Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy, it's Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm very happy you're listening. As we work to create a new media free of the vice grips of control strangling the mainstream media, it's good to remind ourselves to spread the good news. That's what social networking should be, right? Not just sharing what you put on your granola for breakfast.
In the 1960s, the black civil rights leaders in the South organized the Freedom Rides to draw attention to the disturbing practices of segregation. Super well-conceived and organized the old-fashioned way, not a Blackberry or Twitter account in sight. Today, with all our sophisticated communication playthings, it seems we lack the will and backbone that got thousands off their butts and onto buses and into protest marches.
What excuse do we use today as to why we aren't reacting anymore? We're living in the best of times for social activism, but too few people are interested. I want to challenge you to get more involved, And today, we'll become more conscious of why we're not. Decay in the land of plenty. Today, on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Welcome to the program.
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Dr.
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We do kind of a social therapy here. Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins me in a few moments, but I wanted to invite my good friend Bob Butler in to talk. Bob has just arrived here again from the Chicago area to spend some time with us in Brazil at Keppe's Institute. And he's got some really important, I think, relevant observations of what's going on in the North American society through Dr.
Keppe's lens that can help us to shed some light on what's really going on. You've just come from the United States and have been having quite a feeling there since you... How long have you been away from here? Has it been a year? It was nine months. Nine months, okay. Nine months. You came here and then you went back to the United
States and you had a big, maybe a shock even, at how you started to see what's happening in North America.
Talk a bit about that for me. I did. You know, I'm a very average American, very proud of my country, very proud of the American flag, great respect. Yet I started to see and I started to feel a strong decaying in the country. We see major cities like Detroit, Michigan, once the fourth largest city in the United States, with half the population leaving.
We see areas of the city that would resemble some of the favelas, the slums of São Paulo and other parts of Brazil.
Richard: Abandoned homes with broken glass.
Abandoned glass, burnt out by fire, and the dwelling still stays on the property. Yeah. The quality of life or the amount of income that the people have. Here in Brazil, you have A, B, C, D, E.
Well, classes of people, right? It's my understanding that, you know, the D class, they're moving up to the C. Some of the E, moving to the D. In the United States, the upper, middle, and lower class, we have many middle-class citizens moving down into the lower class. There doesn't seem to be any growth. People's incomes are decreasing. Their costs are increasing. And there doesn't seem to be any hope.
Richard: And you have a huge debt in the country now, right?
The national debt is just mind-boggling, and they continue in Washington to argue back and forth, what do we do? Do we increase the debt limit? You know, the bottom line boils down to you can't spend what
Richard: you don't have. Yeah, and you read a statistic to me today from the newspaper about the levels of pain that people are living with.
And so there's—let's talk a little bit about what's happening medically in the country.
I think—correct me if I'm wrong. I think we read—this was an article from Kansas City about pain in the United States, pain management for patients. I think it said something about, like, what, one-third of the population
Richard: was in chronic pain. Exactly it is. And people using medication at what kind of levels do you see?
They continue to use levels at higher and higher doses to the point where they go to their doctor and they say I'm in pain and the doctor thinks that they're being scammed because they're narcotics. In many cases, the doctor is being scammed. Just recently, since like 2006 through 2010, there's been an 81% increase in pharmacy burglaries. All the targets of the burglaries, for the most part, have been pain narcotic medications, oxycodone.
And just before I came here, a tragic story in New York. A man, a psychotic, very sick, walked into the drugstore. And without not even asking Hey, this is a robbery, I'd like everything. He didn't even ask questions. He just pulled out the gun, and he killed four innocent people, stole the narcotics, and fortunately, later he was
Richard: arrested. So, Bob, you said at the beginning that you're a proud American, and this is a wonderful thing, and you come from a country that reached the pinnacle of achievement in every area of human endeavor.
If we look back to America, 50s, 60s, even into the 70s, this is a country to be greatly admired. What's happened? What's gone wrong, in your opinion?
I really think it had a lot to do with people of my generation. You know, our parents and our ancestors were European or they were foreign. They came to the United States. They brought their hard work attitudes, their values, their virtues, and they built the country.
And they built the country that gave when others needed. And as those generations passed on and the American-born generation grew, the world changed. All of a sudden, America consumed and consumed more and more. Americans had that desire for more and more, and that included money. And it got to be the point where demands by various organizations really forced companies to take their business or their manufacturing plants elsewhere.
And much of this was condoned by the United States government, which in reality was condoned by the United
Richard: States people. So this might be one of the triggering events, right, was shipping all the production offshore somehow.
I think that began to reduce because then all of a sudden America wasn't working. They were in the service. They were in the thinking business, so to speak.
Richard: The knowledge economy, as we...
Yes. So, and again, as we look, we continue to see industry, manufacturing decaying in America. We still see the battle between, you know, the unions. And many, many years ago, the unions were absolutely essential because our ancestors, They came to America, and they literally became slaves. They became slaves of these manufacturers. Working conditions were deplorable. So the unions was a good thing.
But then, like many good things, because of who we are as humanity, it started to be bad. They began to protect workers who had poor work performance. Somebody didn't show up for a week, the union could protect them.
Richard: This is the pathology of human beings, right? That takes over. But the idea of sort of joining together to improve the conditions, this was a good spirit,
wasn't it?
It was. But yet it just seems to be decaying to the point where it scares me because I love my country. I really think Dr. Keppe wrote a book called Decay of the American People. And he wrote this. This was a love story, this book. This wasn't... Which was not your first experience when you read it, was it? No, my first experience is I was probably a typical American.
I said, this isn't true. What he says is wrong. He doesn't know. And then when I read it again with an open mind, it was a love story. I mean, we have a constitution in the United States that probably was one of the most perfect and pure documents ever written based upon experience. And even today, it seems like the politicians in Washington's have forgot and lost the respect for that pure document that built the United States of America.
Richard: So you talked about the sort of the breakdown of the unions, the emasculation of the unions that happened. You talked about the shipping of the production offshore. What? What are the other triggering things that you think are the things that happened that took America away from this vision of the original Constitution? I
think in the United States, I think the American people, there's a lot of illness there.
I think there was one statistic, and I can't recall it exactly, but at one time I think it was either 40 or 50 percent of Americans were on two or more prescription drugs. That's alarming because that means diabetes is on the increase, blood pressure is on the increase, cholesterol is on the increase, depression is on the increase. So what causes all of this, you know?
Is it the fact that our values, our virtues, our jobs are leaving the country? All this consumption, the desire to buy a new flat screen, a new computer, a new iPod, a new iPhone, a new this or that. Consumerism, materialism. Yeah, everybody wants to be. My mother once had an expression when I wanted this or wanted that. He says, you'll never be a Rockefeller.
Why do you want to have everything that Rockefeller has, you know? To learn to live within your means. It's not saying you can't buy, but, you know, and that's why people's homes, they've lost them in mortgages. You know, if you have a home and you're paying $2,000 a month mortgage on a $4,000 job and you lose that $4,000 job, well, you don't have the $2,000 to pay for the mortgage.
So we have to learn to, you know, to live within our means and to be able to accept responsibility and know if we lose our job, can we get another job to pay to make up that expense?
Richard: Bob, you've been in Brazil a couple of times now and studying Dr. Kempi's work for a couple of years. Is there anything from his work that you think is really essential for American people to learn about, to understand?
Personally, for
me, I think we need to be aware. We have to stop this inversion that we do. You know, we look at something, we see, and deep inside, we know that it's bad, but we don't accept. So, in other words, we have to ask ourselves, and to become aware, to conscientize, we have to ask ourselves, why is this thing that's good, bad?
And why is this thing that's bad, good? So attractive.
Richard: We want so much, don't we? So this big inversion we have of values. And you talked a little bit about sort of materialism. I think this is a fundamental flaw in our North American thinking today. We see everything in terms of money. Money is the god of our society today, isn't it?
It is.
And I would just ask my fellow Americans and fellow people from around the world, if our politicians keep spending money and going into debt, which means ultimately that those costs will be passed on to us, the citizens, and we continue to go out and buy things that we can't afford. And then when the jobs keep leaving or the salaries keep decreasing, which in the United States many are, how much longer can we do this?
How much longer can people keep putting things on credit cards and paying these banks, these astronomical interest rates for time payments? So if we don't put an end to this now And be aware of it now It's only going to get worse
Richard: Amen brother Thinking with Somebody Else's Head I'm Richard Lloyd Jones We are on the Positive World Radio Network And guess what?
We're coming right back. Don't go away. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. You are on the Positive World Radio Network. Our program is available also in iTunes. And on our website.
I'd like to encourage you to go to that website by the way. Our good friend up in Edmonton, Will Lajeunesse, has done a great job keeping that up to date and lots of good information for you there.
Dr. Cláudia Baron-Harposheko is with me again today, of course, as always. And our good friend Bob Butler has joined us from the Chicago area of the United States.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: To spend his birthday with us. Yeah, his birthday. Your birthday today,
Richard: big guy. It is my birthday. I'm not going to sing for you. I'm going to embarrass you in any way. The world is not quite ready for that yet.
Cláudia and I wanted to continue our conversation about corruption. You know you talked about this maybe a couple of programs ago and I was playing some of the excerpts in our in my classes for our students and you talked particularly about the corruption of China things like that and I just wanted you remember that have
Cláudia: I mentioned some personal forms of corruption. Yeah you
Richard: have but let me just preface the
Cláudia: thing by saying, because my student was very thrilled with your conversation.
And let me tell you why. Because the developed economies of the world are going along with this
idea
Richard: of letting the Chinese continue to produce this low-quality everything using their massive supply of slave labor and degrading the quality of everything. And you were talking about that. And a student of mine was just thrilled because, Cláudia, he works for a Japanese company, He's selling a Japanese crane, and the Chinese have come into the market with a crane that's half price.
Terrible quality, even dangerous. So his business has been affected by this directly, and so he was really thrilled to hear this from you, discussing the thing about China. But it got me thinking, I mean, how do we step outside this? I mean, I have a Chinese-built laptop computer. We have Chinese clothes. I mean, it's not as simple as
Cláudia: that. We are just mentioning like a branch of this huge tree of corruption.
Of course. So this is just a branch. It's the final, like at the end of one of the ways humanity followed corruption or followed this...
Richard: We industrialized corruption, really, right?
Cláudia: It doesn't talk about the person. It started in our inner selves a long, long time ago. When we decided to corrupt our true essence of our beings. Because the beings themselves are beautiful, truthful, ethical, and love would be the principle, the main feeling of the being.
So we had a capacity that was left behind and was corrupted also, a big corruption that we did to our brain to our knowledge to our wisdom so we started to get ill we started to die. I'm not speaking about religion now I'm speaking about physics even about the new physics that Dr Keppe developed in his scientific work and studying the DNA of human beings we see that we really are not aware of the big corruption we do, not developing, not using all our capacities.
Just around 5% or 4% of our DNA is made of proteins. The rest are energetic codes that are with us since the beginning of creation and some are like acquired during the centuries. And Jung could speak about this as the archetypes. Keppe speaks about the trans-conscience and the trans-types. So we have plenty of unconscious capacities that are not being used because of our corruption, because of our choices.
Richard: And you're speaking now in a metaphysical sense, Cláudia. I'm
Cláudia: speaking about a metaphysical, a disinverted metaphysical sense and a physical sense. I'm speaking about energy. I'm speaking about DNA. I'm speaking about the already known forms of telepathy, clairvoyance, knowledge, intuition, infuse wisdom and knowledge, perception, consciousness, good feelings. I'm speaking about many things that are very tangible. And
Richard: you're speaking about a complete being.
And I think this metaphysically, you're not
Cláudia: speaking about an evolution of something. No, no, integral being.
Richard: From the beginning.
Cláudia: Yes, we were like fallen from this state of more perfect beings than we are now. So because of our choices, because of our inversion, our inverted values, we decayed. So the most important genes are now recessive.
Richard: Yes, recessive genes.
Cláudia: Recessive, and the dominant ones became those that are more sensorial or materialistic, that we have elected as the biggest values of our society.
And we could name them money, power, prestige, censorship. Pleasures. Consuming things. Owning things. Material life. So, the matter is a consequence. And it's to serve us. Just a small part of our lives are linked to matter. The biggest part of our essence is linked to magnetic energetic level. Like, we are more magnetic beings than material and we don't realize this Richard so we decayed we degraded we corrupted corrupt or corrupted we corrupted
Richard: we corrupted ourselves
Cláudia: yes we corrupted ourselves we corrupted our way of our style of life and then we corrupted our beings as well and our brains.
So this is a pity because how have we done this Cláudia for instance I'll give you a very practical example good. Choosing capitalism or communism, whatever, because both of them put the money in the capital above anything, the capital in hands of the state or the capital in the hands of
Richard: a few, but putting money above humanity, putting money above anything.
So you were speaking about China. Profits above anything. This is what lead humanity or leads humanity to a degraded state. Yeah, this is obvious, isn't it? Because there's so many more important things, and many people will talk about that. If they, at the end of their lives, they're not going to think about how much money they have. You know, they're going to think about these other important values of the spirit.
Cláudia: And not only in the end of their lives, Richard, since they are young. Because it's a quality of life. It's a matter of being. I don't know if people understand that we are not meant to be spiritual just after this life. We are meant to be spiritual when we are born it's not a matter of religion when we say spiritual we are speaking about transcendental state we are speaking about magnetic energy we are speaking about plasma we are speaking about all these concepts that link the physical or the study of energy, physics and theology we are not speaking about religion in terms of of institutional religions we are speaking about a true being.
And when we speak like this people misunderstand us thinking that we are a new religion or we are bringing a new spiritual concept not at all we are speaking more linked to what the ancient Greek civilizations and the past civilizations of the planet understood about metaphysics because they studied the atom, for instance, linked to theology.
So God was the first big motor in their concept, like in Aristotle's concept. God was the source of all energy, of all movement, of all vibration. And it's a cosmic understanding of God so this is a
Richard: huge corruption and taking this out of science
Cláudia: absolutely correct absolutely huge corruption Cláudia.
Richard: Yeah
Cláudia: so the biggest mistake we have done is to cut the links we have with God which is the source of all energy who emanates all energy. And this understanding of God is universal.
All religions can accept this understanding because it's obvious. It's inside each human being. So going back to this capitalistic idea or communistic idea or putting the money above anything, when we leave aside doing or performing a good work, We need to do what is necessary for humanity, for the well-being of humanity. We must do what is good, what people need, what is ethical, what is elegant, what is harmonious, what is beautiful.
We need to increase the beauty of our lives because beauty is part of our health in our essence. We cannot absolutely be healthy living under corrupt, statical corruption under like or inside an environment which is ugly or dirty and disorder. We
Richard: cannot be healthy. Violent, aggressive.
Cláudia: The first sign of the mental and physical sickness of a person is when they start degrading their personal care.
They don't like to bathe themselves anymore, to comb their hairs.
They start eating too much or eating too less, too little. Or, you know, they don't care about their homes or their cars. Their cars are dirty. They don't take care. It's plenty of garbage inside.
Richard: So this is a sign of mental illness. We see a world like that today. You said to me yesterday, we went to a concert yesterday and watched a great Russian pianist, I don't remember his name now, playing some Tchaikovsky.
And you said to me during the intermission, you said, seeing somebody who's so excellent, this gives you inspiration to want to do what you do better.
And I feel the same way, you know, Cláudia. And most people, I don't think, would see that. They would say, wow, this guy is great, he's incredible, I wish I could be like that. They wouldn't necessarily make this abstraction you have made, which is to say, that inspires me to want to do better in my life.
Cláudia: But if you live in an environment which is disciplined to do what is beautiful and good, you end up by being influenced energetically, in resonance. Because the DNA of a human being suffers the effect of the resonance with other human beings to improve or to decay. So if you are in a decayed environment, corrupt, then you will have the tendency to adapt yourself.
Your DNA will adapt itself through the RNA
Richard: to that
Cláudia: deteriorated. It will degrade to conform with this vibrational environment. So if you live in, let's say, the Romantic Age, the end of
Richard: the
Cláudia: 19th century, in Central Europe, a lot of theaters, a lot of concerts, symphonies and symphonic orchestras, and the fashion was very beautiful, women well-dressed, beautiful hats, elegant men. Elegance was the top of all the meetings and the parties.
Elegance was the law and romance so everybody who lived in that environment had the tendency to become elegant and kind and gentle and romantic charming and charming so magnetism was in on the top of society because to be magnetic it's like this it's beauty is magnetic. If you want to sell something you put it's something beautiful as a call, a picture, visual, to catch attention
Richard: because it
Cláudia: is magnetic.
Beautiful forms of a human, like a human body. It is incredibly magnetic.
Richard: Not just sexual, right?
Cláudia: No, the forms. The forms, they are magnetic.
Richard: I see what you're saying.
Cláudia: Beauty is magnetic. So love is magnetic. Capacity genius is magnetic music is magnetic mostly the true music which is harmonious, which has melody it's very magnetic arts it's incredible, it's a channel between the source of magnetism which is God and the cosmic transcendental world and this material world arts
Richard: is
Cláudia: like a channel.
Richard: And I hope our program is part of that,
Cláudia: because you talked about resonance for good.
And resonance, Richard, we are lucky. Resonance occurs also unconsciously.
Richard: Okay, we need to take a quick break and come back to our resonance for good. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. We're back in just a moment. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Dr. Cláudia Bernhard-Pershako, Our good friend Bob Butler, he's listening, absorbing at the moment, resonating at the moment.
Cláudia: I'm sure he'll have some comments as we go along. You said the importance of a climate of resonance for good, Cláudia, as opposed to the climate of resonance of destruction, corruption, decrepit experience that we've experienced today. And people think this is old-fashioned. People think
Richard: this is démodé, as the French say. Out of fashion.
Cláudia: Yeah, it's – so if we – like going back to this market thing and the speculation and the money thing, you see so many activities.
So many beautiful habits being left aside because they cost too much.
Richard: They
don't bring profits. They are not profitable. So if you're going to build a
Richard: place, an opera place, they don't even think about that anymore. But if you build your house, your home,
Cláudia: your car, your street, the streets, gardens, anything, you think about being economic. What costs less?
Richard: Cláudia, this is so true.
A friend of mine was saying this one time. I
Cláudia: was thinking, but why do we have so much junk food in North America? Garbage food. Well, we have to transport the food. We need to do a more economy of scale. And so this is a stupid idea. Transgenic thing. This is deforming our DNA. This is creating many illnesses. This is killing the bees in the world.
And without bees, the nature will suffer tremendously. Maybe all the vegetation in the planet will disappear because the bees are gone. And the bees are gone because of the toxics, agro-toxics, and because of the transgenic. Seeds and plants and production. Cell
Richard: phone towers, all
Cláudia: of this corruption. Cell phones and all these communications, they must be less and less expensive. So, you know, but this doesn't mean that those powerful people that are on the top of the world controlling the planet, that they are not making money and being richer and richer.
So they want the people to be economic, but not them. But I wouldn't say that because those people who are really linked to money, so much attached to money, they can't even enjoy money they have. They just have these round things in the end of
Richard: the numbers of their bank account, which serves to nothing. What a person would do with millions and millions
and billions of dollars.
What they are going to do. When so many people are starving and dying and having no water because it costs, sanitation costs and health care costs and good education, it's too expensive. And why should we pay more for teachers to encourage people to go to education, to learn how to be better teachers?
Richard: No, they're going to speculation to study computers and to study economy and to study financial markets and MBAs here and there just to steal and to make
Cláudia: more profit.
So the human race as a whole is being corrupted by all of those things. And if we support this, Richard, if we say nothing, if we do nothing, we are being as corrupt as the corruptors on the top.
Richard: This is what I really, really wanted to come to today, Cláudia, because many students will say or people that I talk with will say, but what can I do?
I'm one person. And I think this is a huge feeling of impotence people have. So this is a form of corruption because we are contributing to not doing anything about
Cláudia: this. How do they call this life span?
Richard: Yeah, life
Cláudia: expectancy. Life span of an object. They don't want to produce quality things because they will not break. They will last forever, maybe. And how will be the markets?
How many watches they're going to build in and how many
cars and shoes
Richard: and this and that? Because they need to make
Cláudia: more profit. So things must end quickly, and they want to corrupt quality.
Richard: In the 50s, they had meetings about this, Cláudia. What is the period of obsolescence they can have for a product that will be acceptable by the people?
Cláudia: They had meetings about this to discuss, well, for a refrigerator, it needs to be at least 10 years.
It can't be 7 years or people won't accept it, so it's got to be at least 10 years. So, you know, at 10 years and one day, your refrigerator stops working. So all this marketing is a lie, and lie is a big form of corruption, lying to the public. People say, well, we have to lie, otherwise we will go bankrupt. So money is the order.
Money is on the top. So what a big corruption. We exchange our true nature, our true being, for money or for being slave of money and increasing our debts. And like I was reading today in Brazil, the debt was so much increased last year, the people's debts.
Richard: The internal debt inside the country.
Cláudia: Like, so they said that 65% of this debt is just...
Bank
Richard: debt, right?
Cláudia: Interest.
Richard: Yeah, 65%.
Cláudia: 65% of
Richard: the debt, interest. So, Cláudia, as you're speaking, I'm seeing that corruption is really linked to poverty. We're becoming poor because we don't have opportunities even for careers. We have to work for the banks, the financial institutions, the big corporations. We can't even develop ourselves. We can't go to arts presentations anymore because there's no money in it.
So, you know, we don't support it. We've become a poor human race on this planet, haven't we?
Cláudia: Yes, we did. And when you see or when you watch the films of the first half of the 20th century, you would see how they envisioned the beginning of the 21st century. And what we are seeing now and living have nothing to do with what they foresaw in the past.
And small flying saucers all around and so many practical things for everybody and sanitation and food for all and all those accomplishments. Nothing. Because of what? Economic system, putting money above, and this has a psychological cause, psychosocial cause.
Richard: It's not only the blame of the powerful ones. So let's talk about these personal forms of corruption. We have them. We've talked systemically. What is it personally that we do?
Cláudia: Besides all the
Richard: things we said.
Cláudia: Besides being like consumerists and besides exchanging the... Because, Richard, the fact that we are attached to consumerism is already a big form of corruption. If we exchange listening to a good music, reading a good book, and being curious, watching in the Internet the bad news, because this is a form of corruption. Let's speak a little bit about that so
we can go deeper
Richard: a little bit in each
Cláudia: area.
In front of me,
Richard: I have at least 40 forms of corruption that I collected in a class. I was in that class. I
Cláudia: remember very well. So we have at least 40 forms of corruption that were mentioned by the students. But one of the forms of corrupting is having this addiction to Internet and to computer games, to seeing what is new and what the news, but very superficial, very superficial.
You don't go in depth in anything in
Richard: the Internet. No,
Cláudia: we sure don't. So this being superficial, this dispersion of consciousness keeps us away from the true wisdom. This is just curiosity. And the curiosity is to know about other people's lives and about disgraces and about the end of the world or about what is bad, what is negative. And this bringing our thoughts and resonating with disgraces brings us down and this creates an environment to feed disgrace in our lives and other people's lives so the realistic movement of arts the modern arts they say we have to express reality we we have to express poverty injustice and we have to express how the world really is.
So if you go to the modern art, Museum of Modern Art in New York City, you get, like, what is this? Do they call this arts? So you see there a blank... Canvas. Canvas.
Richard: With a blue dot in it.
Cláudia: Yeah, and a piece of a tire. And so this is the reality of humanity so this is showing the pathological reality of humanity, this is true this is the expression of pathology we could name this as a pathological museum of arts at
Richard: the end of all this pathology, this is what we see yes,
Cláudia: this is what we. We reduce ourselves, we reduced ourselves and humanity to this, to this garbage.
And you have garbage there, a lot
of garbage and
Cláudia: deformation, so that's what we did to humanity.
So, but this is not a true reality. And here we come to the metaphysical aspects and the study of the beings, that all the beings, by themselves, by origin, are beautiful, truthful and good, because they have a cause and a purpose.
Cláudia: Anything that exists that was created has a cause and a purpose.
And a cause and a purpose would never be useless, ugly, harmful. They are always beautiful, good, and truthful. And what is negative has the interference of humanity.
Richard: Our pathology
Cláudia: was already deformed.
Richard: Something started out beautiful that we corrupted in some way. But this is an essential point, Cláudia, that I think I don't hear in the conversation around the world today. This essential starting place that you come from metaphysically through Dr.
Keppe's work and the great theologians, that we are complete. We
Cláudia: are irreducible beings. We are not something separate. You can't take a bunch of parts and stick them together through a process of billions of years of evolution and arrive at what we have today. That what we have in reality is something already complete, already done. Darwinism is a big form of corruption.
Richard: A huge form.
Cláudia: The philosophy of Darwinism is totally stupid because the bigger cannot come from the lesser or the smaller.
Richard: Yeah. So this starting place you're talking about, I think this gives a whole different perspective. I remember after I'd been in Brazil for about maybe a month and a half, I remember sitting with you in your house and we were having a conversation And I remember saying, wow, Cláudia, it's all about the relationship with God, isn't it?
I mean, everything, the human problem, if you could boil it down to one thing, it's that.
Cláudia: Because God is the first being we know. God is the most intuitive concept and the most evident because we need to have a cause. We are not here just by at random. So everything that is has a cause and a purpose. This is metaphysics. This is the true Greek deep metaphysical understanding.
Everything has a cause and the cause it's linked to the purpose to the end. So we are here for a purpose. We are not like a coincidence or a chance random
Richard: mutation. Yeah,
Cláudia: like this concept of a universe being a bunch of chances, a possibility. This is a corruption. This is corrupting
Richard: our intelligence. You have to force your intelligence and to corrupt it in order to accept this kind of philosophies and concepts.
Is there any of Keppe's books in English that would help us to understand this better that you could
Cláudia: recommend? Yes, Metaphysics I.
Richard: Metaphysics I, The
Liberation
Cláudia: of the Being. This is a beautiful book, and I took care of that. I wanted it to be translated to English because English-speaking countries, they're very practical, pragmatic. And in this book, Keppe explains how pure act is our essence.
Our essence is pure act. So what is a pure act? Everything that is pure that we do when we feel beautifully we have pure feelings pure thoughts pure actions in terms of being perfect pure in terms of being perfect. It's not something sexual or no moral pure not not moral at all pure in terms of not being corrupt not being uh not having dirt inside of it not being like distorted
Richard: spoiled.
That book is available
Cláudia: on our website at healing through consciousness.com. Wonderful book and by the way pure act is the name that aristotle brought. We're back in just
Richard: a few moments so i'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Don't go away. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and we are thinking deeply today about the meaning of life and
Cláudia: i want to to tell you Richard that bob is here Not by chance.
Nobody's never in any place by chance. There are always causes and purposes. Now, when we talked about... I interrupted you.
Richard: No, no, no, please. I'm interrupting you.
Cláudia: I don't want to corrupt
Richard: your show.
Cláudia: I'm doing the basic nuts and bolts, but what you're saying is the most important thing. I was saying that I took care of this translation of the book because English-speaking countries are very practical and they used to have a much better concept about action.
So when Bob came to Brazil, when I started attending him in analysis, I felt like, oh, how amazing it is to analyze a creature. You're an American being, like a North American, a United States person, citizen, that lived this scout concept of doing a good
Richard: favor, doing a
Cláudia: good deed. Good deed of the day. Yes. And this was something that they had, and they lost.
The
Richard: American culture generally had,
Cláudia: yeah, sure. So they did so many heroic actions and things because of this concept. They even, well, they were misled. They gave their lives to protect the legacy of very powerful men like Rockefeller and Morgan. And they went to war because to feed the military industry. So they gave their lives but they were they were totally they were totally deceived they were totally deceived and naive because they thought they were heroic and they were in in for democracy and the freedom for the for the countries.
So they were really heroes those guys. I found bob butler and he is in my at my side and i understand that he keeps inside of himself some of those ideals of these people which the book was translated for.
Richard: For that spirit.
Cláudia: For that spirit. To try to
Richard: recover those people and those spirits. I see him and I think, oh, there must be other Bob Butlers or similar to him in the United States.
Or even in England. Or Australia. And that book Bob is reading now. Did you know that? Are you yeah
Cláudia: what are you thinking about the
Richard: book bob.
I originally tried to read that book last year and i felt that it was over my head. I just couldn't get a grasp of the book. I came back to it numerous times and then when i came back to brazil this time i picked the book up and i had an experience.
The words, the meanings, everything was just kind of jumping off the page. And so I have a better understanding as I go through that. Really for me, you mentioned quality of life. I think the influence in my life was my parents. They came from parents who immigrated to the United States, where they brought their values, their cultures, their pure action. Three jobs, to provide good education for their family, but now it is decaying.
We don't see that. We see people who want more and more. Quality of life doesn't mean quality of life in what they do and how they feel. It means what can I own? What can I have? What can I do that everybody else is doing that I'm not doing. And pharmaceutical industry, they even capitalize on the quality of life. If you take this pill, you'll feel better or your blood pressure will go down.
But what's happening there is the longer the people believe this, they find out that all of a sudden their liver may fail, their kidney may fail. So the quality of life just isn't there. And people have to realize, I believe, that what we have right before us is really great if we try just to learn to enjoy it instead of trying to make it better.
Cláudia: So this concept that Bob brought about making nature better and making everything and anything better in terms of megalomania.
So this megalomania influenced so much the minds of
Richard: the planet because they think that nature is mistaken. It's not complete yet. Yeah, it's mistaken. We have to complete it. Humanity and human beings should correct nature. And not learn from nature
Cláudia: how things really work and how things should be.
Because the megalomania, the theomania of human beings led humanity to spoil and to corrupt even more the laws of nature. So we see so many complications. This morning, I read in CNN or Yahoo or Google, whatever, that there is a big fire very close to the Alamo lab, Los Alamos lab, where the
Richard: first nuclear
Cláudia: bomb was constructed. And they're claiming that everything is under control.
Control yeah so many many people were evacuated from the area but the nuclear products nuclear waste right yeah and
Richard: or the nuclear
Cláudia: components they are under protection. But how can you believe that or how can you trust that if the nuclear power itself it's already a corruption. So people wanted to to control nature and to be on the top of nature and not to adapt and learn humbly learn from nature.
Yeah this idea that nature is not perfect Cláudia that it's
Richard: all plenty of mistakes. Yeah and that we're completing
Cláudia: and making it better and now bob also said something that uh struck you my attention. Yeah he said that when he came for the first time when The first time he tried to read the book, Metaphysics 1, The
Liberation of the
Cláudia: Being, and he could not understand it, but now he's starting to understand.
This shows how the DNA can be improved. Because when we learn something, when we read, when we resonate with the knowledge, all knowledge is a process of resonance. Is adapting our intellect or resonating and adapting our intellect to the object which is known. All knowledge all concepts are a process in when when you learn when you know something it's a process of resonance between your intellect our being our perception our consciousness and the object that is being known.
So it's a resonance going on an energetic resonance which is transcendental it's outside time and space even. Yeah so we can know God and if we enter in resonance with God so we can know angels if we are in resonance with angels and we can know evil if we are in resonance with evil and we can live evil and we can and through this resonance these concepts aggregate like they come inside our our DNA our genetics we bring from past generations habits concepts fears emotions um preferences we bring from from the past generations.
In
Richard: order to recover that, then, we're going to need to do some work to increase the level of resonance.
Cláudia: So, like Bob did. So, he's doing analysis, he's reading the books, he's doing an effort to increase his vibration. He doesn't stay anymore just in sensorial level of vibration. So, his vibrational level went upwards, like went up. Yeah. Was?
Richard: Increased.
Cláudia: Increased. Increased, yeah.
So now he's able, his genetic or energetic structure is able to understand and to get in resonance with the content of the book and the concepts of the book. So he's saying, oh, oh, so it seems now that he is understanding. So he's taking in, he's resonating with his concepts.
Richard: Yeah. One guy wrote to us one time, to Cesar and I, about one of our radio programs a long time ago.
And he said, you know, you guys are not making any sense. And I wrote back to him. I said, no, you're not understanding the sense we're making. The problem is not ours. The problem is yours. You're not understanding what we're saying. Not that we're not under. We understand exactly what we're saying.
Cláudia: Now, let me show you here a scale that Keppe did in this book, Liberation Through Knowledge.
Phenomenal book. The level
Richard: of activities, of the kinds of activities, the level of activities, the different kinds. So starting from the lower level, more corrupt. Zero, the most corrupt. And going
Cláudia: to the divinity.
Richard: Okay. Yeah, this is a graphic, Dr. Keppe.
Cláudia: It's like a thermometer going from zero to 100, like a temperature. Yes. And so if we look at zero, at the lowest level of this graphic that he's developed it's like demonization demonized
demonic activity evil yeah right.
And at 10 we
Richard: see the psychotics epileptics depressive schizophrenics this kind of things. At 20 we have the mentally retarded i guess the mentally disturbed in some way at 20 on the graphic. At 30 we have the marginal people. This would be the people who sometimes have good feelings, good ideas, and then other times terrible ideas. At 40, I guess this would be like a percentage, 40 percentage, grand majority of the people.
So only at about 40. You know, he wrote this book when? I think
Cláudia: it's a little... 1991.
Richard: 91. It's maybe lower now. Yeah,
Cláudia: maybe lower now.
Richard: Because we've had a lot of materialism in that time. At 50 would be the saints, people who are resonating at a higher level of resonance with this spiritual... With God, with the perfection,
Cláudia: the pure act. The pure
Richard: act.
At 60 would be the talented people, the people who have talent. The geniuses. The genius comes later, yeah.
Cláudia: The talents, the great talents, this great piano player we saw. Yesterday
Richard: at 70 would be the the doers the accomplishers the achievers people who create things
Cláudia: good things
Richard: yeah good things
Cláudia: of course not necessarily vaccine vaccines for
Richard: yeah more vaccines for the Africans that's not necessarily accomplishing anything.
At 80 would be the geniuses this would be the Mozart's It's the Leonardo da Vinci's, Keppe's. And at 100 would be divinity, resonance with divinity. So this scale of resonance, we can see as we're going through,
Cláudia: we can see where we are. Yeah, and he probably is doing a thermometer of knowledge in this book. Right. Right? Of
Richard: knowledge. He said we could make a graphic about the level of activity and the types of people that are at these levels of activity.
Cláudia: And I would place, Richard, the somatized people, people who
are too
Cláudia: much like the hypochondriacs
or people who have too many sicknesses, physical sicknesses, all their lives long, lives long. They could stay very low there because we substitute.
Cláudia: If you are sick, Richard, your mind stops working. Have you noticed?
Richard: Yeah, you can't think of anything. You
Cláudia: can't think. That's true. You don't reason anymore.
You just suffer. True. It's a form of corruption, corruption of knowledge, corruption of well-being, corruption of the being. Because when you get sick, you think about your sickness, you suffer, your brain stops thinking other than, think nothing other than your pain and what you're going to do, your doctor, your pills, your medicines, your surgery, how you're going to get better. And so you don't, you sometimes can't even think about God when you're severely sick.
So sickness and also people who
are drugged or could
Richard: be official drugs or whatever drugs. Or aggressive. That's all the time for today. I'm really, I'm really sad that we're leaving now because this is a fascinating program. Can we continue a bit more next week? Maybe? Sure. It's a pleasure. Our program is a delight to have you with us. And thank you, Bob, for joining us.
Always great to have you here. Thank you, Richard. Thank you, doctor. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the positive world. How can I say this correctly? The Positive World Radio Network. The one thing I have to do and I corrupt it. We're back next week. See you
Cláudia: then. Bye-bye.
