Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Eight or nine years ago, a former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marcia Engel, wrote a book called The Truth About the Drug Companies. It was an often searing critique of their deceptive research methods and business practices that really pulled back the veil on what Dr. Engel calls the marketing machine that the pharmaceutical industry has become.
This is important consciousness. Because the pressure for profits above all other objectives of business has led to a state whereby we're medicating more and more Americans unnecessarily to feed the profit goals of shareholders and executives and not the health goals of the drug takers. Fabricated diseases, diminished alternatives, and multi-billion dollar advertising mean our medical system turns only in one direction now to alleviate suffering, towards the pharmacy.
It's putting big money into drug company coffers and deteriorating the medical education of doctors worldwide. But it's doing something even more sinister. It's killing us, medicating ourselves into oblivion today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
And Norberto Keppe's work, his Medicine of the Soul, really addresses the true causes of our health problems and therefore really helps us get well.
Keppe's work in psychosomatic healing is peerless. A year ago or so, on his deathbed, Dr. Leon Eisenberg, the so-called inventor of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, confessed that the disorder was, in fact, a completely fictitious disease. That's rather unfortunate he waited so long because millions of kids are being doped with Ritalin and Risperdal and other so-called atypical antipsychotics had tremendous prejudice to their health and sanity.
The medical world was in a tizzy about this, of course, with various experts scrambling to assure us that the problem was in over-diagnosis and misuse, and that correct use of these pharmaceutical medications was enormously beneficial. But I would argue that the whole basis of medicating for problems has an inverted base. What is disease, after all? As Freud said, illness comes from the person's envious attitude.
Freud noticed in the psychiatric hospitals in Vienna that the sickest people were the most envious. And Dr. Keppe has united this problem of envy with the problems of arrogance and megalomania. Actually, it was Krappelin, the famous psychiatrist in Germany, pretty much the founder of modern psychiatry, first noticed that illness came from megalomania, that there was this grandiose mania in people who became ill.
So what Keppe did was united this megalomania of Krapalin with arrogance and determined that people became ill not because they're adapted to life in nature, but because they're opposed to the life that they receive from nature. So that when a person rejects, omits, or distorts the truth, life, this is when he becomes ill. So everything a person does against their life by rejecting or destroying or attacking or committing crimes, all of this the person does willingly against their life, consciously or incongentized.
This is the cause of illness. So the truth is that sanity comes from goodness. Illness doesn't. So, we're not victims of illness. Treating disease is not achieved by taking medicine and getting rid of the symptoms and the pain. On the contrary, this medication simply causes us to become inconscientized about the cause of the illness. So, we can then draw the conclusion that medication is the means by which the person hides the cause of his sickness.
Pain, despair, frustration, anguish, these are all the symptoms that the individual needs to become conscious of and try to understand what's causing them. The illness is behind the symptoms. The pain, the desperation, the hyperactivity, these are doors that can open so the individual can move towards the cause of his despair, towards the anguish that he has. The illness isn't in the pain.
It's what is behind the pain or the anguish. And if a person takes medication, painkillers, the pain goes away, he won't be able to see why he's become ill. And getting to the bottom of this inversion is what we'll try to do in our program today when we return, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins us to talk about how we're medicating ourselves into oblivion as Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues on the Stop Radio Network from
the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: In the United States, there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The New World Order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles.
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: They are like sharks, and you are like fishes in an ocean.
Richard: The people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated it.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
Hi, my name is
Thorne, and I love listening to the Stop Radio Network. It helps me to start off my day in a really good
Richard: mode. The most relevant conversations in the world today are on the Stop Radio Network. You are on the Stop Radio Network. Of course, you know that because you've been listening to the promos. And I want to just make available our websites because there's a lot of good information there.
And I want you to take advantage of that. These programs, of course, are a great resource for you who are wanting to know more about Dr. Keppe's incredible science of psychosociopathology. But our websites have a lot of information, too, and so you can check those out.
And there are lots of information about the books and Dr.
Keppe's TV programs there, too, which are the real resource of this science. I mean, our radio program is, in a way, is talking about his work, and he's the one who talks directly about what he does. So his books and TV shows are very important. They're available there.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco has joined me. And
Richard: Yeah, that is also available in English.
So there's a lot,
Cláudia: a lot, a lot of stuff in both of those sites. Yeah, good. Good you mentioned that. Yes. Cláudia, we
Richard: did a program talking about our sort of a trilogical society. What would that be? And before our program, I was telling you about some of the problems that we have in our language school, where students come and love it or don't love it, but mostly love it, but are expecting something different or have some sort of other demand.
And they think, well, yeah, it's really nice. You know what you guys do in the class, the philosophy and the subjects that you cover. But I need something that's more directed to speaking directly with a native speaker. I say, well, I'm a native speaker. I'm speaking to you all the time. Yeah, they don't really know what they want.
Cláudia: Or they don't know really the cause of their insatisfaction.
Maybe. I think it's more this, Richard. Yeah, yeah. You see, these people, they come from where? What place do they come from? Tell me.
Richard: They come from, in this individual case?
Cláudia: Yes. They come from Minas Gerais, interestingly enough. Minas Gerais.
Richard: Yeah, they come from the state.
Cláudia: But what do they do here?
Richard: I don't know much about them. This is the first class that I saw them in.
Cláudia: Do they work in here?
Richard: They're working in São Paulo. I noticed that they're both very competent. They have competent
Cláudia: positions. I don't remember what they do now. So they must have a competent position in large institutions. Yeah,
Richard: big
Cláudia: companies, for sure. Big companies. So they are still human beings, but they work for what?
Richard: They work for the inhuman corporation that dominates.
Cláudia: The inhuman structure of society.
So
Richard: they are totally engulfed
Cláudia: in this situation. So they imagine that all the good things they have come from these corporations and this structure, the social structure. So they learn to respect it. They learn to serve them. They learn to be slaves of them. Some of them work overnight. They stay until 4 or 5 a.m. Working, overloaded, and they don't receive extra payment for these hours that they do.
And they find like they are heroes. The sentiment that in the past people had for their kings, their popes, their nations, a flag, for instance, I'm fighting for my country, this patriotic behavior. This was resumed in being slave or being a heroic person or professional inside
Richard: those large institutions. It's like it's been transferred to those organizations. It
Cláudia: was transferred. So the old cathedrals, the old museums, the old theaters now became the huge buildings of banking and corporations.
And sometimes they don't know even the face of their real true boss, but they know just this intermediary people. And their bosses are unknown, because if they knew their bosses, their true bosses, I doubt if they would be so proud to be serving those kind of people.
Richard: Go running, screaming from the room. Yeah. So
Cláudia: what I think, Richard, and now I have to mention again, an article that was published by Peter Kinderman.
And he's a professor of clinical psychology. And this is a publication by BBC News. And this psychologist, Peter Kinderman, he was making a comment on the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, DSM-5.
Richard: That sounds like a secret service.
Cláudia: Yes, like those projects, secret
Richard: classified projects. But it's not that far from this idea, Richard, because those large
corporations and many of them are the pharmaceutical corporations because they serve two
Cláudia: purposes, at least two main purposes.
One is to profit, because if you depend on some kind of medicine, if you have this dependence, you will see how expensive it is to pay for those medicaments. It's really, really expensive.
Richard: Medicines are very expensive.
Cláudia: And it's so profitable. I
Richard: was just watching a movie about this on the weekend, about a pharma salesman in Chicago, actually, Bob Butler's town. And they were taking busloads of senior citizens up to Canada because the medications were so expensive in the United States.
They were driving up to Canada to buy medications and bring them back. So especially in the United States, the pharma industry is a racket. They make a lot of money.
Cláudia: You probably don't know how it is in Brazil because you don't take medicines at all. No. Because you
Richard: don't get sick
Cláudia: anymore. No, I don't. So you don't need. And we will enter more in depth in why this happens to you and why this happens to the majority, to the vast majority of the people who are doing analysis, trilogical analysis.
Because the other day when we had the visiting of Sterling here, this expert on free energy technologies and green technologies that came from United States to know here, he was really astonished to see the number of people that are here for so long. And working in trilogical enterprises in our psychotherapeutic schools and also living in trilogical residences. But I told him, listen, Sterling, this is not even 10%, maybe 1% of the quantity of clients that we have and have had because we have attended thousands of people And we still have almost 1,000, like, ongoing.
People come and go, people come and they leave, and new come.
Richard: A base of, like, 1,000? A
Cláudia: base, like, around 700, 800 more or less, all together with all our analysts. So we have many people being benefited. And the moment the person starts this process of conscientization, going deeper in the serious true causes of their suffering, their illnesses, and this is the, I think, in my opinion, the most serious scientific method to treat psychological, social, and even organic prevention, preventing organic illnesses.
And curing many times. So it's the most serious one that I know. So all these people that come and do analysis, these hundreds and hundreds and thousands, they have benefited from the method. And there is a totally disinverted approach in this treatment. Here in this article, we see that this new...
Richard: Just give me the name of the article again, Cláudia. Grief
Cláudia: and anxiety are not mental illnesses.
Richard: Grief and anxiety are not mental illnesses. Yes. Very interesting.
Cláudia: So the forthcoming edition of an American Psychiatric Manual and this American Psychiatric Association and American Medical Association and American Psychological Association are all like in the hands of the Rockefeller family. And this is scary. But coming back here, the psychiatric manual will increase the number of people in the general population diagnosed with a mental illness.
Richard: Will increase?
Cláudia: Increase. So, he says here, what they need is help and understanding, not labels and medication. So he's saying here that the new rules are so rigid and intentionally leading doctors to prescribe medication. Yeah,
Richard: this is very clear.
Cláudia: So since the youngest ages, people will be medicated. And psychiatrists, they don't understand anything about psychology and why people suffer. They're going to medicate.
If parents bring up a child, he's not good at school, so instead of seeing the psychological, familiar, social, spiritual causes for this, they go directly and medicate the child. And as soon as they do this, this child will be addicted. And
Richard: they do artificial things. They lower the standards of what is call the disease so they can call more people that disease so they can medicate more people.
This is very clear what they
Cláudia: do there. And as I told, this will create enormous amount of addiction, yeah, and people will never come back to normality, yeah, never. So like he mentions here, the new diagnosis of disruptive mood dysregulation disorder will turn childhood temper tantrums into symptoms of a mental illness. Normal grief will become major depressive disorder, meaning people will turn to diagnosis and prescription as a response to bereavement.
Richard: Bereavement, yes, when they lose somebody close to them. The
Cláudia: criteria for generalized anxiety disorder will be significantly relaxed, making the worries of everyday life into targets for medical treatment, and so on and so on. A wide range of unfortunate human behaviors, the
subject of many New Year's
Cláudia: resolutions, will become mental illnesses. Excessive eating will become binge eating disorder. And the category of behavioral addictions will widen significantly to include such disorders as internet addiction and sex addiction.
So they create the disease. They create a social disease. Marketing, publicity, all the philosophical orientation. We are bombarded by food, by internet, buying things and buying and buying and buying and sex. And so we are bombarded, since we are small children, to consume, to consume. And this consumerism will obviously lead to a mental imbalance, I mean, to psychological insatisfaction and anxiety and anguish.
And to feed the desires of children, whatever they want to have and to buy and to eat, their parents must give them. So it's a social disease, a socioeconomic disease, which is which has behind it a spiritual and psychological disease, especially the pathology of powerful, yeah, who
Richard: want to get us to follow their ways so that we're more. So
Cláudia: this problem with the pharma and the psychiatric drugs, they profit and they have the people hooked on this in the same way that they are hooked in cocaine and crack and other drugs.
And they control their minds because a person who takes this medical
Richard: orientation.
Cláudia: Medication, they are under a chemical straitjacket, and they don't, they're not normal anymore, they don't think anymore, they don't even, they cannot even express themselves anymore. Have you noticed people who take this medication,
Richard: how
Cláudia: they have
Richard: this... Movement back and forth. Yes, they have some...
Cláudia: You do them repetitively. Yeah, so they don't even control their bodies anymore.
Yeah, that's right, exactly. So
Richard: it's really a sad thing to perceive, to be aware of. Let's come back and delve into this more. Cláudia, our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones, Cláudia Bernhard-Basheka. We're back in just a moment.
Home to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness.
Since
Cláudia: the beginning of all civilizations, they had always manifested an enormous interest and knowledge about the spiritual life and spiritual beings.
Richard: It's a world of ancient wisdom that modern science has eliminated.
Cláudia: The arising philosophy of positivism preferred to base science on material happenings. So, only what you can see and touch and feel is real.
Richard: Now, spirituality is being put back into science.
Cláudia: Imagine what would happen if people start considering this as a real thing. Not only as a religious thing, but also a real scientific thing. Imagine what would happen.
Richard: Norbert Dokepi's Universe of the Spirits, a scientific analysis.
Tuesday in New York, and Gwen's headache is now five days old. Wednesday in London, and Ronald's left the hospital for the streets again.
It's Thursday in Mogadishu, and angry students are protesting against corruption. Whether the illness is physical, psychological, or social, Norberto Keppe's The Origin of Illness is a book that gets to the bottom of it and offers a solution.
The
program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Here's your host, Rich Jones, and special guest, Dr.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. Our program is
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the stop radio network at stop radio.org.
That site is available in a number of languages, by the way. So if you're listening in English, is not your native language, chances are you're going to find your native language there because we have a lot of them.
You know, I was I was uh as you're speaking at the very first part of the program, Cláudia, I was thinking of a movie I watched on the weekend about the end of the world coming. It's kind of a romantic comedy, if you can have a romantic comedy in the midst of the world ending. And the idea was that there was a meteor heading towards Earth, and it was going to crash with Earth in about three weeks, and everybody was going to die.
And I was watching the, it was an American movie, and I was watching the reactions of the people facing this end of the world. And people, there was not one element in the movie of trying to think a little deeper about why this happened, what was my life about. The extent of it was sort of like, I want to smoke this cigar that I've never been able to smoke.
I want to eat anything that I want to eat. I want to go to bed with any woman I want to go with. This was how people were reacting to the end of the world, taking the opportunity to do everything that they hadn't had a chance to do in their lives and wanted to. And I was just struck by the superficiality of our culture today.
Because,
Cláudia: you know, Richard, and going back to this that you said, people are starving for emotions and to fulfill desires and more and more and more with no end. So there is not a bottom, a bottom in this. The bottom will be the like the end
of the the humanity. So we
Richard: are living and this agitation, this add like symptoms or ADD, yeah.
Cláudia: Attention deficit disorders everywhere. So you see this eating abnormal habits and sexual addictions and perversions all are a result of an upside-down society where education is upside-down, psychology is upside-down, medicine is upside-down, religion is upside-down, Law is upside down. Politics is upside down. Economy is upside down. Everything is upside down. And this leads to the destruction of the whole planet and humanity.
So philosophy is upside down. Everything is upside down. And Keppe discovered this process which he called inversion. And if we do not understand what inversion means and how this works deeply in our inner lives, in our souls, How we see everything on the opposite direction. And this is a serious, very serious thing. Like, remember some movies where you see those souls or ghosts or sometimes vampires wanting to cross mirrors and crossing mirrors and living inside a mirror.
Yeah. So that's what we intend to do. We are always looking for the good which is behind a mirror, and the good is not in the mirror. The good is behind. The
Richard: mirror is the reflection of what's behind us.
Cláudia: Yes, so the good in our lives is not what we still don't have. It's behind, what we
Richard: left behind. What we left behind, we're seeing the reflection of it, and we're going towards it in the mirror where it doesn't exist.
And
Cláudia: we're getting more and more unsatisfied.
Richard: Yeah, farther and farther away. Farther
Cláudia: and farther away.
Richard: A student of mine was saying he feels it like this in his company. He's an executive, and he notices the company taking a different turn. When he was there at the beginning of the company, it was very much involved in developing a real strong foundation for a company, developing good people and trying to make a contribution.
Now the whole thing's become about money. And he says he feels totally out of place there now, and he's an executive. He's a senior executive. He says, I feel totally out of place here. And then he started thinking, but maybe I'm crazy. Maybe they're right. And what I see is that people stop believing in goodness, that there's any value in value. They start thinking, well, everybody's doing this, so maybe I'm being an idiot by trying to hold to my values.
Cláudia: So now your students, they see something valuable when they hear from the school. But when they come here, this is the opposite of what they do and live. They can't find a way to reconcile things. So that's why they, but what will I do? This I cannot apply in my place. If I start applying this, I'll be sent away. I'll be
Richard: fired.
So
Cláudia: what is this? I have to bring consciousness to the place I work. Like if I have my fellow men, my colleagues, and I start telling them about pathology of power, that the world is upside down, everybody is going in the opposite direction for their happiness, they should stop working for the powerful and start working for society and the common good of humanity.
They should stop counting money and hiding money inside the banking system and bring the money back to society and start using it for a good purpose for all, for culture, for arts, for the true science, for the true medicine. And they have to start saying no to the wrong desires of their children and spouses and bosses sometimes and friends, and they have to start having discipline.
And if they want to be happy, they have to go back sometimes to old values they thought don't exist even anymore in society. Like, they have to go back to the true theology. They have to see their relationship with God, how far they got from God, not from churches but from God, and how far they are from themselves, how far they are from their inner richnesses, how far they are from the feelings of love and affection and all these good feelings that we have and left behind.
This
Richard: knowledge I'm getting here isn't going to help me reach the top, isn't going to help me be a millionaire, so how can I use it? Yes my student said this he feels like a dinosaur. And I said, and when do you think so-and-so, when do you think that doing good became a dinosaur behavior? When do you think that happened? What was the process whereby goodness was banalized so much that it became like, oh, that's, you know, we don't do that anymore.
That's a few generations ago. Today, our modern world is we corrupt and take advantage. When did that happen? What was the process of that happening? Because that would be very interesting to analyze, I said. Anyway, so we got into a conversation about that because imagine building a solid strong company with real values that contribute to the community. This is dinosaur behavior today.
We only think about making money
Cláudia: and where is the money coming from. So this is a big inversion that we see. Where's the money coming from? Money doesn't come from money. You don't have trees like growing money. You even have to print money. But the value of the money, where this comes from? It comes from work. From work, from what we receive from nature and resources, like natural resources that always came from someone, which is a big, big boss, real true boss.
Richard: Yeah, the real foreman of the job.
Cláudia: Yeah, so this all belongs to a creator, and so it's not here by chance, and it will end if we don't take care of this. So the true values are the work, capacity, intelligence, dedication, discipline, the true values. And then nature. And we are destroying all of this. We are destroying nature. We are destroying human values.
We are destroying health. We are destroying humanity to stay with money. What stupidity is this? What is money for? Money was meant to make people's lives with a better quality, to create a condition to live better, to have a longer and healthier life and to have moments of satisfaction of you have a capacity to attend to a beautiful artwork or to run a car that is not dangerous, that you could fly even in flying saucers.
But all of this is forbidden now. You cannot. You don't even afford to go to real beautiful places and to have a good night's sleep and have your vacation time after. Like deserving a vacation time after a period of production and feeling useful for humanity and for your fellow man and for yourself. So it's everything upside down. So what happens? The person comes here and does once or twice a week sessions, and then they go back to the structure, which is inverted, the social structure.
So how can they survive in this social structure? They have to choose. Either they come and they join this social structure, which is disinverted, the trilogical enterprises and trilogical residences, where we apply this disinverted philosophy and medicine and da-da-da-da-da. So we have a disinverted society where you are valued as a human being. So either you come and make part of this and change totally your structure of life, or you give up your analysis.
Or sometimes you continue with your analysis because you are not in that point of, like… Desperation. Yeah, it's not that impasse. You can survive in your job, in what you do, and at the same time doing analysis, just to have a chance not to get sick and being like having to go to the hospital. Cláudia,
Richard: let's talk about the features of this trilogical society.
What are the things that distinguish it from the society you've been describing here for five or ten minutes, which is scary, scary?
Cláudia: We could say that there are very simple principles. We go back to the old, even mosaic values, where the work is valued, very much valued, the quality of work, and the money is something that serves the company and its owners and the people who work in them.
So no speculation, no exploitation are the basic rules for this trilogical company. And then ethics must be the basis. So you don't work for your own glory, even though you get glorious automatically, because what you do will be so good that people will really see you as a glory. So they will be thankful because you help them. So you don't work for your own, just for your own purposes, but you work for the good of the whole, the good of the group, the good of the company, and the good of society.
And there are also, we try, Richard, to apply all the disinversions possible in all areas, not only economical, but also in education, in psychology. As I told you in the beginning, nobody here is anymore taking any drugs. So we have ex-psychiatric
patients working and living in
Richard: these residences. And for years, they don't take one pill anymore. They're off their meds completely.
Cláudia: Yes.
So here we have so-called normal people. We have neurotic, psychotic, severe
psychotic. But all of them, because of this social structure that
Cláudia: was created here, psychological, philosophical, this inverted structure, they can manage a reasonable, healthy life. They have more than the average of the citizen in terms of economic situation. They are above the average. And so they raise their children in a healthy environment.
We don't see here husbands hitting wives or vice versa. We don't see people stealing things. We don't see any more sexual addictions or perversions. This is naturally drug addictions or any kind of addictions. This is gradually being treated. I'm not saying that people become perfect. We all have our mistakes, our pathologies, but this is treated with help, with understanding, with patience, with tolerance, and helping the person to go back to his normality or his good or his well-being.
Richard: This was the thing that touched Stirling the most, actually, even more than the Keppe motor.
Cláudia: Yes, he said, what I saw here, this philosophy of life is much more astounding than the capimotor technology. And it is. And
Richard: the capimotor technology is astounding, too. Yes,
Cláudia: but this is much more astounding, and he's right. Because what a philosophy, what a science that is capable to bring together this amount of people living together for 40, 50 years.
And as he said, they don't
Richard: eat... Each other for breakfast.
Cláudia: Yeah. And that's why we have two or three group therapies per week. We have the individual analysis. We have this conscientization all the time. We have no other means of control other than conscientization, bringing consciousness, bringing truth to the surface and dealing with the truth.
Richard: Truth, something we need more of in this world.
And not this relative truth we hear so much of these days. I have my truth, you have yours. Norbert Tocchetti's Analytical Trilogy is addressing truth universally and applying that back into science. This disinversion is palpable in our community and business structures down here in Brazil.
This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, a production of the International Society of Analytical Trilogy and presented on the Stop Radio Network.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
