Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: We lose a lot of strength and protection if we don't see the danger of the enemy wanting to dominate our lives and dominate society.
Now, the Stop Radio Network presents another episode in our continuing series on Therapeutic Theology with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and Richard Lloyd Jones.
Richard Lloyd Jones: "It's really great to be in our studio again, working. I enjoy a lot to produce our programs.
Cláudia: It's great to meet you,
Richard: Richard." "Well, if it's good for you, then I'm very happy about that." We have been trying to get a handle on a couple of principle ideas before we go too far into the principles of Keppe's exorcism. And the first one, I think, is that Keppe says that man's first mistake comes when he denies that the planet is dominated by demons, not by God, but by demons.
And we talked a little bit about that at the end of the last program.
Cláudia, you mentioned
Cláudia: about... Maybe we should go back a little bit
Richard: more. Yeah, I think so too. You mentioned that, what does it mean to follow demons? You were talking about that. And it's like nobody is consciously going to say, yeah, I believe
Cláudia: in murder and torture and bullying. Nobody believes that consciously. So somehow this sort of... During the timeline, this major issue was being covered up.
We should uncover now this major subject because it has been causing such a disaster in the whole humanity and the planet.
Richard: The fact that demons are operating and we don't see it. Yes. This has
Cláudia: been covered up, even by the church. Even by the church. They used to call this is just a symbol. It's inside man. So we lose a lot of strength and protection and defenses we could have if we don't see the danger of the enemy wanting to come in, like to dominate our lives and dominate society in such a way, Richard, that yesterday I have a client.
She's a very nice woman, and lately she retired to be able to help drug addicts. Valuable work. Valuable work, but philosophically and somehow theologically, she doesn't have sufficient structure and notion of these principles.
Richard: So
Cláudia: she has a good heart,
Richard: but
Cláudia: she doesn't have the... The first one, she said, "I really understood the influence of the devil in that girl because her eyes were so evil and so filled with hatred that it was impossible not to say that this is a demonic person with so much hatred." But the lady, she said, she had such a good look in her eyes and she was, she has so much goodness, but she was like caught in this addiction, substance abuse.
Richard: A victim somehow.
Cláudia: Yes. And she said, so how come then, how do you explain this? Should I say that this person is possessed, is demonized, that we should blame her?
She has so much goodness in her eyes. And I was kind of explaining to her, because she was trying to bring an idea, "how come God allows this to happen? How come
Richard: God led a good person to suffer like this?"
And this is very tricky, very malicious, because people blame God for all the wrong choices humanity has been making and not the devil.
So she blamed God and not the devil. God gave and gives us all conditions and all good to us.
Cláudia: But we have been choosing the devil to govern our paradise. So I told her, you know, "when you elect a dictator, it's elected by the people." We had the problem in Brazil of a very, very negative government. It was elected by the people, democracy.
Richard: A large proportion of the people.
Cláudia: Large portion of the people. So, the people who did not want this president or this government had to suffer under his domain.
Richard: His
Cláudia: unheard domain. Yeah. Because of the choice the majority did. So, we could compare something like this on the planet. God built a paradise. We were in a paradise. We are in a paradise. But the majority is still voting or choosing demons and Lucifer to be the government. And do you see how people can suffer in a wrong government? Oh, boy. All the injustice, all of this evil going around society.
Richard: Corruption everywhere.
Cláudia: It's not if a person is good, but he or she had to submit herself to suffering, social economic suffering. And then the lady said, "Oh, yes." And there is another thing, because she was so good in her look, in her goodness, that even though she was poor, she was trying to get rid of the addiction, but she looked well. Somehow spiritually she was okay.
So she was so good that she felt good. She didn't have this revolt, this anger, this suffering of this adolescent, the first case.
And then she came and said, "yeah, now I recognize that I have so much good in my life. I have all material things. I have culture. I have everything a person could have. And I don't have this well-being that this lady has even in her circumstances." So you see that you go beyond material restrictions and you enter a realm of goodness beauty and truth which is in our inner lives which is transcendental which is spiritual and dictates if we are happy or unhappy.
Are you are
Richard: was she saying then that the the this older woman who has a problem with drug abuse is actually good in
Cláudia: her heart good
Richard: in her heart
Cláudia: good in her heart. She was caught by this and she's trying to get rid of this and but she has so such a good heart that she can be like good and feel like goodness and be if you can say good feel good inside her problems even though she has her problems.
So she's in a better situation we may say. We will not say that she deserves what she has she doesn't. We are unfortunately like in a planet that the majority is choosing this government which is evil government which is the devil and the devil governs through presidents and governments and powerful people and wrong laws and legislators. Economy. Economy.
Richard: Education.
Cláudia: Everything. He is the ruler.
He's the ruler because people are choosing. So what cap is bringing? Come on, people. Wake up. We are choosing.
Richard: If we were not choosing this evil, the evil would not be able to do what it's doing. Could we talk about how we make those choices? Because that's not something that we're sort of sitting down and making a pact, a blood pact with Lucifer.
We're making those decisions in a very subtle way, right? Even if you look at our economy, the economic system is based, any kind of growth is based on environmental destruction.
Anything that leads to growth leads to destruction. So in some way, I see that in that sort of social sense, that we are choosing technology that's destructive. We're choosing…
Cláudia: But you are not choosing, Richard. Yeah. You, can you have a choice between a cell
Richard: phone that destroys your brain
Cláudia: and a good technology? Can you
Richard: do this? No.
Cláudia: We
Richard: cannot. You can't live
Cláudia: without it.
It's a crazy cell phone. We should change all the perception because people, they choose, they don't have choices in many instances. We cannot be without using a cell phone presently. And it destroys our brain. Yeah. This is scientific. So, consciousness must grow in society. And we should, like, quickly, this is an urgent call. We should stop letting the powerful institutions, the powerful people, upside-down people, evil people, destroying the planet.
So we know that toxics applied in food,
Richard: like pesticides, chemical
Cláudia: fertilizers, are poison. They go to the water. But how can we
Richard: cope with this? Because if you go to a
Cláudia: supermarket, the majority of goods you can buy are all poisoned. And you drink and you eat poison.
Richard: Hormones in the meat.
Cláudia: Hormones. So the people in power, they are consciously doing this for profit.
So they are not mistaken. The big mistake they do is that one day or another, they will pay for what they are doing, if they are not already paying, because they are going against their own essence. We have a divine essence. We have a good, beautiful, and truthful structure. If we work against this good essence, we are destroying and killing ourselves little by
Richard: little.
This is the demons in action.
Cláudia: These are the demons in action because they use people in power and they deceive.
You know this Faust
Richard: story? Faust,
Cláudia: sure. Goethe's story of Faust. He made the Faustian bargain. This is true because, you know, people do this choice, but, like, they are not conscious of the spiritual implication. Their consciousness is like… "Clouded?" "Clouded." "Yeah. It's diminished. It's covered up. It's like a hypnotic state."
Richard: Dr. Keppe talks about this. He said this happens, this domination by demons happens with the approval of human beings, of course, who have chosen Lucifer and thus abandoned divine paternity is how he describes it.
But I was thinking of it like you're talking about it now as we're sort of like in a way sort of victimized by this. It's not like so obvious. We're clouded. There was a young woman singer, Cláudia, who was a really talented young singer. I don't want to mention her name. But she said that when she wanted to be famous, she made a pact with the devil.
She was a religious person. She had a religious background. And she said this in a joking way. But it's like that. It's like, "okay, well, then this is what I have to do to be successful in this earthly way, to have money and power and prestige. So I'll start to exploit my body and I'll start to do that to become famous. This
Cláudia: is a Faustian deal." She's inverted.
She's upside down because
Richard: she's seeing all the good that she can possibly have coming from the devil. And the devil is a usurper. Usurper.
Cláudia: Usurper from the goods of God. Everything she has of good came from God and comes from God. It's not the devil who's giving to her. And you know what? The big mistake, as Keppe puts, "Because people generally think of Lucifer as being intelligent, clever, powerful, capable, even beautiful or attractive or magnetic.
But it's everything the opposite."
He is a mentally sick angel. He's a liar. And if we could see him really in front of us, we would be scared of death. I
Richard: was just watching an old TV program that you and Dr. Keppe produced where you guys asked me to speak about me and other people, about our view of religion. And you know what I was talking about?
I'd forgotten about this many years ago, 7, 16 years ago. I remembered Jesus' example because Jesus showed us he was tempted. Yeah. And Lucifer said to him, "all this could be yours." Yeah, ridiculous.
Cláudia: Remember that? It's already his. It was
Richard: Jesus. And Jesus said, "this is nothing. This is not yours." We need to remember that
Cláudia: example. Yes, yes, yes.
Richard: When we're like tempted by these.
Cláudia: Yes. And what happens then? The person starts getting away from God's energy. And all these gifts that God can give to us, we get apart from them.
We get apart from them. So it's not the chastisement, it's getting away from goodness, you know? And
Richard: you said we lose our intelligence when that happens, so we lose our perception.
Cláudia: "Yes, we get like dumbed."
Richard: "Dumbed." "Dumbed."
Cláudia: "Numbed." "Numbed." "Numbed." "Yes, this is the
Richard: good expression. And these tatais, we don't see
Cláudia: anymore." "Yes, yes, yes."
