Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking With Somebody Else's Head. We're just out of the Easter period and some reflections. It's a tough week for the faithful. The burning of Notre Dame, striking hard in that major center of Christian faith for 800-something years. Then the bombs exploding in Christian churches and popular hotels in Sri Lanka on Easter Sunday. Apparently in retaliation for those terrible attacks on mosques in New Zealand back in March. Does this hit you at all?
Maybe it all seems so far away, right? After all, there are bills to pay and potholes to fix and renovations to do right here in our own daily worlds. Who's got time for another act of terrorism or environmental disaster or burning building? Difficult to put the pieces together. The media smotherage brings us constant updates of facts and figures, additional images and numbers that expand exponentially and overwhelm our capacity to filter and understand. Seems we're poor human ruins tottering over the grave, as Blake described it.
Testing times. Dark spirituality and victimization today on Thinking With Somebody Else's Head. We've been renewing our efforts to produce programs more regularly, like we did in the past when Thinking With Somebody Else's Head began. I tried to, like, for a show a week back then. 2006. Man, it doesn't seem possible. I've been producing programs for that long. More evidence that time really does fly, and there's a lot to do. This is something like Program 183, if I haven't got my numbers mixed up.
Although it's possible I did, as I often do, which is why I pay an accountant to do my income tax. Don't want to trust that to my own calculations. But since Dr. Norberto Keppe's publishing of two monumental books, Psychotherapy and Exorcism and Sociotherapy and Exorcism, Dr. Claudia Bernhard Pacheco and I have felt the urgency to renew our efforts in these programs. We're trying to provide some support to Kepi's initiatives in shining light on the principal factor that underpins all of the problems facing us today.
and yesterday too, which Kepi has identified as spiritual. We're in a spiritual battle on our planet. Simple as that. Didn't Jesus warn us about that some 2,000 years ago? Kepi is picking up that mantle and developing a science to treat it. And this is what we try to explain and explore in our programs. And I realize I haven't reached out so much in our latest programs to let you know how to get in touch with us. Let me do that now.
The program is Thinking With Somebody Else's Head.
We stream on the STOP radio network, and we're now a radio station affiliated with a college, the Kepi Pacheco Trilogical College, based in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
It would be really great to hear from you. So let's dig into our highly relevant subject today, Dark Spirituality and Victimization with Claudia Bernhard-Pasheko when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns in just a moment
on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to the Stop Radio Network. We broadcast from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in Sao Paulo, Brazil. And our programs, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness, offer the most relevant conversations around about the state of our world and what we can do to make it better.
A key inversion in science.
Cesar Soós: Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element.
Richard: And its negative consequences.
Cesar: We provoke serious imbalances in nature.
Richard: Corrected now with the Kepi Motors disinversion of physics.
Cesar: And we developed a way to have mechanical power with very little electricity.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: This will make a big change, not only in energetic efficiency, but also it will bring better energy in homes because it's magnetic energy.
Richard: The Kepi Motor, new technology for a new world.
Home
to thinking with somebody else's head, healing through consciousness, analyzing the 1% and the conscious company.
Richard: The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network, streaming all over the place. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones with Claudia Bernhardt-Pacheco. Both of us a little subdued today. Following, as you're listening to this program, it'll be about a week later, the fire at Notre Dame. in Paris. And I was reflecting on this because I come from a culture in Canada. I don't know
about a full culture. I can't say that. But certainly where I grew up and the circle of friends I grew up with, Claudia, we didn't give much value to religion.
Cláudia: Not anymore.
Richard: No. You
Cláudia: used to.
Richard: I think we used to, yeah. They've even made a big movement to take the words, the sort of spiritual words, out of the national anthem and these kinds of movements in Canada. And it struck me that when I saw this that it strikes very, very deep to see a church like that burning.
We may think that we have no spiritual values, but in fact, it's something that every human being has. And when we see a church burning, it seems like
Cláudia: an attack somehow, something deep inside. It is, not only to the spiritual values, but historical, cultural, artistic.
Richard: Who we are as a nation,
Cláudia: yeah. So when they were planning to take away in this chart of this European community, they took away this notion that Europe was built on Christianity, all the culture.
So they wanted to sweep away all notions of Christianity. And I remember an atheist historian, they said...
Richard: It's also funny, an atheist historian sounds so crazy.
Cláudia: A real historian. You know, but he was saying, this is a monstrous attitude, because who can, that is in his mind...
Richard: His right mind.
Cláudia: Saying that we will take away from history the influence of Christianity in law, in culture, arts, development, everything, civilization, European civilization was built upon Christianity for centuries and centuries and millennia, two millennia.
Richard: Exactly right. A student was saying to me this morning, we were talking about this, and she said, but it's so interesting how the developed countries, there are a lot of atheists there. And I said, yeah, but you know what? Those cultures were totally built on Christian values. Absolutely. Being good to your neighbor. It's inside the constitutions. It's inside all of the declarations. When you swear your allegiance to a country, you swear your allegiance to God, to values, to something.
The whole system is based on that. How we can just dismiss it is totally crazy. Even arts. Even arts.
Cláudia: Even visual arts, music, dance, theater, movies, everything. Everything. And
Richard: isn't it interesting, in times of crisis, no matter how atheistic we are, we call for God. Do you remember the movie we were watching about Carla Homolka and
Cláudia: Paul Bernardo?
Richard: And suddenly they were
Cláudia: realizing the horror of their actions, and they were saying, Oh God, oh God, oh God, oh Jesus, God, Jesus.
All the time? All the time. So denying this seems to be a stupidity, not only a lack of faith, like a crazy, like a
Richard: mishu.
Cláudia: How do you say this in English?
Richard: Oh, like an absolute garbage. Something so... Mishu. Piqueun.
Cláudia: In Portuguese, mishu is so good
Richard: to speak. So piqueun, so small,
Cláudia: so insignificant. Insignificant. So when I remember what Notre Dame was to France and to the world, and is, I lived in France
Richard: for seven
Cláudia: years, you know.
I lived and worked, and I used to go to Notre Dame during this Holy Week. on Friday, the Holy Friday, we had all those queues of people waiting to... Thousands of people waiting to
Richard: get
Cláudia: into the... Yeah, to watch, to see this crown
Richard: of
Cláudia: thorns,
Richard: the robe, pieces of the cross that they have there. The
Cláudia: cross, the wood of the cross. The nails. And you know something? When we got near these objects, we could absolutely feel
such a tremendous magnetism in those objects. I felt that many times. So we see all this believing in goodness, in truth, in beauty, being dissolved, being dismantled. And yesterday, at the same time, this horror scene.
Richard: Horrible. It
Cláudia: was a horror scene. It was taking place on all TVs. We knew that a mosque, Islamic church, was burning at the same time in Jerusalem. So we think, is this a false flag? Is this another attempt of this so-called elite of the New World Order trying to create and to feed anger and religious war because they want the population to diminish?
They don't want this population to grow so uncontrolled. And not only this, but they live on drugs, on arms, on wars. So they destroy and they loan money to people so they pay, like, interest.
Richard: They destroy countries and they loan money to the countries to rebuild the countries. Exactly. It's unbelievable. This
Cláudia: is their game. This is their game. And people fall into this game. This is so sad because brothers and sisters and countries and peoples, they fight exactly as a result of the intention of the powerful, the evil powerful that rule all nations, that rule the world, especially now the new world order, which Malachi Martin used to say is the satanic new world order.
And we feel this. We can feel it. It's an anti-Christ, anti-God civilization. That's right. And
Richard: anti-human. This is even so clear. It's anti-human. And one of the things that I felt as I was watching these scenes of the fire, I felt this hopelessness come over me. And maybe this is another.
Cláudia: Too much, isn't it? Too much, isn't it? Too
Richard: big for us to fight. Yeah. They attack this too. They even take away hope. If this is, you know, if it's not happening as a direct consequence of terrorism or these
Cláudia: kinds of acts, somehow it's a spiritual attack.
There's some kind of… There's absolutely. You can almost feel Lucifer laughing, you know, while the church is burning, you know. Absolutely. This maniacal laughter that you hear in the movies. Because most of these people, they are not like, they don't, it's not that they are not absolutely spiritual, they are, but they are in a different way. They are in an evil spirituality. You cannot be non-spiritual, you cannot be just an animal, live totally as an animal.
You must have some sort of spirituality. The thing is that your spirituality, if it's not a true spirituality, linked to goodness, beauty, and truth, linked to Jesus Christ, to the Holy Trinity, to their values, if we are not linked to this, we will be linked to anger, to projection, to death, the culture of death and suffering and pain and suicide and violence and murder and,
Richard: like, perversion.
Cláudia: Yeah,
Richard: the dominance of the will
Cláudia: as the satanic. And, like, animalistic wishes and
Richard: behavior,
wanting to bring down mankind to the level of
Cláudia: just animals. And this is a very dark spirituality. Because you cannot be without your soul. You have it. You cannot take away. So if you're not bringing light to it, it will be dark, and you will suffer the darkness, and people around you will suffer your darkness. It's unavoidable. So if they could eliminate their soul, their consciousness, they would, but they cannot. So it's an inner struggle all the time to hide it, to hide it, and hide it, and hide it.
This morning I was talking to a client. She lives in the United States. She lost her husband, and he was a great guy. He was a great man. As many men, as many men in the world, they are great guys. He was
a
Richard: fireman, right? Yes,
Cláudia: and a pianist.
Richard: He was a piano-playing fireman. That's about
Cláudia: as high a value as you can get. So he was not able to play that much anymore and to compose as he wished.
because he had an accident in one of the fire, the fights that he was leading. Okay, but she was talking about God and being linked to God, because she misses her husband very much. But you know, what she misses in reality is that this notion, when I asked her, what do you free associate your husband with? And she said, love or endless love, stability, and the third thing that I forget now. So what she depends on now
is on her own feelings of love and her own stability that comes from her feelings of love. Every time she cuts off with these inner feelings, like feelings of love, they exist by themselves, you know, inside of us. She doesn't need her husband to love. She can feel feelings of love by herself. And when she cuts this from her life, she loses her stability totally. And she cannot go to church just to ask God to bring her to a better situation.
She will have to relink to feelings of love inside of herself. So a church doesn't mean anything in this situation if the person doesn't have an inner life, an inner attitude, spiritual attitude. Yeah,
Richard: that's something deep because we think that it's coming from the church or even the Bible or these sayings and it's
Cláudia: a deeper internal
Richard: experience. The Bible, it reminds us, like reminding things to us, our reminders.
But we have this inside of us anyhow.
And if you start thinking that you miss a person, you miss parents, you miss money, you miss a better, like, recognition, you start feeling a victim.
Cláudia: You are a victim from God. Why does God allow this to happen?
Richard: That's a common idea.
Cláudia: And I have another client that is treating drug addicts. And it's like volunteering in this work. And she comes and sometimes she bursts into like a revolt against God. Why does God allow this to happen?
And people being born in such horrible situations and this and that. Where is God? And I told her that every person, every person knows deep inside when they are doing wrong. Every drug addict knows that drugs are not good. He's doing something evil. He's doing something evil against himself. And not only that, but they are feeding the demonic system of drug trafficking and the culture of drug.
Richard: So they
Cláudia: are supporting with their own money. And
Richard: all the money that's made from that.
And even the illegal drugs, alcohol, there's a lot of money made from that.
Cláudia: So the first time when they took drugs, when they started, they knew they were doing something like against goodness, against consciousness. And they started. Now they can't even be without this notion any longer and being like feeling victims more and more. something um that i see and being victims of god and this is this is very bad because they are angry at god they cut off the link with god inside of themselves so they
lose all their possible uh protection strength energy and chance of
Richard: recovery chance of
Cláudia: recovery So, I told her, you see them like this, and you must know that each one of them got addict because of their free choice. And God never, ever will interfere in a free choice.
Richard: Yeah, that's a fundamental aspect of God, isn't it?
Cláudia: Yes, it never interferes. He's never, like, imposing. Well, God never disrupts your inner life and yourself and your privacy. He never interferes in taking away your freedom and your privacy.
God respects privacy. This
Cesar: is so beautiful. Angels respect privacy. They are so elegant. They will never
Cláudia: disrupt your privacy, but demons do, and put pressure, and they stick like on you, they glue on you. So,
Richard: it's something that must be. Like those leeches.
Cláudia: Parasites. Inconvenient. Yeah. Inconvenient. So, how come then she blames God? God is always there. He's always receptive. He's always accepting children that want to go back to him and embrace him.
Richard: Isn't there a saying that if you take one step towards God, he takes ten steps in your direction?
Cláudia: Yeah, at least ten.
Richard: Because he's there already.
Cláudia: He's there all the time.
Richard: It's kind of a childish story, but it makes a point. But it is.
Cláudia: Like we see him coming. It's always here. He's always here. But we see him sometimes. And so blaming God is such a short way to go. It's a dead end kind of thinking. And when a client comes and plays the role of a victim, victim of her husband, victim of her parents, victim of society, I think, oh, this is someone which is sicker.
Than normal. The normal, because victims, everybody feel themselves as victims somehow, but if it's a too strong victimization, it's a sign even sometime of a bigger possession. You see possessed people always, and criminals, always, always saying and claiming they are victims. So people who see only the trouble and the causes of their suffering in others, onto others, if they project, they see the goodness and the good intentions in themselves and all the evil coming from others.
They project onto others all their evil. So these are very difficult clients to deal with. Isn't that totally true? In
Richard: the movies you see
Cláudia: this constantly.
Richard: All the time it's said, this idea. He's fat all the time. They're using the poor relationship the guy had with his father to justify why he's a serial killer. All the time.
Cláudia: All the time. Constantly. I watched a movie like Chloe. Chloe. Chloe. And that wife showed a very, very, very common pathology.
Richard: This is the one with Liam Neeson and, yes, where he… Among women. She thinks
Cláudia: that he's having an affair with… She started to project everything onto him. And he was like not paying attention to her and she was all good intention. They don't mention how envious she was at him because he was a successful man, a very successful teacher. He was loved by all his students and she was absolutely envious at him. And she started with all these projections.
She was the one who was like Bernie to have an affair, and she had. And what she said in the movie was that she had that affair because of him. He was the guilty one because he stopped, like, showing desires for her. And not that she was the one who didn't want anything else to do with her husband anymore. And she said, because I'm older. It's not because she was older, but because this is the way women do normally.
Younger or older, they do this. So they project onto their husbands all their fantasies, sexual fantasies, sexual desires, sexual, like, unloyal intentions. And she was very unloyal in the movie. She was extremely deceptive and unloyal to her husband. She lied. She betrayed him in many ways. And then in the end, he was opened and merciful and loving and accepting, forgiving. And you see, in the end, she didn't let go of that fantasy because she had this thing using in her hair in the end of the film.
Richard: Using the piece from the
Cláudia: other woman, right? Yes. And you see – It almost
Richard: destroyed her family, didn't it? Yes. Almost
Cláudia: destroyed her family. If it was not because of him, it would be like total disaster. And this happens much more frequently than you think. Women blaming their husbands, and they are the ones who are really full of fantasies.
Richard: Canadian film, by the way.
Cláudia: This was a Canadian film.
Richard: Adam Egoyan is a great – his family grew up in Victoria, my home city.
Now he lives in Toronto.
Cláudia: So they
Richard: do very psychological movies. But we see that it's a form of feeding this fantasy of lesbianism and like normal. It's like something that is spicy. And somehow she has the idea in this film that he has all the advantages because he's able to do that. So she wants to have the same advantages for her. The
Cláudia: same story for all women. So at least if women realize this, if they take responsibility for their own pathology, it would be such a great thing to be done.
I was reading something. In Canada, women attack are more violent to men than the opposite. But men are very much ashamed to
Richard: register in like in… Yeah, court of the police.
Cláudia: But in Canada,
Richard: women surpass,
Cláudia: and so far, still, women are seen as victims. And
Cesar: this is
Richard: the worst thing, worst, worst for women, because women see
Cláudia: themselves as victims. And this is
Richard: a disaster. It's a
Cláudia: disaster because then we don't recognize what is wrong, not recognizing the true root of the problem which is inside of us.
We cannot heal it. We cannot correct. So unhappiness and illness grows and grows endlessly, and we create a hell to us and to others, to family. A client a moment ago, I was attending a lady, and she was saying the hell that her mother did to the family, speaking badly against her father all the time, and he was supporting the family, and he was so good to the children, to herself and to her brother, and the mother always speaking bad about him.
And she said, even after the death of my father, years after the death, she was constantly attacking my father up to a day that I said, come on, mom, he's dead. Leave him alone. Leave him in peace, for God's sake. And then I guess the mother was like, realized that the daughter was not into the same wave as she was, and she stopped. But what happens now, this lady starts blaming her husband in the same way her mother did to her father.
Richard: You can see that.
Cláudia: People say I'm against women.
Richard: I know they do.
Cláudia: But I'm pro-women. I'm
Richard: pro-women. The real woman.
Cláudia: The real woman. I'm pro because if we don't see this, we
Richard: cannot… Really grow. We
Cláudia: cannot lift ourselves. Yeah. And
Richard: it's important for men to understand that, too.
Cláudia: Yes. Because they become so weak.
Richard: They don't know how to respond to this kind of aggression. Totally true.
Cláudia: They don't know. How can they deal with this? It's impossible. Even women can't stand women.
And men don't have this kind of psychological, like
Richard: mental, like
Cláudia: scheming, like mental and psychological torture as women do. Men don't have this, this kind of evil thinking as women do. So they are so much clever in this psychological warfare against men, against society. And so I think, well, normally people are so materialistic, they see the power in muscles, in money, guns, but they don't see how disastrous can be a psychological warfare. And women are smart in psychological warfare.
they are experts.
Richard: Yeah, victimization, really tricky area. So attractive in an I'm not responsible for my pathetic situation sort of way, but at the same time leading us to fragility and immaturity. There's precious little comfort actually in believing that others have caused our predicament rather than ourselves, because the end result of victimization is always an inconsequential and unfulfilled life, which of course generates deep feelings of futility. We also want to blame on life and society and God. Quite a predicament. Seems like a situation we
need to get a handle on.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time on Thinking With Somebody Else's
Head.
I remember the book
Cláudia: Glorification that Dr. Kepi wrote. I was with him many of the nights or days where he got those inspirations from God, and it was a necessity for him to write
what he received. So the book was totally written under inspiration. But it's not only a theological book, it's mostly a scientific book, very therapeutic book, very beautiful by the way. And he used to wake up during the night, two, three in the morning, and he said, let's go to the top of the mountain and we were watching the sky in this dark night with no interference so you could transcend the sky and see heaven through it oh my god you could adapt the writings that he
did with the music of beethoven and this would be a trilogy of his writings and the music it would be heaven norbert
