Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. It's as old as philosophy itself. Freedom. Free will. Free choice. We've taken it for granted in our western world. Of course we're free, we gloat, when comparing ourselves to those in the world we consider unfree. Until we're not free to get together in groups or sit tight to another table at a restaurant or even go to a basketball game, which should cause us to howl in protest, except it doesn't because we're scared or mandated.
And then there are the definitions of what it is to be free anyway. Is it free to do whatever we want? Is this choice really mine or am I unknowingly following some external programming? You can see why it's been so much debated in schools of philosophy and religion. In our modern art of persuasion, the skill of the persuader lies in getting you to do what they want but thinking that it's your choice.
What a tangled web. Is there any point in wading into those waters again? I unhesitatingly say yes, for we have a science here that could begin to put it to rights. The science of freedom today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I would like to encourage you to spread our programs a little. You know, I began these podcasts back in 2006. We exploded on the scene.
That was back in the early days of podcasting. The podcast name was pretty provocative. And there was so much traffic that it overloaded my server in the first week on air. Knocked me right off the air. So some technical upgrades fixed that, and we were off and running. I produced weekly back then, but eventually the demands of our dynamic language school here in São Paulo got the better of me, and I slowed production down a lot.
But even at our reduced schedule, we still have almost 200 shows available with some great content, I think. So I'd like to put out a special invitation for you to write me if you're enjoying what we do and pass us on to your network. Rich at richjonesvoice.com is how to get a hold of me. I would love to hear from you. Today, we're going to look at freedom.
I wonder if we're taking care of freedom as we should. We can't start being blasé about defending our freedom, you know. Kissinger said years ago that it would take a world crisis to bring all peoples together to the point of accepting a new world order. And I would be personally very suspicious of that agenda behind any world crisis, pandemic or otherwise. The problem with the powerful, you know, is that they have no idea of their neuroses or even psychoses, and so they are dangerous.
They tend to believe in the survival of the fittest and that they, being successful, are the fittest. But if our socioeconomic environment is inverted, then the most successful there are the most inverted, and hence the sickest. So let's dive into that a little bit today, okay? The Science of Freedom with Klaviyo Bernhard Pashayko in Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns in just a moment on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: There is an age-old question that has stymied thinkers for centuries.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: So how would evil started then?
Richard: Who is behind evil?
Cláudia: There was a mastermind that didn't accept he wanted himself to be
Richard: God. In Norberto Keppe's reintegration of science with philosophy and theology, we have answers to the presence of the evil of Lucifer.
Cláudia: Humanity has been following his inspirations, and all of us live upside down.
Richard: It's time to put it right.
Cláudia: If you really admit a problem, you stay in tune with the truth, and then you are able to open yourself to God's grace.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's Psychotherapy and Exorcism, the book that changes how humanity understands demonic influence in our modern world.
Cláudia: Consciousness has a divine energy in
it.
The program is Thinking
Richard: with Somebody Else's Head and we have not done a program for a couple of weeks. It's busy here in Brazil. It must be busy everywhere that people are listening because of this crazy pandemic, this situation that we're in. Face masks everywhere, alcohol, jail, social distancing.
We're still experiencing this in Brazil, and so we're working very hard to maintain our businesses, keep ourselves going, and we don't always have time to do radio programs. But we are back again today. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco has joined me. And we are, you know, the reason I came to Brazil, Cláudia, you know this.
Cláudia: Yes, I know that.
Richard: Was this book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power.
And let me, I've probably mentioned this many times on the program, but the thing that struck me here was the scientific analysis of the pathology of people in power. Right on the book it says that the first study of the psychosocial pathology of people with power, psychotics who are impeding human development and destroying society. If we don't stop them immediately, we will witness the rapid demise of civilization.
And I thought, well, that explains why when you look at some things that some political leaders have done, not just in the Western world, around the world, you can't understand it. This was the first book that gave me an explanation of that. It
Cláudia: was the first book that was reading about it. That did, yeah. Yeah,
Richard: you could never, ever. Have read
Cláudia: anything about it because Dr.
Keppe was the first one to do it.
Richard: To
Cláudia: do this, yeah. Yes, the first scientist.
Richard: And, you know, it struck me because normally when you read a book of political criticism, it comes from a point of view, the left or the right, the center, the left center, the right center, you know, socialist, capitalist. So normally books about political things are sort of opinion books.
They're about a point of view and a perspective and opinion. This
Cláudia: is a scientific book that looks at it objectively. It's eternal. Being a scientific, it's eternal
Richard: and it's universal.
Cláudia: It's beyond language, beyond religion, beyond politics,
Richard: beyond anything. Keppe said that his work is a scientific work that accepts the existence of the creator. There's another thing that I think is really wonderful.
There's no apologies about
Cláudia: being something
Richard: related to the
Cláudia: creator. And you see a lot
Richard: in the modern world, oh, we can't mix politics and religion. They have
Cláudia: to be separate. By doing so, we came to a dead end. Exactly. Because we cut
Richard: off the cause of
Cláudia: everything. We cut off the cause
Richard: of all causes. The fundamental cause.
Cláudia: Yeah, yeah. So we cannot go beyond the situation that we are now.
It's an impediment that people put in the progress of civilization.
Richard: We have reached a stalemate, a dead end, a wall that we can't overcome because of this
Cláudia: fundamental problem. And this fundamental problem is theomania, or it's envy of God. It's what Keppe sees as an inversion, a total inversion, that we cannot deny the cause and the creator, and the creator of all loss and everything.
Richard: Yeah. And again, there's always this confusion when you start to talk about the creator. There's this confusion between religion and spirituality and all these kinds of things. So it's an area that Dr. Keppe treats in all of his books with brilliance. Richard, now
Cláudia: talking to
Richard: you, I realized
Cláudia: that maybe Dr. Keppe is the first scientist that speaks really about God in a scientific way.
Under a scientific perspective, coming from a scientific point of view, and it's pure science. It's not like Christian science.
Richard: Not a dogma.
Cláudia: Or something that they put religion in science. No. He does this as science. He understands spirituality, God, eternal laws, etc., as an object of science. And
Richard: what does that mean? I can understand or I can think about it from my studies here as like universal values, universal energy, resonance, these kinds of terms that we talk about.
But maybe people listening to us for the first time are not so comfortable or not so cognizant of these terms, don't understand what that means, a scientific vision of God. Could you define that? Is that possible to define in some way?
Cláudia: Well, science has its means to operate and has a body of methodology, a method. And experimentation. So, this reasonable and the scientific reason of things.
When you do and when you study something scientifically, you have a way, a proper way to study it. It's not by intuition or by revelation or by something, opinion,
Richard: not at all. It's scientific. So Keppe got to these
Cláudia: conclusions following the path of science. And when he got to the answers and to this most likely possible cause of everything being God, so everything was like testing and experimenting and reasoning as a scientist.
To
Richard: discover that life has a created essence that is good, beautiful, true, and that anything that's not part of that is a distortion of the reality. You know, this is so great because I've been watching some interviews about this recently with some comedians, interestingly enough, who are exploring this idea of what is it to be human. And one guy was saying, look, if, if we are imperfect, God has to take responsibility for that, right?
God has to be responsible for the fact that we are imperfect. And I think this is a basic misunderstanding of what is the human being that somehow we're imperfect because that's the way we were created to be and not that we are imperfect because of our will, our choice. This is Keppe's work that I think is, it really helps define it. If there are problems on earth, it's not God's fault.
Cláudia: Yes, it's a matter of free choice. It's a matter of really being free to choose accepting or not what we have in front of us and who we are. We don't have other choices than what it is. I mean, reality is there, and we cannot have other choices, other options. We have the option of accepting the universe, which is almost infinite.
Richard: Yeah, because they don't seem to consider that people choose to do wrong things out of an inverted desire, thinking that doing something wrong is my right.
Cláudia: Yes, thinking that if I can deny the good, my well-being, anything good, anything beautiful, anything real, then if I have this choice, I have no responsibility on that. And I have. This is my responsibility. I'm free to accept or not. So this concept of freedom is something very important because William of Oaken a long, long time ago, and here we enter the field of philosophy.
It's necessary to understand philosophy in order to produce a good science.
Richard: William of Oaken was from the Middle Ages, wasn't he?
Cláudia: Yeah, and he said, he was a monk, and he said that the essence of man was freedom. Now, starting from that point, people misunderstood what is freedom and what is about, you know, what we can use freedom for and how we can use it.
And Keppe clarifies that freedom is the right to choose what is real, what exists, what is truthful, beautiful, and good. We are not free to choose otherwise, because if we do, and we have the chance to say no to this, If we do not accept, we deprive ourselves from everything. It's like you imagine a well-balanced person, mentally balanced, emotionally competent, professionally successful, loving, in the field of loving life and relationships, very much fulfilled and happy.
So if you think about a person like this, you cannot imagine a person like this denying things, like denying love, denying action, denying goodness, denying beautiful things, denying health. So we know deep down that we are born to be, to realize who we are. But we can say, no, I want to be sick. I want to have panic attacks. I want to have mental disturbances.
I
Richard: want to smoke. I want to drink. I
Cláudia: want to drink. I want to imagine, to, you know, in Portuguese we have a word. We can dar o contra.
Richard: We can go against.
Cláudia: And this is a tricky thing. Isn't
Richard: it? In Portuguese.
Cláudia: Yeah. The person loves to dar o contra.
Richard: Yeah. People love to say, turn their back on what's right and correct and say no.
Yeah. Right? Like
Cláudia: kids. To oppose. Do your homework. No. Clean your room. No. No. Brush your teeth. No. So, this stupid attitude creates all illnesses. Mental, organic, social, professional, all diseases. Yeah. So, we are not free to say no. If we say no, okay, we get sick. Okay, you can get sick, you can die, you can die sooner, you can commit suicide, you can kill people and go to jail, you can live miserable, as a miserable person, depressed, unhappy, you can, if you like, if you prefer.
So this is our choice, between quotes.
Richard: Yeah. Nothing to do with God, this. Nothing to do with God, this choice to know.
Cláudia: The choice is... Our choice. The choice is our responsibility to say no to God.
Richard: Yeah. It
Cláudia: has all to do with God in this sense. Yeah.
Richard: One time you did a program on, we called it, I think, the energetic frames of society.
And you talked about the universals, these universal principles that you're talking about now, goodness and truth and beauty and justice and love, that those are like energetic frames for what should exist on the planet. In other words, the institutions, the behaviors, the relationships of human beings should reflect those universal energetic frames that were already established for society, that we should have in the earth this kind of mirror image, a reflection of what already exists.
I thought it was a really beautiful program, and I'd never thought about it, obviously, in that way before. You brought something so original to my mind in that program. And I use it often in the classroom because it suggests that the fundamentals of the society are already there. We
Cláudia: need to reflect somehow these values. Like kind of a DNA, right?
Richard: Yeah. And you used the word DNA in this program.
Cláudia: It's a kind of a DNA. And if you see in physiology, our physiology only works if we have this receiving energy, the essential energy, into all our physical elements. I don't know that well the medical English terms, the English medical terms, But we have this cellulostronco. How do you call this?
Richard: Ah, these are stem cells.
Cláudia: Stem cells, right. I remember now. Stem cells.
We have mitochondrias.
Richard: Mitochondria.
Cláudia: Which are like small anthenas. So in all our cells, in all our DNA, the center of our DNA, everything is fed by energy. Essential energy. If we are turned off to this energy, if we are not in tune, resonating with this energy, we get older sooner than necessary. We get sick more often than necessary. And this is science.
This is science. So if we would have a means to feed ourselves all the time with no denial from this essential energy and renewed, we would be eternal. We would not die. So this concept of eternal life for us, it's not just a fantastic concept or an illusion or delirium. No, this has... Scientific ground. It has scientific ground. And probably the old Matusalem and the old guys of the Old Testament that lived until 700, 800, 900 years,
Richard: this
Cláudia: is not myth.
Richard: No, this is a mythology.
Cláudia: It's not a mythology. This is a true reality that can, could have happened.
Richard: But I think we all have that feeling, Cláudia, that we could live longer. I think everybody must feel that.
Cláudia: And about Eden, the Garden of Eden, or the Paradise, we all have inside of us this kind of saudade, as we say in Portuguese, we miss.
A longing. A longing for this lost Paradise. Now, this longing for the lost Paradise is a universal. This is a universal wish that relies in every human inner self. This longing for a lost happiness, a lost paradise, and where we would live forever in peace and happiness. And this was what we have in our genetic memory. We have this in our genetic memory.
Richard: Because if we didn't, how would we ever think about it? Because we've never experienced it. It doesn't come from experience, right? And when they, I often think about this, when they write those beautiful documents, the Declaration of Human Rights or any of those documents, they're beautifully written. They're reflecting something that we know to be true, even though we've never experienced it. So it must be this deep feeling.
Cláudia: And this concept pops up in the mind of many people in different centuries, in different conditions, situations, and different countries, different religions. These concepts, they pop up. And some people speak about them, and they do something towards this direction. And these are the geniuses and the people who transformed the planet for better. Like, now I would like to remember Cristóvão Colombo.
Richard: Christopher Columbus, the guy who was lost on the way to China and bumped into America by accident.
So,
Cláudia: in my researches and some people's researches, but I went deeper in the research, and we can absolutely know that he was not lost. He was not lost.
Richard: He meant what he did. And
Cláudia: what he did, because of this universal he had in his mind, this ideal, because the ideals are universals. So this universal that he had in his mind of this finding the lost Eden, the lost paradise, he was after the lost paradise.
Richard: The new world, he called it.
Cláudia: The new world. And when they came to America, they said, and they wrote, the Portuguese, the Spanish, they wrote to their kings and queens that they absolutely have found the lost paradise. They found an abundant nature, beautiful, abundant, and a people that was living in this situation, and they looked beautiful, innocent, as if they have never knew what is corruption, what corruption is about, what sin is about.
That they were very simple and very receptive, most of them. Not all, but most of them. And they would not necessarily have to, all of them, welcome those who came to take everything from them, to rape their culture. Right. Right? So, thinking about this, this comes on and on, again and again. This ideal that was printed in the beginning of the scriptures of the old Jews and the Judah tribes. When they spoke about the necessity of one day in the future, some tribes coming together to be able to restore the lost Eden on the planet.
This
Richard: is writings from the scripture of a time in the future, right?
Cláudia: They spoke about the testament, what Jacob gave as a testament to his children that formed the 12 tribes. Right. And he said, in the future, Ephraim, Manassas, and Judah, the three children that would create fruitful generations and descendants.
Richard: Even nations. And
Cláudia: even nations. And they did so. And that one day, after fighting and fighting and fighting, they would come together and would bring to the planet, to all nations, a balanced, fruitful, rich, and wise civilization that would correspond to, like, coming back to the Garden of Eden.
And
Richard: the essential nature of humans you spoke about at
Cláudia: the beginning. Yes, exactly. So in my researches, I found out that the whole Latin America corresponds to Judah tribe, which is wisdom. The testament, the heritage was wisdom and spirituality. And North America, comprising United States, Canada, and would be the Menasseh.
Richard: And England, I guess, too, right?
Cláudia: England is Ephraim. But this idea of coming and bringing all together in America to be one day, like recovering the lost.
Richard: And Ephraim and Menasseh are related more to the world of commerce, as I understand it. Commerce and...
Cláudia: Material richness.
Richard: Material richness.
Cláudia: They know how to do money.
Richard: We know how to make money.
Cláudia: Well, some of us would think. I'm not sure I... English and North Americans are really, they know how to make money. They would make money and make beautiful children also.
Create beautiful descendants. This would be their biggest ability. They are economists. And they have proven this.
Richard: Bankers.
Cláudia: And they use it not always for a
Richard: good and wise purpose. Because they don't have the connection with wisdom.
Cláudia: And wisdom and spirituality would be more connected to South America, especially Brazil. Yeah. We know here, we don't know how to do, how to make money.
But we have a strong spirituality. Yes. A strong spirituality. This
Richard: is really clear in Brazil.
Cláudia: So if we bring together these people to work together for a better world, it will happen. And this is like a map or a master plan, a master plan that will happen one day, sooner or later, will happen. And respecting our free choices, anyhow, this will be the tendency of the DNA of the universe.
So
Richard: your work, you and Dr. Keppe, this beautiful work of Analytical Trilogy, the university, is the work that bridges the distance between these two. Yes. Let's say mentalities, right? Yes. Manassas and Ephraim connected to material
Cláudia: goodness, money,
Richard: obviously, power, politics,
Cláudia: structure. Yes.
Richard: And the Judah tribe connected to the deeper values of spirituality, wisdom, knowledge, peace, tolerance, peace, yes.
Cláudia: That those would come together at some point to have, and this is beautiful.
Religious tolerance. Here in Brazil,
Richard: my God. It's unbelievable.
Cláudia: It's unbelievable. It's totally different.
Richard: Yeah, it's totally different. I can tell you, I've traveled a lot. I can tell you there's no country like Brazil in this sense. You could go to a barbecue here, which is a big Brazilian pastime. Well, it used to be a big Brazilian pastime. Now we're stuck in these homes, but okay.
But anyway, and you could go there and you could find, literally, you could find an atheist, a devout Christian, an Islamic fundamentalist, a Jewish prophet, and all of them would be completely harmonized together. There's no sense of separation. It's an
Cláudia: extraordinary country in this sense. Yes, it is.
Richard: I don't know how it happened. It's in the DNA of the country.
Cláudia: It is in the DNA.
What the religious people call the mission of a country. I call it DNA of a country. But it's the same thing. It's a master plan. And even though we are free to live and to walk around in life, we end up by obeying or having to obey a master plan of the universe.
Richard: Whether we want to or not. Yes
Cláudia: we can
Richard: fight against it and say no in
Cláudia: the same way that we did not choose to be who we are and be born from our parents and the time and even exist.
We have never chosen this. We never choose the way to die. No I'm not saying this because people sometimes they commit suicide but normally we don't know when we are going to die and how we are going to die and how is going to be our second birth, meaning when we die, we don't die. It's a kind of second birth that we don't choose as well.
Richard: Into our eternal life, if you want to call it that. Yeah. The real
Cláudia: life. So we don't choose. In reality, our choice is a false choice. We can choose in terms. And if we rebel against it, oh, this is psychosis. This is delinquency. This is hell. Hell? I imagine, is rebelling against reality.
Richard: This is so beautiful in Dr. Keppe's and your work, Cláudia.
It's so beautiful because it's something that gives meaning, purpose, an understanding of what is the arc of the human story. What is it? What are we doing here? Everybody's always asking this question. What is the purpose of things? To just be born, live, make a bit of money, retire, die. No, there's a universal story working out here. And Dr. Keppe's work, I can tell you, listening, Dr.
Keppe's work brings that. This is what I found when I came here. I can tell a personal story about that. That's exactly what I discovered here. Oh my gosh, you mean there's meaning to all of this. There's a reason for all of this. We're here for a reason. Very beautiful. Now,
Cláudia: Richard, almost 30 years ago, 40 years ago, almost 40 years ago, we left São Paulo to New York.
Aha. We went to bring this science and this wisdom to America, to North America.
Richard: To Ephraim and Manassas.
Cláudia: Yeah, that's right. And we went to London, too.
Richard: Yeah, I know you did.
Cláudia: But we didn't know about this thing of Ephraim and Manassas at the time. We wanted to bring science to a developed country, more developed than Brazil.
Richard: With the idea that they might take this science and...
Cláudia: And bring it to the world. What happened when we went is that the pathological powerful were there, ready to impede our work to develop. And that's what happened.
Richard: And that's what happened. They said
Cláudia: no. So we are trying to do this. And in March 2024, I imagine something interesting may happen. March 2024.
Richard: Four years from
Cláudia: now. Because it will last.
Richard: Less than four years, of course.
Three
Cláudia: years. Three
Richard: years and nine
Cláudia: months. Let's see. 23, 22, 21, three years and a half. And that something interesting can happen during this time. And we will see. Probably, luckily, we will be still doing our podcast. Yes. And we should put like in an agenda March 2024 to see the situation of the world and what have changed to give us the reward of working for 40 years to bring the science to benefit the world.
Our purpose is not getting rich, making money. We lost a lot of money. Yeah. Money
Richard: was
Cláudia: stolen, taken from you. It was stolen from us. The powerful did that, and they still try to impede our science to exist. We still continue. We are resilient, and I wonder if Moses took 40 years to bring his people to the promised land.
Richard: Out of the desert.
Cláudia: Who knows if in 40 years we will have some of our dreams fulfilled. Yeah. Let's see.
Richard: Let's see. What a wonderful idea.
Cláudia: Let's see. Let's be humble enough and see what is going to be in 2024. Okay,
Richard: you have an appointment here, 2024.
Cláudia: And check what is going to happen with these demons. All these demons powerful in
Richard: destroying the planet. What is it
Cláudia: going to happen?
What wisdom humanity will get and will take from this three years and a half from now?
Richard: I hope some, because wisdom is in pretty short supply these days. We strut and fret to look after money to the point where we've dumbed down our infused knowledge so much we almost don't recognize our true selves anymore. I think that's tragic. I don't want to be ignorant of those deep currents in the human soul so out of touch that I become an automaton in a world of artificial intelligence and forgotten purpose.
We must not let that happen. That's our program for this time. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
Cláudia: In the United States, there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The New World Order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles.
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: They are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean. The
Richard: people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated him.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to the Stop Radio Network. We broadcast from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil. And our programs, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness, offer the most relevant conversations around about the state of our world and what we can do to make it better.
