Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: I feed by virtue to be strong enough to bear looking at my sins and mistakes. Even St. Augustine suffered a lot in seeing
his sins. Now, the Stop Radio Network presents another episode in our continuing series on therapeutic theology with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and Richard Lloyd Jones.
Richard Lloyd Jones: "You said in your theology class recently, Cláudia, that we, somehow we hate Jesus. That stood out in my mind.
That we find his values repugnant. So I wanted to just come at it this way, that Dr. Kibbe talks a lot about this, that we call the demons, that we invite them to be here. And maybe some of it is in this way, that we don't give value to the virtues, the values." Richard,
Cláudia: this phrase you remembered I said in my class.
"We hate Jesus." This is so shocking, right? We have to consider some points in here. First, being scientists of the soul, we know about the unconscious or sort of unconscious mind or level where our evil intentions and attitudes are hidden by us, by society, by schools of thought.
By social pressure, religious pressure, because come on. How come a religious person can admit the hatred towards god? This is like a the
Richard: worst sin you could
Cláudia: have. Yes. So what I want to say is that the unconscious mind covers up things that consciously and rationally we would never ever admit. It's like disgusting, horrifying, shocking, repugnant, repugnant.
Richard: Some thoughts and intentions we
Cláudia: need to admit that are in our unconscious level.
Yeah. So why am I saying this? Because in science that started with uh Charcot and Freud and some other psychiatrists. They,
Richard: through
Cláudia: hypnosis, they discovered a lot of things in our unconscious. Another thing is that we all know, all, this is an eternal evidence, nobody, nobody enjoys, likes, loves seeing the truth. Who in clear and sane, balanced mind would state that they love to see their mistakes or they love to see their pathologies, their sins?
You can even say "I love to see" in terms of "I feed my virtue to be strong enough to bear looking at my sins and mistakes." Even St. Augustine suffered a lot in seeing his sins.
Richard: His confessions were all about
Cláudia: that. St. Paul, the apostle, all the virtuous men in the planet suffered tremendously seeing their pathologies. And so this is the reality in all of us, all.
And we have to remember what Jesus said, that he would, in the future, send his spirit to humanity to show all, to see everything, to see all the truth that they could not bear at that time when he came. It was such an enormous rejection they had to the truth that they killed him. And we see this being repeated every day in our lives.
Every day we hide the truth, we attack the truth, we lie, we attack other people because they are showing something in us that we don't want to see.
So this is the biggest problem ever. We are enemies of the truth. So, going a little bit further, we are enemies of God, and we get a part away from Him, as St. John wrote, because He is light. And in front of Him, in front of God, we can see and we see our wrong and evil deeds, and we don't want to see this.
So, we stay away from God and from light.
Richard: Yeah, because Jesus said that "he's going to send the Spirit to show us things that we're not prepared to see now." Do you think we're prepared to see those things now? I don't know.
Cláudia: If there is this science, it's because something is starting. Yeah. We are starting a science that proposes and trains and deals and works with this, increasing the tolerance to admit as much truth as possible about ourselves and about the world.
Richard: So let's try to deal with that specifically.
I was looking at a chapter from Dr. Kempi's new book, Sociotherapy and Exorcism, Sociotherapy and Exorcism. And he said that in his study of sociopathology, "we are led to the inevitable conclusion that our planet is dominated by evil spiritual and human beings. And then he said it's important for us to realize that the rules we obey in all areas of life are demonic." That's a bomb, Cláudia.
And I think this is one of the reasons I think that people don't respond to Dr. Keppe's, the ones who respond, respond well. The ones who don't respond, don't respond because they don't want to let go of following these rules that are demonic in some way.
Cláudia: In 1986, Dr. Keppe wrote a book, Such a beautiful book that brought you here, by the way.
Yes. Liberation of the People. Yes. Pathology of Power. Where he showed that the main and the sickest pathology ever in a human being is the desire for power.
Power to do what they want. Power to do good and evil. Power. Power to decide whatever they want to do. To destroy, to deny, to lie, to cheat, to seduce, to corrupt, to be lazy, to be envious, to be arrogant, to do it
Richard: my way. Yeah.
Cláudia: To have like to let lust and avarice and gluttony.
Richard: Gluttony and wrath and pride and sloth.
Yeah, to dominate and enjoy it and enjoy it, even enjoy it.
Cláudia: So we want the power to do this. But the sickest power of all is the power we want to have over other people and over other people's lives and over other people's accomplishments. And so we want the people or human beings want other people to serve them and not to serve like to be a servant, to become a servant for the people as Jesus taught.
Because our nature is by essence, the essence of a human being is to be good, to do good for other people and for oneself as a consequence.
But human beings don't want to do that, and we are born with this evil desire to have power. Babies are very powerful in their new homes because they scream angrily because they want to do their wishes. They want their wishes, the family, the whole family, to live for them, to serve them. So every child, it's so beautiful, it's like an angel, but he has this inner flaw, the spiritual flaw.
They don't want to be obedient to what is good. So they want to scream and they want to turn upside down all the habits of the house to serve them. If a human being has this too much intense desire to be served and to step on other people. And sometimes envy even dominates because one has to see other people's qualities many times better than ours.
They shine more than us. They are more capable than us. So this humbleness, it's not present in the pathology of power.
Powerful people, they are people who wish too much for power. They dedicate their minds and their lives to escalate in this power game in society. Climbing
Richard: the ladder somehow.
Cláudia: Yes, and they do whatever necessary to... Come there. Here we find the pathology of the powerful in society. Because if you want to be a powerful in society, if you are young and you already think to become a powerful, there is more pathology in you than the average.
So you will dedicate your life to corrupt yourself and corrupt other people to get there. Yeah,
Richard: and we mean corruption now, not in the sense of taking money necessarily.
Cláudia: Also, too. Also. But of corrupting these inner values that we have, right? Yeah, then competition, stepping on others, unloyalty. So these people that jumped to position of power and they got there, they are different from the average, the majority of other people, because they are skilled in games for power and of power.
And they are there to rule the people, to write the laws, to dominate their slaves and servants. They are there to exploit. They are there to take from others because of an envious and theomaniac upside-down attitude to take everything they can, money, talents. They use people so they can become more and more powerful. And we see in the present society that there is a very small amount of human beings and secret societies and corporations that are ruling the world and exploiting.
They wrote down many laws to ensure they would exploit the people. They would not let the people live in freedom and have their own good as they deserve because of this pathology of power. And the pathology of power is very much alike the pathology of Lucifer and demons. People prefer to stay in this horrifying dream state and being slaves, totally slavery.
And this has a spiritual evil component, the main cause. This is the biggest barrier between us and God, us and true life, us and vibration, a
vibrant life.
