Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Well, another Christmas season is upon us, and with it the annual debate in the hearts of the thoughtful. How to tap into the true spirit of the time, and not just get swept up in the shopping and seasonal festivities. This latter position firmly in the lead, judging by the mad scramble from all parking and the expanded lineups at liquor store checkouts.
And since there's so much attention given in all the normal channels for this economic and convivial perspective, let me fill a gap by taking a stand for the true spirit of Christmas. For the story, rich in lore and wonder and marvelous mystery, is a beautiful one that, in lieu, unfortunately, of being largely ignored 11 1⁄2 months of the year, now finally and necessarily demands to be heard and reflected upon.
It is a time when we who feel this can venture forth our thoughts and feelings about this most sacred of times and contemplate the mystical story that provides the reason for our December celebrations. A study of the divine today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. And a Merry Christmas to you, which in my books comes closer to what I want to express than season's greetings or happy holidays, anything like that.
A fascinating show coming up with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco today, a scientific theological view of the divine. And I'll bet you thought that was impossible, right? But just a little bookkeeping to deal with first.
You'll make him and me feel very good by going there once in a while for all of our updates and info.
Even better if you direct your friends and social networks there. And our liberationofthepeople.org site is also racking up the visits these days. That's where you can go to download Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, Norberto Keppe's essential reading for anyone who wants to see 2012 not be the end of the world. I mention all of this every week, of course, to try to create a resonance field here. Whereby you and I use the various means of communication at our disposal to get the message out about this important work emerging from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil.
Let me know what you think about what we're doing at joneshealing at gmail.com. I was talking to a student this morning about a tough decision he has to make in his department at work. His director is forcing him to fudge the numbers a little so they can hit their year-end department targets to keep the shareholders happy in Spain. He was pretty upset about this because it's going to make things very difficult for a number of departments in the company in January.
My student and I were reflecting on this, about how the shareholders' needs are put before the company's and the customers' needs. And what is this relationship anyway? Shareholders today are largely unknown. Faceless mutual and pension funds many times, and they're investing with the intention of earning money by doing nothing. That's the whole point of investing, isn't it? Throw my money out into stocks on the premise that I'll receive 8% or 10% or 15% return on my money.
For doing what exactly to earn that money? Well, therein lies the ethical problem. The inverted idea of getting something for nothing lies behind much of the stock market's PR. And this is a flawed idea from the start. On top of that, my students' department has been working super hard over the past few months on some ambitious expansion plans the company has embarked on.
Expansion plans that work to increase the value of the shares without putting a nickel extra into the employees' pockets. On top of that, the company directors push the departments to successfully achieve that expansion, all the while sitting with contracts that pay them bonuses on rising stock in the company. Stock that is rising, of course, thanks to the efforts of the massive workforce that stands to gain little from its efforts and being forced to fudge the numbers so those fat cat shares continue to look healthy.
Oh dear, pass the champagne and caviar, Jeeves. I'm feeling a mite peckish. You know, I wanted to talk about this today because it's a level of corruption we don't think about much. We're pretty versed in the political scandals that erupt periodically in our so-called democracies involving misappropriated lottery funds or bridge contracts being awarded to a senator's cousin's engineering company. But this inherent corruption of the market, where money makes money and multinationals are rewarded for laying off 3,000 workers, is more subtly pernicious.
An economic system that permits kids to drop out of school, to mine coltan in the Congo so we can have cheap electronics, is a sick system. Norberto Keppe has written extensively about that, especially in three extraordinary books he wrote in New York City in the 1980s. The Decay of the American People and the United States, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, and Work and Capital.
Liberation of the People is available as a free download, actually, and I highly recommend that book. It's very important for the Occupy movement, especially at this particular stage of our evolution into a better society. That book available for free download, liberationofthepeople.org. You know, I'm not much of a biblical scholar, but I seem to remember Jesus getting pretty indignant with the money changers in the temple, and I take that to be significant.
Our program today is a deep exploration of spirituality and divinity, and I feel strongly that we are all of us here to contribute to the world. And that means becoming conscious of what's going on around us and how we're part of a very inverted society. And then what do we have to do to help disinvert that? Our radio program, I hope, is playing a small part in that consciousness, in raising that consciousness.
And I know Dr. Norberto Keppe's vast body of work is the essential missing ingredient to help us achieve the just, aesthetic, and loving society we each desire deep in our soul. My deepest wish is that this great work become more and more known in our world so desperately in need of it. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is back in a moment with our study of the divine.
Cláudia Harper Shaker will join us. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We're back in just a moment. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Richard Lloyd Jones with you. Dr Cláudia Harper Shaker has joined us again here in the Christmas season and our good friend Susan Berkley has just arrived from the snow of
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: New York. Yes, she prefers to have a hot Christmas.
Yes, in many
Richard: ways.
Cláudia: Yeah, consciousness. Yeah, not even physically
but
Richard: it's weird, Cláudia, to have us to have Christmas when it's 30 degrees. For me this is a totally foreign.
Cláudia: A Swedish client was was telling me
Richard: how come this is not Christmas spirit. So I told her well so you have to find out a Christmas spirit inside of you. Yeah, but it's weird because shopping Al Dorado over here they have snowflakes shopping center and 32 degrees in temperature.
So it's hot but but anyway
Cláudia: anyway 32 Celsius. Yes, right, just
Richard: for in Canada we understand that 90 degrees. But anyway the Christmas spirit has nothing to do with temperature and Jesus was born in a very hot country. So actually maybe the Christmas spirit is more for hot temperatures than it is for cold weather. Maybe,
Cláudia: maybe.
Richard: We have to think about that.
Cláudia: Maybe, yes. We have to rethink the concept
Richard: of Christianity. When we think about Christmas in our part of the world where Susan and I come from, we're not thinking about very much, unfortunately, the real meaning of Christmas. Maybe everywhere in the world this is happening now. It's become a commercial celebration, right? But
Cláudia: it's not spontaneous. Is. This is very well planned. Yeah.
Richard: It's been organized. Cláudia,
Cláudia: you
just said something that's interesting, that we need to rethink the concept of Christianity. And could we explore that a little bit, Rich? Because as somebody who was raised in the Jewish faith, I feel that coming to Brazil and getting to know Analytical Trilogy, even though it's scientific, it is not religious in any way, that I really got to rethink what true Christianity meant.
And that's what we experience through Dr. Keppe's work. I think it would be fantastic if we could explore that a little bit.
Cláudia: Yeah. I think that the first important aspect of this idea of Christmas is that we link through Analytical Trilogy, which is, by the way, the union between theology, philosophy, and science. So whatever we do in scientific terms, in philosophical terms, We have to also consider the theological terms, as Susan said, not linked to any religious institution, but absolutely linked to the Greek concept of theology, because theology comes from the Greek.
And they understood the study of the divine being as theology. And after Judaism and Christianity, this idea of institutionalized religion gained force. But in trilogy, we understand that the study of God is absolutely essential if you want to understand human beings. Because if we understand better and study better the nature of the supreme being, we will understand better the concepts of all other beings.
And this is Greek metaphysics. And there is where the true religions started in Greece. And they developed. And with the presence of the Son of God in the planet, of course, the religion got more strength and its influence was very, very big. Until last century, which was characterized by materialism and sensorialism and atheism. So, if we enter the subject of Christianity, of theology, Judaism even, we have always mixed feelings, pleasant and very unpleasant.
The pleasant ones have relation to God, and the unpleasant ones are related to human pathology, which belongs to human beings that developed religion in the planet. So if you feel something unpleasant when a religious person speaks, being a rabbi or a pastor or a priest or a nun or even an Hindu, spiritualist Hindu, so we feel something many times which is unpleasant.
We feel a kind of censorship, a kind of know-it-all attitude, of God-like attitude. So they think they confuse themselves with God when they say, when they speak. And they generally act as the righteous ones. And this is very much linked to theomania. The very source of Analytical Trilogy, and Dr. Kepes discovers of his own theory and method, The very beginning was when he discovered the attitude of theomania.
We are all suffering from this idea that we are godlike. We know it all. We are pride. We are the owners of the truth. We want life to be in accordance to our own egotistic wishes with our fantasies. So we have such difficulty in being a little bit humble and accepting our limitations, our errors, our negative feelings and attitudes. So this idea of being godlike is very much linked to the source of all pathologies.
And it's, of course, very unpleasant.
Richard: It is indeed. I was watching, well, this gets confusing. I was watching a stand-up comedian recently, Cláudia, and he was doing a lot of things about the problems in the world. And one of the things he was taking on was religion. And he was really slamming the idea of religion, the stupidity of religion. And I feel that this is a really big excuse to attack more than religion, right?
Because religion is, even Jesus, if we think about Jesus, Jesus never preached in the church, as I understand. No,
Cláudia: he did. He did.
Richard: He taught also the rabbis. Rabbis, yes, the Pharisees. But he is amongst the people. He was always with the 99%. Yes,
Cláudia: exactly.
Richard: And so if we're slamming religion, this misses the point that there was something very beautiful in what Jesus did that we need to pay attention to.
That I think, you were talking about the 99%, Cláudia, because this is the time of the 99%. It's the time for, because the 99%, before now, have been waiting for a solution to come from the state, from the company, from the boss, and even perhaps from religion, but they became disappointed with what had happened.
Richard: So this is the time where we, the people, must depend on our own strength.
We must go within and God's connection, the God that lives within us, that the temple within, the church within. And this work helps us do that. So
Cláudia: I thought this is a very special Christmas in that sense because it's the time for all peoples, all religions to go back to the Christ or whatever the Moses within or that God's, the connection. Or even Muhammad that had many, many right things to
teach.
Of course,
Cláudia: we can't forget Islam. I mean, billions of people are following that. Buddha, Confucius, that were very
much spiritual. Even if you're not religious, you have that inner guidance, that inner connection with God, and you need to find that. As of the 99%, to be able to now is the time to sustain yourself through that link with God. You will never do it through the link with the power, or through the link with, you
Cláudia: know...
With the theomaniac people. Exactly. The God-like people. Who think they're
Richard: God.
Cláudia: Because the
powerful took the place. And those people who are starving for power, they want to take the place of God in our lives, and then, of course, in their lives, but mostly in our lives, to be the rulers, dictating orders. But those orders are very much upside down in relation to God.
And this confusion is very much important to understand, because one of the unpleasant impressions we have from those God's representatives in churches is because they suffer from a severe inversion. They understand
Cláudia: that if we are following God, we are kind of in the wrong side, because we are in the side of suffering, restriction,
Richard: censorship,
Cláudia: pain, meekness, disease, and sacrifice. And that suffering is the way, is like the correct and the only way to be with God in the future.
I learned, as you said, Susan, I had a Catholic upbringing. And under this understanding of the philosophy of the Catholic Church, they understand that this life is like a very, it's like a pilgrimage. Only a pilgrimage, where you pass by and you choose if you are going to be in hell or in heaven when you die. But you cannot interact really with this world because this world is the world of the devil.
And so you just forget about this. And God is only after life. But the true understanding of Jesus' words doesn't mean this. He said that he brings to this life abundance of everything that is good, everything in abundance like happiness and goods and health and progress, if we would follow his words and his teachings. I
Richard: think this is beautiful, Cláudia, because if we think about the Occupy movement, everybody's trying to create a new society.
And what this would suggest, what you're saying is not that we need to achieve something new. We need to stop denying what Jesus has promised us we always had in the first place. Yes. We always had this beauty and we reject that. That's what we reject. And not understanding that, we want to try and create another reality somehow or a better thing.
And Jesus was saying, no, you have, everything is here now.
Cláudia: And you know how this was like giving more strength to the powerful, to the evil, demonic powerful. Because then they say, okay, so you go to heaven, and I have the world. So the world was left behind and was given to the hands of those powerful. So we don't question. This is not, people quote Jesus' words, this is not my reign, not my kingdom.
My kingdom is not from this planet or from this place. My kingdom is in heaven with Father. But he was very ironic when he said this. He said that the interest in power and money is not his business. That his business was being loving and doing good. Good action. Beautiful action. And doing for your fellow man what you want to be done to yourself.
So he has just one law. Love our Father in heaven above anything and your neighbor as yourself. This is just one rule. And this was never put in practice in the
Richard: world. And how the powerful took this religious misinterpretation that this world
Cláudia: doesn't exist for us, and they said, okay, you don't want the world? Yes. Thank you very much. Yes. We'll take it.
Yes, and this is what has been for centuries and millennia. And this world that they took over is divine. So they are usurpando. They have usurped
it for themselves. They have usurped it from God, from the children
Cláudia: of God. They have taken.
Richard: And subsequently from the people. Stolen, actually.
Cláudia: Yeah, stolen. Yeah, so it's time to recover, to rescue what belongs to us and have always belonged to us.
Richard: And if I could say, I think that's really the spirit of the 99%, that they haven't conscientized fully that. But it's that desire for a just world, a beautiful world, a perfect world, which is what's moving them, directly linked to Dr. Kempis' work. We'll take a break. We'll come back in a minute. And Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, we're back with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, my dear friend Susan Berkley, to talk more about the true meaning of Christmas in just a moment.
Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is our program. We are on the Conscious Planet Radio Network and streaming through iTunes.
What did you say in the little break? The birth of the Spirit of God.
Cláudia: Yeah, this might be the year of the birth of the Spirit of God, of Jesus. 2012.
Richard: Yeah. Not the end of the world at all.
Cláudia: Not the end. In the end of this world that Christ said it didn't belong to him. So you see what happens now in Christmas Eve and Christmas time. They are even thinking about taking away the name of Christmas tree. They are naming it a holiday tree. Holiday tree.
Richard: What a
Cláudia: decade.
Richard: Yeah, in the United States. Amazing. My clients said that they told me in their sessions that now they are using the name of holiday tree and they want to institute this name to take away the image of Christ.
And this
is the feast to commemorate his birth and has been for 2,000 years. And so those evil guys in power of the economic and financial power and the godlike beings, they absolutely don't want Christ's teachings because his teachings turn down their power, as the true Jewish teachings did with the prophets. All the time the prophets were saying that God one day would bring justice for the poor, for the widow, for the orphans, for the needy ones.
And so we have always been the 99 crushed by the demonic 1%. And this is very theological concept indeed and also scientific one. And social, I mean, sociologically speaking, also true. So we see that they took over, they robbed, they stole the concept, and they transformed this in their feast, the feast of trilateral, of those companies, of all the commercial people, the big companies.
They have their feast now instead of the birth of Jesus Christ. And normally people don't think about that because they enjoy having gifts. The people like having gifts. Of course. They enjoy having a party with a turkey and a good wine and champagne. But this is fair. This is fair. The lie in this is that all this has a reason, has a meaning if it comes to commemorate the message.
Cláudia: And a living God, which came and is and stayed in the spirit of those who want to follow his
Richard: teachings. So it's not to deprive ourselves of the festive part of it, but it's
Cláudia: to include the festive part in this. Now, let me tell you something. Now, bringing to the field of psychopathology. Normally, not only the powerful people spoil our Christmas, but we do this.
Pay attention. Christmas time, New Year's Eve is the time where families fight the most right? People get sick. People start fighting. Women get annoyed because their husbands did not give her the proper attention and she feels herself as a slave in the house and she doesn't want to sacrifice herself alone for the family and all those fightings. People
Richard: drink. Drink and
Cláudia: they get demonized and all this fighting.
Old family hurts
Richard: are brought forth. Oh, my God. And this hypocrisy. So this has very little to do with the
Cláudia: powerful. It has to do with our own psychopathology, which is?
Richard: Envy. Envy, right. We reject
Cláudia: what's beautiful. Our inversion that comes from envy. So we transform a beautiful time, which could be and should be so pleasant, so happy, in a hell. So many people are afraid when they think about Christmas coming.
They accuse each other, and we transform this in the devilish feast instead of loving feast. And this has to do with our pathology. So we
Richard: take something that exactly what we were saying a minute ago, that our problem is not that we don't have as our problem is that we deny what we have we reject. So we're here we are rejecting this beautiful message that comes at this time of the year.
Cláudia: Can you read this excerpt from this beautiful book that Dr Keppe wrote, Glorification, and it was meant to be published in New York City
Richard: in the year of 83 or 84, 83, I think, 82, 83. This book was meant to be published there. A publisher looked at this book. Yes, and he wanted to publish, to start with 5 million copies. And he said, this will be the spiritual orientation of the future.
And this is the spiritual orientation the world needs desperately. Our dear friend Will Lajeunesse, who's stuck away in the studio recording today. I'm sorry, Will, I wanted you to have a chance to speak about this. He was saying this book is touching him very deeply.
Cláudia: It's a love poem to God, I think it is, how we could describe it. Because, read in the cover.
Because
Richard: what? On the cover. Glorification by Norberto Arcepi. A more complete comprehension of the Creator, achieved through scientific experimentation, revealing the true God that institutionalized religion has hidden from us. There we are. That's fantastic, isn't it? And I know this is my personal experience. I have come to an understanding of my own spiritual nature through the science, not through religion. This is very clear to me.
If it had been left to religion, I would not be here today. Me too. It just alienated me completely from...
Cláudia: Me too.
Richard: All of us. So through science, we can have something theological. Dr. Quadi wanted me to read this paragraph here. It's always beautiful to read this book. So this is from Glorification. Quoting Dr. Keppe, We have simply reached an impasse. Was the world, this universe, created for the glory of God and his children?
Or for the enemies of truth, who take possession of everything they can just to satisfy their own sick pleasure? Where are the enlightened ones, whose life shines before all? Can it be that they are hiding under a table, leaving everything in the hands of the ill-intentioned? I believe that we have reached the time when we can no longer permit such inversion to remain in our lives, for we are not here to follow the sick minds of the evil persons who have taken possession of society.
We are here to participate in the glory of God and of those who love him. All of this was created for that purpose. Let us unite. Oh
my goodness,
Cláudia: this is like a convocation for the 99%. Yes,
and if you see, this book was written in the beginning of the 80s, like around 1980 or 81. So Keppe has always been this revolutionary to bring the
Richard: world back to humanity and
Cláudia: to God.
Against all powerful in all areas.
I mean, that chapter, if every person woke up in the morning and read that, you would be so excited about the day. You would have such a
Cláudia: feeling of, you know, motivation. And being an enlightened one
and acting
Cláudia: and imprendendo.
Accomplishing.
Cláudia: Accomplishing, realizing as an enlightened one.
Yeah.
Cláudia: It just gives you strength
and courage. The true enlightened have always belonged to the 99%.
Of course.
Richard: Not to the powerful. Yeah. I'm putting this on my Facebook page today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to spread that immediately. But look at that, because he said
Cláudia: just what you were saying. We can't leave everything in the hands of the ill-intentioned. If we just leave, if we don't pay attention to what you're talking about, they'll take it. They'll just, as they have
been doing.
They're there for that. They're there for that. What's so beautiful about the Trilogical Society and what we are doing with these productivist enterprises, because the idea is to create a community apart, still as a part, you were not like saying cloister yourself and go. Go into a
Richard: convent and escape or go
to the woods, but live in the world, but create your business, your living space, your communities, so that if the other falls apart, you still have your thing.
Well,
Richard: this is what you were saying in our program last time, that our communities need to work together to support, to do all the things for each other that we're now expecting the government and the powerful to do.
Cláudia: And I want to reinforce a concept that we have in our science. We understand that it's much more important to reinforce our immune system than to attack the symptoms of the disease.
And the same thing we do with the neurotic aspects and psychotic ones. Instead of fighting our neurotic and psychotic tendencies, we reinforce the healthy aspect of ourselves. So we reinforce our balance in a way that little by little the crazy attitudes, feelings, they fade away in the same way that the symptoms fade away when you reinforce your immune system, the psychogenetic or psychoenergetic power of our bodies.
So this is our focus, not to fight evil, but to reinforce the good. And so that's our intention, is to reinforce the power of the good individuals, good intention. So they will start building a tissue or an organism, healthy organism in society in such a way that little by little, the sick, the cancer of society, which are the powerful. They will fade away.
They will lose their power, their strength. And you know, if you probably have read all those conspiracy theories that most of them are right, they say they have a plan to eliminate 80% at least of the people. Because the people is or are the cancer in society. But the cancer is not the people. The cancer are the powerful.
Richard: There's enormous projection, Cláudia.
We see this everywhere. The people are always punished, always at
Cláudia: fault for what the powerful are doing. And this idea that they want to eliminate, this is very far advanced. And so when you're talking about reinforcing the goodness, this is beautiful. At the same time, recognizing the real corruption that's happening, we need to do both. And so we as people, the 99%, we need to build our own companies, create our own banks, create our own medical systems.
And learn how the powerful can manipulate us through our own psychopathology. Because if we want to become stronger in front of the powerful, we need to see this similar pathology we have in ourselves. We need to see the synchronicity, the agreements we have. We agree with many of the concepts they bring. So that is absolutely the major difficulty so far, that we were not able to overcome this major problem in the millennium and millennium, millenniums.
So if we do not understand our own theomania, our own inversion, our own idea that money is everything and not the good and truthful, beautiful work, that we do not value from what we have but from what we do. So we are what we do and not what we have. So many, many, many concepts must be better analyzed inside of each one of the 99 so they can become stronger in front of these lies that the powerful bring to them.
And they agree. For instance, the Occupy Wall Street movement, there are many there that they want the capital that Golden Sox have Rockfeller,
Rockefeller, Rothschild, Morgan, whatever. Where
Richard: is my piece? Because I deserve a piece of this. So thinking that if they are richer, if they have more money, they will be more happy. They can be even more unhappy because if they don't realize their envy and their inversion and their narcissism or the pathology.
So what is the money good for? So it's just the ruin of a person if they are upside down and they don't realize they are. This program really needs to go to everybody in the 99%. Susan, we need to do everything we can to get this program out to people because what you're talking about is so inspirational for people who want a just society.
And now we have the means to have it. You know, it's here. Communism didn't
Cláudia: work because of this. Because they wanted the capital from the capitalists. And then the capital went for the state. And then they kept fighting and fighting and killing each other because they wanted money. And they didn't want freedom to do what is good, beautiful, and truthful. They wanted just money.
Nobody lives out of money. Nobody eats money. No one is happy because of money. Nobody. But, of course, money can bring good things and good means to accomplish, to do what is good. We need capital. It's good to have a capital, but
Richard: in a reasonable way and deserving what we have. Can I finish with another paragraph?
Cláudia: Please do
Richard: that. I was just looking as you were speaking.
This kind of fits, too. Another paragraph from Dr. Keppe's wonderful book, Glorification, available, by the way, on our websites if you're interested. In the same way that society is formed in the image of man with all of his virtues and defects, everything that exists in the universe reflects the image of God. And it reflects it in such a way that any reference to the one has some relation to the other.
Therefore a clearer perception of the creator will afford us extraordinary comprehension of all creation and this comprehension will enable us to achieve unbelievable progress. This is the great value of revelation.
Cláudia: Yes. So he speaks about the traditional religious revelation, theological revelation, but he also considers science as a means of revelation. So through his science, he was able to understand a lot of things about God, much better than he used to, because of the scientific view.
An integral, transcendental science that was able to open the eyes. Even of himself, Dr. Keppe opened his eyes. Because you know something, God is within us, as Susan said. He would like to live in our inner selves. And we would become like small temples or not that small if we have God in us, with us. So we are not that small. We are enlightened, as Keppe said.
So God wants to live within us. This is what Jesus said, that God loved the most this kind of children that would worship him in truth and spirit, not in a temple. Also, evil one, the evil one, wants to take over our inner lives. And it has been doing this for a long time, dominating ourselves through our pathology and through the pathology of the powerful.
So imagine a science that went inside of the human being, looked inside and saw what is wrong there. And one of the biggest mistakes was that mankind split from God, got apart from God and our Creator because of envy, because of inversion, because of theomania. And if we see this, we can reconnect with God and the evil guys and the evil ones would lose.
Will become like open losers because the strength humanity will acquire with this relinking, reconnecting with God through the inner selves will be very powerful. The esoteric power will be tremendous. And this was only possible because of a psychoanalytical method that Keppe developed.
Richard: This is probably a very mundane example, but I want to try and put it into terms that are understandable for we who don't have the spiritual wisdom that you bring, Cláudia.
I was walking down the street today. I was thinking about this program as I was walking to a class. I was thinking, what do we want to talk about today in our program? I planned something else, and then I was thinking, no, we need to talk about the real meaning of what God and Jesus and what this is inside us. I was thinking that, and just as I was thinking that, a beautiful woman walked by with a tight dress.
And I felt myself wanting to turn and watch her walk by. And then I said, no, but continue thinking about what you're thinking about. So I found this is how we get caught, you know, through our pathologies.
Cláudia: Richard, you bring this burden of Christianity, don't you? Maybe. You put all the emphasis in sex. For central attraction. Imagine if you would not feel that for a
Richard: beautiful woman.
Yes. You could not be a man, a true man. Yes. So, the problem is not this one, Richard. It's deeper than that, eh?
Cláudia: My God. So, the problem is not instinct. A beautiful woman is a reflection of God. Yes. Beautiful women should be a big reflection of God because they come from God. So the problem is not finding a beautiful woman and feeling attracted to her.
Do not put so much emphasis in sexual censorship like
Richard: this. Yes, yes. I was thinking of it, though, in terms of like taking away from what I was... Okay,
Cláudia: like a distraction. Yeah. So you
Richard: may say that the devil uses God's things and beauties and words to deviate us from... Maybe this is my point more
Cláudia: deeply than... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Richard: Because I'm not going to stop looking at women.
They don't get that idea. This
Cláudia: is smaller than maybe what I was thinking about. But anyhow, it's important to remember that beautiful women and men, they are the reflection of God. Yeah. And when you see someone or something beautiful, it's a sensorial attraction that we have. Yeah. And this is not only physical. This is psychophysical, spiritual even. Yeah,
Richard: I think that's very true, because we can hear beautiful music or see beautiful clothes
Cláudia: and things, and this is very attractive.
And the devil
Richard: uses
Cláudia: God's beauty and the beauty of God's creatures for commerce to corrupt. So the misuse is what must
Richard: be seen. This is what I was feeling, I think, Cláudia, this sort of distraction from, you know, wow. Another but the word of
Cláudia: God one day when the 99 and take back our world we will have so many beautiful men and women.
My God we have to they like to get used to this
Richard: idea of being well-dressed and beautiful and attractive. Imagine
the world of God with ugly. So the religious they try to become very ugly. They forced them. They tried their beauty as if beauty was a sin. The women must wear wigs, only clothing that covers the entire body. The
Cláudia: men too. So this is not God's kingdom.
Richard: It's an exciting world we're anticipating in 2012. The birth of a divine kingdom emerging, brought by all well-intentioned individuals, resonating with the beautiful ideals we've been considering on our program today. Well, that's it for Thinking with Somebody Else's Head for 2011. All that's left is for me to wish you a deep and spiritual Christmas and pass on my hopes that 2012 continues this turning point for humanity.
All the best from all of us in Brazil to you listening across the planet. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Merry Christmas.
