Richard Lloyd Jones: Streaming on the Stop Radio Network, this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. The murky world of shadows that constitutes modern leadership is not a new thing, of course. The TV miniseries, The Tudors, lays out in all its deceit and subterfuge the nest of vipers that was the British royal court of the 15th and 16th centuries. Ancient Rome was no picnic either, from the sounds of things.
And the Chinese warlords, scheming to be Taipan, operated within complex webs of treachery. Not much has changed. We're inverted, so we still practice to deceive and think in our boundless delusion that it will all come out okay in the end. It's been that way for centuries. So prevalent is it that we could be excused for thinking that political gamesmanship is just human nature.
Whether it's office competitors vying for the boss's favor, or contestants on a reality TV show pacting to get another sent home, or unelected bank leaders meeting in secret to decide world monetary policy. Treachery and cunning, though, are far from what it means to be truly human, and this disinverted view deserves more headlines than it's gotten. Leadership and spirituality, today, on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. You know, if you're still listening into our programs in its on-demand, downloadable, one-by-one form, thanks for being with us. That's the standard delivery form for podcast material these days. You subscribe through iTunes and receive every new program as it comes available. Or you pick it up through our blog at thinkingwithsomebodyelseshead.wordpress.com or through countless podcast directories where we're featured.
This is how you can listen as and when you want. Play the programs on your demand. But we have a new way of listening, too, that's very exciting for an old radio guy like me. We're now producing a new radio station, the Stop Radio Network, where our Thinking with Somebody Else's Head programs are prominently featured. But we're also featuring some new shows, Occupy activist Gilbert Gambucci's Analyzing the 1% and Susan Berkley's The Conscious Company.
And we've also dug into our archives for our 20 or so episodes of our online call-in advice show, Healing Through Consciousness. So the radio station is available worldwide 24-7 through iTunes radio stations, the news talk genre.
Listen in and let us know what you think and what you would like to hear more of.
Last week we talked about how true leaders must never stop their people from doing good. I was thinking a lot about this, and in fact introduced this idea into a leadership seminar I conducted with my colleagues for about 60 or so top executives of a large banking insurance firm down here.
Political leadership is also bound by this mandate, meaning that our political leaders are not permitted to put we the people into situations where we're forced to do bad or immoral or evil things. This creates an enormous destruction of the fabric or soul of a nation, as we witnessed in recent history in Germany and the Soviet Union. And it's why I found the ceremonial trial in Malaysia, trying Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and others for war crimes in absentia, encouraging.
Not because it will have any impact on them or be recognized in any formal way necessarily, but because it represents more evidence that the world is making a kind of collective decision to not accept this immoral and unethical behavior anymore. This decision to launch illegal and unjustified wars, or any wars for that matter, is something so wrong in a true spiritualized society that it must be recognized as such, and the attempts to bring that indecent conduct to light applauded.
And there's another story you might want to check on. Sybil Edmonds is a courageous whistleblower. She took a job as a translator at the FBI shortly after 9-11. Edmonds is an Iranian-American, fluent also in Turkish, So this was a beneficial skill set to the FBI at that time. What she found at the FBI translation unit were two types of people. One, corrupt sociopaths, foreign spies and schemers indifferent to or actually working against national security.
And second, bureaucrats who didn't like rocking the boat. Well, it was in this environment that she encountered piles of documents and audio files from before 9-11 that had not been competently or honestly translated. She found reports of warnings from the Iranians and the French and others, advance warnings of 9-11, and much more indicating massive FBI cover-up and just plain incompetence about 9-11 and other important events of international importance that we need to know more about.
She wrote a book called Classified Woman. Looks like a must-read, actually. Needs to be front-cover news, but of course won't be. So you can check it out for yourself on her website at boilingfrogspost.com. Just wanted to let you know about a couple of things that I'm aware of that are of interest for all of us here in the 21st century. As we analyze the pathology of power and look at how we can create a more just, equitable, and fair society, which we can definitely do with the science of Norberto Keppe, an Analytical Trilogy that we discuss every week on our program.
We're back to look at leadership and its close, true companion, spirituality, when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues in just a moment. Essential listening for activists, leaders of the 99%, and change agents worldwide.
Liberation is yours. Liberation is ours. Liberation of the People by Dr.
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Richard: Stop Radio Network, along with our program Healing Through Consciousness, Susan Berkley's program, The Conscious Company, and Gilbert Gambucci's Analyze the 1%. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Last time, I feel like one of those old programs, you know, last time on our program, those old radio announcers used to say that, On our program, we were having what I feel was a fascinating discussion on leadership. I have actually been teaching many of the things we talked about in many of my classes that I do here, including taking a little excerpt, about a five-minute excerpt from our program to use as an example.
And in that program, you said a couple of what I think are maybe kind of revolutionary things for me, Things I hadn't thought about in this way before and the way you put them. You talked about how we have exchanged real thinking, real brains, real goodness, a real world of capacity for a world of metality, you said, like a materialism that's made us like metallic people.
And that we've exchanged brains, feelings, ideas, ideals for this much inferior world of material and money and stupidity, I think we could say. And I think that really struck me, Cláudia, because when you put it that way, it shows what we've lost by choosing this inferior world. And so as we were leaving the program, you said that the next time we would talk about leadership and spirituality.
And that's obviously the next thing to consider if we're talking about what we left behind, leaving a real world behind. This has a big link with losing our soul in a way, doesn't it?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Yes. And here we can bring a subject, Richard, which is about spirituality, the true spirituality, the true religion. And what we started to understand about what is religion about or ethics a long, long time ago.
And it went, most of it, in the inverted direction. So what we think about religion today, ethics today, it's not really what ethics is really about and spirituality. And I would like to touch this area, because starting from the trilogical point of view that Keppe brought, ethics is linked, very much linked to goodness, to God, and to love. In the triangle he places about the essence of the human being, he puts feeling of love in one of the...
One of
Richard: the corners of the triangle.
Cláudia: Corners. Reason and the true intellectual life. The other one. The true
Richard: reason. On the base of the triangle.
Cláudia: And up, like harmony, ethics, or a good action.
Richard: Right. At the peak of the pyramid of the triangle. It
Cláudia: is not the will. The will is something that is inverted in us. It can destroy everything. So if we place the will on the top of the pyramid, generally we follow not the true will, which would be ethical in the human being.
We follow a distorted will.
Richard: Because of our inversion.
Cláudia: Because of our inversion. So lately, people who don't like, people who dislike this idea of materialism and consumerism and this hard world with war and etc., They try to bring inside the companies the concept of spirituality. So you have many, many, many seminars and lectures and programs, how to bring spirituality to a company.
And this is a challenge, because what is really spirituality then? What is this about? So we see in the past times when people started to receive some orientation by some contacts established with the prophets or through the prophets or through the enlightened ones, right after they brought this concept. For instance, Moses, he brought the Ten Commandments. So what happened with the Ten Commandments?
Moses' followers, they never followed or they never obeyed the Ten
Richard: Commandments. They didn't like it very much.
Cláudia: And Moses even broke this tablet because he got angry because nobody wanted to follow the orientation. Yeah.
Richard: Didn't they replace, they tried to replace God with an animal head or something?
Cláudia: Yes, and golden symbols and golden statues, and they adored golden statues. So this idolatry, like the idolatry for gold and for material power, was since the beginning of civilization.
Yeah. So you see, Richard, that human beings suffer from a very severe inversion. And they worship evil and what is inferior, what is less important, and they despise the best, the best in life, the best in themselves. Let me give you a very practical example, small one, ridiculous in comparison to what we are speaking about, but it can bring some light to what happens to us.
An example
Richard: you learned from my life?
Cláudia: No, Richard, it's not you
Richard: today. It's not you
today. It's another client I just attended her. It's fresh. So she was overweight. And she was like dating a guy. That she was in love with. But the guy was not interested. In like having anything more serious.
Cláudia: Like as we call in Portuguese Namorar. Yeah.
Richard: How do
Cláudia: you say?
He
Richard: wanted to just go out Yeah
Cláudia: And he had her as a girlfriend And he went out And he dated other girls too And she was so unhappy with that. And she was overweight. And then she decided to start this diet. And she lost 9 kilos, which is almost 18
Richard: pounds. Yeah, it's more than 18 pounds. Maybe 20 pounds. So
Cláudia: she's much more elegant, much more beautiful.
She's young. Because of the sessions of analysis she's doing with me, I was kind of controlling her not to be too controlling with him and too possessive and to and castrate him too much. So he was he started to like to be fond of her.
Richard: He started to like her a bit.
Cláudia: So why not, why not namorala as we say, why not something a little
Richard: bit more official steady girlfriend.
So
Cláudia: she came and she said oh we started to have something, he wanted to have something more serious with me now. And I went to my nutritionist and she said i lost nine kilos and i'm i'm doing very well. So you know what happened. I ate eight large sweets like bonbons we say in portuguese yeah, like these little
Richard: chocolates little candy chocolates yeah, and eight of them.
And she started
Cláudia: she said i'm starting to get like upset because he now is more like we have something more like an engagement more official. But he still doesn't want to go with me to some, he doesn't want really to socialize with my friends and my family. So I, my God, so what do you associate, I told her, eating eight bonbons after?
What happened to you? What is this? What happened to you? She said, well, it happened that I got everything I wanted lately in my life. I bought a new car, I'm seeing more patients because she's a physiotherapist, and I lost 9 pounds, I am more beautiful.
Richard: 20 pounds, she lost 20 pounds.
Cláudia: And now I am, like, my boyfriend is willing something more serious with me, so, and what did she do?
She wanted to destroy, she couldn't stand, she couldn't bear, she couldn't bear all these good feelings she had. She was feeling good, and she is not capable to bear feeling good. And nobody is, really. Nobody is. We are an industry of negative thoughts in our minds.
Richard: You have a lot of experience. You say this with a lot of experience. This is, for most of us hearing this for the first time, this is a huge shock, because we don't understand this.
I understand this now. I've been here 11 years, so I get this. But, boy, the first time you hear that, Cláudia, that's like a shot across the bows of another ship. You know, and you go, wait a minute. What do you mean I don't want to be happy? I want to sabotage. But this is the fact, isn't it?
Cláudia: Always. And if you have a student in your courses, and if I have a client of mine that is really getting better, they start becoming like demonized or showing up this inversion.
Richard: And leaving the course. It's unbelievable.
Cláudia: And they start screwing up relationships, friendships, physical bodies,
Richard: and whatever
Cláudia: they do, they can destroy. And they really do destroy, because we have inside of ourselves this big enemy, which is the enemy against ourselves. We call it inversion, and it's mostly unconscious. This
Richard: is our will that you were talking about. If we put that at the top of the pyramid, we're in big trouble.
And
Cláudia: Dr. Keppe's work in this way is quite revolutionary because the basis of life for Keppe is goodness, not freedom. So society was built totally upside down. And what people call ethics and spirituality nowadays have very little to do with true spirituality and true ethics. Another example. There was a girl, like we were walking with a girl on the beach, and then a poor, very poor guy came with those selling things.
Richard: Yeah, he was selling DVDs, pirate DVDs,
Cláudia: and he was very poor and he was having a hard time to make his living.
We could notice that and he was working anyhow he was working he was not he was not stealing directly people. So she said i will not buy this because it's a crime. And i asked her do you think really that this poor guy is a criminal or the law that people put that only those huge factories of DVD and these huge
Richard: companies...
These huge music entertainment companies,
Cláudia: yes. That they are the only one who can profit and have huge profits, and they put in prison people who would just get a little bit like, you know, they were
Richard: selling less than one-fifth the price. And so the profits would be very
Cláudia: little and he and what will he steal from these millionaires. So he was just getting back a little bit of the injustice of a criminal law.
So laws are criminal most
Richard: of the time. And look what you're doing Cláudia here you're you're defining ethics in such a normally i have a friend of mine one of my ex-wives actually who teaches journalism in university and she says her favorite course to teach is ethics. And they do this kind of ethical thing what would you do in this situation where you know they base it on the the way the system is set up today which is totally inverted.
It's totally sick totally
Cláudia: crazy totally criminal law
Richard: totally criminal law
Cláudia: it's a totally immoral. I agree a person that has billions or millions of dollars when there are people starving walking on the beach
Richard: trying to make a living by selling a few. This
Cláudia: is totally immoral. So laws are immoral. So spirituality is something that must come along. This triangle, love, reason, and harmony and good action.
Doing good. Pure action. So, spirituality, you could name it as the synonym of pure action. One thing that is very, very, it's really a bad thing is that we don't study metaphysics anymore. And we had these studies in all second grade
Richard: schools. We had that. It's so important because philosophy and metaphysics are the basis of any other field of knowledge, any other science.
So when we look at this, we have a much different perspective of leadership in the world today. We're back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on our Stop Radio Network with Cláudia Bernhaber-Shek, looking more at spirituality and leadership. Fascinating subject, don't go away.
Our work on the Stop Radio Network is based on the landmark psychological and philosophical science of Analytical Trilogy developed by Brazilian psychoanalyst and social scientist Norberto Keppe. This is a comprehensive science that offers perspectives on every area of human endeavor. We expand on this extensively in our flagship program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. And we offer many other resources for your development, including radio and TV programs, an extensive library of books, psychoanalysis sessions worldwide, teleclasses, conferences, and lectures, and volunteer social programs.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network. We can be found in a number of ways. We're streaming through iTunes, soon to be through Windows Media. Yeah, this is our next big initiative.
So you can find us if you want. We're going to be coming to Terrestrial Radio soon, too, Cláudia.
Hopefully. There's a station in the United States that's interested in our program.
Cláudia: This will depend on the degree of inversion of people. And ethics. And if people start understanding or becoming
Richard: conscious of their own inversion, even if by resonance or whatever so they will start accepting our science. You said at the end of our last segment that we've stopped to study philosophy, theology, metaphysics so our vaunted progress our vaunted evolution that we talk about really hasn't happened we've really
Cláudia: regressed in terms of our thinking haven't we?
If you see the leadership has been always with very few exceptions of saints and idealistic leaders that you can count on one hand or two hands. And then you can see the leadership, most of the leadership has been to preserve the power and the greed and the control of a few above the majority. The poor, the minorities, as they call them, but we are the majority, we are 99%, and even more than that.
So you see nobles, kings, emperors, popes, cardinals, bishops, all of the owners, the bankers, the owners of this huge
Richard: multinational corporation. CEOs, entrepreneurs in some cases.
Cláudia: So what do they do? They have the leadership to preserve their own fortune, material fortune, not spiritual fortune, because they are very unhappy in the basis. They are very sick and unhappy, but they are always preserving and they are doing and making the laws and paying the politicians to and the rulers and those who are in charge of writing the laws.
They are being paid to maintain those criminal and upside down laws.
Richard: And many times these people who are leaders, they are promoted to leadership positions by the powerful who allow them to... Sure. Their books, their movies, their
Cláudia: companies are supported by these... Everything is organized to preserve their power. And this is not the true leadership. A true leader is a leader who is in charge of promoting the good, the well-being, and the happiness of the people.
And of those who is like guiding, the groups that they are guiding. So we have very few examples in history of true leaders and true spiritual leaders. Now, we had in the Middle Ages the church having leaders, and they put a lot of people on the fire. Yeah, that's right. And people still have this death penalty going on. And we have all these people considering terrorists, those who
Richard: are not in accordance with their ideologies.
So those who don't want to be capitalists, they are considered terrorists. Let me give you an example of that. There's a baseball coach, a baseball coach in the United States. And he spoke, I think he's for the Florida Marlins. Florida is the state that's closest to Cuba. This baseball coach spoke in favor of Castro, Fidel Castro, the leader of Cuba the other day.
He was suspended by Major League Baseball for five games because he spoke in favor of another leader. It's hard to believe, isn't it? It is. We shake
Cláudia: our heads here. We are not saying that Fidel Castro is
Richard: not a dictator. He is. Of course he is. He himself is a dictator. Of course he is. But how come nobody can have a freedom of speech or opinion?
There is not
Cláudia: freedom of thought. So, it will be difficult, Richard, for those who are in leadership, for their own interests, to change themselves. So what must happen is that intelligent,
Richard: goodwill,
Cláudia: goodwilling, ethical people start promoting the perception of this anti-leadership. Because a leader must be, as I told in the other program, a person who guides his followers or his employees to a better position, to improvement, to better wealth, to better conditions of life, to progress, to happiness, and not only to support as slaves, as modern slaves, the power of a few.
So if this continues to continue happening, we will see more and more this kind of manifestations we are seeing all over the world, occupy this, occupy that. So because we don't understand that necessarily those people who are inside those movements, they are good will people, that they are honest and ethical, that they want justice. It seems that many times they want a share of this money, so you are rich, I want some for me, and not to develop a good work and to deserve their
Richard: pay.
In a way to go back to basics. We don't want to go back to the basic fundamentals again. And
Cláudia: we need to work in order to have what we deserve. So work is absolutely the basis of civilization. And especially good work, necessary work, quality work. And so those companies should gradually move from their positions to a position to serve humanity and not to serve the few.
If we have progress and richness to serve humanity, to make everybody richer and having a better quality of life, and even, why not, happiness. Then, at that point, when this happens, we will have real true leaders. But if we don't do this, we will have kapatazes all the time. Kapatazes. Kapatazes. Those people who, oh my God. Captured? No. Those people who take care of the slaves.
All right,
Richard: all right. So the slave masters, all right. The slave masters.
Cláudia: With the whips and then, okay. Yes, we will see this. They get a little bit more than the other ones just to act as controllers and capatazes for the richest ones. So I'll give you another example of this manipulation. I have read this morning something about why not adopting... All over the concept that the laws and the countries should promote happiness to the people, right?
So, of course, this is just one of the major human rights articles. It's in the Constitution. It is in the Constitution. So they
Richard: are bringing back this concept and it seems to be a theme of the social forum of RioPlus20. Coming up in in june
Cláudia: and so i read this and i thought my god that there must be something behind this because no power in the world is interested really in bringing happiness to people.
What what are they talking about
Richard: what's
behind this what is behind
Cláudia: this. So i read we should follow the examples of Danish government and Finnish government, because in a poll, they were considered the happiest people of all the world. All over the world, the first one is considered the Danish, and the second one the Finnish. So, I attend Finnish clients. I attend Danish clients.
I know they are not the happiest people in the planet, and they were saying They're putting Brazilian people
very low in the scale. And,
Cláudia: okay, this can be true because we have a total unfair economic situation here, right?
Richard: Totally unfair.
Cláudia: So what is the basis they are going to use? An economic base to say that Finnish people, they have a better standard, economic standard of living.
And Danish have
Richard: an economic better standard of living, material, material. So that's why they consider them as happiest people in the world. Look at that.
Cláudia: So then I went to the suicidal rates. Who suicides the most?
Richard: Could it be?
Cláudia: So we see that Denmark and Finland are not on the top. They're not on the top. But Finland is the 19th. In 107 countries.
So they are in the 19th position of people who commit suicide. Top 20. And Denmark is the 35th
Richard: in the 107. And Brazil is the 70th. 70 countries before Brazil commit suicide. So you see that when they... Where's Canada, by the way?
Cláudia: Canada, I must see.
Richard: But it's not that much on the top. Lithuania is the first. South Korea is the second in suicide rates.
Japan is high, too, isn't it?
Cláudia: Japan is the seventh.
Richard: And the United States?
Cláudia: I have to look there. Okay, you just took a few. A few. So this thing of being happy, it's
Richard: a very complicated subject. It's not only a matter of material goods, but
Cláudia: it counts. It counts, okay, having a fair situation, economic situation. But there must be something linked to the kind of existence, the meaning of life.
If we are satisfied with the existence we hold or we take, we have, if we realize what is good, beautiful and truthful in accordance to our essence, if we can accomplish the best ideals we bring inside of us. So you can say that you are happy because you are accomplishing, you feel realized. So feeling realized has a lot to do, the feelings of happiness, not to what you have, what you own, not with what you are, because all of us are human beings, but with what we do.
I
Richard: was doing a presentation yesterday, maybe you heard about this, for a leadership seminar we are doing very soon that I'm still hoping you'll be able to help us with, if not physically, certainly spiritually. And I was using a quote from Dr. Keppe where he was lifting something from Heidegger, which said that a human life makes no sense if it's separated from its essence.
Cláudia: Absolutely. So
Richard: happiness has to be something connected to the essence of life. And the essence of life cannot be injustice.
Cláudia: And cannot be far from goodness, beauty, and truth. No, of course not. And it's universal. It's not determined by those who teach us inside the churches or schools. This is an inborn, universal concept. We have it inborn in us.
Richard: So when we forget about that, we are really corrupting ourselves, aren't we?
When we leave that aside and ignore that aspect of ourselves, we're doing a serious damage. And so spirituality is here, isn't it? It's in this journey in life.
Cláudia: Keppe experienced in science, and he brought proofs, physical proofs, like material proofs, that this concept, just one phrase concept, just one phrase, encompasses a whole philosophy and science, which Jesus Christ said. So he brought just one law.
Love God above all things and your neighbor as yourself. And if you say you love me, but you mistreat your neighbor, you don't love me. What you do to your fellow man, you will do to yourself and you will do to me. So doing good, being good, doing the best for our fellow man is the law. Because then the good energy we give or we
Richard: we emit into the world, yeah,
Cláudia: in practice we emanate in action
Richard: through actions, this will
Cláudia: absolutely come back to us in abundance, in abundance, even if the other person does not accept the good that you are doing.
So the world must change its philosophy. If we don't put the philosophy in the right position, like changing egotism to altruism, like changing greed
Richard: to
Cláudia: generosity, competition to cooperation, we will not have... We will have a happy, healthy, spiritual, developed, even scientifically developed world. And we will not have real leaders. We will have those...
Richard: Slave owners, slave... Whatever, yeah.
Cláudia: Slave keepers. Yeah.
And just one thing that I would like to say and mention again. A good leader doesn't mean letting everybody do what...
Richard: Yeah, what everybody else does.
Cláudia: Does? It's not this. A good leader try to keep the line or the essence of the group and the group in itself is like a being that must be in harmony to this principles of goodness, beauty and truth for all.
So democracy is not a thing of everyone or anyone doing whatever they please or they want, because if they do this, they will destroy this organism, which is the company, which is a church, which is a family, whatever group.
Richard: It's a vision of leadership that is so refreshing and necessary to discuss more at all levels of society. So please do pass our programs on to your network.
We're available in a lot of ways on the internet through iTunes on our site at HealingThroughConsciousness.com at thestopradio.org it's available as downloads or our full radio station the Stop Radio Network available as well on those sites I just mentioned. It's always great to have you along with us and hope you'll join us next time too on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Richard Lloyd Jones and Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
We will talk to you next time bye bye for now
