You know, I was watching Charles Ferguson's Inside Job documentary again on the weekend. I showed it to some friends, actually, and watched their heads nod knowingly. These are pretty astute analysts down here of the social situation. Students and teachers with me of Dr. Norberto Keppe's scientific studies entered the psychosocial causes of our myriad problems on the planet.
They were not surprised at the facts, really, but they were very impressed. At how Charles Ferguson put all that complexity into a coherent package. This is very well done. Essential viewing, I think. You know, down here we received the TNT channel in our cable TV package, and I'm flabbergasted at how many times the Harry Potter or Jason Bourne blockbusters have run.
I think the inside job should be on that kind of rotation as well. But in all the brilliance displayed in inside job, I still think it suffers from not understanding the science of psychosociopathology, which we bring to our show. Consciousness to transform society. Today, I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are, as the Chinese curse goes, living in interesting times. A quick look through the newspaper headlines points it all out in stark black and white.
And if you're like me, maybe you feel the pressure of all this. And I just want to take a moment here at the beginning of the program to reflect on the death of Jack Layton, the leader of the New Democratic Party, Canada's official opposition party, a few days ago. I discovered Jack Layton's work when I moved to Toronto, where he and his wife Olivia Chow were in the thick of social activism in that great city and fighting hard for the poor and underprivileged, and in fact for all of us to have a more just and compassionate country.
Jack Layton, I think, was everything a politician should be, no matter whether you agreed with his political views or not. He was a man who served, and this will be missed. I remember him as a positive man, and although that may have masked deeper problems, almost certainly it did, I appreciated this attempt to lift people with his optimism and humanity. Most of what I'm reading in the Canadian papers makes reference to that, actually.
It was noticeable that he parlayed that into practical results that saw the NDP surpass all expectations and all past results, too, to sweep the party into its best-ever election results earlier this year and into the opposition seat in Canada's Houses of Parliament. You know, last night in my Business English class, I was talking about ethics, and maybe that can help me to bring the circle around to Charles Ferguson, Jack Layton, and Norberto Keppe.
The inside job showed how profoundly unethical is the world of finance and politics these days in North America, particularly the United States. Jack Layton shows us that idealism laced with practicality and service can get results. And Keppe brings the philosophical weight in assuring us that pure action is the essence of human beings. And he also outlines how against goodness we are because of our psycho and mostly sociopathology.
And that's something I want to talk about here at the beginning of the program. Keppe is talking a lot about how we need to awaken people's consciousness before they can transform society. He talks a lot in his books. This is from Work and Capital that I'm referring to now, a great book of his. But he talks a lot in his books about how the powerful have created the laws and imposed them on the people, and how his work is about trying to organize a system that favors the people.
But those who impose the laws have given very little support to Norberto Keppe's work. And that's why we do this radio program and why you need to know about it and why we'd like you to pass it on to other friends and family so that they become part of this vibration of something new, this resonance with something new in Dr. Keppe's work.
You know, it's interesting how the word aggressiveness, if we want to talk about sociopathology, we need to consider this idea of being aggressive. If you look at the New World Dictionary of the American Language, you'll see that the word aggressive is an adjective for boldly hostile, for being bold and active, for being enterprising. So you're seeing here this link with aggressiveness in our language and something constructive.
But really, the people who are aggressive are the least capable and productive because they're interested in exploiting others and having other people work for them.
But you really see that when you move to a country like Brazil. You see a country that produces enormous amounts of products, not just cars for other companies, other countries and companies, but food products and many other actual production that goes on here in Brazil. Countries like Mexico, too. And you see that that's being all the production here is happening and the people here are not having the value or the benefit of that work.
So Dr. Kempi says that he has the impression "there's a kind of fog caused by the socioeconomic system." And this is something that we're really trying to help you to understand here, that socioeconomic power is the major cause of human suffering today. We see that we're working for banks now. Countries are so much in debt all over the world. And that money that we're in debt for is money that's been borrowed from banks, mostly from private banks.
So we're all working huge amounts of hours and huge amounts of time just to pay banks. And so we have a situation that's very, very difficult because we're actually being obliged to work like slaves for the powerful. And our possibilities for action are just so reduced. The labor market is restricted and blocked that we can't dedicate ourselves to sane activity like research for its own sake, mutual help, free work.
If you want to do anything that benefits society, if you work inside a company and you have an idea for a social project to benefit society, it'd be very difficult to sell that to your management unless they can see some public relations benefit of doing that. If you want to do things that benefit society, it's very, very difficult to get the kind of support that you need to go ahead and do that.
Anybody who works as a social activist can realize what I'm speaking about there. The social environment is extremely coercive today because it was created by the powerful out of envy of the people, envy of the people who work. And so we see these useless laws, this excessive policing, this enormous accumulation of public debt I was referring to. Our horizons are very, very limited.
So we're pressured into a kind of coercive type of existence, professions that are lucrative only for the powerful, standardized homes, vacations, entertainment. Most of humankind has nothing to do because all of its wealth has been taken over, usurped by the powerful. And, you know, you can see this, sort of the white breading of our cultural heritage. You know, pop culture is all that we consume and we consume what makes money for the most powerful.
So we're even limited in our cultural choices these days. We're being forced to work to make the powerful rich. We're being forced to work in inhuman activities, in services that are often completely unnecessary for the well-being of society. It's a sad picture, isn't it? And so we need to start understanding this very much. If you want to see and look into this a little bit more, to see how the economic system has become so corrupted, so in the hands of the powerful and the area of financial speculation.
Just do a little research, if you want to do this, on the Nobel Prizes in economics for the last 30 years or so. Start about 1979, 1980, and just have a look, if you will, at the Nobel Prizes for Economic Sciences. You'll see almost all of them are linked to economic fluctuations, economic policies, financial markets, industrial structures and the functioning of markets, systems of national accounts, pioneering analysis of saving and financial markets, the development of contractual and constitutional bases for the theory of economic and political decision-making, the theories of economic growth.
All of the Nobel Prizes for economics have gone towards encouraging this economic hell that we live in of speculation, money for money's sake, to the point where we've stopped working. And this is really something that Norberto Keppe's work can help us to understand. I really encourage you to do more listening to our programs, but more reading of Keppe's books, too. His three seminal books on economics and the social setup today in North America are fundamental reading.
The Decay of the American People and of the United States, Liberation of the People, and Work and Capital.
They're very strongly recommended, and I hope you can take advantage of those books and have a read-through. Well, we're going to have a short first part of our program today, shorter than normal, because I want to get to Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco very quickly with some optimistic and a very therapeutic look at the state of our world.
We'll do that when we come back.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Don't go away. We're coming right back.
And after a couple of weeks absence, we've missed you. Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is back. I just want you
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: to know that you've been missed. Thanks, Scott. You're here.
You're still here.
Richard: Bob Butler is joining us, too. Bob. Good morning, Richard. Good morning, doctor. Always great to have you
Cláudia: on the program. Good morning, Bob. I
Richard: was working on Dr. Keppe's book, Work and Capital, on the weekend. Right. We're revising this book. Monene Daly Hart and I are working hard to try and get this revised.
So, because we don't have any copies in English of that book.
Can you believe it? It's like
Cláudia: there's no...
Work and Capital? Yeah, there's no books around. We can't find them anywhere. So, if you have one, if you're listening and you
Richard: have one, send it to us. And I found a chapter... But
Cláudia: you have it in PDF, don't you?
Richard: We have it in PDF. So if people want it, they can certainly have it in that way. Maybe there's a couple of copies in the United States with...
Cláudia: Or in England.
Richard: Or maybe in England.
Cláudia: Yeah. Now a
Richard: storehouse in England. Yeah. Storage. Yeah. If people are interested after this in the book, we can get it to them. But Bob and I were looking at this, too, and I published a little excerpt on my Facebook page. And had incredible response to it. Did you? Yeah, people were cutting it and pasting it.
And so I thought I would just read that and we could start with that. Because the title of the chapter I like is, We Must Awaken People's Consciousness Before They Can Transform Society.
And I think this is important because when I talk with my students, maybe Bob notices this too, working with the students, sometimes they say, but is consciousness enough? Don't we have to, you know, like, go in the streets? So I want to deal with that issue. And Dr. Keppe said here, it's a fantastic little piece of this chapter. Dr. Keppe says, "I have the impression that there is a kind of fog caused by the socioeconomic system that takes over the minds of people and systematically stifles any manifestation of human intelligence.
We have to break through this veil of obscurity, and the only way is by doing work that is good and useful for humanity."
Cláudia: That's right, Richard.
Richard: Isn't that beautiful?
Cláudia: This is wonderful. This is wonderful. And it's amazing because we see this more and more, that people are like drugged or like their consciousness are diminished or
Richard: they are in this limbo.
Almost like lobotomized or something, like they
Cláudia: can't react anymore. Yes. So when we want to protest or, as you said, go to the streets or do anything or work for a change, we must, first of all, recognize or feel that there is something wrong to be corrected. "If people don't realize that their lives is not correct, it's not the best lives they could be, that they are mistaken." And this is amazing because people cannot compare the life they have now, they live, and the life as it used to be in the past.
It's such a difference. And some of us that are already older people, right? Yes. We can sometimes recollect when we hear music or when we see a picture of the past, when we watch a movie of the past. So we think, oh, my God, how life was much better at that time and how much or how I was different. I felt differently.
I lived differently. I vibrated differently than I live and vibrate now.
Richard: It's very funny, when I talk about this in the classroom, I sometimes feel like I'm channeling my father, because my father used to say that, you know. And so the danger here is that people think, oh, you're an old fuddy-duddy, you know,
Cláudia: always wanting things from the past. Yes. What about the modern times?
Yes, Richard, how can
we deal
Richard: with this? This is such
Cláudia: a... What
Richard: do you think about this? This is really difficult. But anyhow, we have to understand some of the basics that even Jesus brought, or the philosophers, or Keppe in his psychopathological studies, that we left behind the most vibrational feelings.
Cláudia: And if you ask a youngster today about feelings, this is an area that they don't know really how to deal with.
Because they can deal more with emotions, anger, veracity.
As those people in England, they were dealing more with veracity than even with anger. They are not revolted, seems so, against anything. They are enjoying the destruction they are promoting. They are voraciously enjoying, like playfully enjoying the destruction that they learned through these games, video games. Yeah, sure. How much enjoy, like how much pleasurable can be
Richard: to
Cláudia: destroy things and people and burn things and explode things.
So if you have a little reason left in your brain, you will understand that there is something wrong in here. And people are starting to speak more and more gradually that society is sick. Society is sick. English society is sick. The parliament members are starting to admit British society is sick. And what kind of sickness is this? This is the sickness, Keppe, you have been bringing to our attention since a long time, the psychosociopathology, the pathology of society brought by psychological problems that now took over most of the social structures.
So if you think about feelings and love and sharing beauty. Now, on the other hand, Richard, more and more, the researchers are seeing the connection between healing and, for instance, hearing good music and having faith and having hope and doing good. And even classical music, they are bringing this up again to the attention of people, saying that people can get cured of cancer and other diseases and increase their immune system through this connection with arts and aesthetics.
So it seems that on the other hand, if in one side people are getting more and more sick and disconnected, On the other side, it seems that some individuals are entering in resonance with those trilogical concepts more and more.
Richard: Yeah, it's interesting because this is a universal thing. It's not something that's like old-fashioned. If it's something that's beautiful, it's something that's beautiful.
Cláudia: It's scientific. So if your students call
Richard: you old-fashioned, we have to remind them
Cláudia: that this is science. This is not being backward. This is being scientific, experimental, realistic, having common sense.
Richard: Bob, I noticed you leaning towards the microphone. Maybe you had something you were going to ask and then didn't. Or say or comment. Yes.
No, when Dr. Mentioned the music, I immediately thought of a hospital that I know of, a teaching institution in the United States in Milwaukee.
And in their hospice care center, what they've begun to do, these people are terminal, they've given up on themselves, but they now bring in a cellist to play the cello. And it's amazing when they interviewed the families of the patient that they themselves felt peace and felt comfort. It's only for 30 or 40 minutes, but they come in, and the lady plays the cello and plays beautifully, and at that point in time and during that time, they no longer think of the sickness.
They enjoy the music. There's a link there. We should do that in our English classes maybe too, Bob. Someone made a suggestion that I thought was really great. We should be piping
Cláudia: classical music out into the foyer here at a low volume just uh you know to bring peace to people. And he speaks so beautifully, his language isn't
it, it's beautiful. Yeah yes so beauty uh enters in our senses through our senses and not only physical senses but also energetic senses of the soul.
We are an energetic being so
Cláudia: we respond very quickly to beauty because it's part of our essence. So we need to go back to the basis of civilization, to the old greeks for instance, to the old wise civilized people, and they are not backwarded at all. They are intelligent, developed, cosmic-minded people.
Richard: We thought the idea of these old values became sort of obsolete or something.
It's really a sickness in our 20th century, 21st century it happened, isn't it? We started to dismiss the things of beauty and say, ah, that's for my old parents, you know, not for me, I'm a modern...
Cláudia: Not understanding that beauty is part of our essence and it's part of the functioning of nature. Nature cannot function without beauty and aesthetics.
Richard: There's a scene that Alexandre Frascari, one of the people who works very deeply with the Keppe Motor, brought to us of Bobby McFerrin, who's a great artist from the United States, doing an experience with an audience where he was jumping on the stage and sounding a note.
And the audience would sing the note with him, and then he'd go to the next note and teach them. And then he'd go between those two, bouncing between those two notes, and then he'd go to the third note without singing it, the audience knew.
And he demonstrates how the audience knows intuitively all of these notes, which correspond to the black keys on the piano, the pentatonic scale, how the audience knows this intuitively. He
Cláudia: says "it doesn't matter where he goes, any audience can do that without being taught all the notes." So it's something that's inside us, Cláudia, beauty, harmony. It's not something that was just invented, you know.
Universe is beauty. Universe is music, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, this is beautiful. This is really beautiful to say and to conscientize and brings inner peace, inner harmony.
Richard: Because any musician knows that, or anybody knows, if you're
Cláudia: listening to... Ah, speaking about musician, now we can bring back that subject of Amy Winehouse. Amy Winehouse
Richard: that we
talked about a couple of weeks ago.
Yes, I want to make a correction.
Yes.
Cláudia: After we recorded that program, we commented with Dr. Keppe what we have spoken about. About the fact that people were
Richard: attracted. And
the attraction people had for pathology and disgrace. And I don't take this away totally and fully because those tabloids, they sell a lot. And also many things sell.
Cláudia: But Dr. Keppe mentioned that even for a person that is destructive like Amy Winehouse, the success she was able to maintain and to increase was mostly due to her healthy part, to the beauty of her singing and her voice.
Because if she didn't maintain the beauty in her voice and her singing, she would not be able to keep her success. What a point. And some people were doing some observations that the past shows that she gave and she was not able to sing anymore. People did this via...
Richard: They booed.
Cláudia: They booed her.
Very
Richard: merciless booed her. Very, very merciless Buddha. Yeah. So there's something very important about what she brought of beauty, of harmony, of incredible talent that really attracted people. And maybe there's kind of
Cláudia: a fascination as well with watching the person go through a self-destructive part. But what we love in the person is what they do of beauty, of goodness. This is what Dr.
Keppe was saying. Yeah, so even the evil things, they are supported by the goodness that is godly or divine, goodness in people. Even, well, evil is not by itself existing. Evil is the destruction of goodness. Evil is destruction of health, of beauty. So maybe people enjoy destroying their own, enjoy in terms of pleasure, seek pleasure, destroying their own beauty. So they resonate with this, that they are destroying their own talents, and they see this through Amy Winehouse.
This
Richard: is interesting. I have to take a break but I want to make a comment about this from a TV program I was watching yesterday where really this exact point hit me, so we'll do that when we come back. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, we are back in just a moment.
Okay, coming back in a moment. We are back. It's Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Richard Lloyd Jones with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and our good friend Bob Butler, who's with us for a short period of time more, right?
Bob, not through September. Through the middle, I think, September 10th.
Cláudia: And he's a kind of having a sad face, thinking about his leaving already.
Richard: Seems like I just got here.
Yes,
Cláudia: Bob.
Richard: Well, you're always welcome back.
You know that. Yes.
Cláudia: I appreciate it. I was watching a TV show, a series from the United States called Mad Men about advertising in the 1950s and 60s, Cláudia.
And this is a program of lots of excess. The guys drink too much. They're womanizing all the time. And they have this life where, like on the surface, like the advertising world, you know, on the surface, everything looks wonderful, beautiful.
They have their home with their lovely wife and their two kids. But behind, they're always trying to find other women, to drink themselves into oblivion, to try to fill maybe something that's not really there. They don't have a real experience.
Richard: And last night, the program I was watching, one of the leading actors in the show had a heart attack in the TV show.
The character had a heart attack. And you can't believe the consciousness that it brought to everybody in the in the tv show.
Now they don't know how to talk about that but you could see that everybody was going through a process of conscientizing, something was missing in their lives. From the result of this guy having a heart attack, one, the guy who had a heart attack realized that he hadn't shown much love to his wife and daughter. So he's having this experience in the hospital of realizing how much he really loves his wife and his daughter.
His best friend is having an enormous consciousness that he's not happy in his marriage, that things aren't going the way he portrays on the surface. The office strumpet, the girl who sleeps with everybody, is having enormous consciousness that she's throwing her life away. It's very interesting what's happening as a result of this bad thing. So when you talked in our first segment about how we um we it that evil depends on good, i was thinking about that, that the it's the goodness that we return to when we
Cláudia: have crisis this morning Richard.
I was talking to a client. She lives in Sweden and she's a therapist and she gives conferences and she speaks to the public. Well, she holds seminars, classes about Analytical Trilogy there. And she was doing and making a comment that now in Sweden, there is a new method that is on the rise, which speaks about solutions, treating people like through solutions, giving solutions.
Richard: Solution-based therapy, solution-based workshops.
Cláudia: Have you heard about that?
Richard: I haven't, but I can certainly imagine.
Cláudia: An American, North American orientation? I think so. And she was doing a comment about the superficiality of this and how much people are rejecting to see the problems that exist. And she was doing like a comment and saying, well, we don't want to see the problems, we don't want to see mistakes that we do, so on and so forth.
And then I was thinking that in reality, our therapy should not be focused really on problems. The problems we focus on are in order to heal what is not right, in order to jump as fast as possible to what is good, to pure act. So instead of calling our method therapy through consciousness of psychopathology or consciousness of errors or consciousness of problems, okay, this is important, we need to see our envy, we need to see our arrogance, we need to see our negativity, our depression, so on and so forth.
But we should not stay on this, focusing and fixing on this, because in reality what heals is pure action. We could say that Kepis therapy is mostly action or healing through pure action. If you perform a pure action, you don't need to see the denial of this, Because this is very subtle. It's very subtle.
Pathology is the denial of pure action. If you go directly to pure action, you can even see better. How much you were denying pure action in the past. So it is always important to push yourself to do good actions. Even if you are depressed, even if you are discouraged, even if you think, well, this is not worthwhile, it will not work. Well, but do it.
Because when you do a pure action, and this is the basis of our essence, our essence is pure action. And this comes from Aristotle even, from the ancient wise man. A long time ago. A long time ago. People who lived closer to the previous civilization as God created them. And so this notion has been swept away from our books, our movies, our everyday life.
Pure action.
Richard: Let me tell you something that I noticed in my good friend Bob Butler when he works with the students.
He's intuitively doing what you're talking about. He doesn't work so much with the problem the student has. He works on building their confidence. And the students leave the classes many times, like, energized, like, feeling good about, wow, I'm managing to do. Because what happens in language classes most of the time is that people deny what they know. They reject.
Cláudia: And they fix in their mistakes.
Yes. They get hooked. "I don't say, I cannot speak, I make
Richard: this mistake," and then, Bob, go ahead. Yeah, Bob has this technique, not even a technique, a way of being with them.
The other day, we had a private student, and she was experiencing what a lot of the students do, a lack of confidence, didn't think she had the ability. And during the course of the hour, everything she said, I understood.
Her pronunciation was more than acceptable by any standard.
And at the end, she really thought I spoke Portuguese. To the point where I had to take her to one secretary and then to another and have them tell her that I didn't speak very little Portuguese, if any. And her face just lit up. I really think she thought she talked the whole time in Portuguese. And she walked across
Cláudia: the street and she
came back again to congratulate.
Now, what I do, I really don't know. All I know is it's action. It seems,
Cláudia: Bob, that your energy, your vibration brings them a lot of benefit. It's not that much what you say and what you express verbally, the exercises you use, but it's your energy, your love, meaning you want them to learn, you want to help them. So this is the true love, helping people,
and that's pure action.
At least
Cláudia: in my
country I think there's a lot of that lacking and if people would just touch that in their lives I think they could be surprised.
Now, I'll be candid and tell you when I go home, it's a challenge. It's different there than it is here. Here inside this energy, right, where we do this every day. Yes, it's different. It's a challenge. It was a challenge, as you know, for me last year when I came. To keep that link, to keep that resonance, that vibration. That's the challenge.
And again, as I hear you speak, the real thing that we need to do is just be in pure action. Because when people are ill, they don't move around, and then they wonder why they don't get better. But when they get going and get moving, they do get better.
Cláudia: That's how the United States was built as an incredible nation in the past.
Because there were doers, doers of good action. All of North America, all the good values were built upon the good and pure actions of its citizens.
And then evil doers, evil powerful people took advantage from this incredible beautiful structure that immigrants had developed and many American-born citizens developed in the country. So this was the true United States that we wanted to help, not to decline, not to decay as it is in the moment. Because an economic decay, it's not something economical just or alone. It's not economy that brings decline or decadence to a country.
It's the decadence of its citizens that brings the economic decline. So this is something that is important to see. And the decline was that they started to deny the value of the pure action and the good deeds that they performed in the past. You don't build a nation with this structure just by playing or sleeping or taking drugs or smoking or whatever, having fun and traveling.
You have to work with love and endurance to build a nation the way you built it in the past.
And there's many examples of that in the United States where the immigrants, like in Chicago, they built the city along with other nationalities. They reversed the flow of the Chicago River. I mean, some monumental things.
Cláudia: Monumental things, you are right. And the universities you built there, huge campuses, beautiful, useful, incredible. And presently, I heard by an American client that those campuses are now almost forbidden for the average American citizen because they cost so much that they get, like, all wrapped up in the debts they have to...
Richard: $100,000 in debt when they leave university or
Cláudia: more. Yeah, and the insurance, the
Richard: loans, and
how
Cláudia: do you say what you have to pay for?
Interest. Interest. The interest on the loans.
Cláudia: Yeah, and so expensive, and things that in the past cost nothing or very little. This is something absolutely...
Richard: So in psychological terms...
Cláudia: I
Richard: don't want you to get depressed about this, Bob. I feel that this subject
causes such a depression to United States citizens.
Cláudia: But who knows, who knows what is going to happen still. Well,
Richard: I think it's important to see what's going on there.
Cláudia: And it's not only in the United States, it's
Richard: all over. And you know what's really interesting about that, if it has been kind of a destruction of that, it's not so difficult to return.
Well, it is difficult because we lose the habit, right, like we lose our muscles, but it's not so difficult to return to what built the country. It
Cláudia: is. It is difficult, Richard. It is difficult.
Richard: This is the problem. And
Cláudia: it is as difficult as for a person who went too far in its negative habits to go back to health.
Richard: So is this what causes the depression?
Cláudia: And this is something, because if you have the strength to start doing something good, and then your consciousness increases, and then you start saying, oh my God, look, now I want to do something good and I feel the difficulties and enormous difficulties.
So this is like a discouragement for people to start back again and they give up. And we should try hard to get united all those who still have something left in terms of good energy, in terms of good action and pure action, to get together and make this enormous sacrifice in order to help what is still to be saved in the country or in the world.
Now we speak in worldly terms and we see that we are on the verge of something very serious. We feel that something extremely somber is near. Because we are already living a lot of somber things.
Richard: Let's talk about that when we come back, because I think that you have some things you could talk about there that might help give us encouragement, Cláudia, and a view of what's happening in the world.
We're back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Don't go away.
The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on our website at heatingthroughconsciousness.com, streaming through iTunes and Facebook, all those kind of social networking things. Do get in touch with us there, because we actually have some very interesting conversations going on on our Facebook page from people who are making comments about our programs and various ideas that are coming up. But you alluded before the break, Cláudia, to the something somber, intense happening.
I don't know if it's just me. I feel it enormously, a pressure that I feel. Sometimes in my stomach, sometimes in my head, I feel this pressure to do more, to be more focused, to not waste any time, to make sure these programs go out regularly. It's a tremendous sacrifice, hard work for us to put these programs together. It takes editing and production time and getting them out to people.
You know, you sometimes wonder, is it worth it? You know, here we are talking for 45 minutes and intense things. And so I feel very much this. What are you feeling about that? How are you dealing with that, understanding that?
Cláudia: You feel the need to help because it's kind of this thing of the quickening, right? Yes. The quickening thing that we see that choices must be made and we don't have that much time.
Because some kind of confrontation seems to be coming. And there are those who want the good for humanity and there are those who want the good, between quotes, just for themselves. And this group became very powerful and they took over many sectors of civilization. And so at this point the good people seem to be without too many means to defend themselves. But we have the strength of consciousness and we have the strength of the good energy we possess.
If you, if you are at the side of being good and doing good, we get a kind of protection, energetic, physical protection. And we also have now to count on transcendental factors. If we cannot do something by our own conditions and means, we have to have the faith that we can do it through God. And science cannot work without God, anything can work without God or nothing.
"Nothing
Richard: can work without
Cláudia: God. Nothing can work without God and His power." So it seems that we are powerless, we are defenseless. But if you see it in a broader spectrum, in a larger length of time, in the near future, we will see that goodness will prevail. And not only because of prophecies, not only because of the Bible, because the Bible says this, but because of science, that reality is essentially good and beautiful and truthful.
So reality by itself, by nature, by its laws, is good, beautiful and truthful.
Therefore, we, which are eternal beings, if we choose to be in resonance with this vibration, we don't have to fear anything. Even if we would lose our bodies, this would mean very little.
Richard: And even if it doesn't appear that it's going to be okay. Dr. Keppe said in one of his books, something that really struck me, he said "there are a certain few people in history who had the good fortune to realize the enormous benefits of doing good." And I think this is interesting.
He talks about them being fortunate to realize that doing good has a benefit. Because
Cláudia: it's not always so obvious. No. Generally, we know that after a decade or two decades or a century or some centuries that that person had such an influence in civilization. Da Vinci, for instance, at his time, he was so much persecuted, humiliated and now we speak about Da Vinci as a genius that influenced humanity so much and also the philosophers of the Illuminism or the centuries of light how do you say this?
Richard: We call this the Illuminist philosophers,
Cláudia: the Illuminist philosophers. They had their heads cut off at the time.
Richard: Thomas Morris
Cláudia: had his head cut off. So not only them, we of course, we, we can speak about all the, the good men in, in history, all the good men and women. At the time they lived and struggled, they probably thought, am I doing enough, will have any effect, my actions will have any effect, good effect or meaningful effect on human beings, humanity, society.
And later on we see how much or how important any good action is.
Richard: So they were, they were fighting in their ideals for a better time. Heroes is, is that better time, yeah, heroes are those, heroes is the time they were fighting for. Now do you think is now the time that all these people were...
Cláudia: They are together with us. This is what you mean?
Richard: Yes. And also, is this the time when we can actually have what they were trying to achieve for all those years?
Cláudia: We can join them in this fight and we can testify or witness the change. I think that many of us will be able to testify. I don't know about me, but many of those who are presently living in the planet, they will be able to testify, to be witnesses
Richard: to
Cláudia: how much goodness will prevail.
And this is because of logic, because evil has no essence in itself. So no matter who is left and what is left, will be good.
Richard: It can never win evil, evil can never win, for sure. So if we're doing something for good, we're on the right side.
Cláudia: Yes, and we will not disappear. Here we will maybe temporarily lose our bodies for a time, and if we are dedicated to good action and pure action, we will resurrect or we will receive back again a body that will be even more beautiful than today.
Because if we dedicate ourselves to pure action, And we will receive through the energy, the source, the major source of energy, the essential energy source, which is God. We will receive back His energy and recuperate bodies that will be really beautiful. And it depends on the choices. We will recover the bodies as we deserve them. So evil people that are
evil in their intentions here and are still beautiful, plastic surgeries, exercising, cosmetics, good food, beautiful clothing, good genetics.
When they come back
Richard: with the body, their body will resemble their intentions, will show up very clearly. So I'm having a consciousness as you're speaking that maybe what Dr. Keppe was talking about in terms of the good fortune these people had to realize the enormous benefits of doing good, they had a little more contact with this universal, essential element, that they're timeless, that they're outside.
And
Cláudia: this is so beautiful, Richard, because it's not religion. It is also giving credit to religious writings and knowledge, to theology. But it is pure science. It's new physics. So it's really beautiful.
Richard: The new physics being?
Cláudia: To understand God through his science. Because God is not a religious being. He's all wisdom and all scientific and all philosophical, all, all theological, he's all, everything.
So he must be an incredible scientist too, and he is, and he teaches his science. And
Richard: as we resonate with that energy, we have these things that you're talking about, this more eternal life, this more contact with these eternal values
Cláudia: and with all the people from the past and the future who've also been resonating with that? So people who are faithful, for instance, they have a religion, they're Catholic, they pay attention to some messages of the Holy Mother, or if they are Protestant, or if they are Evangelic, and they follow the prophecies of the Bible, the Testaments, or if they are Islamic, and they follow the Koran, or if they are Jewish, and they are waiting for the...
They will be taken during the rapture by these pieces of hair they grow.
Well,
Cláudia: everybody has their own faith and their own prophecies. So understanding the prophecies through science, through the true science, it's so encouraging. It's really encouraging.
Do you feel encouraged, Bob? I do. There's some powerful words being expressed here. Faith through understanding. Understanding. Goodness. Truth. And beauty. And pure good action.
If only we as humans would just grab on to those, it would be a marvelous ride for whatever journey we have left in us. And believe that it's
Richard: not an old fogey idea. This is something that's totally relevant.
Cláudia: It's futuristic. It's cosmic.
Richard: It's the most relevant, the most, I say sometimes to my students, you know, doing good is really cool. It's like it's cool today.
Cláudia: It's not like an old-fashioned idea.
It's something that really makes sense for our lives. Yes. And, of course, we are not going to be taken by what we dress, the hair we have, or the name we have in the books of some churches. If we give the money for the pastor or the priest every weekend, but because of the pure actions that we perform. So if we really realize this, we will always think we are doing too little, too little.
We could do more. We should do more. We could do more. Because then we would live like in heaven here already in accordance to our essence. What
Richard: a beautiful conversation. You'll come back next week and we can continue?
Cláudia: Yes, God willing. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is produced at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil.
Our email is joneshealing at gmail.com. If you like what you hear, pass it on. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Great to have you listening and talk to you next time.
