he knew that these women were very angry angriness anger with anger and they don't tell about that they don't complain they don't they just keep that anger inside. So Galeno knew.
Sometimes
Richard: they're not even aware they have this
Roberto: anger. Exactly. That angriness. And Galeno knew. So still nowadays, it is very well known, Richard, that one of the main things to get cancer is to have a personality where you are eternally unsatisfied.
Richard: Never happy.
Roberto: You're never happy. You complain about everything, about the husband, about the wife, about the children, about my father, my mother, my job, my boss,
Richard: the food, the weather, the traffic, the government.
So you see all the problems outside and it's a professional complainer and this is part of the personality to get cancer.
Roberto: And beside that is a person with rancor. This
Richard: kind of long standing. It's
Roberto: a person who cannot pardon and always is remembering that little thing with that person that he or she met 20 years
Richard: ago. It was a Tuesday 11.30 in the
Roberto: morning.
And he's always remembering that little thing, that the personality that can get cancer. And usually there is a moment to get the cancer. That moment is when the person has a feeling of lost. For instance, when the person has a loss of a relative, or the person has something that is a loss, there is a feeling of loss, feeling alone, feeling hopeless, there
Richard: is nothing out there, I am totally alone.
Roberto: Yeah, totally alone in that moment. It can be the beginning of cancer. Now, which organs are the organs where the cancer can start? Because cancer, as any other disease, is a disease of the whole body. The cells of the body start to reproduce crazy. But in which organs they grow, especially those organs who are weaker? Weaker why? Also, emotionally speaking, emotionally speaking, For instance, I saw recently a woman who has a 33-year-old woman.
30 years old. 30 years old, with a cancer of the stomach, a stomach cancer, which is not common. No. She was a person who had problems with food, sometimes like bulimia, sometimes anorexia, sometimes acidity, sometimes problems with constipation. So for many years, she was already somatizing. She was already in the digestive system.
Richard: So we need to find out more about that, but we need to take a quick break.
Dr. Roberto Giraldo, back with you in just a moment.
Back in a moment.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We are back on the Positive World Radio Network. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
Our email, joneshealing at gmail.com. Of course, we're talking about healing. And when we're talking about healing, we're talking about very, very personal issues. Anybody who's had a brush with a serious disease or knows somebody who has, boy, this touches deep into what's really going on. And this is controversial. It's only controversial, really, in our minds because of what we've learned along the way.
But in Norberto Keppe's institute, we're discovering exactly that these diseases that we see so prominent, so prevalent in our system, society today, are caused by things that are going on inside us. Of course, the external stresses, too, as we've been talking about. But there's something going on internally that needs to be seen. Roberto Giraldo, what is happening with this woman with cancer you're talking about?
Roberto: Why the cancer started in the stomach? Also because that person is a person who, besides being sad, permanently sad, and then that angriness, and that rancor, is also a person who is destructive. It's a person who is not grateful with life, doesn't thank God, is not a very spiritual person. So in certain ways, a destructive, self-destructive person. Yeah,
Richard: bulimia, anorexia, these are very
Roberto: destructive.
And why the cancer can start in the stomach? Because the stomach is a viral organ. You cannot survive without food. You cannot survive without digestive system. So that's the thing. There are some times where the person starts, the cancer is in the lungs. Why? Because perhaps the lungs are weaker. For some external factors, like people who use women in very primitive areas where they cook with wood.
So they are accustomed to have a lot of smoke inside their lungs, not only cigarettes. And so that makes the lungs weaker. So if the person has the personality to get cancer and the lungs are weaker, that's the place that the cancer is going to grow. It's a bad combination. It's a bad combination. And that one needs also a lot of self-destructiveness because lungs are a viral organ.
Richard: Now, self-destructiveness is not something that the person is conscious of, right? It's not like that. It's not. It's much more
Roberto: subtle than that. It's very obvious in the society. We see the people who are obviously self-destructive, but all of us have a bit of this tendency. All of us, we have a little bit of that. The problem, Richard, like Dr. Koepp explains, is that this is inconsciently.
We don't perceive. We get sick because we don't see how horrible we are, how horrible we are in our inside. Right. So the healing and the prevention is what? To see. To see, to accept, what is called interiorization or conscientization.
Richard: Let's come back to that. I want to talk about that a little bit more. But the kids, what's happening with the young people?
What are the reasons we're getting so many young cases of cancer in our world?
Roberto: Kids and young people. For many reasons. One is because the external part is because we are living in a polluted planet. A lot of carcinogenic chemicals, a lot of radiation, electromagnetic fields, because each time people are getting much more number of vaccinations. And vaccinations are a cancer-causing element, because as higher the number of vaccines that the person gets, that means that the immune system is weaker.
And the immune system is very important to fight against cancer. You get, because in my times, 40, 50, 60 years ago, Richard, I used to have one, two vaccinations. It was not so horrible. But nowadays, in the United States, in Europe, where a person has 15 years old, he's already 15 years old. He already got 30, 40 vaccinations. This is terrible. This is crazy.
People of the future are going to see how crazy they were. A horde? How ridiculous they were. How alienated they were. How they couldn't see that you cannot do that to kids. That you cannot put foreign injections or foreign things to the person. Because that is going to destroy the immune system and many other things. So that's a fact. Vaccination is a fact for cancer.
The other factor, Richard, is that each time people are going crazier and crazier. So the emotional part. So people in all over the planet, we are in an epidemic of craziness. We are unsatisfied. We are angry. The person with the neighbors, with the co-workers, with classmates, in the school, the kids fight. And
Richard: we have a society where we have no hope. People are doing work that's soul-destroying, mind-destroying.
Roberto: People hate each other. And even the government and the Department of Health and the World Health Organization is helping in that hate. Because, for instance, you remember recently when we had this artificial epidemic of swine flu. Artificial because that's not true.
Richard: What happened to it?
Roberto: Yes, and we saw here in Brazil and in many, many places that, for instance, even the churches, like the Catholic church that used to have the hugging at the end of the mass, they stopped it.
They stopped it because it was dangerous to hug another one because you can get a virus, the virus of the pigs. This is ridiculous. And kids in the schools, kindergarten, were advised by the teachers not to touch each other because you can get the virus, the viruses. So kids start to see each other like enemies. So all this is incrementing the paranoia, the hopeless, helpless, the craziness of all of us.
And so it's preparing our body, mind, and spirit to get cancer and many other things.
Richard: And we think that everything comes from the outside. Every problem is an external problem. Exactly. So we have this crazy idea that there's germs and bacterias that will kill us, and we extend that to other cultures. We have this idea that there are all these terrorists out there who are suddenly going to start exploding bombs in our homes.
We have this idea
Roberto: that the Mexicans coming across the border are bringing drugs and taking our jobs. And our jobs were lost in North America by our governments for the last 30 years. This is, well, we project all of this
Richard: into the external world. And you were talking about interiorization. Let's talk a little bit about that here at the end here as sort of the cure for this, to begin to see these problems internally as a cure to these diseases that we're developing.
Roberto: We see practically, Richard, here in our clinic in San Pablo, of psychosomatic medicine, how easy it is to heal a person. And it's not we doctors, the ones who heal. The person himself or herself is the one who heals. When the person says that he or she is angry, envious, megalomaniac, narcissistic, all these problems are going to help. And that's why we are noticing, for instance, something very interesting in our clinic Richard, and I was talking to Dr.
Keppe recently, that we have several people with cancer who have cancer, and you know a patient who has breast cancer which is ulcerated, ulcerated for 15 years. If you tell that in a hospital to an oncologist, the oncologist will say you are crazy, that doesn't exist, how a person can survive 15 years with an ulcerated cancer of the breast. And we have, why?
Because people who have a cancer and they do psychoanalytical, trilogical analysis. Not
Richard: psychiatry. This is
Roberto: trilogical psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis is different. The person needs to accept their own emotional disequilibriums and the people can survive forever richer. They are eternally good. However, we noticed something very interesting. As soon as a person stops analysis, or they feel that they have nothing else, and they go out and they start again to get crazy, the cancer starts.
So once, the most important thing is to avoid to get a cancer, to avoid to get any disease. Once you get any disease, practically forever you have to take care forever, because that disease can sleep. But to heal 100% is practically impossible. And
Richard: what is it about this type of psychoanalysis that has such a great cure rate?
Roberto: Because it goes directly to the cause, to the spiritual part, to the spiritual part of the person.
That's why this kind of medicine, Dr. Keppel used to call medicine of the soul.
Richard: Not religious, let's be very clear about that.
Roberto: Not religious, no.
Richard: To find out about the spirit of the human being, the attitude towards life, the view they have about themselves. Why,
Roberto: Richard? Because this has to do with something very simple that I learned recently with the book of metaphysics of Dr.
Keppe. It is scientifically proved that in the universe, 96% is free energy.
Richard: Doesn't come from material.
Roberto: Exactly. 96% of the universe is free energy. And only 4% is material energy. The atoms, the molecules, the things that are forming even the human being, the trees, the animals, everything that is material. This is only 4% of the universe. And in the human body, it's very similar, Richard.
Only 4% of us is the body. 96% of us is the energetic part of the person. And that 96% is what? It's our sentiments. Our feelings. Our thinking, way of thinking, and our attitudes. And that's 96%. So it is amazing to see how medicine and doctors and dentists are taking care of the 4%. And the one that is doing the cardiologist or gynecologist is taking care of that even more small part of the thing.
Richard: 0.0001%.
Roberto: Exactly, nothing. And they forget about the other part. So what is beautiful about Dr. Keppe's medicine is that here, Dr. Keppe and the trilogical medicine is taking care of the 96% of the sentiments, of the thinking, and the attitudes. When a person has a feeling, oh, I don't like that person, that sentiment, that feeling about them, I don't like that person, the first part is the sentiment you feel bad about somebody.
Then you think about doing something bad against he or she, and the third part is that you go and you do it. But even if you don't kill, because that's an exaggeration
Richard: that
Roberto: doesn't happen very often, but only the way that you feel about somebody and you don't like that person and you start to make intrigue. I don't remember how to say intrigue.
Richard: This is like scheming.
Roberto: You start scheming and planning. I'm planning with some other people against that
Richard: person, against that person. That's
Roberto: the attitude. So all this is sick. And this kind of thing is demonstrated scientifically that is creating energetic blockades in your body. And you can see that, Richard. We can see that scientifically. For instance, if we do the Kirlian photography.
Richard: Kirlian
Roberto: photography.
Kirlian photography. And you can see that. If you see a person who is happy, who is happy with everybody, who doesn't hate, you see the Kirlian photography. It's beautiful, the energy. It's beautiful. However, you see the same photo in a person who is angry, furious, depressive, self-destructive. It's completely different. Completely different. So you can see that. Now, how you can demonstrate that that affects your cells as your body.
Very simple. You can have today the blood test analysis that we do here too with the microscope, the Darfield microscope. And you can see that people who are happy, they have a very calibrated blood. The red blood cells, white blood cells, the serum is very calibrated. However, those people who are very depressed or who are more desequilibrated, they have much more desequilibrated, more unbalanced, the red
Richard: blood cell,
Roberto: the white blood cell, the serum, everything.
So you see directly that the emotional life, the spiritual life of the person is affecting the red blood cell. And why the spiritual life? We don't care here about religion, we don't care if the person is Christian or Muslim or Jewish or poly or believes in different gods or things like that. But we see something very interesting, Richard,
Richard: is that people who
Roberto: don't believe and who come to our clinic with a disease and they feel that they don't believe in God, that they don't believe in life after death, that they don't believe in eternal life, they have a blood that is very pathological.
Those who start to think, to believe, to accept that there is spiritual life, that something happens after death. That
Richard: there's something out there in the universe,
Roberto: that we're part of something. Yes, that we are already eternal. That we are already eternal. That according to how we behave in this world, we are going to behave in the other one. That if we are unsatisfied here, we are going to be eternally unsatisfied there as well.
So when we start to see that, we see that the blood changes as well, for bad to better. As more spiritual the person is, much more equilibrated the blood of the person is. Always
Richard: something to think about in our program, isn't there? This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. You're listening on the Positive World Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones, we'll look forward very much to talking to you next time.
Hope you found some value in what we're doing, that you tell your friends about it.
Talk to you next time,
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