Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Any who've listened to this program for any length of time will know that I'm not much for relativity, as in relative truth. Although that's a new stance for me, picked up over my 11 years of work at Norberto Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy in Brazil. I have my truth and you have yours.
Is a pretty common point of view from the New Age movement, which seeks validation from the proposals of quantum physics, that there's an unlimited offering of possibilities before us, and it's our choice that determines which one becomes reality. It's an enticing idea. I'm a co-creator of the universe and therefore essential to its evolution. Except that this idea disappears in the spotlight of Keppian metaphysics that proclaims that we are complete beings, not becomings at all, that we are, not that we are on the way.
This holds true for society as well. Society has an essential and perfect nature that we have degraded considerably. But now we have a science to help us return to the natural state. Healthy Communities and Society's Immune System. Today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Our program is proudly part of the Stop Radio Network, and we're available in like a billion ways on the Internet, I think.
We publish as a podcast, available anywhere fine podcasts are found. Including through iTunes podcasts. It's the Thinking with Somebody Else's Head podcast you'll find there. We have a blog, if you prefer that way, somebodyelseshead.wordpress.com. And you'll see our individual programs on our Thinking with Somebody Else's Head Facebook page every time we publish, so join us there too. And, of course, our Healing Through Consciousness site keeps pretty up-to-date with our latest shows.
As a podcast, we've been downloaded over 460,000 times now, so that's a lot of bandwidth that's been used up all over the past six years. But our new stop radio network is our online radio station, and this is very cool technology that has become available lately. We produce a broadcast stream featuring our programs, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and Healing Through Consciousness, along with Gilbert Gambucci's Analyzing the 1%, Susan Berkley's Conscious Company, and a new program on relationships coming up soon from Monene Daily Heart and Bob Butler.
This radio network streams 24-7 through iTunes radio stations and is now available to your smartphone or tablet through the free TuneIn app. I had it playing on my iPhone with a USB outlet to my car radio recently, and that was pretty, pretty cool, let me tell you.
Well, I've been a social justice advocate for most of my adult life, so our topic today hits my hot buttons.
From the first time I started in radio, way back in the 1970s, I had this idea that media was an important part of any social revolution. Of course, I saw along the way that big media got its rocks off from dollars, not uplifting society, and that meant a large degree of pandering to the voyeur and the controversy and the lowest common denominator all too often.
So I've been pretty thrilled at the confluence of discovering Norberto Keppe's Institute in Brazil, where I study and teach, and the possibility of producing my own content on the Internet, where I'm not obligated to fulfill sponsor expectations or play the most requested song. In Keppe's work, I've found a lot of answers to questions that have arisen over the years about why we seem to be deteriorating in society, despite the algorithmic surge in environmental and social justice organizations.
Our social structure is inverted, Keppe says, although his discoveries and practical applications give us a way to resolve all that. It's immoral, for instance, to work only for the purposes of making someone else or yourself rich. And we have some answers to that through our Trilogical enterprise business model, which brings tremendous collective wealth and satisfaction and accomplishment in all senses of those terms, while strengthening the individual so they contribute productively to a healthy society.
This is a very exciting development down here. It's also immoral to have more money than you can use, and that makes the Forbes list an obscene document. A person who has more than he can use is taking away from those who have insufficient means, and this social injustice is one of the principal causes of violence and crime and perhaps even terrorism. We have ways to treat that by controlling the pathology of power and making sure the sickly, voracious, and aggressively competitive are made conscious of their imbalance so they can correct it.
And since it's also immoral to manufacture weapons, we can offer some keen observations on the insane economies like the United States economy, where they spend absurd percentages of tax dollars on military build-up. And as we address these sadistic industries and restore more social justice, individuals will feel a decreased need to arm themselves as well. And we can even say from a Kepien perspective that engaging in any activity that causes harm to nature is also immoral.
So it's not that all these issues need to be addressed from an evolutionary point of view, meaning we don't need to slowly legislate and prosecute and debate and whittle them away one by one. No, we need to see from a metaphysical view that they're all incorrect, have always been incorrect, and always will be. And we need to embark on the discussion from that point of view.
What we're offering in our work, Norberto Keppe's work and our work on this radio show, is to all worthy people, of which there are millions around the world, people who are being kept from developing. We want to make an offering to you. We now have an opportunity, one more effort, and this is going to succeed. It has to succeed or we destroy the planet.
By disinverting society, we'll make it into a society in which everyone can enjoy all that was created for humankind as a whole, all that only a few so far have used for their own benefit. Let's work on that together. Our program today offers us a chance to explore that very, very deeply, and I'm excited about our program today.
All that when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns on the Stop Radio Network. You're
listening to the most relevant conversations on the planet about how to stop destroying ourselves and the world.
Richard: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, host of Thinking with Somebody Else's Head here on the Stop Radio Network. You know, I receive emails all the time from people who resonate with our shows and the science behind them, called the Science of Analytical Trilogy.
People like Trilogy's perspective on economics and health and energy, how Trilogy's psychological perspective goes to the root causes of human problems. But sometimes people ask me, but what can I do about all this? How can I help to contribute to the greater consciousness on the planet? I tell them the same thing. Our trilogical books and TV shows are a rich source of knowledge that you need if you want to be an effective change agent today.
There's dozens of our Stop TV programs there, too. So you can read, watch, pass the info on to your networks, and let's see if together we can restore human society to its correct state.
That's your site for the science of the 21st century.
You are
Richard: listening to the Stop Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones, Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, Will Lajeunesse, a rare appearance from the other Canadian here today, which is very nice, on our program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. And today is kind of an exciting day because it is the first day, what's called FIMI here in São Paulo. It's one of the world's largest trade shows on sustainability, and the Keppe motor is going to be there.
Cláudia, I think about this a lot, and I talk with my students about this a lot, how to explain the impact, the importance of the Keppe motor. Maybe I could start off this way, that everything we try as a species seems to turn out wrong. And you only have to look at the environment to see how full of examples that is. I mean, we have these problems, the farmers have problems with pests.
So industry comes out and says, hey, we have these new things called pesticides. These will kill the pests. They do, but they end up poisoning us, causing enormous problems in the water system, causing problems with birds and butterflies and bees that are meant to pollinate these incredible plants. We think, oh, we need motors to... Propel us to go from one place to another.
It destroys nature, pollutes everything. So something fundamental is wrong. This is what I try to talk with the students about. And let's start there, if we could. Would that be okay if we started with the fundamental problem that the human being has in terms of energy and environment and these kinds of things?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Big Pharma and
Richard: American Medical
Cláudia: Association, which is bringing to the whole planet a very materialistic, crazy, lunatic, commercialized kind of medicine, homicide kind of medicine.
You know something, Jones, when Dr. Keppe started his work, he thought that the only and very source or the only source of psychosis, neurosis and psychosomatic medicines and organic illnesses was only the inner life of the individual. Thinking about this as a primal cause, this is okay, this is fine, this is all right. But after he went to United States to work and he attended clients and he got involved in this first world so-called kind of society, he realized that presently the sociopathology is even worse than individual pathology.
If you are born with a good balance, but if you have to live and be raised in our society the way it is, you will be absolutely no exclusions, at least a neurotic person. If you are born like a neurotic person, too selfish or too envious or this or that, you will be a psychotic or a psychopath or a very sick person and you will die very soon.
And you will be one weapon to destroy other people and yourself with no chances to get better. Even if you have a psychiatric treatment or a psychological treatment or if you change your life from here and there to a job, from a job to another job, from a relationship to another relationship. Because this plague is all over the planet. Society is so sick presently that even if you are a saint or an angel, you cannot bear.
The society the energetics is really really bad. Even nature, which is a powerful thing to consider, it's not being able to cope with all this neurotic and psychotic and psychopathic behavior of humanity. What is
Richard: this sociopathology?
Cláudia: Sociopathology is a society that was distorted, was ruined, was destroyed, inverted, corrupted by individuals in power. The individuals in power, they are the sickest individuals of society.
And when a person who wants to have power, who seeks power, he is already more unbalanced. His development, his early developments were like stuck in a second phase of development, which is the anal phase, the sadomasochistic anal phase. People, individuals who look for power in society, they are sadistic. They are linked to money, power, aggressiveness. They want to destroy, to attack. They are envious, they are materialistic, they are linked to physis, to the second stage of pleasure, which is the anal phase.
Richard: In children from two to four years old.
Cláudia: Yes, exactly. The psychoanalytical studies show we have three phases, one
Richard: oral, another anal, and another genital. And they come every two years. It's like a progression through the development of the baby from zero to two, this oral phase, put everything in their mouth.
Cláudia: Those who are unable to pass, to develop from the second to the third phase and then to maturity, which is beyond seven years old.
Those who are not able to overcome this attachment to this phase, they will be the individuals who will look for power in politics, in enterprises, social living. And those individuals are the sickest individuals ever. The oral individuals, they are not that aggressive. They are more dependent. They are more inactive. They are less destructive. And the genital people, they are more artistic. They are more linked to relationships.
They want more like a noble kind of life. Plenty of beauty and romance. So they are not that active. But, you know, they don't hurt other people. But those who aren't attached to the second phase they really can hurt and they produce wars. Some
Richard: evidence of this. Cláudia, what's the evidence of this in the world? Because most people who've never studied this or heard about this before might be surprised to think wait a minute are you saying that there's a like an actual uh immaturity within the leadership of our planet?
This is clear that there is. But let's
Cláudia: think of some not only maturity but uh psychopath. Yeah. Psychopathic behavior. Yeah, you
Richard: said sadistic, anal sadistic. Sadistic, psychotic, and
Cláudia: psychopaths. If you want to know more and if you want to learn more, you can download a book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power by Norberto Chepi in our site. How is the site?
Richard: Www.liberationofthepeople.org This book's available in many places. So
Cláudia: liberationofthepeople.org is one site. The first deep psychoanalytical scientific study that a psychoanalyst did about the pathology in power. Can
Richard: I tell you an example of what happened to me when I moved to Toronto, Cláudia? When I first read Dr. Keppe's book was soon after I moved to Toronto. And this experience there really made me open to Dr.
Keppe's book. There was a new government elected in the province of Ontario, a conservative government. And most of the people, most of the city of Toronto had not voted for them, but because the population of Ontario is quite large, they were put into power. And one of the first things they wanted to do was to amalgamate the six small boroughs that made up Toronto.
Toronto was a really functioning city, and they wanted to amalgamate it into one great mega city. And all of the communities that were involved were affected by this, had their own little plebiscites, their own votes about whether they wanted to accept this or not. And it was overwhelmingly against, 90%, 87%, very, very high percentages against. And the government said, well, we don't care.
That's not an official plebiscite, so we're going to go ahead and do it anyway. And I was trying to understand this. I thought, well, these are just a bunch of crazy guys in power, which they are. But when I read Dr. Keppe's book, I finally understood after all these years what was going on. The pathology of power, the sadistic nature to say, we are going to take away your city, the thing that works, and we're going to, you know, like a little kid taking away somebody's toy.
And it was so impactful. And there was no reasoning with them.
Cláudia: All the behavior of those sadistic boys, those who bully other boys, they tend to become powerful in society, and they will become bulliers. Bullies. Bullies. Bullier, too. In society, and
Richard: doing this with nations, and using
Cláudia: armies, and armaments, and bombs, and all this. Right. To destroy others. To destroy for the pleasure to destroy, and have power to destroy.
This is horrible, but this is true. So those who want to have a better understanding, they have plenty of access to this book. And I would like Will to read the cover. Will, you have a beautiful English. My English is Brazilian.
Liberation of the People of the Pathology of Power by Norberto Keppe. The first scientific study of the psychosocial pathology of people with power, psychotics who are impeding human development and destroying society, with a unique and workable proposal for a truly free society based on an entirely new socioeconomic model, the trilogical enterprises where workers are owners.
So
Cláudia: this is what we are going to speak about a little bit today, Richard. And Keppe says here in the page 197, it's absolutely impossible to live a tranquil existence, to find peace, unless a society is constructed for the people themselves. Most businesses seek employees they can trust, so that they can exploit the people as much as possible. In spite of the fact that the owner's goal is to take whatever advantage they can of the humankind, of humankind, such individuals nevertheless see themselves.
As highly worthy people.
Richard: Valuable people. I
Cláudia: would like to warn, he continues, the general public that it will not be possible to change the attitudes of those now in power. We cannot. We have no strength to do this if we fight against them as in French Revolution and other revolutions. Because this will be a bloody revolution and the end will be what they want to eliminate 80 percent of humanity.
And
Richard: in the end as you said in our program last week we end up recreating the same situation anyway because we haven't conscientized sufficiently our own inverted will. So so
Cláudia: the proposal of capi here is we ourselves will have to produce our own goods and services in accordance with trilogical experience. And we will also have to prevent those in our own ranks to try to take that which is not theirs, or those who aspire to power according to their old formula.
Power is only of the people, for the people, and by the people, and they alone must wield it. Okay
Richard: let's come back and talk about how we're going to do that. How we produce our own products, create our own companies, develop our own society and not just fight head-on with these crazy guys. So we'll do that when we come back on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the stop radio network.
When our program continues in just a moment
we're listening to the most relevant conversations on the planet about how to stop destroying ourselves and the world.
Back in 1986, Norberto Keppe wrote a book that predicted the worldwide economic crisis we're facing today. Liberation of the People critiques the pathology of power that lies at the base of our inverted social system and points the way out.
This is essential reading for anyone wanting to find out how we got in such a mess and how we can get out.
I'm
Richard: Richard Lloyd Jones. You know, there are many ways to dig deeper into the themes we discuss in our Stop Radio Network programs. There are books and TV and radio programs, conferences, teleclasses.
But what about this one, learning a language? That's kind of wild, isn't it? Millennium Language School in São Paulo, where I teach, incidentally, offers eight language courses using Norberto Keppe's psycholinguistic method. Yeah, we use his vast literature and scientific findings to make it easier for anyone to learn a language. It'd be a great time to tackle Portuguese, actually, with Brazil quickly becoming a prime world destination.
And you can learn online from wherever you are. So drop us a line if you'd like to learn more.
We're teaching life in eight languages. You're listening
Susan: to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, Richard Lloyd Jones, and Will Lajeunesse with us today.
And, Cláudia, you were reading some very beautiful things from Dr. Keppe's book. Every time anybody reads from this book, especially me, Liberation of the People, I feel inspired. And in here, Dr. Keppe says another thing. He talks about how we we need to actually create a like a parallel society. And I don't mean this in the quantum physics way you know like a parallel reality
Cláudia: you know. And also not isolated society
Richard: exactly like not not something apart but something that is an alternative in a true sense of that
Cláudia: inside society but uh like a healthy cell inside the sick society.
And this is what
Richard: we're doing here really. We have a number of companies a number of uh projects that we work on where we're actually putting into practice dr Keppe's ideas in Liberation
of the People in practice through our companies to our social projects. Let's let's talk about that. The Keppe motor is a huge part of
Richard: that. We have a an enormously successful fan that will has been very involved in in helping to build in our new factory in Campbell, Canada.
Cláudia: Yes, it's still a workshop. Yeah. Humble workshop thing, but very productive and very helpful. Yeah. I would like to say that if we want to organize and to start a cell, like there's a social cell, psychosocial cell, healthier, like an immunological cell. We act like immunological cells, wanting to help the other parts of the organism and the organs and bringing energy, bringing oxygen, bringing life to the other cells.
So we don't want to isolate from the whole organism, which is sick. Because Keppe puts in his last book, Slavery and Freedom, and he speaks about the true society or the society in itself, which is an organism, like a social net, like energetic tissue that holds every human being. We are social human beings. So this is very healthy, otherwise we would have collapsed a long time ago.
So this energetic net or tissue, which is society, it's being destroyed and corrupted and sick, like an organism which has HIV or cancer. And we need to have the immunological system reinforced, the immune cells reinforced, in order to make the organism get a life back again, like healthy again. To restore the true tissue. Yes, that's our role in society,
Richard: is to act like
Cláudia: immunological cells, K-cells, Keppe cells.
So, what we have to do in these small cells, socioeconomic cells, we have to take care of the psychological aspect, because every human being has his own pathologies. Envy, we all have some degree the wish for power, too. But this must be controlled, this must be conscientized, so we need to have the psychological approach, taking care all the time of the pathology of those members.
The members of this trilogical cell, psychosocial cell
Susan: or
Cláudia: unit. So all members need, first of all, take care of the psychopathology of each individuals and the pathology of the dynamic of the sociopathology inside the group. So this work is primarily, we need to take care of this.
Richard: And we can do this, and I'm thinking not everybody's going to want
Cláudia: to come to our group here, but we can do this through radio programs.
People who have the ability now to analyze what's going on in society can begin to play that function, can begin to play that role, to analyze and talk about what's really going on. This is very important.
Richard: Okay, what else, Cláudia?
Cláudia: So, second, as Keppe puts here, the trilogical enterprises and trilogical residences or…
Richard: Collective residences, a way of living
Cláudia: together. It can be collective.
It can be like a group of people. We might say a community, we might say not a community, because community is already so distorted, how can
Richard: we say a small society? A
Cláudia: small society. So these small societies or these groups that help each other. The other morning I was listening to one of the tapes Will sent me from Canada, Malachi Martin speaking about the old way of having the communities, like the parish, people that
Susan: lived
Cláudia: in a borough, in a place.
Everybody together and helping each other. What is this? The sense of community. Real community. The real community. The parishes and if not parishes but people who lived in the same neighborhood and helped each other. So that's the meaning of this trilogical residences or
Richard: societies to help each other. Yeah to replace the government having to look after us we begin to look after the the needs of each other within the
Cláudia: community.
To be more rational in what we do. To share the expenses for the benefit of all. So to rationalize and maximize the benefits for the whole group. So every member of this community helping each other in their needs and even practical needs. How to take care of the children. How to raise their children. How to cook better for everybody or have this sharing the house chores.
So this kind of psychosocial cells trilogical ones we have the philosophy that nobody is expected to exploit anyone nor to have speculation. Nobody's supposed to work in a trilogical enterprise just putting money in there and taking profits. So speculation is forbidden as well as exploitation. So these trilogical enterprises, they could be called the... Psycho-psychic kind of enterprises. Or Christian. Christian in the early Christianity concept.
That everybody was there with the same rights and duties to work for the good of all.
Richard: And instead of looking for China to produce all our products, please, let's get away from this idea and start creating our own products. So
Cláudia: there is a lot of concept of permaculture, trilogical permaculture understanding of life. Being self-sufficient as much as possible. So, Richard and Will, do you know who is being able to cope with this sandy storm consequences in Staten Island, in Long Island and New York?
Richard: And New Jersey?
Cláudia: You know the only ones? Not yet. Those who stored water, those who stored food, those who were already expecting this to come in their basements. Everything was stored and they were taken as conspiracy theorist followers or things or lunatics. So, in the moment, they are
Susan: the only ones that are being able to cope with the situation.
Richard: They have batteries, they have water, they have pharmaceutical first aid kits,
Cláudia: they have everything.
They have shelter, they have clothing, extra clothing, and they
Richard: are even able to help others. So, this is something, this is a concept we must have. We must prevent, like... Be more self-sufficient in a sense. Protect ourselves
Cláudia: from what is coming. We need to have a community of people in your place, in your borough, your neighbors, your friends. You should get together and have a place to stay if necessary with food and water and supplies for a necessity.
And not only this, but also try to organize a way to produce food and to have some water being produced or taken.
Richard: You can do this. You can recycle water. You can do things to
Cláudia: generate. If you don't have
Richard: a good source of water, as we have, we have the chance to have in our
Cláudia: permaculture unit in Minas Gerais, we have water, plenty of water.
So those who don't have the chance to do this, they have to find out a way to have water, supplies, food for themselves.
Richard: And the people who don't have are going to come and try and get it. We have to find a way to do this collectively. Yes,
Cláudia: yes. So one way, too, is to organize activities, enterprises that can survive a financial crisis and even be healthy and support the financial crisis, like Keppe Motors.
The Keppe Motors, they are motors that are universal. They can be applied to many things. And it's so easy to start a Keppe Motor workshop in your backyard and have four or five or ten partners in a trilogical enterprise. Everybody being the owner, everybody being responsible and producing motors. And it's not difficult. And we have here Will with us, and he's part of one of those units in Minas Gerais, and he's producing fans that save up to 70% energy.
So they are very helpful.
Yes, yes. We got together, a small group of us, and we formed a trilogical company, The Workers Are Owners. So we are part of this company. We don't work for anybody. We work for ourselves and the betterment of humanity. We came together in a parking garage of an old Art Deco hotel in Minister Ice, as Dr. Cláudia said, and we started by bringing all of our tools, all of our skills and knowledge from past jobs, Dr.
Keppe's invaluable science and orientation and guidance, Dr. Cláudia's guidance, and Cesar Soós, also an inventor of the Keppe motor. His research in Dr. Keppe's science developed the motor and brought all of this incredible amount of
Cláudia: knowledge and consciousness together. And
Richard: we decided to start a factory manufacturing Keppe motor fans. Two of which we have in the studio, by the way.
Yes, two of which we have right here.
They're very beautiful. They're Art Deco style. They're wood. They're the only fans in the world that are made of wood.
Cláudia: Because they don't get warm. They are
cold. The motors are cold. They run cold. The air that comes from them is incredible. It's cool air. A normal fan that runs off of an inverted electrical motor blows warm air around, but our Keppe motor fans blow cold air.
Cláudia: Because of the magnetic technology. Resonant. They are magnetic resonant motors, right? And they work in
Susan: the principle of pulse.
So they take energy from space. It's a development of Tesla's technology. This is beautiful. That's incredible. So we
Cláudia: have the most advanced kind
of technology going on in
Richard: the smallest factory of motors in the planet. So this is so beautiful to see. And this experience, this model can be reproduced.
And we are organizing a way so all the people who want to reproduce this experience, being able to be in contact with this association, which is an NGO. It's an association. It's not for profit. This idea of creating motors, of creating businesses, of creating a society that works together is something that we're doing in Cabo Gira.
Cláudia: So invite, I want
Richard: you
Cláudia: and Will to invite your fellow men,
and not only your fellow men in Canada, but also all over the world, those who are ready to start and they need.
There are many, many people who don't have any jobs and they could very easily get together 10, 15, 20, 5, whatever, 5 people from 5 people to more if they get together and they take an old machine, you have adapted old machines.
Susan: So it's so small amount of capital to be invested in this. Very simple tools right.
It's such a simplistic kind of technology that even adolescents and children can work with that right.
Absolutely. Most people in north america for example have all the tools necessary in their garages that are just sitting there not being used. Yeah
Richard: and then what's great about this Cláudia is not only are you building a motor and developing a business but you're saving the planet. Yes because it
Cláudia: doesn't destroy. Yes yes it's totally ecological totally sustainable totally efficient and green and healthy harmonizer.
It's it's everything. So those who are and also I want to say that the lab of the capimotor the capimotor lab with the engineers they are developing the motors so very soon we will have motors to be adapted to solar panels and pump pumps pumps water pumps
water pumps
Cláudia: and other things other purposes too. So it's not only fans. Those who are in the north pole they will not enjoy a fan in their houses but they will be able to have to have the motors being used for bicycles for very soon we are investing our own time in our own the money that comes from our own work no investors in these companies.
And so here we are ready to cooperate with you. Just at the
Richard: moment when people think that all is lost, we have this whole resurgence of a true society. Yes. This is great
Cláudia: hope for people. Immune cells. Yeah. K-cells. K-cells that are immunological cells that will bring life, energy, health back to the planet. Be part of
Richard: the immune system that's restoring the true tissue of society.
Yes. Establishing healthy groups to work like society's immune system. I can almost guarantee that idea has seldom, if ever, been considered before. And it comes from a perhaps radical idea that society's health should be restored, not created. Meaning that the true state of society, like the body or nature, is health and equilibrium. We shouldn't be thinking of evolving then, but of returning to that true state by conscientizing and controlling our deviations from that.
That's our program for this week. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Join us next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
