Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Take a look around at the critical situations facing we human beings, and it's sobering. Maybe that's why most of us don't like looking too closely. It becomes overwhelming. Can't you talk about something else? Is how my mother often phrases this sense of overwhelm. The implication being that not talking about it makes it disappear.
That's an absurd rationale, of course, but one that's rather common in our addicted-to-positivity society. In the science of psychosociopathology elaborated at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil, where our program originates, this is called an inversion. Seeing problems is a negative. You have to make lemonade from that mountain of lemons after all. Problem? What problem? What we've got here is a heaven-sent opportunity in the common parlance.
But to really solve the problem, we have to forget about the inverted dictums of the motivational literature. There it is written that we need to forget the past and look to the future, exactly the polar opposite of what we should be doing. Real leaders, in truth, need to look very hard at the reasons we're in the mess we're in. Freedom and leadership, today, on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
We are streaming on the new Stop Radio Network, and this is good news for you who are into what we're doing here at Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Our new programs, Analyzing the 1% with Occupy activist Gilbert Gambucci and The Conscious Company with Susan Berkley.
But the majority of our programs are Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We have a vast archive of programs dating back to 2006, and many of them are here now on our new network. And we're updating all the time. So if you're online anywhere in the world, we can be with you. Our network, you know, I think is very different from most radio media in that we're not selling an audience to an advertiser base.
What normally happens in radio stations, of course, they try to access a certain listener base, say men 18 to 49. They try to develop programming that appeals to that market segment so they can offer that market segment to the advertisers. So we're actually not doing that. So we're freed up to address the issues we feel are most crucial and analyzing them through our scientific lens.
So we come, in this sense, from a consistent point of view. And this makes our show and our network a source for understanding what's going on, rather than a smorgasbord of varying opinions or commentaries that are generally served up piecemeal on traditional radio stations without any attempt to connect up the pieces into a cohesive whole. So I think what we're doing is really innovative and important, and it strikes close to what media should do.
Light, not heat, in a reversal of the guiding principle of modern profit-oriented media today. We have a base from which to analyze what's going on. That's the science of Analytical Trilogy. So before we sink our teeth into leadership with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco today and start our first in a two-part series on this subject, there have been some alarming reports out of Japan about recurring consequences of the Fukushima nuclear disaster from last year.
I've invited my colleague, Will Lajeunesse, another Canadian guy who's living down here with us in Brazil and helping out a lot with our work on the radio network and in various things we're doing at the Analytical Trilogy. Will, I want him to talk briefly about what's going on today in Fukushima because this is a question of leadership, too, and it will provide kind of an overview or an introductory explanation of what's happening before we get to Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Will, you've been following a little bit what's happening with Fukushima. You know, we don't hear anything in the media about this anymore. It's an amazing thing. It happened like a year ago. But, of course, radiation is not something that just suddenly disappears. So what's the latest? What's happening there?
Will Lajeunesse: Well, the disaster in Japan is not over, not by long shot. And it appears to be even getting worse.
It's expected that an earthquake will hit this year again in the area. And of course the the major concern there is is reactor building number four. Uh it contains about 1500 spent fuel rods that are stored on the second level. They're exposed to the air. The roof, the structure that holds the entire building up, is very damaged and is expected to collapse if there's another
Richard: earthquake.
And i as i understand it this uh radiation, there must be a radiation cloud or radiation that's still emanating from these spent fuel rods that are now exposed to the air. Where is that radiation heading? Yes
Will: there's there's an incredible amount of radiation and it's being released into the air. So the surrounding area, most of northern japan, is contaminated now. Parts of russia, it's it goes up into the jet stream and it circles the entire northern hemisphere about nine times at least, and it's been doing this for about 400 days now at least.
Um they're picking up the radiation all over the northern hemisphere. He said you
Richard: have a friend who has a geiger counter in northern canada. He's uh noticing traces of this radiation at a higher level than normal.
Will: Yes the last time i checked um he said that the levels were about three times that of normal background heat. He's he's testing food um snow rain basically anything that's on the ground.
Richard: There's also another report that this there's kind of a wave of this radiation heading towards the west coast of north america. Another friend of yours has been called in to do what?
Will: Yes i have a friend who lives in vancouver washington and he's a professional diver and He's been hired to help break up the debris field that's coming from Japan. And the debris field is thousands of kilometers, square kilometers.
What
Richard: is a debris
Will: field, Will? Bits and pieces of houses, cars, garbage, basically anything you can think of that's been in a city and been washed into the sea.
Richard: Wow. And this could be radiated.
Will: Absolutely. It's highly likely that it
Richard: is. There's some report i don't know how reliable this is that maybe the japanese people, the japanese government, might even have to evacuate people.
And there's some talk that there's these ghost towns in china. A report came out of the london daily mail news service in 2010 that there's these ghost towns in china that could accept people like this. I don't know how much credence to put in this but What's going on there? What do you understand about
Will: that? Apparently, according to some news sources, the Japanese government has been talking to the Russian government, asking them to release some islands that the Russians had occupied in World War II.
And apparently the Japanese are also in talks with the Chinese government. And they're thinking about evacuating about 40 million people from northern Japan, And Tokyo and the surrounding cities, they need somewhere to go. China has, I don't know the number, but probably a few hundred empty cities that have been built that can hold millions and millions of people. They're just sitting there waiting.
So apparently there's been discussions with the Chinese. Find a home for all these people.
Richard: We don't know how much, of course, many of this is true. And this is one of the real problems, Will. The leadership today, they don't tell us what's going on. And so we have to try and research these things. And some of the sources are really questionable, of course.
So we don't know the full details of this. But the leadership of the world is really negligent in this situation, aren't they?
Will: Yeah, they don't tell us anything. We're on a need-to-know basis, and apparently we need to know nothing.
Richard: A good way of putting it. So we have a situation, a crisis now that's happening in the world. The situation in Fukushima, I don't know how many times worse than the one in Russia.
Will: I hear different things from many different people, so-called experts and scientists. But one of Japan's leading nuclear experts said that this event in Fukushima is like unlocking, unleashing Pandora's box. And it has the potential to eradicate huge numbers of people in the northern hemisphere, millions and billions. So we're dealing with something very serious.
Richard: What happened in chernobyl has implications even today. Today chernobyl the
Will: fallout can be found all over the northern hemisphere in different places, canada europe.
There's places in europe that are more radioactive than in chernobyl. So
Richard: we have a situation of leadership that's very uh in big crisis in the world today in terms of letting us know what's going on. And so we're going to discuss that a little bit more in our program today. I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head when Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins us to talk about freedom and leadership.
What are we free to do, and what is it to be a real leader in our society today? Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is our signature program on the Stop Radio Network, our new Stop Radio Network. We've been doing this as a podcast since about 2006, and with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, like regularly, maybe for a year and a half, maybe two years.
So very. Happy to have you with us, and I hope we're giving you an overview of what this incredible work of Analytical Trilogy is. In our last program, we were talking a lot about projects that we're undertaking in numerous cities around the country, specifically in our principal city of Cambuquita, which is about 350 kilometers from São Paulo. But as well, we are doing lots of work here inside São Paulo, which is a city of about, what, 18 million people, Cláudia?
Something
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: like that? If you consider the big São Paulo, the greater São
Richard: Paulo, it's even more. More than 20 million. It's an enormous city. It's an enormous city. This
Cláudia: goes on and on and on. And so there's lots happening here. It's an energetic phenomenon this
Richard: year. It is, isn't it?
Cláudia: Yeah, because when I left to New York City in the early 80s, it was not like this.
No.
Richard: There are apparently astronauts who say that when they're flying, I think there's some Russian astronauts saying that when they flew in their circumference of the Earth, their orbit of the Earth, when they flew over São Paulo, they could feel a different energy. Really? Yeah, there's some studies about this or stories about this. And even there's a lot of light, apparently, vibration that comes from São Paulo because the history of São Paulo.
Cláudia: The city or the state?
Richard: The city of São Paulo,
Cláudia: especially.
Richard: And so it's a vibrant place. We have our
Cláudia: language schools here, our incredible translation company, your clinic where you attend clients. Well, here is the
Richard: place where Trilogy started. And it's still the center of Trilogy today.
Cláudia: Yeah, it's the main center.
Richard: And one of the areas that we have a lot of impact in is the area of education, And now starting to expand again, because you and Dr.
Kempi did a lot of this kind of work in the past, working with corporations, leaders, we're starting to have more inroads into that area again. So I thought if we could begin to talk about true leadership of the 21st century, I think this would be a beautiful subject. And you wrote to me, you wrote a long email that you were brainstorming on this, and then your computer exploded, and you lost all of your brainstorming.
I
Cláudia: had to redo it.
Richard: And what you wrote may have been sort of the second option, but it's still pretty incredible what you wrote. And you said something here that I'm going to sort of translate here from the Portuguese, that you said, we're not here to fix here or there a system that's already broken. What system is already broken? What are you talking about?
Because when I talk with my executive clients about this, some of them are not quite sure what this means. So I want to clear. Well, does
Cláudia: he read newspapers?
Richard: Don't you watch the television?
Cláudia: To say this stupidity, my God, what is broken? So even people, even the major government representatives, they are saying everything is like over. It can't continue the way it is.
They are just, it's like where people go intensive care unit.
Richard: Ah, ICU.
Cláudia: So, governments are in a kind of ICU, and they are injecting more and more artificial blood, like currency and money, that does not have a basis.
Richard: Anything behind it. I think what they're saying when they ask that question is...
Cláudia: But it's not only that. It's not only economic. It's all.
Richard, if we want to speak about the future, we must see the past as we usually do and how things got to the place they are now. It's really difficult to understand, but we can have some inputs in here. So what have been the main desire, the main goal, the main purpose of humanity? Now it's keeping a word that is beautiful in English, but let it go.
It'll come back. When we speak about leadership, we are involving concepts of power, control, idealism, capacity. So we have many concepts around this. But we have something that is absolutely complementary to this, or it's the other side of the coin or the situation, which is freedom. So how can you be a leader and still respect the freedom of your followers? So concept of freedom has always been in the center of discussions.
Richard: Yeah, and complicated this. Yes. Yeah. People take away freedom. Some leaders have taken away freedom thinking that this is how leadership is to lead like this.
Cláudia: Yeah. So we have been having dictators. We have been having crazy emperors, crazy kings, crazy first ministers or presidents. We have been having always crazy people in the power, taking the leadership of nations. Like even Hitler is the most quoted example.
But we have very present ones, too. So when we speak about freedom, we see, for instance, the fight for freedom in many, many places and nations.
Richard: Especially now.
Cláudia: Especially now. But it has been always like this in the Middle Ages and when people put down and overthrew governments and kings and monarchs and emperors, whatever, and put another group in there. And it has always been this fight for power.
Now, if you consider the concept of freedom, you see that in the 18th century. Ah, the 1800s. Yeah, 1800s. You had all those beautiful writers and fighters for freedom. We had even the French Revolution and then the independence in North America. Late
Richard: 1700s, just the beginning of the
Cláudia: 19th century. Yes. So you had these ideals that they called Illuminismo.
Richard: Yeah, Illuminism. The philosophy of Illumin.
Cláudia: Le siècle de lumière. So they wanted to substitute this situation of domination of the noble and the church by something that was led by reason. So reason and intellect was like on the top of the discussions, was the main goal at that time. If we substitute this form of monarchism, which was totally...
Richard: Yeah, positive, corrupt. Yes,
Cláudia: and repressive,
Richard: unjust,
Cláudia: by reason, a group that used the reason to govern, we would have more balance in society.
So many achievements were done at that time.
Richard: Certainly beautiful documents were written.
Cláudia: Yes, so beautiful. But something missed. Democracy came to the place. The concepts of democracy were like in fire all over the world. So we need to have democracy. What is democracy? It's the government coming from the people. And everybody should have the right to vote and to say what they want it to be done.
Richard: Of the people, by the people, for the people. Yes.
Cláudia: So this was really beautiful. But right after this, a new form, even new form of government and economy was brought, which was confused with democracy. Democracy is one thing. Communism and capitalism are other things. And people confused, for instance, capitalism with democracy. And on the East, where peoples had communism, they confused that with equality and justice.
So we saw then this huge form of domination. The state having all the economic power in their hands, killing millions of people in the East Europe. And then we have this corrupt, domineering, not less unfair and unjust and squashing form of government, which is the new liberalism or the wild capitalism. So where is democracy? Yeah, good question. In order to be elected, people must present, must wave the
Richard: flag
Cláudia: of democracy.
Otherwise, they
Richard: will never be elected.
Cláudia: But on the other hand, they saw, and this is something that has... It has been an experience already that if you let everybody, anyone, do what they want to do, they will stop working, they will start demolishing civilization and culture, and so there is always this conflict. And you know something? The answer for this I found in Keppe's explanation about freedom.
What is freedom? Is freedom the capacity or the right to say no, as Kant, the German philosopher, said? Is freedom the capacity to oppose yourself to someone or something that you do not accept? Keppe brought this understanding. Keppe said, we are free only to do what is good, beautiful and truthful. We are not free to destroy goodness, beauty and truth. So this is a general principle.
If we want to go down in the implications and consequences of this, then you will have to understand that for instance your freedom stops when you will harm the good, the rights of your neighbor. And now with trilogy of your own like if you inflict an aggression, omission is a denial to your own essence, you are not exercising your freedom correctly.
Richard: In fact, Keppe goes very deeply into this, saying that this is a form of corruption, that our corruption is a self-corruption too, not only an environmental, country-wide corruption, but a corruption of our own essence.
Cláudia: So theoretically, we are free to drink, we are free to drug ourselves, to kill ourselves, to be aggressive, to attack other people, to have wars, to steal, to
Will: be dishonest, to be unfair, to be egotistic.
Cláudia: So, theoretically and in practice, people think they are free to do this. To ride a car beyond a limit and being drunk when you're going to kill people or you are free to play in the market and take money from the poorest countries.
As much as you want. As much as you want. So you can become a millionaire, a billionaire, and nothing will happen to your mind and you will not become a sick person. So these are concepts that are mistaken and upside down, inverted.
Richard: Okay, let's take a break because you're touching now to something that probably you're going to need a bit more time to express.
So we're back in just a moment. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, this concept of freedom and leadership that Keppe brings is really phenomenal. So do keep listening. Don't go far away. We're back in just a moment. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network, one of my favorite subjects, actually Cláudia has sort of waded into here, is the concept of freedom.
We're only free, really, to do what is good, beautiful, and truthful. And, you know, I hear people talk. You were mentioning sort of the day trading idea of sitting around on your computer and programming your computer to make very quick sales or buying situations on changes in currency fluctuations or whatever, which people do in day trading. And people talk about, oh, but life is a game.
It's a game, Cláudia. It's just a game. We're just, who wins the game, you know, is the one who has the most money, and he who has the most toys when he dies wins. This kind of idea of a game, this is a huge...
Cláudia: We have a word in Portuguese, it's called roleta russa. Do you have this in English? Yeah, Russian roulette.
So life is Russian roulette. Russian roulette.
Richard: Not for me. No. And not in reality, because we don't actually feel good when we do that. We can't feel, I think Mandela or Gandhi said, if one person is in chains, we're all in chains. A way of saying that we are in this, it's not a game. There's another purpose to that. If we're thinking of life as a game, this is a very low kind of...
Cláudia: So young people wanted to be free. The youngest in the 60s, they wanted to be free, to become free from that hypocritical society. Now, the concept of freedom they had was wrong. So they were free to drug themselves, to destroy their brains, to destroy their talents and their qualities. To do nothing. To do nothing. So they destroy themselves. It's a huge whole generation that started to be destroyed and destroy itself like it has been since then.
So all generations now enter in a decay. So now if you want to find good employees or good workers, it's much harder than in the past. You will have like incapable slaves now. They will not work. They will not be capable to do anything. So they try to hire people from other countries, but it really doesn't work, really. So that's how it's happening in America and United States in the moment.
Richard: And one of my students from France was saying the situation there is very dire, too. They're having an election this month or next month. And the people are on the streets fighting, but they're fighting for less work, earlier retirement.
Cláudia: Yeah, more money and less work. So they want to live themselves the life the richest live. So this is the worst example possible.
Lazy, crazy psychopaths or psychotic people that got crazy because they had too much. And they didn't know what to do with that.
Richard: Let's go deeper into this question of freedom, Cláudia. We're not free to do anything we want. This is a philosophical idea.
Cláudia: Yeah, because otherwise our existence will be against our essence, and we will destroy ourselves and our essences. And there is no one that can feel good being against himself.
And we didn't create ourselves with our own rules. Everything is already organized. And we must understand that the psychological, energetic level is not less perfect or less strict than the physical. So if you inflict a pain, if you cut your finger, it will not recover. It will not grow again in its place. So this is the same and even worse in our psychological level, in our spiritual level.
Because energetically speaking if we play too much with our virtues our talents our essence our soul it will get harmed and it's difficult to get back. Yeah
Richard: i think this is important and this may be this massive corruption against ourselves, this massive amount of action against our essence. Could this be then a real explanation for the cause of all the anguish that we see around the planet?
The the pharmaceutical use of antidepressants growing and growing and
Cláudia: growing, that people
Richard: are
Cláudia: desperate somehow and even kids are desperate now, they need to be drugged. They call it this attention deficit disorder but it's it's this environment which is totally upside down, totally totally inverted now. Richard going back to companies and to nations, a leader He must be a leader in terms that he cannot forbid his employees or his citizens to do what is good.
And he must stop his citizens or employees to destroy the nation or the company. So being a leader requires an enormous amount of self-knowledge, of understanding and virtue of knowing oneself in terms of, am I against my own nature? Am I using freedom in the correct way? This is a deep, deep philosophical and psychological question. And
Richard: most time when people get to positions of power, they stop that kind of questioning.
Don't they? They stop to, because they've arrived at the top now, I don't need to think anymore, I'm the best, and so why should I do any self-analysis?
Cláudia: So money substituted their brains and their ideas and their feelings. In Portuguese, we can say, they change mentality, mentalidade, por materialidade.
Richard: Okay, they made an exchange for being, like, mentally speaking, and they changed that for being material.
You said material, materialistically. So we've replaced our mental capacity with...
Cláudia: Mentality for mentality.
Richard: For materialism.
Cláudia: Mentality instead of mentality. Mentality,
Richard: that's a good phrase. I could see a t-shirt there, mentality.
Cláudia: Yeah, mentality or mentality. So we exchanged a good mentality or a broad mentality a universal mentality a fair, a good one, a loving one and a human mentality for mentality so it became like Metallic people.
We live in a metallic society and we became metallic people. And we sound metallic. And even the music is metallic. And everything is metallic. So, we destroyed our essence by using incorrectly, invertedly, our freedom. We are only free to do good, beauty, and truthful actions. Now,
Richard: you said the leader has to be someone who is two parts. He can't impede people from doing good.
Okay, this is happening a lot in society now. This only happens.
Cláudia: We're forced to do terrible things in many cases. If you have to work just to make another person richer, it's immoral. It's wrong. It's not the right use of your freedom. You can only ask for your employees to be hardworking people if you are helping them to be useful somehow in life, to themselves and to the world.
Right. And
Richard: then the other part of it is that the leader also has to be able to stop the people from destroying the company. Because there's this also this people think that if I'm working for somebody, I'm being exploited, I'm being taken advantage of, this company is sucking the blood out of me and life out of
Cláudia: me. So this really happens many times, but the workers have to change this mentality gradually.
And this cannot be like overnight. It's not like the Occupy Wall Street thing, this movement. Because what they want seems to be to have a share in what the first percent have and what they are doing. So it's not to change the mentality of the world, to go back to the value of good work. They are wanting a share of what they think belongs to them, and it would be fair to...
But if they stop working, who is going to be millionaire in the first place? So it's everything wrong. It's everything upside down, you know, everything upside down.
Richard: I was talking to a young student on the street this morning. We had a class last night and she was there and our good friend Bob Butler joined us in the class to offer some motivation as he does so well.
And she was saying to me, you know, Richard, but my job is so difficult because the company is not providing all the resources that we need to train people. I said, well, then you need to do that. OK, probably the company's not, you know, you need to try and get the company to help with that way. But if they're not going to do that, they're not going to change that.
So the training that you see missing, you're going to have to provide for the people and not just keep waiting. Well, she was thinking about that a little bit because we have this idea that everything has to come from somebody else. And what are
Cláudia: we providing in our jobs? And imagine if everybody in the world or everybody in a country or everybody in a company, they start disinverting their mentality.
They, of course, will not attack the company because the company is the source of their survival, at least in the moment. So what are they going to do? To fight and destroy the source of their income. So this is not the way to treat things. We must have to change consciousness. Consciousness is very powerful. And consciousness is very constructive. So people must change the people in power by conscientizing them, not attacking them.
This is our opinion because we are even Christian in our principles and Jewish and Muslim, not Muslim, not Jewish maybe, but Christian. Because they understand. Even Christians killed people. And they agree that a war is desirable sometimes. It's something legal sometimes. But we understand that we should never do war because we are not allowed to kill our fellow man. Like the death penalty, Richard Isn't the United States The first Not the first, but The only country in the western world That still have a death penalty?
I think so. This is horrible. This is terrible. This is totally backwards. So
Richard: we need to conscientize leaders about that For one thing. But you said that with our role now If we're involved in these Occupy movements Or these movements around the world is to conscientize the leaders about what, Cláudia? How would you summarize that? We need to conscientize them about what aspect of...
Cláudia: This program is being about freedom and the concept of freedom. So we should only be free to do, to work, and to do the good for our fellow men and ourselves. Leaders must understand more in depth and read Dr. Keppe's books about the subject. What is really freedom and what we are allowed to do or not to do if we want to have a healthy society and a healthy body and a healthy mind, if we don't want to become psychotic psychopaths, sick and build a sick, corrupt and sick, unbalanced society.
We are scientists of the mind and the body so this is our subject. So we are telling and advising This is not a matter of politics. This is not a matter of anything other than health, mental, physical, and social health. Next time, I hope we can enter in another dimension of leadership, which is spirituality.
Richard: For sure we can, Cláudia, and we will.
Our second in a two-part series on leadership continues next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Keppe and Pacheco. Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We try to produce weekly here on the Stop Radio Network.
We have lots of archived programs available there, and we do hope you're listening and enjoying what we're doing and passing it on to your friends. That's it for this week's program. I'm back again next week on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you then.
