Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Never trust a person over 30. All you need is love. Hell no, we won't go. These were the slogans of that last great manifestation against the system, the great flower power movement of the 60s, where American youth were burning draft cards and putting flowers in the rifle barrels of National Guardsmen on college campuses.
It got intense at times. Four students killed at Kent State, The self-immolation of Norman Morrison underneath Secretary of Defense McNamara's office window. Anger and hatred mounting on both sides of the Vietnam War debate. But slowly, as the war ended and the protesters got older, and the lure of big money and Reagan's let-the-bull-loose economy, the protests dwindled away. But the ideals worth fighting for never really disappeared, and now they're back in full flower in Arabia and Greece and Turkey, and perhaps most interestingly, in Brazil.
In a resurgence of democratic idealism many thought lost, youth and concerned people worldwide are marching, liberating the people today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Well, our radio program and the network of which we're a part is very much revolutionary in the sense of striving to bring consciousness, both of the human attitudes, behaviors, and perspectives that brought us to this mess and the steps needed to get us out.
We appreciate you listening and would like to encourage you to spread what we do on the Stop Radio Network out to your social networks. That's how consciousness grows, and that can only be a good thing. Actually, in these movements around the world, it is the social media that are being used to draw people to places and events. So this is the way to spread our message as well.
In Brazil, it's not so clear exactly what people are demanding.
From transit fare hikes to ballooning budgets for the World Cup to the poor state of public health and education, you get the feeling here that people are just generally fed up with everything. And this is what, actually, I find most interesting. It's like, in a way, people are saying, everything's wrong, and you're not going to stop us by just offering a few election promises or piecemeal solutions or a little bit more bread and circuses.
It's not one or two things that need to change, but everything that needs to change. And that makes it a very significant uprising here in Brazil. What's also a little intriguing is Norberto Keppe's discovery of inversion, the psychological process whereby we flip reality upside down and start driving ourselves in the wrong direction. It's like these movements are articulating a general understanding that this inverted philosophy in economics and politics and health and education and every other area has painted us into such a corner that the only way out is to admit it and work to disinvert everything about our social structures and philosophy of life.
In Liberation of the People, Keppe talks directly about these things. He talks about the aim of his science of Analytical Trilogy being to free all peoples. And you might ask, well, free them from what? Well, the answer to that would be that up until today, the peoples of the world have been slaves to the powerful, either directly through physical slavery or indirectly by way of social systems that have been in force since society was first organized.
In all periods of history, under all forms of government, whether imperial or feudal or bourgeois, capitalist, Marxist, mankind has been in service to the ruling economic and political powers. At no time have the people ever served their own interests. And that's the same as saying that the human being has never really been free. The systems are inhuman, or rather inverted, because they cater only to those few who've acquired social power through money or family or blood ties or by merit of race or nationality.
In fact, individual transformation is no longer feasible unless there's a social change as well. So this being the case, the first and most important step is to disinvert society, turn it around so that those in power work for the people, not against them. And of course, awareness of this situation is the fundamental requirement for social transformation, and this is what Keppe's work does so brilliantly, makes us conscious of really what's going on.
Society has long been controlled by the sickest individuals, and that they fashioned sick laws and created an unhealthy social system in order to dominate the healthier individuals. Now, none of us, of course, can exempt ourselves from responsibility in this situation, because if society is organized in this manner, it's because the majority of the people have not concerned themselves with the problem.
We must become aware of the fact that we are manipulated by organizations that are hostile to us. The advertising, news, and entertainment media have an insane pact with the socioeconomic powers, an unspoken agreement by which they achieve their ends at the expense of the people. Likewise, society has been organized not by the people, but by groups interested in exploiting us. So our initial step is to free ourselves, and the rest will come gradually.
And to do this, we must first become aware of our present enslaved condition. Then we can work to reorganize society, putting it into the hands of those who have the right to it, which is the people. So our greatest obstacle to human freedom has been our lack of knowledge of what being free means. And all of this we explore through Norbert Tocchetti's work and here on our radio program.
It's an exciting program today as we look at liberating the people. That's up next on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Thinking with Somebody
Else's Head, healing through consciousness, analyzing the 1% and the conscious company.
"In the United States, there
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The new world order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles."
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: "They are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean."
Richard: The people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated it.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
We live our lives based on opinions we seldom question. They come to us from family and education, from politics and protest, from TV shows and talk radio. Our worldview is mostly formed from other people's ideas, and whether we know it or not, we are Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. But what if what we believe is limited, incomplete, or just plain wrong? It's a sobering thought, and one which has an enormous impact on how we see the world and how we live our lives.
Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is a radio program that offers a clear and scientific view of what's really going on. The program is based on the landmark work of psychoanalyst and social scientist Dr. Norberto Keppe to provide us with the expansive philosophical, theological, and scientific overview we need to question, define, and explain the human experience. Join host Richard Lloyd Jones and explore the concepts we take for granted to discover if you are Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Richard lloyd Jones, and Dr.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network, proudly streaming there.
A couple of special guests in the studio.
You can say hello. Terry Tully, visiting us from the United States. Hi, Terry.
Hi, Rich.
Richard: And Bob Butler. Good morning. And, of course, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. Hello. We were witnessed last night to about 40,000 people, they say, in the streets of São Paulo, maybe more.
Cláudia: Yeah, and even more in Rio and in Belo Horizonte, Salvador, many cities. Brasilia, the capital, many people took over the Palácio do Planalto, the Planalto Palace, the presidential palace.
Richard: Yeah, presidential palace. And here, too,
Cláudia: they were marching on the palace. And so this is, we say, "unprecedented" because this is not something
that's happened since the end of the dictatorship years in the 1980s where people have marched on the streets protesting the situation in Brazil. And the sort of the straw that broke the camel's back was this 20 percent. ...cent rise in bus prices.
But to bring
Richard: 40,000 people or more out into the streets of São Paulo, it takes more than a little increase in bus prices. People are fed up. Same thing's happening in Turkey, happened in Egypt and the Arab Spring a couple of years ago, the Occupy Wall Street movements. How do you see that? What's happening? What's going on?
Cláudia: If you open up the Internet sites about this, you can see two interpretations.
One is only that people are getting conscious and fed up, as you said.
"They are becoming conscious of the psychosociopathology. They are against the pathology of power. They are being exploited. They are being, like, tortured. And this is something that you can see this." Yeah, taxed
Richard: to death.
Cláudia: Even Bob, when he comes here, every time he comes, he sees further and further this depth of sadness and depression in Brazilian people. The first time he came, it was not so long ago.
And the changes are obvious for him, he said. But the Brazilian people are really being crushed. Crushed. So billions of dollars are like being sent away from Brazil, either to the powerful in the first nations or the richer nations, and also the richest in Brazil. So the difference between the poor and the rich are still something very, very big and the middle class almost disappeared.
So you have more and more rich people everyday, millionaires but the quantity of people of the lower classes are also increasing much more in number and the difficulties in survival and the quality of life in São Paulo it's totally different.
I remember a
Richard: couple of shows ago, you were telling us about how it was when you were growing up, when you were a girl.
Cláudia: It was beautiful. We cannot recognize São Paulo now than it used to be. We cannot recognize. And so this is a fact. And this you see also not only in Brazil, but you see in the United States, you see in Europe, you see in the Middle East, you see everywhere.
Canada. Canada. You see everywhere the same problem of the pathology of powers. But also you see something when you open up the sites and you see people saying, watch yourselves, be careful, this is a manipulation of this global government. So they are feeding these manifestations and controlling the manifestations to bring down the government and install an international worldwide government. As they are doing in the United States, as they are doing in Europe.
But you can see that anyhow, people are becoming conscious of both sides and both things. So if in one hand, they are really conscious that injustice is on their everyday life, is their reality, but also they are becoming aware of the dangers of the medias, of the manipulators and people who are behind the scenes manipulating leaders and the social movements. So I think it's a mixture of people becoming conscious and people manifesting.
Some people say, well, but this was planned, pre-planned. They wanted this revolt to happen. We know, too, this is pre-planned. But this doesn't mean we are going to be quiet. And this doesn't mean we are going to accept a new world government that would bring even more difficulties as it's bringing in the United States. The
Richard: thing started there. This is one of the techniques, Cláudia, to diminish the impact is to say, oh, well, it was all planned.
It was to take
Cláudia: away the fact that, well, okay, it was all planned, but there's 40, 60, 100,000 people in Rio de Janeiro on the streets. And they are not there because they are happy and
Richard: satisfied with their lives. So the same thing in the United States when
Cláudia: the occupiers manifested. Now they are – they don't know what to do. I see – I follow the newspapers and what we see in the United States is that the control is getting so strong and stronger and stronger that people are quiet for a moment, for a while, but I don't know what is going to happen because now this guy, this young man in the CIA, he is denouncing what is happening and really –
Richard: What's his name, Terry?
Snowden. Snowden.
Cláudia: So Snowden, he's manifesting that he's like a hero, American hero. And he said he is aware of the danger of what he did to his life.
We know that too. Yeah,
Richard: he's the whistleblower who revealed the fact that under the Homeland Security Act and all the Homeland Security Department,
Cláudia: they're eavesdropping. You can even imagine that this Snowden is working for the hidden government, that there is something or someone or a group even above Mr. Obama that is trying also to cut down the power and the prestige of American politics.
So a day will come when the decent politicians will have to wake up and do what Dr. Keppe wrote in the book Liberation of the People, Pathology of Power, when he said that "the politicians that have still some decency should get united with everybody who still have some decency in the military, in all areas, to try to recover, to rescue some terrorists.
Extraterrestrial dignity because people now are bringing up the subject and serious politicians are bringing up the subject of us being controlled by extraterrestrials."
So the thing is coming to a place where people who are decent, as I said, who still love life and freedom and democracy, we'll have to get together. This can happen in not a peaceful, totally peaceful way, but we have to be firm.
Richard: There was an interview Bob sent me with the journalist who broke this story about Snowden talking about the courage that Snowden had because he sees what happens when people are whistleblowers.
Terry and I were talking about this this
morning. The moment you start to talk in a critical way about what's happening, you're branded un-American or you're branded a terrorist or these kinds of techniques
Cláudia: they use to marginalize this dissent. But you can't shut down millions of people around the world who are protesting on the streets. Because what Snowden is saying, a lot of people already knew with this patriotic act.
They knew this was happening. So they create a situation for the need, like they are creating in Brazil, a revolt. Also, they are feeding the revolt. So they create the need to some new laws, especially now that we have this Copa do Mundo coming up. World Cup. And the Pope coming up. So people will say, no, we need security. We need the army on the streets.
We need some security. But this is the process, Mr. Jones, of becoming maturation. Yeah, the
Richard: maturation process. Now you're saying something I think that most people haven't thought about, that if this is being stimulated, this kind
Cláudia: of revolt,
Richard: it's being used then to institute more draconian
Cláudia: law. Yeah, like the same as in the United States.
Richard: Same as in the United States. Same.
Cláudia: Canada, too. Canada, the same.
Richard: Cameras everywhere.
Cláudia: Yeah, control, and everybody would say, no, okay, we need that.
We can't survive with all this violence. It's okay, we need that. So we know that there are people who want to cut off the heads of the politicians. This
Richard: is clear.
Cláudia: People
Richard: are wanting to cut off the heads of all politicians, not
Cláudia: only Dilma, Not only Obama, but all the politicians. It's like they are in the middle of this pyramid of power.
They are the middle. So far, they have had advantages. But from now on, their heads will be cut off, too. Not only
Richard: ours. Dr. Kempi talked about the fact that the politicians, actually, their power has been usurped, too, by this secret government, right? That even the politicians are not able to…
Cláudia: Started with the politicians. All this mess started by buying the politicians, buying and shutting them off.
Yeah.
Richard: Taping their mouth shut.
Go ahead, Bobby. And what was really interesting, and Dr.
Cláudia said it, waking up last night, someone who I spoke to who normally is very quiet, when he got online, he said, "I'm happy. I'm happy. The people of Brazil are finally waking up."
Richard: Yeah. This is something to really pay attention to. But, you know, in talking with my students last night, you guys, I realized that people, it's the same thing that happened in the French Revolution.
It's happened, Occupy Wall Street, the Arab Spring. There's this huge uprising. But then what do we replace this, in Portuguese we say porcaria, this garbage with? We have to have some sort of structure in place to take care of that. And so I was reading them a little piece from Liberation of the People, which is the book I always turn to when these kinds of things come up.
And Dr. Keppe says, "the reader may be asking, how can this situation be corrected?"
He was dealing with this in his book on the pathology of power. He says, "the answer is this. First of all, society must be restructured. That is, the people must put the society in the hands of those who are honest. Second, we must create a type of social organization that's trilogical. Having action as its base, with money and prestige relegated to a secondary position.
And third, if we're going to succeed in disinverting society, we must become conscious of our own destructive, envious attitudes and our inversion of values." So there you see like a road map. Not just a rebellion, cut off their heads.
Cláudia: No, no, no, no, no. By the way, Dr. Keppe is totally anti-violent. Totally. Totally anti-violent. Yeah, of course. Totally. He's totally peaceful. He preaches only consciousness, firmness, new laws, ethical laws, and firmness.
Richard: And work. Good work. Good
Cláudia: action. And, of course, good action. Good action. So people who complain should be working also. Like, they start with the example, but if they are not allowed to work, then they must stand up, but in, not in violence. Otherwise, we fall into their traps. That's what they want from us, become violent.
Richard: Because sometimes you get the feeling on the sort of the activist side is the idea that the activists are like holier-than-thou, with super ethical values, and the politicians and the corporations are really corrupt.
But this corruption that's in the human heart is in all of us. We need to conscientize
Cláudia: this. Richard, can you notice, Terry, Bob, you that are here, that never in history before everybody knew that everybody and all institutions are rotten inside. There were phases in humanity where some institutions were like kept intact.
They were not hit by any true consciousness or there was always something that was preserving their position. Now we see that all institutions, all areas are like being exposed as corrupt, starting from churches, institutions, judges, politicians, rich people, nobles, everybody is being exposed now. It is as if the whole or the full truth is coming to the world. As Jesus said, "when the Holy Spirit will come, he will bring the truth that you could not bear seeing now and accepting now." So we are seeing this in all institutions, medical institutions, educational
Richard: institutions, UN, UNESCO, sports, everywhere.
Cláudia: Where human corruption we're back in just a
Richard: moment. You are on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head at the stop radio network don't go
away. Hi my name is thorn and i love listening to the stop radio network it helps me to start off my day in a really good
Richard: mode.
The most relevant conversations in the world today are on the stop
Cláudia: radio network any area of endeavor it's very much stopped by This concept of money, the importance of money, this is the biggest inversion in society.
Richard: In the mid-1980s, Norberto Keppe wrote an extraordinary book that redefined economics and gave us hope.
Sofie Bergqvist: And I understand now that this book, Working Capital, is really the solution.
It gives people enormous freedom to grow and to do even things more beautiful and better for the community and better for everybody. Work
Richard: and Capital is Norberto Keppe's provocative and prophetic view of how the economy has been usurped by the 1% who've tricked the people into a form of slavery. Now, we have the means to set ourselves free.
Cláudia: We are free in economy to work, to do what is good, beautiful, and truthful for humanity, and not to feed the envy, the megalomania, the theomania of a few individuals or powerful people.
Some governments already admit that life on Earth will be extinct in a few years. This is not a certainty. The human being does destroy himself and destroy the world in which he lives. This is called inversion, and so far it is unconscious. But if we wake up now, there is still time to save life on Earth.
Those who ignore this and do nothing to STOP the Destruction of the World are helping to destroy it.
From
the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil, this is the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are trying to think with a different head on our program today about
what's
Richard: going on in the world,
this uprising that we're seeing now coming to Brazil for the first time in 12 years.
I've never seen anything like this before, so this is kind of exciting for us here. And I really want to allow some opportunity for Terry and Bob, our special guests, to speak. As you've been observing, Terry, you've been here for like a week. It's been a whirlwind week, thousands of people on the streets, and you're immersing yourself a little deeper in Dr.
Kepley's work. What are you observing? What's going on? What do you see? Well, I was extremely thrilled to notice last night as the people were marching in the streets that they were young people and that they were very peaceful. And it was a little unsettling just to see that number of people, of course, all in one place. But it was – on the other hand, it was really wonderful to see them involved and to see them peacefully marching and really taking to the streets.
Cláudia: It's impressive to see the power of the people, isn't it? Yes. The number.
The number. The multitude
Richard: raising up. This is really something. It is. And I think, Terry, coming from the United States, we were speaking a little bit about this this morning, how crushed we feel in North America. If we want to speak out against the way things are going, it's so difficult now without being branded a terrorist or, you know, a conspiracy theorist or something like this to actually have your voice heard is very difficult today.
And
I think we were talking earlier about the Obama administration and I think a big part of the disappointment for many people with this administration is that they had high hopes that he was different, that he wasn't corrupted. And that's just sort of an additional disappointment to realize that he's not really that different from any of the other politicians.
Otherwise,
Cláudia: he would not be there.
Exactly. And
Cláudia: he would not be allowed to be there.
Exactly. In order to get elected. And stay in power. Yes. Yeah. Exactly.
Richard: So if we're expecting change to come from the political structure, forget about it. The change is not going to come from there. It needs to come from this 99%. Yeah. You said in one program recently, I've been playing it for my students, Cláudia, that "the thing they fear the most, the powerful, is groups of intelligent people organized around an intelligent leader."
Cláudia: I read this in a CIA manual.
I remember
Richard: that. But
Cláudia: they should watch this kind of gatherings, small intelligent groups that could make the difference.
Richard: Which is what's happening.
Cláudia: Intelligently. But what the powerful do with these intelligent leaders
is they persecute them. They eliminate them in some way or try to eliminate them.
And so one thing you notice in this Occupy movement, they have this big focus on no leaders. We don't want leaders. We're like an anti-leadership. No, you can't do that. We have to have leaders.
Richard: We have to have people who give us the orientation of what to do, as Martin Luther King did, as Gandhi did, as Mandela did, as Dr. Keppe has been doing for over 50 years.
Cláudia: And he wants to stay hidden.
Richard: Okay, all right. Now.
Cláudia: All right. He paid his price. So now
Richard: we give the position to
Cláudia: Bob Butler. He is the encubierto, as Christopher Columbus used to say, the encubierto.
Richard: Bob, your observations. You're working with a lot of students down here. What are you experiencing with them and what's happening?
Again, a lot of the students, they're having this awareness.
They're waking up. They feel pressured. The cost here in São Paulo is extremely high.
The taxes, automobiles, clothes. And the people really are, as we would say, they're drowning. You know, you can only work so many hours in a day. And many of these people, they begin their day at seven o'clock and at 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night, they're working in the office and they're not being compensated for that additional time. They bring
Cláudia: work to their homes on weekends and they start their lives at least at 4.35 so they can get to the job at 7.
Otherwise, they can't get there because of the public transportation. Yes,
and
Richard: there's no parking and
all these
Cláudia: difficulties.
Richard: And then many of the things that happen in North America with the right-sizing, the
downsizing, optimization, all in the name of profit, where people really are losing their jobs. They live in fear. Their performance at work is impacted because they're not in a state of calmness.
And it's paying its price. And it's here, it's in the United States. And for those who think that the United States is improving, it really isn't. It's, again, the media, the way they present. There's a lot of people unemployed, a lot of people who are not working full-time. Their hours are being reduced. This is an epidemic, and I think the epidemic is...
Truly coming when the people of the world, the power of the people, nonviolently wake up and begin to make the changes that are needed to bring us back to the real life that we were meant to live.
Richard: There's a saying, nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. And I was thinking the idea whose time has come is this idea of inversion, Cláudia.
If we could have one sort of key concept that would help people in this situation, it would be this understanding of inversion.
Could we talk a bit about that
Cláudia: and how we could see that in – What do you want me to speak about inversion? I think – well, it's a big – I know
Richard: it's a huge topic. So make me a question. Let's talk about inversion. This idea i think of in economics bob mentioned that we put everything in terms of profit ahead of what it is to be
Cláudia: to be a human being.
So maybe we could talk a little bit well first of all work and first of maybe the biggest inversion of all or one of the biggest inversions in economy that richness come from money and not money can come from rich work like the true work and all richness possible comes from the the correct utilization from materias primas from raw
Richard: material yeah
Cláudia: from things that are given by god or if you don't want to mention the word god that are given by nature.
So we We use them correctly.
We do not exploit them to the crazy purpose of just increasing profits, for instance, and giving the true value to work because money doesn't bring more money. As they think, money doesn't bring minerals, money doesn't bring life, health. Money just can or could be correctly used for the true economy. We're not against capital, but we are against the misuse of capital or the inverted use of capital.
Because humanity now is living for profits. What is this? And even more to making profits for the powerful, for just 1% or even less than 1%, making them have more profit. And what are they going to do with all this money? They don't have even money printed anymore in that quantity. They have just numbers in the computer. So they are depriving humanity of the chance of being useful, working, producing, doing good work for humanity to have a good quality of life.
Richard: This is fundamental. And another inversion, as you were speaking, I was thinking about is this idea that I have to work for me versus working for the betterment of society. Keppe says "the basis of this new society is action or better behavior that's directed towards social and individual good." I mean, when you start thinking about contributing in a way to make society better, not just ourselves.
Cláudia: Even scientists now are trying to research on this in laboratories about the influence of altruism and good action in the minds of people and the brains of people. And it's being proved by, for instance, by one of the scientists, Ernst Fehr of Zurich University. And he has shown that when you put in action, he says like a Kepian phrase like this, "charity is love in action or love in movement." So this is what Keppe is bringing to the world since the early 80s or even before that.
There's a notion that ethics is absolutely essential for any other field like economy, education, health, religion.
Richard: Education. You said education,
Cláudia: yes. Oh, psychology. Media. Media. Keppe said "if people would just follow the Ten Commandments, take it seriously, everything would work out fine. If we followed one
Richard: or two of the Ten Commandments." Because
Cláudia: of the inversion, people see in this Ten Commandments a restrain, just like being slaved or being fooled.
Richard: Or being old-fashioned.
Cláudia: So it's totally inverted, totally upside down. Imagine a developed civilization from space that would not be based on this Ten Commandments. It would be impossible.
Richard: One of the students, a lawyer, interestingly enough, in the class said, "But wait a minute, isn't ethics relative? Isn't it like, you know, what's good for you is, you know, this kind of argument that comes up."
It's bad for me, but it's good for you. It's good for him, and it's bad for you. And this kind of idea that we have, I have my truth, you have your truth. And Keppe's work in this area, philosophically, theologically, is brilliant. The ethics is not a relative thing. It's an essential aspect.
Cláudia: And I think that one of the most brilliant discoveries of Dr.
Keppe connected to inversion is the true comprehension of freedom. Because everybody wants to be free. So if one is inverted, and if one looks for freedom by exploding these natural commandments or getting rid of them, we are in reality falling into slavery. And this is absolutely experimental in psychoanalysis, in integral psychoanalysis, not in other psychoanalysis, but in capping psychoanalysis. You can see that one can only be totally free in truth, beauty, and goodness.
So this is the total freedom. This is the cosmic freedom. This is to be in resonance with the universe. This is like participating in God's glory or universal glory, whatever, if you don't want to name this God. But you know the universe. You know the potential, the energetic potential of the universe. And the natural laws are good, beautiful, and truthful. They are balanced.
All imbalance comes from the misuse of freedom. And we must understand this if we want to
Richard: be free. We were looking for this in the 60s, right? Only we got a little bit lost in the LSD. You see the
Cláudia: young people, they want freedom and they deserve freedom, but they look for freedom where? Drinking, drugs, free
Richard: sex,
Cláudia: refusing knowledge, refusing work. So this is a slavery.
So
Richard: if you want to be on a journey for freedom through Norberto Keppe's literature would be a great place to start.
And he says, "just let me finish with a little excerpt from his wonderful book, Liberation of the People, where he talks about freedom. He says, my wish is to be free, and I will be. If you have any sense of dignity, whatever, and wish to live happily and without so many illnesses, it is now possible, once and for all, to put a stop to the powerful and to begin living in harmony with what we are, in essence.
Cláudia: And I wish the
people don't stop
Cláudia: now. They continue. Because I've seen many, many serious people and non-violent people involved already in this. And I think that maybe, maybe they can do something before it's too late. Because in the United States it seems to be like a kind of too late because of the laws they instituted there. Here it's still not instituted.
The laws are still not that rigid or that
Richard: draconian as
Cláudia: the United States."
So at least if we do something before it's too late in Brazil. Now, I understand that we must take seriously the prophecies and I trust fully in what Jesus said that one day the Holy Spirit would come for all and then we would have a period of time here totally different, a Christian, a spiritual Christian. So I'm totally comfortable understanding. No matter what needs to be done, I'm totally comfortable.
Maybe the time is coming.
Richard: Maybe the time is coming for this revolution which I endeavor to stress is not a revolution to a new world as much as a return to a world and values and ethics that we lost. This is why it sits so close to the surface and causes chills when we see this universal spirit expressed. Hats off to the idealists in Brazil and around the world who still let that idealism burn in their breasts and come forward into peaceful protest in the world today.
That's Thinking with Somebody Else's Head for this time. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time on the Stop Radio Network. Bye-bye for now.
