Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Compromise. It's a word ripe for heated debate. A thing to be avoided, or a necessary evil. Better to bend than break, as the old Scottish proverb puts it. Compromise is supposedly what makes nations great and marriages happy. What people use to justify unconscionable bargaining techniques. But all too often, in business and international negotiations, as much as in relationships, Compromise means raising the thresholds of what we'll tolerate while lowering our expectations.
Not exactly a recipe for strength of character. And perhaps it's those value compromises, those times when we give in but shouldn't, that cause us the most pain as we look back. For sure, compromise could be a slippery slope. We develop the habit of giving away the store or fine-tune our manipulative techniques to Henry Kissinger-like finesse.
The great convert to theology, C.S. Lewis, discussed the gradual road to hell that I think can be the result of compromise. It's important to think harder and deeper about this. Compromising on love and truth today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're here on the Stop Radio Network to once again explore the application of Brazilian psychoanalyst Norberto Keppe's science of psychosociopathology that has provided so much soil for our verdant discussions held here over the past number of years.
We have going on to 200 Thinking with Somebody Else's Head shows in our archives now at HealingThroughConsciousness.com, and many of them we rotate throughout the day on our Stop Radio network, streaming through iTunes or directly at StopRadio.org. Keppe has discovered a universal phenomenon that occurs in all human beings called inversion that causes all of us to flip reality upside down and see good things as bad and bad things as good.
We'll look at that phenomenon in depth in our show today as related to those two fundamental human aspects of love and truth. So that is upcoming. I just got back from a week of deep discussions with Dr. Keppe about our Analytical Trilogy work here, and I'm feeling more than ever the profound desire for Keppe's breakthrough work to get out there more. There are so many answers to numerous societal problems contained in his work.
We were meeting regularly in our hotel retreat in the town of Cambuquita, about 350 kilometers from our base in São Paulo, where we're working on a number of social projects that are gaining considerable traction in the town. And the big announcement that came from there this time is the new production facility for Keppe Motor fans, which are now beginning to be assembled there.
The Keppe Motor was just highlighted at RioPlus20 as one of the ten ideas to save the planet, which is pretty exciting.
On top of saving 70 to 90 percent of energy costs, the Keppe Motor does something much more important. It proves that Einstein's E equals MC squared formula is wrong. Actually, most of us have no idea what that theory means anyway in day-to-day life. But in essence, Einstein equated energy with matter. The bottom line being that if you don't have any material in Einstein's formula, you don't have any energy.
The Keppe motor proves the incorrectness of that and introduces a new technological philosophy to the planet. It means that we can begin to contemplate a truly sustainable and environmentally friendly technology for the first time. Rather than just spinning nuclear energy as the answer to environmental issues as the psychotic lobbyists are trying to do now. Man, if you want to talk about dark compromise, you don't have to go much further than the discussions touting nuclear energy as a solution to global warming issues.
This inversion of getting energy from material has led us to this level of insanity that now packages nuclear power with its highly toxic waste products as green technology. The Keppe motor resolves all of that, and it's very exciting technology. Please stay tuned to our programs and our websites for more updated information on that. It's pretty new and pretty exciting. All of this inversion, of course, happens in many areas, like promoting toxic pesticide-rich modern farming and GMOs as more efficient than natural methods.
Another complete crock that depends on our unconsciousness and ignorance to gain a foothold in society. We're proving that claim totally false in our community gardening experience in Cambuquita and we'll continue to show the ludicrousness of these Monsanto and others' claims for efficiency as we develop our work here in Brazil.
These inversions, both socially and politically, are becoming very, very clear to understand and it's only through Keppe's Science of Analytical Trilogy that we can really begin to understand how all that works, which is why I think our programs are of such value. And please, pass them on to people that you know would be interested in the work that we're doing. The more sort of vibration there is, resonance there is with the work we're doing, the more our society has chances to change.
Because it's only through unconsciousness that it continues on the way it is in this destructive fashion that we see on our planet today. Well, when we return, let's look at how all this compromising of love and truth has damaged the human being and society. That's when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns on the Stop Radio Network.
Thank you for
listening to the most relevant conversations in the world about stopping the destruction of ourselves and the planet.
Richard: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. You know, there are many ways to dig deeper into the themes we discuss in our Stop Radio Network programs. There are books and TV and radio programs, conferences, teleclasses. But what about this one?
Learning a language. That's kind of wild, isn't it? Millennium Language School in São Paulo, where I teach, incidentally, offers eight language courses using Norberto Keppe's psycholinguistic method. Yeah, we use his vast literature and scientific findings to make it easier for anyone to learn a language. It would be a great time to tackle Portuguese, actually, with Brazil quickly becoming a prime world destination.
And you can learn online from wherever you are.
So drop us a line if you'd like to learn more.
We're teaching life in eight languages. We are
part of an exciting initiative here in Brazil that includes leading-edge psychological sessions available by phone or Skype worldwide, top-level translation services in a vast number of languages, online and classroom language classes using a proven psycholinguistic method and highly trained teachers that help you learn faster and easier, and an innovative social project that offers multiple opportunities for you to participate and learn so you can apply these initiatives in your communities worldwide.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Graham is
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. My name is Richard Lloyd Jones, and Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is with us again today. Hello.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Hello, dear Jones. Hello, dear guests, radio guests.
Richard: Nice to have you back in the studio. I was watching a film on the weekend. It's a movie written and directed by Ben Affleck, who's one of these young Hollywood actors.
And it's a movie about Boston, the city of Boston, a particular part of Boston. I forget the name of the town. They call it the town in Boston where apparently more bank robbers
Cláudia: have
Richard: come from this area than
Cláudia: any other
Richard: area of the United States. A lot of Irish immigrants there, and apparently there's been a lot of history of kind of bank robbing there.
But that's not what was interesting about the film. And what was interesting was the young Ben Affleck plays one of these young criminals who's an expert at robbing banks.
And they rob the bank pretty violently. They don't necessarily kill people, but they've got guns and they're pretty violent. But he falls in love with one of the people who was in the bank that they robbed. They take this girl hostage and then he starts to check up on her, make sure that she doesn't know too much about them to tell the FBI and stuff.
And he ends up falling in love. And she, of course, falls in love, too. And I was struck, Cláudia, in all of this by the naivety about psychopathology. The idea being that a guy who's become like a criminal, acting in a criminally violent way, could suddenly become somebody that has a good side. You know, they have this dialectic all the time in these movies that the bad guy really can be a good guy.
The same thing with Hannibal Lecter in all of these films where he's like a psychopath, but he loves the girl.
...and he prefers to cut his own hand off rather than hurt her. But you
Cláudia: know, these things are real. Yes. Yes. This is a reality.
Richard: That it can be both.
Cláudia: Of course. And because, you know, Richard, pathology is distortion, is the omission or the misrepresentation of the true reality of the being. So every human being, even though they are psychopaths or they are criminals, they have deep down beneath this artificial pathological attitude, they have sanity, a lot of sanity.
And sometimes they can manifest the sanity strongly towards a person that they are not like, they don't have feelings of persecution. They don't feel threatened. And so they can and they do manifest sometimes a very deep, beautiful side of their personalities. This is a true story. This can
Richard: be a true story. Very interesting. Yeah. So it's not so crazy then that a woman would, she would see that part of him rather than the criminal.
Cláudia: Yeah. The problem is that women in general, they think they are going to... Save
Richard: the guy, right? Yeah,
Cláudia: to reform the guy, to make him be the way he is with her all the time with everybody. So this is another thing. They play with fire because if the sickness is too serious, too deep, and too installed for so many years in a person, it's very difficult to get back.
And some psychoanalysts, they had this experience, this sad experience with their clients because when the client has a good transference with the psychoanalyst, sometimes they have and they trust. So they become very, very much linked and dependent on the analyst, but they can shift and project onto that analyst the danger they have inside of themselves, and they kill them.
Richard: Thinking that the psychoanalyst is a danger to them.
Cláudia: And the psychoanalyst has betrayed them, that they lied to them, that they were not sincere.
And so when this projection of the pathology starts, then the situation can become very dangerous. But this doesn't mean that those sick people, and when we speak about criminals, We also speak about them as being sick in our integral psychoanalysis. So the sick people, they can and they do have honest, authentic and sincere feelings in themselves. The problem is they don't trust these feelings
Richard: they have.
Yeah, they think that somehow it's better to be kind of criminal.
Cláudia: But you know, Jones, you know, Jones, This is not something only that belongs to the psychopaths and the psychotic. Disinversion, as I was remembering this morning, it seems that we are very close to the birth of a new civilization, like a disinverted civilization. We have to, otherwise we will extinguish life on the planet.
And this new civilization should be a situation where human beings would be able to manifest and to flourish their deepest talents and gifts, like love, reason and intellect, knowledge, true knowledge, and accomplishment, the good accomplishments.
You know, today, Richard, in our society, we deny this because we are upside down, all of us. We see love as some kind of weakness, and it can hurt. So people prefer to get rid of these feelings and the people that remind them about these feelings. So many psychotic, they kill their parents, mother, father, sometimes their children, sometimes, many times, their spouses or girlfriends, boyfriends.
I love it, yeah. It's very
Richard: frequent. They call it passionate
Cláudia: kind of crime, right? And this comes from this inversion that all of us have. We associate love with suffering, sacrifice, and weakness. Being
Richard: exposed to some danger. Yeah. This is not necessarily, because if you ask people, you know, what do you think about love? People say, oh, love is fantastic.
Cláudia: Theoretically.
Richard: Yeah, theoretically, yes.
But you're talking about it at a deeper level.
You know, this is something I think we don't see. I noticed this in the movie too. There was this constant thing. The bad guy, the bad guy, the criminal would do something bad and then he would say to the girl all the time I'm sorry. As if saying
I'm sorry covers up the fact. And so what I felt in this film was this a real misunderstanding or lack of understanding of what is psychopathology.
I'm sorry means you didn't mean to do it, but we do mean to do it. We have these beliefs. So this idea you're talking about now about the rejection of love, we see this all the time. People who don't want to make a commitment. People who are, they're in one relationship but they're in six other relationships at the same time. Or people who are in the relationship but they're always fighting with the other person.
So we see all the time the manifestations of what you're talking about, but we don't understand that it's
Richard: this deeper thing that you're bringing now, that we have a resistance or rejection of, of feelings of love.
Cláudia: Yeah, and then we also reject truth. So our intellectual life is very much compromised with all these false concepts, inverted concepts, false ideas, false theories, false thoughts that are based on negative emotions. Like for instance, if you, if you envy a person, all the ideas you're going to have about that person will be wrong, will be distorted, will be not true. So this is very frequent in our minds.
Our system of thought is very uh harmed, is very much, yeah,
Richard: it's weakened, it's disturbed,
Cláudia: disturbed by these negative emotions that are not conscious and and controlled by us. So normally we reject, strongly reject to speak the truth. Because we see in lying something good. You know that Gerald Dallison from the University of South Carolina did a research on this. And he got to the conclusion that every average human being says 200 lies per day.
Wow. Per day. This is what a person hears, reads, speaks, 200 lies per day. Accepts in some way. Yeah. And under his understanding, from his understanding, this is necessary. Because lying is something that... Yeah, it
Richard: ameliorates the situation. It's socially necessary.
Cláudia: It pacifies you. It pacifies, like a pacifier in society.
Richard: It's socially necessary,
Cláudia: he thinks, right? Yeah, and that if
Richard: everybody would be only truthful and without lying, life would be a hell, he says.
There's an inversion.
Cláudia: Yeah, why life is a hell now? Because nobody accepts the truth. So people kill each other, people rob each other, People do so many horrible things because they don't accept the truth. And Otto von Bismarck, you know, Bismarck. Sure. Yeah. So he used to say that the people never lie so much as when they go hunting during a war and before an election.
Yeah.
Richard: I don't know if it was Bismarck, but somebody said the first casualty of war is the truth, right? So the moment you have to create a war, you're avoiding truth.
Cláudia: And we get to the third point here, which I said, that is accomplishment. So I spoke about feeling. I spoke about reason, feeling of love, reason and truth. And then the good accomplishments, the good actions.
And everybody rejects to do good actions because we see work in itself as a burden, as tiresome, as a problem. So people avoid work as much as possible, even more working for the good of others. You
Richard: know, this is a very... Very much part of what I have had to face being here in Brazil, you know, I come from a culture where we are taught, it's inside the culture, inside me too, that we have to look out for ourselves, you know, so the idea of doing something like consciously good for society, like dedicating a life to doing something good for society, never entered my mind.
It was not something I even considered as the possibility. Everything that we learned was about create your career, your life, have your thing, do your thing. If you happen to be, I worked in media, so I was hopefully contributing in some way to the benefit of society. But that was not a, that was like a consequence of having to work in radio.
It wasn't a conscious thought in my mind. It didn't even enter my mind, Cláudia. Everybody speaks rationally about
Cláudia: the good of doing good. But nobody, nobody believes that you are going to do something good without any hidden interest or hidden intention. And this is a big trouble because if you want to be good, wherever you go, everybody will be suspicious. What do you want?
What is really behind your facade, your hypocrisy? What are the real intentions of what you are proposing, the good that you claim you are doing and wanted to do?
Because the majority of people do this, and saints, true saints, are very rare, are very few. This doesn't mean that this thing in itself should not be followed, because everybody thinks, well, you must have something behind what you do. Like in Kambukira, where we have our project, we have a percentage of the people that are fully involved and engaged and they are having benefits, they are progressing.
But there is a group that is totally against the good that this group is doing in Kambukira, in our project. And they try to prove in some way that this group is not what they claim they are, that these people that come to Kambukira to do the good for these less privileged people in Kambukira, that they hide something behind. They want to steal their water, their mineral water, or they want to enslave them, or they want political power.
And they try to find out something, but they never find. But they still search for something that is where? Where is this thing that they are searching for?
Richard: It's inside them, right?
Cláudia: Inside
Richard: themselves, really. They are projecting onto
Cláudia: the group of stop the ill intentions they have
Richard: against the people in town and against themselves. They're projecting onto the association of the people who are helping.
They're projecting onto them their own bad intentions against the people.
Cláudia: And when people ask, Keppe, why did you come to the United States? Why did you do this? Why did you do that? You know what he says recently? Look into the Bible. Have you read the Bible? Have you read the Gospel? It's everything there. It's everything there. Why do we need to do good?
Richard: Let's come back and talk more about this because it's really an interesting topic.
And I have a couple of examples. I want to use as a way of illustrating what Cláudia's talking about. We're back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
The leading-edge thought emerging from the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in Brazil provides many solutions to our pressing world problems.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. You're
listening to the most relevant conversations on the planet about how to stop destroying ourselves and the world.
Richard: This is Richard Lloyd Jones. It's a globalized world today. Publish something on virtually any social network and it could go viral in minutes. This makes it very exciting for our Stop Radio Network, of course, because now we're not limited to 50,000 watts and terrestrial radio coverage. Our programs are heard in more than 100 countries. If you're looking to reach customers, suppliers, even new employees more effectively, you need that global presence too.
That means globalization services like internationalization, localization, interpretation, translation, cultural consulting, and multilingual development. All of that is what we do at Millennium Translations. We're a worldwide distributor of translation and localization services, and we work in a huge variety of languages. We're also part of the Millennium Group of Trilogical Enterprises, so check us out on the web, etranslate.com.br.
Millennium Translations, we help you operate more effectively around the world.
Norberto Keppe, and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world. This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network and a very interesting discussion, I think, about the psychological life today.
And I was thinking as you were speaking, Cláudia, about a couple of things. I remember when Mother Teresa was a real force in the world in terms of doing good because you're talking about good action. And there was this woman who was giving whatever she could to the poorest people on the planet, some of the poorest people on the planet in India.
And people, she says one time, you know, some people wouldn't do this for a million dollars. And she said, I wouldn't do it for a million dollars either. I do it because of love. And she was attacked. There was one journalist who attacked her relentlessly. His name was Christopher Hitchens. He died, interestingly enough, recently of cancer as a young man. And he was vehement against her about what's behind her.
She's not the saint she appears to be. All the things that you're saying is happening sometimes with small groups that attack the work that we're doing in the town of Cambuquita.
So this uh and you, you have a chapter in your book Women on the Couch called Paranoia Towards Affection that illustrates this. What is that? What what's what's going on here? This um this uh inability or this unwillingness to see the goodness in other. You at the end of our last segment you were talking about how this is a projection, but can you expand on that
Cláudia: a little bit?
Well, this is the biggest inversion ever of humanity. People are very much afraid of being good and feeling love, feeling the feelings of love they have inside, because when you feel love, Richard, and when you are good, you need to see your pathologies, your ill intentions. And in some sense this humility brings a feeling of weakness. You don't see yourself as much powerful as you used to be.
And the arrogance is washed away. Like, you cannot be arrogant and be humble at the same time, and be arrogant and be good, be arrogant in love.
And give to others. So, here we come to what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount, yeah. So, the arrogant will be humiliated, and the weak and the humble will be exalted. In saying that those who feel love and accept to see their sins, their problems, they can have the strength and the power of God manifested in themselves.
And I speak about, in psychological terms, I'm speaking about the power and the energy of consciousness. If you don't want to speak about God because you are allergic to those terms, you got allergic to those religious terms, you at least understand that there is a basic essential energy which is very much linked to the feelings of love, to humility, to reality, to everything that is good, beautiful and truthful.
So there is this energy. This is tangible, this is real.
And when we deny this, we become sick, weak, less powerful in terms of accomplishments, understanding, more ignorant. So it's not advantageous to deny this. Lose intelligence. And you can see the arrogant people being upside down, how they become stupid, sick, alone. Lonely, because nobody wants to be with them. They are not trusted. So everything that they can have is just some money, or big money, or material things, but they can't even enjoy what they have.
Richard: I had a friend ask me recently, "but what are you doing down there? You know, like, what are you doing with this group? You know, you could be a number one voiceover person. What are you doing down there?" And I said, "but why don't you ask me this question? Richard, what was it down there that so intrigued you that you gave up what you had there to come here?"
I said, "why don't you ask me that question?
Cláudia: But, Richard, now you are the number one in many, many things. Sure, of course. You are the number one in this podcast, this beautiful podcast. Yes, of course. Many, many thousands and millions of people here admire what you do. Of course. And much more than you could reach in what you did.
Richard: And now you are the number one of the Millennium Schools of Languages here, and you are well-known all over São Paulo, which has how many inhabitants?
20 million. 20 million inhabitants. So you are known all over. You are much more known doing this work now, internationally known, than you would have ever been being a voiceover in Canada." Totally right. My God. Totally right. Come on. A
Cláudia: voiceover for what?
For Procter &
Richard: Gamble?
What?
Richard: Exactly. So when you
were speaking about this robbery, so the robbers of a bank, robber, robber, robbers.
Richard: The bank robbers.
They are robbers, robbering robbers.
Richard: They're stealing from the criminals. It's very funny.
Cláudia: But I have a list
Richard: here. Okay, good.
Cláudia: Of some examples of how average human beings can be bad, bad guys, bad people, without being even really conscious of that. So let's speak a little bit about our ill intentions. Good. Great. So some of these, speaking about not telling the truth, and so have you noticed that many times amongst friends, amongst family members, and very frequently amongst spouses, they nourish feelings of vengeance?
Mm-hmm. Have you
Richard: noticed that? Sure. They remember things that happened 1,500 years ago. And sometimes
Cláudia: they know even that the other one is betraying them or they are not being loyal. And they keep following that and nourishing evil intentions of vendetta.
Richard: Yeah, vendetta, sure.
Cláudia: Waiting for the opportunity to get back. Do you mean in this sense? Yes, yes. And if women do this a lot,
Richard: when they are jealous, and
Cláudia: sometimes they cannot prove that their spouses are betraying them. But they say, wait and see, what am I going to do? And they go out with other men just to hurt the other guy that sometimes don't even know what happened.
They
Richard: will never know. I'm going to screw you before you screw me.
Cláudia: Yeah. So these are a manifestation of this real bad side of the human beings. And they think this is fair, this is a fair game. But this is nourishing feelings of vengeance. This is very common amongst family members. When you speak about properties, inheritance, and what did
Richard: you
Cláudia: get from my father?
You were more protected. You got this. You got that. So this is all evil, evil inside families. And this is so common.
Richard: My brother and I used to say, wait a minute. He's got a bigger piece of pie than I do. Yeah. So
Cláudia: it's always a bad and negative thought coming to the mind. And this is sickness. And this is evil. And this creates illnesses. So people normally don't see this. They don't pay attention. Not to mention. They
Richard: think, oh, this is so common.
Oh, come on. Nobody knows. I'm not hurting anybody. This is common. This is everyday life. This
Cláudia: is very normal. But it's not normal. This brings sicknesses.
Richard: And it creates an energetic environment that's just horrible. Yeah. Now... Another one. Okay, good. Another one. Intrigues. I love your list, by the way. Intrigues. Intrigues. Ah, yes. Creating a
Cláudia: scheming behind the bag. So you can intrigue a lot.
And intriguing is not only speaking lies.
Richard: Yeah, but this is a different word in English, because intriguing in English is interesting.
So
Cláudia: you're talking about scheming, like making little plans. When you speak things with a purpose to destroy the image of the other person, and the good, and the beauty, or whatever, whatever good you see in another person, then you take the opportunity or you use excuses that everybody has negative things to be, like errors, mistakes. Everybody has, but they take advantage from this in order to destroy what is good and what they envy in that other person.
How interesting. Yes. This is very common. So mothers, they come on, and they call their children, and they say, now I'm going to speak the truth about your father. So they destroy all the future of those kids when they want to speak
Richard: the truth about their father, what
Cláudia: they did for the family, what they didn't do, what was missing, or what they did against her.
So all this evil net of bad thoughts and bad and negative feelings that are around a person in order to destroy the image and the love that others can have for that person. Right.
Richard: A viper's nest.
Cláudia: So this is so common, Richard. This doesn't belong to psychotic only. The psychotic are more, they have a more severe envy. So they do this more.
But everyday life, this is our everyday life, unfortunately. Destroying families, destroying friendships, destroying companies, destroying nations.
Richard: We see this a lot in Shakespeare talks. Othello is all about this. Iago creating this sort of story against his wife. So I
Cláudia: have a larger list that I can bring next time. And there are so many common things. That
Richard: we do and your point here is very important because we we um we are, this is what we do, that is a form of evil.
And this comes up a lot, that we then we want to criticize what's going on outside in order not to see what's going on inside, because we want to criticize the evil that we see on the outside in order not to see our own.
This came up in one of our group analysis and you spoke about movies. Yeah,
Cláudia: so here is, you can find another example. People sometimes they enjoy seeing movies that speak about terror, evil, crimes, but they enjoy seeing that not in order to see how the how life is, how human beings are, and to do like a study, social study, because movies can be a social study.
But they enjoy, they get involved, they like, they live inside that movie in such a way that you can see people being like cut this, like in pieces and blood, and because they enjoy that. And this is really a manifestation, a resonance that is inside every person who does this. Like a very sick, very sick, evil attitude that sometimes people that have an innocent life, like no crimes, they look so good.
But inside of
Richard: themselves,
Cláudia: there's this criminal living inside.
And if they don't see, everything that is repressed will
Richard: manifest. Augustine said that he could see the behavior of the worst criminal inside himself. This was a man who had a bit more integrity than most of us.
Cláudia: And if you are integral, and if you are good, you have to see this. And this is the price we need to pay, to be honest.
Richard: Robert Louis Stevenson wrote, "We're all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend." But perhaps it's the being honest with ourselves that's the bigger challenge. And going deep to find that honesty, to see all our dishonesty, That's the price we pay that Cláudia is talking about. "Honesty is the first chapter of the book of wisdom," is how Jefferson put it.
I love how we explore these issues every week on our program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
We're back next time on the Stop Radio Network. Bye for now.
