Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I moved to Brazil from New York in 2001, two and a half months before 9-11. Talk about timing. But if it was timing, it was not anything conscious. My desire was to learn more about the work of an extraordinary scientist I'd become aware of a short time before moving here. That scientist was Dr.
Norberto Keppe. What Keppe proposes in his far-reaching science is quite simply a solution to the fundamental human problem, which is that we act in contradiction to our essence and therefore we act against life itself. This goes to the root of all of our issues. This inversion is the cause of all of our conflict and crisis. So it's not a matter simply then of protecting this or that species or saving this or that ecosystem or cutting our greenhouse gases or resolving our geopolitical scheming.
We're going to have to change practically everything if we're to attain the well-being that we have a right to enjoy. The transformation must be basic, it must be total. Today we'll try to transform and transcend the mounting terrorism crisis. Healing terrorism, today, on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Kind of strange, maybe, to think of terrorism as being something that can be healed, like a rash or a headache.
But I think here we can learn much from the psychosociopathology of Norberto Keppe. First, and I hope this won't sound too much like a lesson, is a philosophical concept called dialectics. Socrates used this in his dialogues wandering the streets of Athens all those years ago. Questions were proposed until the answers led the answerer to realize a contradiction or an inconsistent philosophy. The subsequent reflection could then lead to a resolution or a reconsideration or even a radical change.
When Jesus wisely suggested that those without sin throw the first stone, he was practicing dialectics, and it was profoundly felt by those armed with rocks who dropped them as a consequence and sheepishly walked away. The oldest first, by the way, seemingly because their extra experience in life gave them more sin. So it's dialectics we can turn to in these strange and dangerous times to reach some meaning.
Keppe's dialectics comes from the early days of Christianity when Assyrian theologian Tachyan proposed that evil was the privation of good, not the opposite. It. And Keppe has refined that extensively over the years through enormous amount of research and extensive clinical practice to state that everything that's not good, true, and beautiful is a distortion of the natural essence of life. So, in this view, hate is a destructive attitude against love.
Revenge is a distortion of forgiveness. War is clearly the detonation of peace. The false dialectic, thesis and antithesis equals synthesis, is everywhere in our modern world. The opposition party is obliged to oppose the party in power. We think that evil is inherent in the human being. The environmentalists are good. The oil pipeline is bad, etc. So we've created this erroneous attitude and thought.
This negative idea has been introduced into humanity. In fact, anyone who has a negative or aggressive idea against their fellow man is exhibiting an immoral attitude, looking at this through Keppe's dialectics. It's a very powerful starting point that the essence of life is goodness, truth, and beauty. And anything that's not linked to those three is problematic, destructive, and even evil. Well, let's see if that gives us a starting place today.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins us to look at healing terrorism. That's up next when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues on the Stop Radio Network. We can
tell how unbalanced a person is by how much they idealize. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
A key inversion in science.
Cesar Soós: Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element.
Richard: And its negative consequences.
Cesar: We provoke serious imbalances in nature.
Richard: Corrected now with the Keppe motor's disinversion of physics.
Cesar: And we developed a way to have mechanical power with very little electricity.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: This will make a big change not only in energetic efficiency, but also it will bring better energy in homes because it's magnetic energy.
Richard: The Keppe motor, new technology for a new world.
Richard: We are here on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. It's a special day, and I hesitate to say that because it's such a terrible time on the planet. As we're recording this, it's a few days after the attacks in Paris, the terrorist attacks that killed, what, 129 people?
I think the last statistic I saw, 23 people arrested yesterday. France and Russia bombing ISIS camps in Syria. But I'm very happy that Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco has agreed to sit with me today and talk a little bit about what's going on from a trilogical perspective of our globe and encompassing the universe. I think, too, we'll maybe get to that. Cláudia, I remember I did an interview with Dr.
Keppe shortly after September 11th. He was kind enough to sit down and talk with me about terrorism, and we had a conversation about what's going on when people start to project problems outside themselves. You mean paranoia, right? Yeah, paranoia, the type of paranoia and censorship, this fact that it's not only happening individually, it's happening between countries now, where countries are getting paranoid about either other religions inside their country or other nations or emerging nations.
How do you see this today? What are your sort of opening thoughts about what's happening? And you lived in Paris for a number of years. Seven years. Seven years.
Cláudia: So you must feel very connected to this experience there. Yes, yes. What are you thinking? What are you reflecting on here as we start? The thing that hurts me the most, Richard, and I remember I have spoken about this with you here and on the radio a few times, that the powerful, the evil powerful who are behind the scenes, they take advantage from all this that is happening.
They are sort of planning all this. We know that. We can't do much about this, but we know that big, enormous evil interests are behind this. Remember when we spoke about September 11th and how they created a situation so they could impose some of their tactics, like that law? Well,
Richard: the Homeland Security and then
Cláudia: the Patriots Act. Yes. The Patriots Act and these various things that took away certain aspects of the Constitution, really, or the rights.
And sending military people to Middle East and feeding enormously the military industry with government money, United States, which is people's money, which is the money who comes from this wedding of hard-working citizens in the planet. So we see the hard-working people, the good people, the deceived people, helping to maintain this industry of terror, which is even bigger than ISIS. We know that ISIS could not do what they are doing if they were not getting some sort of support from above.
And this causes me a kind of distress because I see that all medias, they don't speak about this. They play the game. And the average person follows the mainstream media and what the governments tell them to believe. So I see them on the top taking advantage from all this sickness amongst people, this paranoia, and they feed the paranoia as much as they can, so they take advantage.
Richard: You know, what we think of when we see this, when we hear this, We think, well, is it really, like, organized deliberately in terms of this step, then that step, then that step? I'm not sure that happens, but for sure, when you create destabilized situations, which has been going on for centuries. Machiavelli
Cláudia: spoke about the divide to conquer. Yeah.
Richard: Sooner or later, some, you know, you throw the shit against the wall, and sooner or later, some of it's going to stick.
And so this is, I think, what happens. And if I could just draw a geopolitical picture around this. You sent me a tape of Father Malachi Martin some weeks ago, maybe months ago. And he was talking about the geopolitical strategy that he saw happening around the time of the first Gulf War. What's that, 89, 90, something like this. And where he said that his feeling was that the values of religion were being attacked, making it appear that the religion was to blame for many of the problems.
But the values were being attacked, the ethics, the morals were being attacked as being incomplete somehow. And trying to replace that structure with an economic structure, with trade agreements that we're seeing happening now, globalization, the new world order, which he felt was a new world order of economics, of business. Removing the moral constraints because that's not good for business. The business can't be free to expand with those moral constraints.
Do you feel that it's something like this, or is it more than that?
Cláudia: I think it's very much about this, but there is even more. And we see this struggle between good and evil beyond religions. And, you know, religions can serve evil a lot of, many times. So we see ISIS people attacking Christians and Jews. We saw Christians attacking Muslims and Jews.
We saw them. So this fighting, this killing going on is immoral in itself. But it is something that hides this paranoia. And what is paranoia? When one person or one group or one institution or one country projects onto another group, another person, the cause of their problems, the major cause. Now, you see, what happened in Europe lately, they accepted many steps that led them to ruin, like giving up work, sending everything to China, so they got lost.
They got the grip of their own industry, their own production. They don't produce anymore or produce little. Everything is in Asia now, all means of production, mostly in China. United States with Reaganomics did the same. So Reagan was a puppet of these financial groups, and he almost destroyed all means of production inside United States. And this disempowers people. This takes away the power of people because our power comes from work and from good work and producing good things for us and for humanity.
If we keep this, we have power. If we give it away for being more like in a leisure era or enjoying and traveling and...
Richard: Making money with money.
Cláudia: Yes, when you dream or when you sleep, making money. So giving up all this ethical, but not only ethical and moral, but psychologically balanced values. We know that a person, in order not to be too crazy, because all of us are very neurotic, one must work.
Men have been seemingly more balanced many times than women because of their need to work. They have to work. And if they stop working, they become as crazy as crazy women.
Richard: What are the statistics after men retire? It's in five years, I think. And
Cláudia: it's the same about women. If women give up from their function in life and want to be as crazy as crazy men are, and they are doing this.
Women are doing this. They are fighting for power. They are fighting for freedom to do whatever they please. And this is bringing just distress. You see the increasing of this psychiatric disorders all around the planet. So this is a proof that this philosophy that is being instilled in our civilization... Is instituted. Yeah, it's not right. It's upside down. It's really upside down.
Richard: Dr. Keppe wrote a whole book on this called Work and Capital, where he tried to disinvert this idea that money is the important thing. And Dr. Keppe's premise, as you're stating now, which goes back to ancient philosophy, right, is that the essence of the human being is action. And anybody who works hard knows how
Cláudia: purifying. So you see, Europe brought workers from Middle East.
Right. They invaded all Europe because they didn't want to work anymore. So they accepted all immigrants from Middle East because they wanted them to work for them as sort of slaves in there. Now they have, Europe is not Europe anymore. Culture has gone. Religious values have gone. And so now you see that even without a war, Europe is becoming Islamic. It's a natural thing.
They have many kids. Europeans don't want to have even kids anymore. That's right. They're so lazy now. And they are so egotistic. They want to so much enjoy their own private lives for themselves. It is a decadent philosophy. And in this sense, they see the weakness of Europeans, and it's easy for them now. It's easy for them to dominate. Previously, it was not that easy.
They were strong. They worked. They had good values. Now, what is happening? So this is not a fight amongst just religions, you know, but the religious institutions themselves became decadent even. So when we analyze things, Richard, we go beyond religions. We go beyond social institutions because they are all upside down. So we deal with science, science of the mind, And how the mind of people can be inverted and promote evil for humanity and self-destruction.
Because the evil people, they are self-destructive as well. So it's a matter of becoming conscious of this inversion. My God, if we don't see this inversion in time, we will go directly to the massive or mass suicidal. I
Richard: like so much what you're saying because if
Cláudia: you read the analysis, what's going on or
Richard: watch anything on CNN or anywhere about this situation in France, it's talk after talk after talk after talk.
This expert, that expert, what are we going to do? What's going to happen? Obama's in a very difficult situation. He had a very difficult press conference yesterday, people accusing the Americans of stimulating this situation.
Cláudia: And they did. And they did. And they did.
Richard: But the solution is not sort of at that level. It's at this psychological, philosophical level you're talking
Cláudia: about. It's beyond that because, you know, the Muslims, they are totally paranoid.
They don't see anything in themselves. It's all the Satan is the Western world. Satan is United States. So it's not that simple. And if they succeed now, either one, either part, this will be just a matter of 10 years more, even less. And these will not stop. This Babel Tower that we live, it's not going to stay like...
Richard: Standing up, no. Standing up.
Cláudia: It's crumbling. Now, with this situation, it's so easy. It will be very soon so easy if some group or some person or some group show up and say, we have the solution. And they have already all the strings in their hands and much fewer people to govern because we are heading self-destruction very quickly. So they will come and they will say, look, we have the solution, one world government for ethics, for human rights principles and bringing all solutions.
And then what will be left from us? We will be so weak so destroyed that it will be a kind of easy for them to install this so-called one World
Richard: Government. In a sense, it's easy now. They're sort of doing that. Let's come back in a second, Cláudia, and talk more about this, because this aspect, I think, is really Machiavelli, as you said.
Very kind of scary behind the scenes. All right, we're back in just a moment. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco with Richard Lloyd Jones. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the Stop Radio Network. Back in just a moment. We think
consciousness, the perception of problems, is dangerous. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
In 2004,
Richard: in a small countryside village in Brazil, the STOP the Destruction of the World Association initiated a remarkable project.
Cláudia: Cambuquira is the place we choose to organize our living experiences in Analytical Trilogy. The
Richard: human being and society are dependent on one another. It does no good to try to correct the individual while allowing the social sphere to remain the same.
Cláudia: Like a new model of socio-economic, artistic, educational, spiritual living.
Richard: Our Campo Quira project is a model of a society that nurtures the human spirit.
Cláudia: It's a small place. It's not far from São Paulo. We travel through very beautiful mountains. And there we have our hotel, the largest hotel in this town.
Richard: Welcome to the Grand Trilogy Hotel.
Cláudia: When they go there, they have natural organic food, natural organic milk, natural organic cheese and products, very good meat, but we also have possibilities for the vegetarians. And there we have our hotel, where we apply the concepts of this new world, this new society, a better life to live.
Richard: Classes, businesses, social projects, a better society brought to life.
Cláudia: We have conference rooms, we have a theater, we have musical presentations, we have artists from Brazil and from all over the world coming there.
Richard: Analytical Trilogy has proposals to transform all areas of human activity, leading to the society of the future.
Cláudia: There we will have people immersed, participating in living in a society where the pathology of power is controlled because the pathology of power is more than ever impeding people to survive.
Richard: Sociotherapy, using the world's most advanced science.
Cláudia: The solutions will never come from the powerful. They are coming from the people, from those who are more capable, like artists, like scientists, like educators. So that's what we are doing here, creating mechanisms to live a happier life.
Richard: We are back, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones and Cláudia Bernhaber-Shaker trying to get some perspective on what's going on in Europe. And maybe coming very soon to other parts of the world if this kind of situation is not addressed. And what you're saying just before the break about this, the saviors, right, the knights coming in on their horses to save the world, this is the wolf in sheep's clothing, isn't it?
Yes, it is, and it's very
Cláudia: dangerous. Very dangerous. So how
Richard: do you see that? In a sense, we're seeing it now. We're seeing these trans-Pacific partnerships. We're seeing globalization, this new world order talked about for some time. There is a kind of a restructuring already going on.
Cláudia: And nobody pays attention because they are involved in this ridiculous war. Have you seen the face of those guys they claim to be the brains of the attack?
Are just kids, more than, you know, those dumb, stupid Middle East people. I'm not saying that all Middle East people is like this. No, I know many very fine and wise Middle East people too. But these terrorists, we
Richard: are not talking about
Cláudia: nice people. So
Richard: they
Cláudia: look like mentally retarded people. So they don't know. They could never plan a plot like this.
So they are being led by people from above. And they are being instructed. And they're just being in the hands, not the brain, not the brain. So, my God, doesn't everybody perceive this? It's only a few that open the eyes and they see this is impossible to happen. A guy of 70 to 27 years old in Belgium, you look at him to his picture, he's like a mentally retarded person.
You could never, like, idealize something with this, such a high level of, you know, precise,
Richard: precision. Never, ever. Military precision. Are you suggesting that these manipulators behind the scenes of these Islamic forces are the same as the forces manipulating the Trans-Pacific Partnerships? They
Cláudia: seem to be linked. They seem to be linked.
Richard: And you know something?
Cláudia: These people, they are against all peoples.
We cannot say this is a North American initiative. This is a European initiative or Asian initiative. No. These people are beyond nations. They are beyond religions. They are beyond cultures. And they prefer destroying cultures that are solid cultures. And they prefer to destroy Christianity. Europe is Christian. They prefer to destroy Middle East. Middle East is Muslim. And they have their values. And their culture.
Strong culture. And Jewish too. And they destroy Jewish people a lot already. In the Second World War. And now they have a chance to destroy. A lot of Jewish people in Israel. They all got together there. And they will blame the Arabs. For this mass destruction. That can happen in the Middle East. So at just one confusion they are creating and feeding, they will be able to liquidate the most important Christian culture, which is the European and North American, because they will not leave North American people behind or they will not spare North American people.
Richard: We forgot about North America. That's not going to happen. Can we put a face to these guys? Is it like a… I would not. It's difficult to do that, isn't it? I
Cláudia: would not do this. It's not only difficult, but
Richard: it's dangerous. So people need to open their own eyes and look for this and start seeing beyond the appearances, beyond the illusions, beyond fantasies.
And how do we deal with the automatic naysayers who are going to say, oh, this is conspiracy theory? We say to
Cláudia: them… They do end up by realizing this is true. Look, look around. You know, but besides this non-saying…
Richard: Naysayers.
Cláudia: Naysayers.
Richard: Naysayers.
Cláudia: Naysayers.
Richard: A word for you.
Cláudia: Yeah, naysayers. There are many yes-sayers, and they are already feeling in their own skin what is happening.
There's a lot of information around about this. And people are getting afraid because war is on their doors, on the front doors. So now we are not speaking about apocalyptic predictions. We are not speaking about future happenings. We are speaking about present things that are happening. So people need to wake up, need to wake up. And if we do wake up, things will show up, like solutions, and doors will be opened.
These people have been keeping us like in a trance. And they use even technological means to keep the trance going on. And they use drugs. They use TV. They use Internet. They use a lot of psychiatric drugs. So they use many means. They use distraction, dissipation.
Richard: Very expert marketing, public relations. My God.
Cláudia: My God. They're very advanced in this area. That's true.
You see, if a couple starts doing this projection identification, which Melanie Klein beautifully spoke about, if you start projecting onto another person the idea that that person is causing you, that person is your trouble, that person is your problem, that if you get rid of that person you will be finally happy and you get rid of your problems. And this is so common to happen, so common amongst for instance couples and families. It's very difficult to go back.
It's very difficult to reconcile. It's very difficult to harmonize after this psychological state takes place in a couple. And this happens amongst peoples, too, and religions, too.
Richard: Maybe we could just talk a little bit towards the end of our program, Cláudia, about the good news with the Keppe motor because this sounds like a real leap why we talk about a Keppe motor in this context.
But with the Keppe motor, coupled with the Keppe motor, coming together with it is this incredible philosophy and solutions for our problems through the work of Dr. Norberto Keppe. Coming along with it is a new way of
Cláudia: seeing it. There's inversion at the basis, and this inversion is all over. It's all over. Even the powerful, they suffer from this inversion, and they are deceived.
They are mistaken. They don't know what they are doing with their lives. They don't even imagine what they are doing to their lives. And the consequences that are coming to them, it's really something not beautiful. What a person that accepts to be inverted and to see the world upside down and stick to power, money, sex, drugs, instincts, and mostly power, and mostly economic power.
People who stick to that, they don't have the idea of what they are doing against their own essence. And Keppe deals with essentials. He deals in his science with what is essential. So our advice is not only for good people. We are advising also these evil people that are deceived. Not deceived only by Lucifer or demons, as many people know, but we are talking about a deception that is provoked by our own psychological inversion, which is mostly unconscious, mostly unconscious to humanity.
Yeah, we don't see it. And this encompasses good and evil people. Everybody is inverted. Some people, they try to follow some, as you said, some ethical behaviors, some religious, ethical, or philosophical, or common sense.
Richard: Idealistic. Yeah,
Cláudia: so there are people who follow, but there are those who sink into this inversion. And they are the ones who need the most to be advised.
You understand? I had a client who was very powerful, economic powerful, and he came to do analysis. And after a few years, he changed totally his life. He gave up his power. And he started to use his power for a good purpose. And he said, Cláudia, we need to help the powerful. We are the ones who are in most need. We are the sickest ones, and we suffer.
We suffer a lot, even though many don't accept, don't admit. They don't have the idea of how good life could be.
Richard: That's amazing. So by this idea of inversion, Dr. Keppe's science, we can actually begin to change the world. It looks like something so simple, but it's energetic, it's vibrational, and it's philosophical. If we change the thinking, we change the actions that we do on the planet.
Cláudia: Yes. And as you said, our motor is very efficient. And Dr. Keppe did this new physics out of the experimentation, coming from the experimentation he took from minds of people. So seeing an erotic person lacking action and lacking efficiency in life, he was able to idealize also a motor and a physics that was not upside down. He disinverted physics. So the motor got so much better, and they are still studying means to have even more efficient.
We are the number one in the world. We got the recognition already in this, for instance, in this, how do you call that thing they did in Hong Kong? It
Richard: was a trade show. The largest electronics trade fair in the world.
Cláudia: 150 countries participated.
Richard: 152 countries and
Cláudia: 64,000 participants. So we got the maximum award. Yeah,
Richard: the award for best
Cláudia: of shows. We have the best motor.
And Dr. Keppe developed this understanding that we are like neurotic motors. We are not efficient. We are not having an existence according to our essence. And all is based in studying energy. We're not talking about religion. We're talking about energy, which, by the way, can fit and fits perfectly with an universal idea about God. So if people understand the science, the fighting amongst religious people and religious institutions will stop.
Richard: Evaporates. It will evaporate. There's nothing to fight about. Yes. The fighting stops with Keppe's work. You know, it can seem overwhelming to look at these complex problems and think, how in the world are we going to resolve that? Well, it's here that we need to understand this principle of resonance that Norberto Keppe explores in his new physics. The psychological can exert great influence over the physical, he said in that book.
And this should give us hope that as we improve our consciousness, our physical world adjusts in response. That is what we work for so intently here in Analytical Trilogy. That's our program for this time, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Talk to you next time.
Cláudia: In the United States, there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The New World Order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles.
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: They are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean. The
Richard: people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated it.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
Hi, my name's Thorne, and I love listening to the Stop Radio Network. It helps me to start off my day in a really good mode. The most relevant conversations in the world today on the Stop Radio Network.
