Richard Lloyd Jones: As we've explained before, it was Aristotle who led the compartmentalization of science into all its disciplines. He oriented us away from Plato's more universal perspective to looking down to the senses for understanding reality. It was a significant mistake, and in case you've never given any thought to how philosophy drives science, strap yourself in. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, The Revolution in Science.
Prompted by the discoveries of Brazilian-Austrian psychoanalyst and social scientist, Norberto Keppe. Now, this is uncharted territory. Keppe has been working in the field of psychology for decades and has achieved something significant. Through his discovery of psychological inversion, Keppe has been able to finish the mapping of the human psyche. This is no small feat, of course, and a big statement. But as you begin to delve into Keppe's theories and clinical examples, you begin to make sense of many previously inexplicable behaviors in yourself and friends and family members and even in political and social movements and structures.
Reading Keppe's book The Origin of Illness is a treatise on leading edge psychology, and it's frankly light years ahead of anything else in the field. Keppe's big discovery of inversion shows us that human society is upside down. We've inverted our values. Our economy works against people, not for them. Our education system trains us to work for corporations, not to think and be part of a more advanced society.
All this will be explored, of course, at our World Conference of Analytical Trilogy in San Diego, September 24-27, 2008. You can get more information on that conference at www.wcatus.org. And our upcoming teleclass series will explore Keppe's work in much more detail, too. Write me for information on that. It's coming up very soon, rich at richjonesvoice.com. This inversion, Keppe discovered, also affected Aristotle and the fathers of modern science, Comte, Descartes, Newton, Einstein.
When Keppe applies his psychological wisdom to science, it is indeed a very powerful experience. His book, The New Physics, which is available by download, by the way, again, rich at richjonesvoice.com. This book, The New Physics, puts us right side up again, and it's the subject of our program today as it relates to science and how we see the world. Today, I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Cesar Soós joins me in today's program. Dr. Keppe says in the book, right at the very beginning of the book Cesar, The New Physics. Our fundamental problem is our opposition to the energetic vibration at the center of life, an attitude which impedes, destroys the functioning of the DNA within the cells, causing the RNA to fabricate an artificial psychogenome and resulting in disease, corruption and death.
Geneticists call this process reverse transcriptase, when RNA-based viruses, retroviruses, replicate themselves to form a kind of anti-genome. Well, first, let's deal with the energetic issue, says her. What we've thought for thousands of years is that energy comes from the matter. But Dr. Keppe is correcting this. It doesn't. How can we understand this essential inversion in physics? Well,
Cesar Soós: we can see very clear this inversion when we think in practical terms, whenever you want energy, no matter in what form, for example, heat, electricity or power, mechanical power, you think of a material element to give it to you.
For example, if you want to have fire in a fireplace, you think of timber. If you want your stove to work, you think on gas. A heater to have a bath, you think on gas too. And a combustible, which is liquid, combustible for cars. Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element. This is already in our thinking structure we only think about
Richard: that this process then of taking energy from the matter is an inverted idea according to noberto Keppe and we're going to talk about this a lot more in this podcast but this creates a very voracious type of consumption in us doesn't it we want to always take so we have to look for more sources of wood more sources of oil more sources of natural gas more sources of matter from which to derive this energy talk about that it's a psychological thing isn't
Cesar: it yeah this is a psychological thing because dr Keppe points out this very nicely when he says that "we we preferred to have things instead of being ourselves."
So, the concept of being rich today is to have things and not to be yourself. So, because of this thought, we think that the more things I have, the more things I accumulate, I will be richer. And then I forget that all my richness is inside of me. My richness is found in my talents put into practice. This is my richness, not only the material things I have.
Of course, a person who uses his talents well, he will also have material goods. But the other way around, this is not
Richard: necessarily true. One of the things that people have really reacted to in our podcasts in the past, as are the ones we've done, is this idea that energy comes from another source other than from the material. People who are schooled in traditional science have a very difficult time understanding what we're talking about there.
But I wanted to talk about it again in the hopes of clarifying it more, but also to use this new motor that you and Dr. Keppe have discovered and invented, because this is a proof of what you've been talking about in these podcasts and what Norberto Keppe has been talking about all of his life, but especially since the 90s. This motor you're developing takes energy from the outside, not from matter.
What is the principle of this? How is it working? What are you discovering here?
Cesar: Yeah, this is very interesting because physics, for example, tends to believe that electricity is a form of energy. So for you to have power in a machine, you must have electricity flowing through the coils of the machine, if the machine is electromagnetic, for sure. You must have electricity running through the coils to give the power, mechanical power.
And we developed a way to have mechanical power without the flow of electricity, or I mean very little electricity. You work only with potentials, and then we show that potentials are energy itself, is energy itself. We do not need necessarily to have a flow of current to have mechanical power. And this for physics is not well understood because they see invertedly. They believe electricity comes from matter, for example a battery.
A battery has a potential 12 volts, let's say. It has a potential to give electricity, to give a certain amount of electricity. When I put a resistance between this potential, then I'll have a flow of current, and this flow of current is considered energy. But what we have done in our laboratory that we were able to lit up lamps without, with the same power, without this, the same flow of energy, because we are working with potentials alone without flow of current.
As I understand
Richard: it, this motor works, the, the battery is what stimulates or starts the motor to operate.
But then as the motor is in operation, it begins to capture energy from this essential energy field, or scalar energy as Tesla called it.
Cesar: Yes, exactly. People in physics, we tend to believe that electricity comes from the battery. What we are showing is that electricity is a loss of energy, not energy. Electricity is entropy, it's not energy. We are working, let's say, with anti-entropy energy, with scalar energy, let's say.
Richard: Electricity is entropic because, why? Because of
Cesar: this resistance you talked
Richard: about before?
Cesar: No, electricity is entropic because it kills the battery. Whenever you have electricity, you need to have a resistance. And when you put a resistance, a resistor in electronics or in electricity, you kill the battery. If you have for example a 12 volt battery, if you want electricity to flow you need to put a resistance between one pole and the other.
When you put this resistance, then electricity starts to flow, but as the electricity flows the battery
Richard: is killed.
Cesar: And
Richard: this doesn't happen with your motor. With
Cesar: our motor it's different. Of course we use electricity, a minimum amount, because we couldn't manage to completely stop with it. But what we do is to have an enormous output of mechanical power with very, very, very little amount of electricity, and we do not kill the batteries.
Richard: I should just mention that there is a description of this motor on our STOP the Destruction of the World website, and I'll just give that address now for people who are interested in understanding more, because we're going to move on in our discussion now.
Cesar: Yes, Richard, can I make just a further comment on that?
If we are able to recharge a battery with no current or very, very little current, okay, Then we can say that we are using a kind of anti-entropic energy, because it doesn't have current. If we are dealing with an anti-entropic energy, then we can say we can apply this principle to human cells in order to cure tumors. For example, a cancer tumor is a disorganization of the cell itself, is an energetic imbalance of the cell.
And if we treat the tumor exactly like the battery, and we are able to recharge the battery, we could be able to recharge the tumor, let's say, and force the organism to correct the tumor.
Richard: I think Dr. Keppe's work in this area is fascinating, and I want to come back to this whole question of how we affect our actual genetics because of our being out of resonance with this energy.
But first, I want to talk about this energetic source of everything, because I think it's important to try to understand that. This is something people who are schooled in traditional science, again, have great difficulties to accept in our podcast here. In the ABC of the new physics, you say in this book, we do not have to do anything to create the forms in nature like trees and rocks.
Human beings also have forms, and these forms come from energy, not from the atoms themselves. It's the energy that structures the atoms in a certain way. This form occurs prior to the formation of physical matter. The form is in the energy, not in the matter itself what in the world is this world of energy this energetic source that you and especially Dr.
Keppe talk about this
Cesar: energy is found all over the universe, and today physics accepts the existence of energy in the vacuum, but they do not go as far as to say that this energy is organized. But we are asserting that this energy is completely harmonic and organized. What we have is not to produce organization, but just tap into it and capture this organized energy.
And it will, by itself, recover all distorted elements in material world.
Richard: Could we describe this energy then as the soul of matter?
Cesar: Yeah, exactly. Everything we see in nature that has a beautiful form comes from energetic patterns. The pattern for the material already exists in the world of energy. That's why Dr. Keppe says the human beings have a substantial and unique substance.
And that's also why, when we die, we keep our forms because that's the form our energy has. Our souls provide the forms for our bodies. When we get a disease like cancer for example, it deforms the body, which means that cancer is an energetic disease first and then it's transferred to the material form. Everything begins first and in the energetic realm. To whatever degree we reject capturing this energy, that's that's the degree by which we begin to cause deformation in our physical form, because
Richard: normally what we think is I am what I eat.
My energy comes
Cesar: from what I eat. But what you're suggesting is something much more profound now. That we are what we how we capture this energy or not. You know Richard, I think a lot about this. Before the original fall we were made like angels. And every element in creation is beautiful, is good and truthful. So we should be extremely beautiful in origin.
But today we are born like crippled, with longer nose than normal, you know, with many diseases, genetic disease. But these diseases, they are consequence of a fall. Imagine if we start to come back and accept more this energy to enter into us, even our physical bodies will recover the beauty and the functioning they should have. We are working today with less than 10% of what we should.
Our bodies are completely distorted in relation to what they should be as they were created.
Richard: Dr. Keppe talks a lot about how our inversion, our envy, stop us from capturing this energy more completely. In other words, we're blocking, and there's like a little trickle of this essential energy getting through to us, enough to keep us alive, keep us alive for 80 or hopefully 85 or more years, but it's just a little trickle that's barely getting through.
So I wanted to talk a little bit about that, how Dr. Keppe's work is showing us that the RNA is directly affected by our psychology. And the RNA interference changes our genetic structure, causing disease. This has sort of been borne out in these two guys, Craig Mello and Andrew Fire, who won Nobel Prizes for their work in RNA interference, showing how RNA can shut down or silence certain genes in the cell's DNA.
But Keppe was way ahead of them in his proposals. And he's much more complete, too. Cláudia Pacheco, who works with Dr. Keppe very directly, and we've heard from a lot on these podcasts, says, it's not our genes that determine the way we think and feel. It's our spirits, our minds, and our feelings that determine the way our genes will behave. Our spirits, or our metaphysical realms, can improve or destroy our genes.
This is the invisible aspect which has dominance over the material. Our minds, thoughts, feelings, intentions, all of these things are determining how our genes will behave. Wow, can you expand on that a bit for us? That is a really interesting area to
Cesar: discuss. Very interesting Richard, because sometimes a person get a disease, a serious disease, because it, this person has a problem he doesn't want to deal with, he doesn't want to see, so unconsciously she forces her body to work against, you see, and so the body creates that disease so the person can blame the disease and not see his own wrong thoughts, and this is an unconscious process.
Now suppose you go to the psychoanalyst and you start to see your problems, then the diseases start to recover, you, your body becomes sane, more and more sane, but then you are left with your neurotic thoughts, then you have, have to deal with your neurotic thoughts, and then you think you are getting worse, but no, the disease you have solved already, the problem.
Cláudia was telling
Richard: me a story of a woman in her analysis session who was going deaf in one year, and the doctors didn't know why, they were prescribing many things, but through the process of analysis here at Dr Keby's clinic with Cláudia this condition went away, and the doctors said "well you're completely cured, you can go back have a normal life, you can continue as you were, and if the problem reoccurs you come back, but for now we don't need to see you anymore."
And and so the the situation cured itself, but the woman felt depressed because she in a way wanted the condition to continue, she was
Cesar: expecting that it would continue. So we can see here very clearly that the psychological part creates the physical manifestation. Exactly, and this is exactly what happens in the question of the DNA and RNA you just point out a few minutes ago.
You can make your cellular process work on the reverse. Instead of RNA being created by the DNA, you force unconsciously your RNA to interfere in the DNA creating tumors and all of the problems, because our psychological life controls our physical life. Right, yeah, exactly, it's all about energy. Your mind captures energy, organized energy or not. If you refuse this energy, then your body is going to work on the contrary.
Dr Keppe
Richard: puts it this way in The New Physics, this book. That's fast. How many times have you read this book by the way?
Cesar: Five times to make this motor, and even now
Richard: you're discovering new things about it.
Cesar: He says in
Richard: the book, Dr. Keppe does, every illness comes from an energetic imbalance. The individual suffers because of a contradiction between his feelings and ideas.
Bacteria are not the fundamental pathological elements that cause physical illness, but the body becomes vulnerable because of an inverted behavior that weakens it. Yes,
Cesar: I would like to comment this. We are part of the universe. The universe has just one kind of energy, is the divine energy, is this scalar energy which is completely organized. If we are in tune with it, then we are beautiful good and truth like this energy.
If we decide to to create a different reality, to think differently from the way the universe works, then we fall into death and diseases and mental illnesses, neurosis, psychosis, all kind of problems.
Richard: It would seem then that the imbalance that we have inside us would cause us also to begin to attack nature, not only attack ourselves.
Cesar: This is a very nice point you made, Richard, because we work like transducers.
We get energy from the space and we retransmit it to the outer world, to the physical world. We are like transducers, we change one form of energy into another form of energy. So imagine that we can provoke serious imbalances in nature also, because if nature works with this scalar energy, we can interfere in this capturing of energy, and so we can interfere in a plant, we can interfere in an animal, we can interfere in a child.
So that's why we see that a child, a very young child, when he gets sick, for example, is maybe because the parents are having a lot of problems among themselves. You see, so the child captures that because the child is very connected to the parents. And so we should think about the way we think, not to interfere badly. One of
Richard: the participants in our teleclass series which produced this book, The ABCs of the New Physics, a way to understand Norberto Keppe's work, kind of a stepped-down version of his brilliant thinking, one of the participants in that teleclass series said "we are somewhat like energetic transmitters, and when we don't do what we're made to do, which is to transmit or spread energy in accordance with beauty truth and goodness, if we don't do that, if what emits from us is distorted, then we can actually contribute to polluting the universe energetically."
Exactly, that's
Cesar: a
Richard: that's a lot of responsibility for us, isn't
Cesar: it? Yeah, that's why maybe now you gave me an idea, maybe that's the reason why some mystic people, they say from outside the planet they can perceive or they see an aura, a black aura around the planet Earth. Maybe because we human beings are created, we are impeding this color energy, this divine energy to enter into the planet.
Maybe, Richard, even we can say these problems, these physical problems the world is suffering today, like earthquakes and tsunamis and, you know, pollution. It's a consequence of our bad thinking as a whole. We
Richard: are like a sick social individual. Right, which creates an enormous imbalance energetically, which has to be then balanced by nature. Nature has these violent reactions to rebalance things. Isn't this what a thunder, lightning storm is?
To
Cesar: rebalance the... To rebalance. Yeah, this explains exactly what I was saying in the beginning. When we have a difference of potential between the clouds and the ground, then only a lightning bolt can reestablish the equilibrium. So scientists try to create this imbalance so we can have this electricity to provoke energy. But the electricity is just a way to reestablish the
Richard: equilibrium.
I was watching a Discovery TV program. They were showing the ideas that scientists have for how to reduce the global warming situation. You know what their number one choice was? To inject huge amounts of dust into the atmosphere to block the sun's rays, to cool the earth down. This was their number one suggestion. But look, Cesar,
Cesar: what you're talking about is bringing a balance energetically through our conduct, not through something physical.
Again, this inversion. We want to do everything in the material world and not in this more soul, vibrational interior world, right? So these solutions are solutions that are not solutions. They are running away from the cause. I would give the solution. The solution is this, to see their problems. We should see how theomanic we are, how we want to create a world differently from all our other worlds.
This is
Richard: one way to really tap into this essential energy field, but talk a little bit more about that, because at the end of our podcast, it's good to have a kind of a solution-based thing. What do we do? How do we link into this essential energy field more? How do we have to change? What do we have to do? The human being has
Cesar: to always pay attention to his actions for example Dr.
Keppe points out this all the time. That human being is not what he thinks or what he feels. He is what he does. And you know what you do by the consequences of your actions. So the human being will know if his actions are good, if the consequences of them are good as well, for himself and
Richard: for the others. And also, Cesar, if the nature of reality, as you described, is good and true and beautiful, it would seem that our actions need to be in alignment with goodness, truth and beauty in order for us to capture more of this energy, right?
Yes.
Cesar: These concepts of good, beauty and truth, we must pay attention they are not relative. They are absolute, because we are not the ones who create beauty, truth and goodness. These are already existent in the whole universe, so these concepts, they are absolute. If we keep thinking, like we do today, that these are relative elements, we harbor neurosis, we harbor, we give space for psychosis.
This is the
Richard: problem. Application of psychology to science is a useful one. I remember science classes in school and asking, but when am I ever going to use that in my life? Keppe's science is eminently useful, and that makes it worth studying. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Thanks a lot for listening.
