Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We all of us have a reluctance to see our problems as the result of our own actions. The more serious the issue, the more creative we become in our explanations. To the point of absurdity at times. Years ago, a radio student of mine had a unique twist on the age-old excuse.
When I asked him why he'd handed his assignment in late, he said, "With all sincerity, my dog ate my contact lenses." Laughable and ridiculous obviously, but illustrative of what has become the typical attitude. "Hell is the other people," is how Sartre characterized it. And this lack of awareness is a serious problem in our world today. It's led to obese women suing their mothers as being responsible for their fatness, or one country so convinced the problem is out there that they drop bombs on others, or erect walls to keep the others out.
Seeing our own problems as caused by another makes us lose contact with our inner lives, meaning we alienate ourselves from wisdom and knowledge. Analytical Trilogy, the science of the human interior, today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are streaming on the Stop Radio Network, available through iTunes.
We also have Facebook pages and all that stuff for spreading our station around. So please do that. Help us spread it and get it around, please. After all, we're in 2012 now, and the combination of the numerous protests around the world, along with the numerous environmental, economic, political crises reaching ahead, should alert us that things are changing or need to change. And the scientific consciousness broadcast on our Stop Radio Network programs is essential if we're to affect meaningful change.
So please, spread our work. That's how we grow and how we can let more people know about Norberto Keppe's important science of psychosociopathology that gives us the knowledge of the roots of our problems. It's pretty hard to solve our problems, you know, if we don't have this science, and thank God we do now. Well, we have a full show today, so I want to jump right in with a special guest.
We've had actually a slew of guests joining us in Brazil this month. For all of our festivals and social projects. July is a winter holiday month down here, so we've been able to focus on those projects a little bit. One of our visitors is David Podanjgoas, a Hungarian engineer living in Switzerland, and fascinated with the Keppe motor. Susan Berkley and I spoke with him recently about his experience.
David, you've been enjoying your experience here with the Keppe motor.
Maybe it would be good to get your perspective on the Keppe motor and the potential it has, the power it has, to solve our energy and technology problems today. The background
is quite easy. In 2010, in September, Cesar George, together with Roberto Frascari, they made an introduction in Austria, in Bregenz, in September, and I attended this course. I already knew something about Kappa Motor, but very little.
Now, at this introduction, I got excited, really excited, and started to contact César and was seeking change and exchanging knowledge. And so I got excited with César and Roberto, so I had a male contact with Cláudia, and she urged me to come to Brazil. And after an additional introduction in December 2010 by Cesar in Luzern in Switzerland, I finally decided last year in August to come.
Then I set up a concept for introduction of the CAPE motor in Europe, especially for a very specific application which definitely could not be realized due to inappropriate partners in Germany and in Europe.
All right. So, David, let me ask you a question. So you're an engineer. I am an engineer. What is it about this technology that you found so interesting that made you come all the way to Brazil? What was different about this technology compared to the other free energy motors that you've studied? It's easy to answer. It does work. And all the other ones are promising a lot.
Richard: That sounds
so mundane. But you've looked at all the data and you've looked at the studies. No, no, no, not just. I looked at the principle. First of all, I looked at the principle. At the very first, I read again and again Dr. Kappa's book of the new physics, which was, I have to tell you, it was a revelation for me and not the book itself, not what Dr.
Cappi is writing and saying, because, to be frank, I didn't understand everything. But in the introduction, there was a Brazilian scientist.
The name is Salvatore de Salvo. He became to be the scientist of the year in 2001, yes. And he made a short description about what this insight of Dr. Cappi is all about. And in one point, which was a revelation for myself, it's what you stated, that the Maxwell equations had to have originally a scalar part of it, and it could be only solved by quadruple calculation of the mathematics, which is a very terrific calculation, and nobody could do this.
And just to be very short about it, what was so frightening and amazing for me, that we on the university, we learned, of course, every engineer learned the Maxwell equations. This is some kind of the base equation of the universe describing any power field or any potential field, magnetic or electric field, anything. But we didn't learn that the original Maxwell equation had to have a scalar part of it.
Included
Richard: scalar energy inside the formula. Of course, the formula itself.
But it couldn't be solved mathematically because of this very sophisticated quadrupole calculation which was needed to solve it. At this time, when Maxwell introduced it, 1920 around, or even earlier, it was not possible to solve this mathematical method. And then, in 1950 around, two American scientists, Heaviside and Gibbs, they became even the Nobel Prize for this achievement.
It was 1930 around. They just took the scalar part away of the equation. They just discarded, decided to discard the scalar part.
Richard: From the formula.
From the formula of Maxwell formula. And then it could be solved by so-called vector calculus. And that's what we learned on the universe in the early 60s, late 60s too, Maxwell equations without scalar, just a vector formula, which was simply cheating us and cheating millions and millions of scientists and angels throughout this world.
So the scalar part is the part that allows for energy coming from the universe, right? That Tesla, the great scientist Nikolai Tesla observed
Richard: that there is an energy that he called free energy. And of course, he tried to, he developed many devices to channel this energy,
which unfortunately were never allowed to be marketed and to benefit humanity. But this is part of this famous equation, right?
And Keppe has retaken this research, right? And allowing the development of a device that has the missing piece, the missing link. It's a shaming for us engineers that it must be a psychologist who has to reinvent for us engineers again the Maxwell equation.
Richard: But that's because he understood the principle of inversion, and that's why he was able to disinvert this idea.
And because he was really interested and not lazy like we engineers were.
Richard: Dava, why do you think these two scientists, Gibbs and... Heaviside and Gibbs. Heaviside and Gibbs, why do you think they wanted to remove this?
They didn't understand it, and they considered it as absolutely unnecessary and meaningless. And they wanted to solve this equation. And they solve because once you take
Richard: the essential energy out, it's easy to
solve mathematically with vector calculus. It's easily solvable, and just to explain it, and then all the succeeding research of mathematics and theoretical physics was introduced with a lot of hundreds of Nobel prizes, because the Maxwell Equation, without the scalar energy part, are not contagious.
They do not solve, they cannot describe the universe. With the scalar, including with the scalar, they can describe the universe.
Richard: How interesting. But removing that, Susan and David, removing
that.
Without telling, without telling. Without telling
Richard: what they were doing. This has serious implications because it removes from our technology the sort of transcendental part of science, doesn't it? Now
scientists have, because they are based on materialistic inspiration, they have to look for With billions and billions of dollars or euros in the CERN, in Geneva. Right, in that particle collider. Yes, this large, large Hadron particle, LGH, large Hadron collider is this.
And just to imagine what immense material means they have to do it. It's a circular tunnel, I think 120 meters below surface. Has a total length of 27 kilometers, and must be kept on a temperature of minus 270. It's nearly the absolute zero point, just three degrees higher than the absolute zero point. And it takes a month, even a year, to get this low temperature, and with a very huge magnet, the electromagnets which accelerate those particles.
Just to see with those amount, this 27 kilometer long tunnel at this low temperature, the amount of energy is needed for accelerate those particles for one minute would be sufficient to supply Geneva for a year. All energy, lightning, everything, everything, the whole city for a whole year for one minute. And it's just because it's based on the explanation of having everything material.
So they are looking for a material particle, which cannot be.
Richard: This is, I think, the wonderful thing of the Keppe motor. It's reintroducing us to what Tesla discovered, and maybe other scientists too, I don't know, of this transcendental component to the energy field, to nature, that there is energy coming from the transcendental part that has not been considered in our technology today, which is why our technology is so destructive.
Reintroducing this, again, makes our technology much healthier, right?
This causes the problems engineers and factories, we try to convince them to produce Kappa motors on large because "it cannot be explained and described with mathematical meanings of today. And just have to be proven by experience and by experiments empirically, absolutely empirically." And there are some other problems, which is just engineering problems, which has to be overcome.
But I really very highly accept and very highly regard the effort the capimotor engineers are doing. And by the way, to come over to my aim now, I have good friends in Switzerland, two engineers who are able to and dedicated and decided together with me to make a prototype, say, of the capper motor, just on the high efficiency capper motor, for being able to introduce and impress even professional electromotor factories, which we have already contacted.
So this is the way just to bring together the disinversion of the physics and the realization out of today's means which we have in engineering.
Richard: We are thinking with Heaviside in Gibbs' head, do you see? This is the challenge we have. Thanks very much for joining us. Wonderful to have you here. We are back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network to look at the science of the human interior.
Remember, it took Keppe's Analytical Trilogy in just a moment. Home to Thinking
with Somebody Else's Head, healing through consciousness, analyzing the 1%, and The Conscious Company.
This is Susan Berkley, host of The Conscious Company on the Stop Radio Network. Have you ever thought about starting your own business? If so, congratulations. It's exciting, it's challenging, it's liberating, and I believe ethically run, service-oriented small businesses, conscious companies as I call them, have the power to save our countries, no matter where you live.
But it isn't easy to go it alone. Over 20 years ago, Norberto Keppe pioneered the trilogical business model, and businesses who followed his leadership are thriving today. These days, there's mentoring, training programs, and resources to help you form employee-owned trilogical businesses, including the possibility of coming to Brazil for training and apprenticeship.
Norberto Keppe, and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world. This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are on the Stop Radio Network, and we have a veritable army of Americans with us today. Yes, and soon, and soon a Hungarian.
And soon a Hungarian, who is not, I guess Hungarians are not Americans, are they? What? From Hungary. I
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: know, of course, there are many Hungarians in America. Oh, there must be,
Richard: for sure. We have a South American, Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, three North Americans, me, our dear friend Susan Berkley from New York, who's visiting for another week or so, Bob Butler, who's been singing to all the students and making them happy here
for
Richard: the last couple of weeks, and we were talking before the show about sort of what we're going to talk about today.
And one of the ideas that came up in Cláudia's pre-comments to us were the idea that we are very exteriorized in our society today. And this is causing a lot of problems for us in understanding ourselves, right?
Cláudia: Yes, Richard. One of the most important pieces or aspects of Dr. Keppe's work is what he developed, the technique of interiorization, interiorization technique. So when we had to say this in English, it's like a new word, isn't it?
You didn't have it in the dictionary. I still don't know if you have it. But in France, they didn't have it either. But after we went there, they put it in La Rousse. Dictionary, yes. So interiorization, which is...
Richard: Interiorization.
Cláudia: It's not introversion. It's not introjection. It's a totally new concept that was brought by Keppe in his work of psychoanalysis. So in psychology, to interject is to bring inside aspects, values, ideals, whatever components, psychological components, bringing from outside to inside.
So I see in my father a good action or a good attitude, a good value, a good behavior, so I interject, I bring to myself something that is outside, or if I grew up in a in a bad neighborhood and then I adopted as valuable some criminal behaviors. I interjected something. Now you
Richard: take something and like inject, right? You stick it
Cláudia: inside yourself in some way.
And I can really integrate that thing in my being because through the RNA we can change our DNA. So we can change our beings. By
Richard: what we By what
Cláudia: we interject. Now, introversion is a word that Jung liked to speak a lot. Introverted and extroverted personalities. So there is even a test, a psychological test of intro-extroversion.
Richard: Myers-Briggs, I think, Cláudia, based on Jung's work, yes.
Cláudia: And then you will see that that person is more prone to be inside himself, like closed off and in his own feelings and emotions and thoughts, or if he pays more attention to the outer world, extroverted.
So there are some countries that are typically extroverted And other countries that are typically introverted, like Swedish people, they are typically introverted. And Americans in general, North and Southern Americans, they are extroverted, mostly. I'm not sure about Canadian people. A mixture.
Richard: A little bit more English. A bit more introverted maybe, yeah.
Cláudia: Now, interiorization is something different. It's the movement, the attitude of looking and living one's inner life.
It's the way we have access to our being, to our psychological, to our spiritual, which is the biggest and the most important part of our beings. Our bodies are like a small casket.
Richard: They're like a shell. They're along for the ride.
Cláudia: It's just a manifestation. It's the vibration of the soul inside time and space. So our bodies could be the vibration of our soul inside time and space.
And if we would not have fallen and caught inside time and space, even our bodies would be in a vibration that would be transcendental. So, the majority of important things are in this inner life. What do we have there? We have our intelligence, we have our intuition, we have our good emotions, the feelings, the perceptions. Everything we are is in this inner life, which Keppe also brought this concept of inner life.
Inner life doesn't mean unconscious, doesn't mean consciousness, doesn't mean intellect, doesn't mean the will, but it means all of this together and even more. So the inner life encompasses everything a being is. And our society, the habits of our society, they lead us not to have contact with our inner lives, as Keppe names it, our psychological inner life. So all our talents, all our richnesses, our enlightenment is in our inner lives.
What we really are, the core of the being, is in our inner self.
Richard: Yeah. I was talking to a student a little bit about this in a different way, Cláudia, about the difference between movement and vibration. We have this kind of exterior movement is all around
Cláudia: us, you know, this consuming and Internet and television, all these external activities. And extroverted. Yes. Sometimes people are introverted, but they are in this extroversion, in this externalization of attention.
They pay attention to the Internet. They pay attention in other people. They pay attention in nature, whatever, books, movies, whatever. But they pay attention to outer beings, to the other beings, to the other things, to the other external life. And this cripples human beings and makes us very sick without energy because we get our energy through our inner lives, through this inner core of the being, through the living of this, consciously living our inner lives.
So this is like an enigma. It's like a challenge. It's like a blank for many people. They don't know even that they have this kind of thing. What does
Richard: it mean? What are you talking
Cláudia: about? What is this? Inner life? What is this? And so some of the clients, when we spoke about inner lives, they spoke about homeostatics or the blood or the cells.
So they didn't know how to distinguish. But all of them have access. But it's been like a bad habit, a cultural attitude that people have this division. They are split. They don't live what they are. They don't live themselves. And by doing so, they get weak and they get sick, mentally and physically and socially.
Richard: Now, you're talking about interiorization as being the way into this inner life.
Could you give us an example of interiorization?
Cláudia: So then, here comes the challenge.
How can we have access to this inner life, now that we lost it? Through meditation? Through Zen Buddhism? Through reflection? Through arts? Through prayer? How? Keppe, in his work, in his scientific work, which encompasses theology, philosophy, and science, he got to a technique or a method which is extremely effective because people who are very much distant from who they are and don't know themselves, they need mirrors.
So the first person to apply the mirror technique, the mirroring technique, was Dr. Keppe a long, long time ago, around 40 years ago. So since he started with this technique, some people started also to apply this in a more shallow way. Look what your what your finger shows, it's your, it's like you point out
Richard: with one finger, yeah. So but this came
Cláudia: after Dr Capi's technique, and so how how does this work, uh, through the understanding of new physics, you can see that we resonate, we vibrate with things and people and values and objects and beings that are in the same level of vibration.
So you have the pendules, pendulum, pendulum, that you can observe in physics, you can see this, a a cord or a pendulum, if
Richard: you have a cord with pendulas hanging from it, the pendula that are at the same level, same length of string, they will, if you if you make put one in motion, the ones at the same level will resonate in motion at the same time, the others will not
Cláudia: be moved.
So we vibrate like a violin, we vibrate in different levels, in different um levels
Richard: of resonance,
Cláudia: yeah, different frequencies and levels of resonance. So everything that touches you, especially touches you in a good way or in a negative way, is resonating with you. So how to distinguish then what is inside of us looking outside, especially what disturbs us most, or what makes us happier, or what vibrates, what touches us innerly in some way.
So if a client comes in a session of analysis, they bring something that is disturbing them or something that is making them feel excited, passionate. So what we have to do is to not... And this technique must be studied because it's not like an easy formula. You have to, as an analyst, to have a training to know how to do this interiorization.
Because then you ask for free associations and then you use the Kapien dialectic to bring this to the inner life. So I'll give a very easy, very, very easy shallow example. Generally, wives, they come and they complain about their husbands. My husband is causing me...
Richard: I don't know. I've heard that before.
Cláudia: This is so common. So my husband did this, my husband did that.
He doesn't let me live my life in freedom. I can't be happy with him. And he is always contradicting me and forbidding me to do this or that.
So very simply, speaking here now, So we ask the lady, what does she associate her husband with? And she will probably say censorship, intransigence, intolerance.
Richard: Dictatorship.
Cláudia: Dictatorship sometimes, yes. Envy. And then we have to bring this to the inner life of the person. So what do you see through him? How your own intransigence, your own intolerance, your own envy hinders you from being fully what you could be and what you could do.
And this is very important because we are all plenty of pathologies. And our pathology is always a denial of our sanity. And this is something that we can come back in the next momentum, if you like.
Richard: I was dealing with this with students last night, Cláudia. A lot of students project into English all of... Their difficulty is seeing that the problem is the English and not the problems that they have in their lives in all sorts of areas, not just with learning languages.
So it's very powerful, this method of interiorization. It helps people a lot. We're on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. Bob Butler. Susan Berkley. And I'll be back in just a moment.
Back in 1986, Norberto Keppe wrote a book that predicted the worldwide economic crisis we're facing today. Liberation of the People critiques the pathology of power that lies at the base of our inverted social system and points the way out. This is essential reading for anyone wanting to find out how we got in such a mess and how we can get out.
Liberation of the People available in print or downloadable versions now at healing through consciousness.com.
This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe motor.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the stop radio network. Thinking with
Richard: Somebody Else's Head on the stop radio, and we have a new guest from switzerland.
Cláudia: Hello David.
Richard: Hello
everybody, I apologize myself for this very deep and seemingly very masculine voice. This is not a problem for us, I just got cold and but coming out um after some some initial session with Cláudia, I'm feeling much better, yeah.
Cláudia: So so that's what we are speaking about, about
interiorization technique. So this is a live
Cláudia: example of what happens when you are able to become conscious of your inner life. And this is what happens in the technique of interiorization. When you are able to see, oh, so this that I see outside is really inside of me. And it could be also outside and inside.
Some people don't understand. They say, but is this purely and merely a projection? Or am I speaking only about myself? Not necessarily. Not necessarily. But many times we confuse and we project onto other people our inner contents.
Richard: Could I use an example, Cláudia? My sister was here a number of years ago. And she was joining us in our hotel in Cambukira. And Sophie, one of our Swedish friends, invited her to go horseback riding, which my sister loves.
But my sister had troubles enjoying the horseback riding because she felt sorry for the horses.
Because the horses are not, you know, there are some horses that have difficult conditions, as the people are rather poor in that area. And so she was very identified with the poverty of the horse, the poor horse. How would we, because the situation is real. The horse was not as well
Cláudia: nourished as what she was used to. So how could we help her?
Could you maybe be in her place and do the associations? Sure. Okay. So I would ask her, what does she associate that horse, the horse she was riding with?
Richard: Right. What do you think she might say? She would say poverty, probably poverty, and something not being provided for them. She would feel sorry, pity. No, pity was her
Cláudia: feeling, not the horse.
Richard: Right.
Okay, so then
Cláudia: I would say the poverty, not being looked after, not being cared for well enough. Okay. So, and like horses in themselves, what does she associate with?
Richard: Freedom and opportunity for her to express power, grace.
Cláudia: Okay, so Richard, you putting this in your inner life, what do you see through this? That you don't take care properly, you don't feed, you don't give that importance to your good power, the inner grace, your freedom and the true use you can do of your freedom, so you are impoverished.
Richard: Yes, I'm impoverished in
Cláudia: those areas, in those areas you are impoverishing yourself.
So you are like poor horse that could be in your full strength of freedom and grace and power and good power, but you are not taking care properly of this. Exactly
Richard: true of my sister Cláudia, I could say that directly about my sister, my family in general, but my sister for sure, that there's all of this grace and beauty and power and dignity that's not being expressed as it
Cláudia: could, and sometimes even you
Richard: and some many times even me
Cláudia: and myself and Susan and David and Bob, because we don't use even 90 or 95 percent of our capacity, and this is because we are externalized, we are extroverted, we are looking everything outside, goodness coming from others and evil coming from others too, or external lives.
So we do we are really not aware that we have like such a power, energetic power inside of us, that can be harmful if we don't use it, and we can create, we can detonate our health, cancer, it's the same process as a an atom bomb. What an atom bomb causes in a human body is what we cause to ourselves in a negative energy energetic attitude, so we detonate our ourselves without acknowledging all the autoimmune diseases.
Yes, also exactly this, yes. So um when we are like interiorized, more interiorized, we get we have access to such an an amount of energy that comes from the Creator directly, that this can perform miracles. Miracles are performed like this. You see sometimes miracles being performed in churches or in our office, in our clinic. Miracles can be performed, not because of magic, but because for some reason that is normally not common in our lives, we have access, for a moment, for instance, to our...
Clarity, our...
Richard: This incredible, as David calls, enlightenment. Because people don't
Cláudia: want to be enlightened. Being enlightened means, at the same time, having or getting responsibility for our pathology, for what we don't do, for our omission, and seeing our upside-down, inverted attitude. It
Richard: also means that we have to accept to be enlightened. It's not
Cláudia: we who are doing the enlightenment. And to be in touch with Creator.
So the true spirituality of the future will have very little to do with institutional religions. The true spirituality will be this interiorization because this provides a direct link with the Creator. And the direct energetic food for us. So through this, we can enlarge our lives a lot, extend our lifespan a lot, because we will get energized properly.
Richard: Sure, and have a much more profound experience of life and love and all these things that you were
Cláudia: talking about.
Also about our influence in nature. Human beings have an enormous influence in nature, in trees and plants and animals and everything. So this is already more than proved by the more modern science, like radionics and radiestesia. We speak in Portuguese radionica and radiestesia. And paranormal studies.
Richard: So this process of interiorization you're talking about is directly opposite of what we see everywhere in the world today, almost everywhere in the world.
Maybe there are some cultures, as you said, that are
Cláudia: a little bit more in contact with internal values. But most of our world today is very much concerned about what's going on outside, right? "Yes, very much interested in sensorial lives, things and material things, and money, power, prestige. Prestige is something that is very much linked to materialism because you don't want to be prestigious because of your virtues or your talents or your good deeds, but because of what you have."
Yeah, or how you look. How you look, like narcissists. ...attitudes. And also sex and food and having things. So we are caught in this sensorialism or consumerism, which is one of the biggest pathologies ever, as Keppe says. Consumerism overcame other pathologies nowadays. It's larger than... Because it
Richard: detaches us from our inner lives. It's very pathological. We did a program on this where you talked with Dr.
Keppe about consumerism being worse than alcoholism, drug addiction, because
Cláudia: it creates this socioeconomic drama, everybody trying to compete to get more, and it caused a terrible decay in the spirituality of what it means to be human. So this is a serious problem. And it's seen as valuable, as reasonable, it's good for the economy of nations, and it's totally the opposite.
And the whole industry of advertising, which proves and implants in each human mind to consume what you not really need.
Cláudia: Yeah, and this started with, Susan, who started this?
Well, Bernays. Bernays. Edward Bernays was Freud's nephew. Yeah. And at the turn of the last century, he traded on Freud's name. He said, "I have this amazing psychological process by which we can influence and get people to buy and do our bidding that came from my uncle." And he helped to promote the war, the First World War.
He helped to introduce cigarettes to women. He was very diabolical because, for example, at the time, women didn't vote. So it was during the suffragette movement, and women would march. He organized a march of women down Fifth Avenue, the major street in New York City, dressed as the Statue of Liberty, smoking cigarettes.
Cláudia: To introduce the cigarettes.
Yes, to link the concept of liberty with cigarettes.
Cláudia: Which is right the opposite. Then you become a slave of the cigarettes.
Because
before that, women didn't smoke. So they were free of that. They were free. A lady didn't smoke, but not after Bernays got involved.
Cláudia: But he worked with whom in the United States?
Rockefeller.
Cláudia: Rockefeller and the presidents. So it became a philosophy, a policy of the nation that all Americans should consume. And this became a policy, a
national philosophy, a national value.
It's like being American means buying and consuming and being happy through the goods you can buy for yourself. They say the American consumer sustains our economy, and without them, the economy falls.
Cláudia: Yeah. So this is an inverted, an upside-down concept, because that's exactly what made United States be the country which has the biggest ever debt of any nation in the planet. So trillions of dollars they will never be able to pay back.
Richard: Not to mention how we destroyed the resources of the planet with this kind
Cláudia: of mentality. Yes. So this Rockefellerian attitude became American, like to be American means to follow Rockefeller's values. And these values are against human beings and nature and everything. So this disease took over most of the nations, even the communists. All nations became consumers, and consumer value or economy now is the present dictate of all nations.
Which is, to be exact, the deepest materialism you can ever consider.
Cláudia: Yes. So the planet got disenergized. Can I say this? De-energized.
De-energized.
Cláudia: So, the planet not only is consuming all the energy from the material life, oil, and all those fossil fuels, and it's depleting the planet. Not only this, but human beings got very weak. So you see so many people that are fat, that
Richard: are
Cláudia: obese, because they think energy will come from food.
And the less in contact they are with their inner lives, the less energy they will have. So they eat more. So a person who is obese is obese because he's lacking this inner contact, living the inner life where the energy, the true energy comes from.
Richard: Any kinds of these addictions are this, aren't they? The desire to get
Cláudia: on the outside something that's lacking.
The energy which is lacking from this inner source which is so important for us to be and to live. So the only chance, the only way for a humanity to be more balanced, to have a healthier life, more quality of life, to get back to development, to restart again, to recuperate, will be an enormous, a massive teaching of this inversion, that we should be in contact with our inner lives.
Even people knowing that they have an inner life, that they don't know.
What is this so there must be a a whole education a planetary education in this sense people who go to churches and they want to jump and go to like a through a priest through a pastor through a rabbi or through a um a ceremony external ceremony to get to god they would never get to god god is reachable in our inner lives only through our inner selves jesus said this he taught this two thousand years ago he spoke about this that you never reach god through external actions so maybe we are in um in a position in a situation where either we turn back to our inner lives and we have to be humble and to see our pathologies as well because we don't have only good things inside presently we have a lot of bad things and pathologies inside
Richard: that's part of the process
Cláudia: of interiorization yes and this is very humbling and but very satisfactory as as soon as we accept to be humbled or to humble ourselves then we feel an enormous satisfaction because at the same time we have access to the sanity we conscientize the obstacle we conscientize the door like envy arrogance stinginess narcissism narcissism whatever and materialism we become conscious of the obstacle and then it fades away and we go directly to our sanity so it's very much worth it and it's not something that we can cheat must be very honest because then otherwise we don't we cannot have access to this so that's why
some people have access and get healed and improve and feel better and some others they come and they do their sessions but they don't and they reject because they don't want to humble themselves enough or sufficiently "a
Richard: great man is always willing to be little" Ralph Waldo Emerson once said and it reminds me of what Norberto Keppe is always reminding us "To serve the world, we need to forget ourselves a little."
And herein lies perhaps our biggest challenge. We don't want to forget ourselves. We want to serve ourselves and have the world serve us too. But true wisdom comes from the humility to see our true selves and all our warts and put ourselves in action to help others. That's a big challenge. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're streaming on the Stop Radio Network. And it's wonderful to have you along with us. Bye-bye for now.
