Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. The truth will set you free, it is written. Okay, good. But knowing what the truth is, recognizing it when it pulls up alongside, ah, that's a little more difficult. Especially as our materialistic worldview would tell us that truth depends. And this idea of relative truth is a lie that comes to us from somebody else's head.
Today, I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, The Fathers of the Lie. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
And this spiritual part is an important aspect of science that was virtually cut out of scientific consideration with the rise of positivistic science in the middle of the 19th century.
Auguste Comte, the father of positivism, talked about the quest for truth going through three phases, with the theological being the first, or we could say the most immature phase. The philosophical would be next, and the positivist the last, meaning the most mature. And this positivistic phase says that we know the most when we base ourselves on actual sense experience. Right away, we can find some flaws with this view in that we know many things without having experience.
In fact, recent studies at Yale and Berkeley suggest that little babies have working knowledge of basic arithmetic and physics principles as well as a well-developed moral sense from the moment they're born, and all of this with no previous sensory experience. So linking all our societal development to positivistic science bases us not on something superior, but inferior. And we desperately need the amalgamation again of science with philosophy and theology or spirituality, which is precisely what Norberto Keppe's work of Analytical Trilogy does.
What you'll find there, I think, is a lot of discussion points for you. We've tried to develop, Will Lajeunesse and I, I've tried to develop a site where you can actually apply Trilogy to specific areas that you're interested in, so you'll find an applied Trilogical Science area on that website.
Feel free to browse through that and let us know what you think, too, please.
Our program today will be the first of two parts, exploring how the inferior sensory-based science got so entrenched in our academic institutions and our society in general. It's the result of a great lie perpetrated and followed by many great thinkers who were fooled into following the lie.
And that lie has been inspired by the supreme liar in the universe, Lucifer. And that's why reintroducing the 5,000-year wisdom from Judeo-Christian theology is so important. Keppe knows this, and that's why I consider his science the most important science to be studied in the world today. Cesar Soós, one of our great Kepian metaphysics researchers at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy, is my guest today for the first part of Fathers of the Lie.
We'll join him in just a moment when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns on the Stop Radio Network. You're
listening to the most relevant conversations on the planet about how to stop destroying ourselves and the world.
Since the
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: beginning of all civilizations, they had always manifested an enormous interest and knowledge about the spiritual life and spiritual beings.
Richard: It's a world of ancient wisdom that modern science has eliminated.
Cesar Soós: The arising philosophy of positivism preferred to base science on material happenings.
Cláudia: So, only what you can see and touch and feel is real.
Richard: Now, spirituality is being put back into science.
Cláudia: Imagine what would happen if people start considering this as a real thing. Not only as a religious thing, but also a real scientific thing.
Imagine what would happen.
Learn the truth about energy and matter. Dr.
Envy is the primary cause of all maladies. Norberto Keppe. Disinverting the human being and society.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
We are on the Stop Radio Network. Very proud to be there. And I'm joined by my good friend Cesar Soós, one of the inventors of the Keppe motor. I imagine after that pretty intense intro that you're listening, thinking, I wonder what they're going to get into today. So I was thinking to start, Cesar, with a little bit of an explanation of the name of our podcast, because this is directly related to what we're talking about, right?
When you were talking to me when I first came to Brazil, we were talking about philosophy, some of these things we're going to talk about today. And you said, you know, Richard, we human beings think with somebody else's head that we are influenced by ideas without perceiving it. And I never thought about this before, but the ideas we are influenced by come from thinkers from the past whose ideas were adopted.
And because we never study this really, even if we study philosophy, we don't really study it at this depth that we're going to discuss it today. But we're accepting ideas in the culture, in our education system, without even thinking about it. So we are thinking with the thoughts of other people, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. And now here we are doing this podcast into what maybe should have been our first podcast.
Cesar: I guess the audience is a little prepared for it now, right? I
Richard: wasn't prepared for it before, but now I am. Because I want to take a look with you at the seven thinkers who have had the most influence in our current situation on the planet. Where these thoughts came from, who adopted them, and how they came to be in our culture and what the impact of that has been.
I think this is really a very profound subject to tackle and probably not an easy one. And so these are the thinkers who've led us in completely the wrong direction in society. And now with Norberto Keppe's science, particularly his discovery of inversion, we're able to analyze these thinkers and look at their impact in a conscious light. Look at the good things they did, but also the incredible mistakes they made that have led us to the wrong conclusions in our society.
And there is a spiritual element to this, like, because all of these thinkers were unaware of their psychopathology. They made decisions and created scientific theories that were totally wrong. So we have to start with Aristotle. Then what do we have to say about him? What was the mistake he made?
Cesar: Yes, Richard. We can see like a lot of problems going on today and some people have, I think the biggest problem today is that some people, they are comfortable with these problems, saying that this is natural.
For example, wars are natural, misery is natural.
Richard: We've always had them. The depletion
Cesar: of the planet is natural because this is a process of evolution. Mankind always have this cyclical process. This is a kind of very common idea. On the other hand, you have people who really are concerned about our problems and want to solve them. If this was a cyclical problem, for example, there was going not to be a need for urgent solutions, you know, because everything would happen naturally.
But this is not so. The solution for the problems, they happen because of the efforts of people who think in the good. So what happened to the other kind of people that think this is natural? There is an underlying philosophical thought unconscious to them that leads them to think that all that is natural. And this can be placed in Aristotle because he institutionalized the idea of evolution.
And he institutionalized the idea of materialism.
Richard: Right. He didn't talk about these things in those ways.
Cesar: Directly. But his philosophy led to that. For example, when he said that nothing comes to your intellect, is in your intellect, that hasn't come first from your senses.
Richard: Right, you can't understand anything that doesn't come through your senses first. First,
Cesar: yes. He was, in other words, saying that the sensorial life is essential for knowledge.
So your physical body, your instincts are essential for understanding of the abstract world of the things, for intellectual life. And this led to a series of mistakes that other philosophers continue. We started, for example, an era of projection. We forgot to look at our inner life. We have a psychological life that does not depend necessarily ...on the external elements. Ethics, for example, does not depend on external elements.
Or you are ethical to the truth or not. And so this does not depend on your experiences you have in life. Some people are ethical from the moment they are born until the end of their lives. They
Richard: have an ethical base, they have an ethical sense of doing the right thing, regardless of what they learned or what they were taught, right? Yeah, exactly.
So it's not a sensorial experiential thing, it's more an internal essential quality that we're given, right? And so when you say that Aristotle instituted evolution, he instituted evolution in the sense that we learn reality from our experience. Exactly. We don't have anything inside us ahead of time.
Cesar: We do not have like basic principles, consciousness, for example. He simply took out the internal life of the human being.
This would be called inductive reasoning, wouldn't it? Yes, you collect the data from outside and you make up your own opinion based on the data that came from outside, from your senses.
Richard: In fact, all of these people we're going to talk about today, and we are getting to them, Dr. Keppe has talked about in his fabulous book, Universal Man, which Cesar and I have worked on translating into English with great delight and great difficulty, by the way.
In this book, Dr. Keppe talks about evolutionism, capitalism, relativism, all of these ideas which we're going to discuss in more detail, all came directly from Aristotle's inductive reasoning. It's right there in chapter 7 of section 4, where he says this directly, that everything that exists in science, philosophy, or theology should always constitute a discovery, not a human creation, because the truth is to be found in the universals, which are not elaborated by thought or not elaborated by the senses.
Instead, they are part of the being, or better, they are the being itself. So, this is the mistake that Aristotle made in essence. Describe that a little bit more for us, Cesar.
Cesar: For example, we have values, a system of internal values that belong to our inner structure. When you see, for example, a circle, you don't need to see all the other circles in the universe to find out that the other circle is a circle.
That a circle you never saw is a circle. That you to discover that something that is not exactly a circle looks like a circle. You see that the surface is round. This is a concept, an inner concept. No one teaches you that and
Richard: you know without being taught that a circle is not a
Cesar: square. Yeah, for example, no one teaches you this.
Where does this come from? Where does the concept of beauty comes from? If even a child, a child who cries when somebody comes close to the child and say, boo, I am a monster. The child starts to cry. How does he know that? Yes. Because our structure is appropriate for goodness, for beauty, and for truth.
Richard: And that's it. In fact, they found with even little babies, in research being done in California now, I don't remember the name of the woman, but in research being done there, that little babies, if you give them a simple mathematical formula with a wrong conclusion, 1 plus 2 equals 4, the baby will start to be very agitated.
Even without understanding mathematics the baby knows that this mathematical formula is wrong. So it appears that babies from the time they're born have a sense of physical principles of mathematical laws. But the
Cesar: worst problem Richard that happened with this Aristotle's philosophy was the idea of looking for the truth outside yourself. So all of these scientists and philosophers that followed Aristotle, we all, all of our civilization is based on Aristotle and all of us think our problems come from outside.
Our happiness come from outside. Our sickness come from outside, from the food you eat, from the viruses, from this, from that, from the environment and all that, and all of the solutions is to be found outside too.
Man never lived a so projective era than now. We are coming to an end with the complete destruction of the planet and everybody is saying, or not everybody, but the unconscious people saying that follow Aristotle's idea that this is natural. This is just a cycle and we need a catastrophe, for example, to start all over again. No, this is a problem that we do not see.
We are abandoning our internal life. We are abandoning the basic principles of ethics we have inside and we are born with them. This
Richard: is very beautiful. Maybe this dialectical point you wanted to make is important. We have the inner structure of the human being being goodness, truth and beauty. And it's important to say that, that this is a creation, that we are created in this way.
We are not starting in the mud and evolving through millions of years of genetic mutations to become what we are today. We are something in a complete way. What is this essential structure?
Cesar: First of all, Richard, just to explain a little better, there is some theology scholars, many of them, they study what is called the divine triangle and the satanic triangle in opposition to the divine triangle.
In Christianity, we know the divine triangle is the Godfather, who would be God in heaven, God's Son, represented in the figure of Christ, Jesus Christ, and the God Spirit would be the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of the Consciousness. Of truth. Of truth. Let's speak a little bit about this Holy Spirit. This God spirit would be the consciousness inside every single human being.
When we accept this reference point of truth we have in our inner structure. So when you do something wrong, this element inside of you, this God-like resemblance inside of you will tell you, you made something wrong. It's not the society who tells you, you made something wrong. It's not your father, your mother, or whoever who comes from outside. It's you. It is implanted in your being the sense of truth.
How hidden this is inside of you depends on how ethical you decide to be, you know? And this is truth because even cannibals, the Indians, the cannibals, when they eat a human being, they have a ritual of purification. So we have this sense of reality of truth inside of us and so this would be the triangle, divine triangle. But in scholars they say there is an opposite triangle to that, an opposite trinity.
The opposite of God father would be Satan represented as said spoken a lot in the Bible, that would be a spirit. In opposition of God's son you would have the antichrist, that would be a human being that would personalize the spirit of Satan on earth. And this human being would be very smart, of course. A trickster. Trickster, yes. And in opposition to the God spirit, to the Holy Spirit, we would have the false prophet.
The false prophet would be all of the philosophies, All of the isms, Darwinism, Freudism, relativism,
Richard: consumerism, capitalism, Marxism, socialism,
Cesar: communism, all this would be false promises
Richard: of happiness to the
Cesar: human being and to mankind. And the people who brought these isms to earth would be the antichrists of the earth. And so this is the meaning of our podcast for the audience.
Richard: Yeah, and we have to stress that it is this way because the people who've elaborated these theories have been inverted in Norbert Tocchetti's language, inverted spiritually from the truth of themselves.
So they've seen the reality they've looked at. They've seen this in an inverted way and so inverted their theories as a result of that, too. Not because of the conscious desire to mislead, but because of this unconscious inversion. They haven't seen the reality for what it is. Well, we'll come back and discuss this more, Cesar, because there's more to talk about with this.
It's a pretty interesting and deep subject. So we'll do that when we return.
Back in just a moment.
Thank you for listening to the most relevant conversations in the world about stopping the destruction of ourselves and the planet.
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Some governments already admit that life on earth will be extinct in a few years. This is not a certainty. The human being does destroy himself and destroy the world in which he lives. This is called inversion, and so far it is unconscious. But if we wake up now, there is still time to save life on earth. Those who ignore this and do nothing to STOP the Destruction of the World, are helping to destroy it.
The
main characteristic of illness is lack of awareness. Norberto Cappi. Disinverting the human being and society.
We are
Richard: back Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We're talking today with Cesar Soós. Cesar was one of the seminal interviews that I did to get this program underway way back in 2006, I think.
Gosh, has it been that long already? Wow. And Cesar, we have been discussing, I think that what for some might be kind of controversial in looking, you were talking about the antichrists and we've been talking a lot about the wrong ideas or the wrong basis of our science today, stemming from Aristotle, metaphysics. And I think I just want to reiterate again that this is not necessarily an intentional obfuscation of the truth, because the scientists who are working on developing these theories, which have led to our subsequent worldview, have not understood this question of inversion, that they've seen the world upside down.
So obviously, if you see reality in an inverted way the theories that you create are, are naturally going to be inverted as well.
Cesar: And where does it start this inversion Richard? It starts when you think you are a god, even if it's unconscious. And these theories nourish the idea that we are the truth, not that we have to respond to an inner truth that doesn't come from us but through us.
You see, okay, so
Richard: we've done the, the grandfather. Now we're going to go back and number
Cesar: six on the hit parade would be our good friend, a man Dr. Keppe admires very much for his psychological therapeutic technique, Sigmund Freud. Well, Sigmund Freud belonged to an era where materialism, completely materialism, was being instituted in the 20th century in our science. And he led man to believe that the satisfaction of the sensorial life, especially sexual life, would lead man to happiness.
That all of his mental problems would be a consequence of the sexual life. You see, as if human being was just body, just instinct and mind would follow.
Richard: Yes, that the sexual impulse, the impulse for life and for death was the most dominant characteristic of the human being.
Cesar: Yeah. In other words, he pushed man to believe more and more that wars are natural, that sickness is natural, death is natural.
You cannot do anything about it. You just have to contour to go around these problems, you know, because he said we have naturally a death instinct and a life instinct. As if evil inside of you was something natural. And so he helped humanity to hide this voice of consciousness. The Dr. Cappi speaks a lot about this. Hide this voice of ethics inside of you.
This fingerprint of God you were born with.
Richard: That we have the destructive nature we have because of our choice, not because of our essence. Exactly. It's not an essential element of the human being.
Cesar: For example, Richard, he said that you get sick. You get sick when you are censored. And the censorship factor is society, for example, the superego. So he helped human beings to become a rebel against society and against the parents, to attack the father, attack the mother, you see, and attack society.
He helped human beings to go against, to create revolutions. Because, okay, I want to do what I want, no matter if it is good or not. But society doesn't allow me to do that, so I will get sick. But if I could kill that guy, I would do it. Is this ethical? No. So you do not get sick because you don't kill that guy.
You get sick because you do not want to see that you have destructive and violent instincts inside of you. Which are not natural. Which are not
Richard: natural, exactly. And he gave us this idea that we have this huge unconscious part of ourselves that we don't know, that is full of bad intentions and animal instincts and all of these things that are natural to the human being, is what Freud had us believe.
Exactly.
Cesar: Dr. Keppe says that the basic difference is that Freud should have said, the human being gets sick because of the censorship he makes with this inner voice of truth he has. And this is due to theomania, to the mania of feeling yourself a god. Because if you feel that you are a god, you feel that you are always right. You think you are always right.
So when you have a violent instinct, you wanted immediately to blame somebody else, not to see it in yourself.
Richard: So the consequences of Freud, one of the consequences of Freud, is seeing that my problems in life come because I'm being stopped from doing something. I have this id, this incredible desire of animal instincts, of sexual desires. I have this thing, and I have this incredible super ego of the society stopping me from doing that.
And my poor little ego in between the two trying to balance that out. So Freudian psychology would all be about adjusting yourself to the society, finding a way to rationalize this.
Cesar: Where are the ethical values then, I ask you? Where is the inner life, the Holy Spirit in this theory? It isn't there.
Richard: It's completely outside. By the way, Freud was completely... Atheistic.
Atheist. And Dr. Keppe, by taking a step back to the essence of the man, he allows us to see that our desires to destroy are against our nature. That this is a choice we are making, not a natural part of ourselves, but an anti-ethical part of ourselves.
Cesar: And this is very easy to understand because many people, They prefer to die rather than seeing the truth about themselves.
So they are prepared to cause wars, to kill, even to die, rather than seeing their mistakes. Number
Richard: five on our hit parade would be the, how do we say this, the most well-known biologist of the 20th century, although he did all of his work in the 19th century, Charles Darwin. And, uh, this is whenever we enter, we can enter the subject of Freud.
We don't get much mail, but we enter the subject of Darwin and boy, do we get mail because this is a, this is a really strongly held viewpoint amongst human beings. And what I would say to you, if you're reacting in this way now, as you're listening to us is that science is the search for the truth. It's not the search for a theory for proving a theory.
It's the search to find the truth. If there is evidence that can show us a different point of view than the predominant point of view as a scientist, we must listen to that. That is our prerequisite. Truth is the governor of science, not theory, not dogma. So what can we say about our friend Charles Darwin?
Cesar: Well, there are a lot of
Richard: things.
Cesar: Look, he based all of his findings in a variable. Called time. And time is not an absolute variable to start. So if you develop one theory with a variable That is not absolute. The rest is completely wrong. So, he led humanity to believe that we can be gods in the future. That we evolve from one species to another. There never had been any evidence of that.
Never. And this you do not need to be a religious person or connected to spirituality to see that. Because no one came up with proof about this. But this is instituted in science, in schools, as if it was a truth.
Richard: Yeah, and people then say, well, we haven't found the final proof yet, but we will find it.
Cesar: But I would say that what is most important for the listeners to think about is that the idea of theomania, this philosophy nourishes.
Because if you think you are in evolution, you can forgive all kinds of mistakes, taking them for granted. You can forgive savage capitalists for destroying entire countries, putting whole populations in misery, to kill people, to ask their lawyers to lie because they can pay. They manipulate the truth because this is natural. It's part of evolution. If you think like that, so there is nothing to do.
You just sit on your sofa and watch TV and say, OK, in the future, time will naturally respond to that, will naturally put everything straight. It's not like that. Human beings are human beings since the beginning of times. And time is not an absolute variable, is a dependent variable. What exists is eternity. What exists is ethics. And ethics doesn't pass through a process of evolution.
Or you have ethics or you don't have ethics.
Richard: This implies again that we have a nature. We're not growing into a nature, but we have a nature that is complete. As we have an essence that's complete, as we have a form that's complete. And that has been complete since the beginning. It is not necessary to have an evolutionary process to reach this.
We were this from the beginning. And this is an essential difference.
Cesar: And his philosophy of life, if we can say that, also led human beings to kill spirituality. Because if you come from an ape, there is no God. This was nourished the idea that transcendence is impossible, that transcendence is just a dream or a fancy thing. What really exists is matter, is what I can sense.
In this sense, Darwin was completely Aristotelic as well, like Freud. Your happiness comes from the instincts. And here as well, you see the same spirit of the false prophet that I mentioned before, underlying their theories. You see, man replaced God, a wonderful, total beautiful creature, creator of everything. He replaced it by an ape. And even worse than that, Richard, modern Darwinists today believe human beings came from viruses.
So, he replaced Godfather for viruses, which is closer to Satan than God, if you see. So, we can see the satanic trinity working perfectly here as well.
Richard: When you read modern Darwinists, you read a lot about how they talk about how nature has no feelings. Nature doesn't care about you. It only
Cesar: cares about survival. For example, just because you are superior than a dog in evolution, you see a dog and you start kicking it.
No way. The more evolved, let's say, you are, the more you care for the inferior elements. You take care of your house, you take care of your plants, you take care of your cat, of nature. You don't pollute the rivers. So, consciousness is something completely against evolution of human being, let's say. Consciousness is completely against this idea of fight for survival.
Richard: And nature is constantly looking after us.
We constantly have oxygen. We constantly have opportunities to have food and beautiful fruit on the trees unless we destroy it, you know. Let
Cesar: me give you one example of this, how nature can repair our wrongdoings. Here in São Paulo, we have a very important river called the Tietê River. And Tietê River, it gets very polluted, completely dead, no life in the river.
But 200 kilometers away from here, the river, you can drink the water, you know, and it's downstream. So it means nature have their own ways to recover the wrongdoings we do.
Richard: But I also think what's interesting about that is that the nature in its natural state, the river in its natural state, is not a mixture of polluted river and good river. The river in its natural state, this is the thing about the balance of nature.
The balance of nature is perfect. It's not a mixture of perfection and becoming perfection. It is perfection. It works in
Cesar: total harmony.
Richard: It's not becoming anything. So the idea of Darwin is totally based on the idea that we have to become a level of perfect, but nature in its natural state is perfect. It works in perfect harmony with itself.
Cesar: Like Parmenides, the creator of metaphysics in ancient Greece, he said, the being is and cannot not be.
You are what you are and you will always be what you are, a human being, and that's it.
Richard: And the corollary of that is that if you don't exist, you will never exist.
Cesar: Yeah, exactly.
Richard: So a
Cesar: human being existing exists from the beginning. That's why Dr. Cappi says that it's not like Aristotle and the other metaphysicians said. There is the non-being, and then with the time they become being.
It's the opposite. There is the being, and with the time you can become a non-being. You can kill yourself. By
Richard: denying yourself. There is a metaphysical law that says what is can't not be, and what isn't can't be. Well, not that easy to illustrate in a radio program. Tell you what, you scratch your head over that one a little, and we'll prepare for part two soon of Fathers of the Lie.
I can tell you that this philosophy does make a difference to how we see and interpret reality, so it is important. That's our program for this time. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, streaming on the Stop Radio Network. Great to have you along.
In a world where women have struggled to discover themselves and their true purpose, she started
Cláudia: to reject herself, her essence. She started to see in herself, in her femininity, something inferior. Comes a book that frees them to be what they were destined to be. A woman is a link between man and God because of the intuitive and spiritual aspect
and the feeling.
Cláudia Pacheco's Women on the Couch, an incisive analysis of women's psychology that lays out what's gone wrong. We have this big
Cláudia: inversion inside of ourselves that lead us to think that being a woman is not good, is inferior. We don't want to serve. We don't want to be submissive to God, to beauty, to truth, to goodness. And how women can get back on track.
But I understand that the only way for us to free ourselves is to serve, to be
useful, and to grow. Cláudia Pacheco's Women on the Couch, an analysis of female psychopathology.
It helps me to start off my day in a really good mode.
Richard: The most relevant conversations in the world today on the Stop Radio Network.
