Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. In the 1500s, the scientific revolution was in full bloom. Scientists were fighting for independence from the theological dogmas that were unchallengeable. The Bible was literally interpreted back then, so when it said the sun rises and sets, that was the final word. One of the lead revolutionaries, the scientific Che Guevara, if you will, was Galileo, who proposed that actually it was the earth that was moving, not the sun.
This caused quite the furor in the 1630s. Today, there's another scientific revolution emerging. There are no Inquisition trials, but Norberto Keppe's scientific perspective is receiving the modern-day equivalent, silence from the scientific mainstream. His view, though, is still shaking the foundations of science, just as Galileo and Bacon did 600 years ago. Keppe doesn't make the mistake the 16th century radicals did, though, of throwing out philosophy and theology in his scientific proposals.
It makes for a comprehensive science that's leading us to a new society. The metaphysical basis of Keppe's new physics today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Well, revolutionary ideas. That makes my Aquarian baby boomer heart pick up a little because it's something that impacts our thinking. That's right in the pocket of what we try to do on our program. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is the title after all, and on our Stop Radio Network as well.
And Keppe's science is worthy of more investigation. His many books available, his enormous treasury of TV programs, his vast synthesis of what was right from the past philosophers and theologians into a cohesive, synthesized scientific philosophy is extraordinary.
And Keppe's science will be amply explored from July 6th to 13th, 2013, at our International Conference of Analytical Trilogy here in Brazil.
I want to take a few moments just to let you know more about this. If you're intrigued or have been intrigued for a while by what we talk about on our Stop Radio Network, this may be the opportunity you've been waiting for to learn more. You know, Brazil's not really a very difficult place to visit. I can tell you that from experience.
I came for six months, and 11 1⁄2 years later, I'm still here. There are very warm and welcoming people in Brazil. There's great healthy food, very agreeable climate. And our conferences are very abundant affairs, because our work here really is impressive. We have very successful companies that we conduct based on the groundbreaking principles that eliminate speculation and exploitation, and use Keppe's psychological-sociological techniques to eliminate the difficulties of resolving conflicts and treating the pathology of power.
This is very advanced business leadership we practice down here. And our hotel complex, where we'll be holding our conference, is also stimulating. It's a three-story, beautifully renovated Art Deco hotel with a spa, theater, two saunas, a pool, organic veggie garden, fish pond, solar panels for heating the water. And it's all located in a bucolic section of the Atlantic forest with some of the best natural mineral water in the world.
You could spend your time in worse places, let me tell you. And, of course, six days of exposure to our science and social programs that will encourage you about how we can solve our myriad problems on earth. So this is a very open-hearted welcome from this Brazilian-Canadian for you to join us. July 6th to 13th, 2013.
And let's bait the hook a little. Any who follow Sterling Allen's Free Energy Now website have no doubt been following Sterling's exuberant travelogue of his experience visiting our society and the Keppe Motor. So, riding this sort of wave of resonance, I've invited one of the lead engineers on the Keppe Motor Project to join me in our program today, Alexandre Frascari, and the metaphysical basis of Keppe's new physics when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns on the Stop Radio Network.
Now, the Stop Radio Network presents Insights with Susan Berkley, selected readings from Norberto Keppe's vast body of work. Insights is brought to you by the 19th International Conference of Analytical Trilogy.
Susan Berkley: I'm Susan Berkley with an insight on Inversion from the book The Trilogical Bible by Norberto Keppe. The human being doesn't want life to be good. An excerpt from a psychoanalytical session. Patient.
I don't know what to do to get better. Analyst. Or you don't know what to do so you won't get better. How so? Well, your idea is that life itself is very good, and you don't know what to do to make it not be that way. This contradiction clarifies what has become of mankind, because through the process of inversion, man elevates the inhuman above the human.
Greed, megalomania, laziness, gluttony, indeed everything that causes his unhappiness. People do not want to perceive that an unhappy life is a choice, impregnated in their philosophy of life, customs, and in their way of life. And if they do not conscientize this behavior, they won't manage to become happy. Most people do not enjoy even 50% of all the beauty that exists in the world because they do not perceive how much they oppose it.
Richard: You've been listening to Insights with Susan Berkley. Selected readings from Norberto Keppe's books.
You're listening
to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Richard Lloyd Jones and Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: We're on the Stop Radio Network, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Richard Lloyd Jones with you, and a couple of special guests from the Keppe Motor team. Alexandre Frascari, he's trying, he's totally stressed there, sitting there thinking, what am I going
Alexandre Frascari: to say
about the Keppe Motor?
Alexandre: And Will Lajeunesse is here too, so we're kind of privileged to have you guys with us. Alex, I've been following a lot. Now, since Sterling Allen has been here from Free Energy Now, and we did a radio program, and he did a number of videos on his experience with the Keppe Motor there in Cabo Quira, and I think also in your lab here in São Paulo.
And so interest is kind of heightened, we could say that. I don't know that I would say exploding, but it's heightened in interest in the Keppe Motor. So I thought it would be really excellent if we sat and discussed some of the basic principles of it to clear up any difficulties that might come up as people are looking at this thing. And it might be very interesting to clarify some of the confusion about what the Keppe motor is and what it does.
Why don't we start there? What is it? What does it do? How do we lay this out in as simplistic terms as possible for people? Okay, let's start from the beginning. Yeah. Okay, Dr. Keppe, he's a psychoanalyst, and he made a study about the human psychic, The Psychopathology of the Human Beings. From this point, he started to analyze in the history of philosophy what ideas that philosophies had that were pathological.
Wrong,
Richard: incorrect somehow.
Alexandre: Yes, that were inverted, as he says. Inverted is that they put things in the opposite way. Okay. In doing this work, he perceived that Aristotelian metaphysics was inverted because…
Richard: And Aristotelian metaphysics is the basis of all modern science.
Alexandre: That's the next step. So when he started
Richard: studying this, he perceived that Aristotle made an
Alexandre: inversion because he puts matter and a potential as the basis of action.
So this is not a correct view of the world because the essence of the world is action. There is nothing in the world that's stopped. If you try to stop a particle, for example, it will disappear. Everything is in movement. So the idea that a potential will give rise to energy is an inverted idea. So Keppe did a whole study demonstrating how these ideas are inverted.
And in this book, he's called The Trilogical Metaphysics. So after he did this work, He perceived that whole modern science is based on that inverted metaphysics of Aristotle. So it was very natural that if you correct the metaphysics of Aristotle, as a consequence, you have to correct the ideas in science that are based on these inverted metaphysics.
Richard: It makes complete sense. If the foundation is wrong, then all of the subsequent developments from that basis have to be wrong, too.
Alexandre: Yes, and he wrote this book called The New Physics of the Disinverted Metaphysics.
Richard: Which none of us understands, but this point that you're talking about now, I think we can grasp. The implications of this are enormous, too.
Alexandre: So, yes, as you said, it's very difficult to perceive, to understand his ideas, not only for you, but for us.
I think it's even more difficult for us because we had a technical background.
And so all the theories that we have studied are based in fundamental and inverted metaphysics. So the most difficult thing to do is to change this way of thinking. It's an exercise that you take years and years, decades, so you can start to modify the way you think and start to perceive how things really are.
Richard: Can you give us sort of the crucial elements that have come from this disinverted?
You were talking about the fact of matter and potential being the source of life, of development of science, that this is wrong, that nothing comes from potential, everything's in movement, in action. What are some of the other ideas based on this wrong metaphysics that have impacted us in modern science so much today?
Alexandre: Yes, you can see everywhere this. For example, if you go to physics, we'll see that the scientists, the physicists are always looking for the fundamental particle.
Black hole, for example, in the space, the only thing they can observe is energy. But since they have this assumption that it's matter that's generating energy, So they believe that there is a source, a mass amount of matter there that's creating this, even if they cannot observe. So you see that in physics this is very clear. But, for example, in genetics, people that believe that the genetic code, the DNA, is the source of the behavior, of the source of all the manifestations, diseases.
So they are also doing the same. So in economy, for example, in economy people believe that you need money, the material, to do something. But it's the contrary. The money is a consequence of the work. So you see that everywhere in our life we have these ideas embedded in our mind. And it's very difficult to change this. So there
Richard: was a letter that came related to this on Sterling Allen's Free Energy Now site that said, in a sense, he said, the Keppe motor people have an explanation within the facts, the frequently asked questions about how the motor works.
The explanation is super extra strange for someone who uses the physics that's been built over thousands of years by a lot of super minds. And so what you're talking about now is a basic restructuring of the nature of how we see reality. It's
Alexandre: not a small thing, is it? No, it's not. Even the mathematics, mathematics is not about calculations or symbols. Mathematics is about ideas.
So when you apply mathematics, you are applying, even if you don't perceive, that's most of the people don't, you are applying a philosophy, a point of view over the phenomena that you are observing. So yes, it has to be a disinversion, but not in the consequences, but in the essence of the problem. So when you make this fundamental change, you start to see the universe in a very different way.
For example, after this work of Keppe on physics, we have been trying to apply this or to measure this in a device, a motor, right? And we were able to make a motor that shows another unity that we call. What this means? It means that the input of energy, for example in a motor you input electrical energy, and what you get the output is mechanical energy, that's torque and speed and heat.
So in this small motor that we were able to assemble, you can see that electrical energy is smaller. The input is smaller than the output. You're producing more than you're using to drive the motor. Yes, that's the wrong idea. We are not producing. We are capturing. Because we use magnets, for example. Think about a magnet. A magnet, it's a piece of metal and has a field, a magnetic field around it.
This magnetic field is not produced by matter. The piece of magnet, it captures this energy from the outside. And converts into magnetic field. So, in this motor, what we do is that we are able to use this property of magnets to capture more energy besides the electrical energy that we input in. So, we were able to show it's a small motor of 4 watts.
Just to clarify to people, it's very difficult to measure. We went into major labs and created a very big controversy because, you see, if they admit this, they have to review whole physics. Yeah.
Richard: Everything changes.
Alexandre: Everything changes. And they are not willing to risk their reputation in this, the status quo in the society as it is, signing for something that they cannot understand.
Richard: That's so interesting because I was talking to a university professor yesterday from Brazil who's trying to introduce the new physics into his classes. And he was saying the biggest resistance he gets is not from the students. It's from the tenured professors, the teachers who've been there the longest. They're the ones that have the biggest difficulty to admit that what they have been studying and researching is incomplete or even wrong or inverted.
So the resistance comes from the more into the system we are, the more difficult it is for us to admit that it's wrong. This is what happens
Alexandre: everywhere, isn't it? Yes. What I perceived talking to scientists is that when you go out of the university, you think you know everything. Yes, that's right.
Yeah. And only after a long life of research and study, you perceive the limits you have in your knowledge.
And you start to question this. But these people are very few people in the world. Okay. So, that's one of psychological reasons. So, there are many social reasons, psychological reasons why people don't want to admit this, okay? But what I wanted to mention is that this energy from space that we call essential energy is the basis of everything that exists. And it would not be necessary to prove this in a machine.
You know, this is something we try to do exactly for the professors to accept, using their language, their techniques, and their way of thinking, okay? But if you observe nature and life, we are an over-unity machine, okay? You cannot account life only for the food you eat. It's something that is obvious, you know, but that's where genius is, to see obvious things that nobody sees.
That's what Capi did in his work. For example, I can give you another example in physics.
Alexandre: There is an effect called a Haranoff bomb effect. When they, they proposed this experiment was a theoretical experiment, it took 35 years to make an experiment to really verify if it's right or not. But just explaining in general is that you can produce an effect without a cause, of course without an apparent cause, apparent cause, yes.
Okay, so how did the physicist when they saw the, this was a real thing. How did they react to that? Because if they admit that there
Richard: is an energy that they don't know about, that's causing an effect, they would have to review all their concepts. So this was very hard to do. So they found another solution, I'm assuming. Okay,
Alexandre: everything I've been studying in the last 30 years is wrong and I have to think.
I'm going to go kill my physics professors. I'm
Richard: going to throw myself off a bridge. So what did they do? So what did they do?
Alexandre: They used a mathematical entity called potential to explain the phenomenon. They just invented. Did they, in effect, invent this? No, it's a mathematical technique that was used to make calculations easier, but it was called potential. So the idea of potential, you can see as it comes from Aristotle, also that it is that the potential is causing something, okay?
So they avoided recognizing a kind of energy that could cause this effect, calling this a potential. So in my opinion, this potential is like the unconscious of physics, because everything you don't know you call potential. And maybe
Richard: it's the, we have to take a break here, but maybe potential is the inverted term for essential energy. The actual thing that's causing this is essential energy that they don't want to acknowledge, so they name it potential.
Would that be a way of thinking
Alexandre: of it? Yeah, it's not only that because potential technically is used to describe energy in a point in space where you don't have to describe the source. So they include the essential energy there so they don't have to explain the source of it. Where it comes from. Yes. We'll
Richard: take a break. We're back in a minute with Alexandre Frascari.
Will Lajeunesse is here with us too on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network back in a moment.
Richard: Tuesday in New York and Gwen's headache is now five days old. Wednesday in London and Ronald's left the hospital for the streets again.
It's Thursday in Mogadishu and angry students are protesting against corruption. Whether the illness is physical, psychological, or social, Norberto Keppe's The Origin of Illness is a book that gets to the bottom of it and offers a solution.
Norberto Keppe and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world. This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the stop radio network.
Thinking
Richard: with Somebody Else's Head, that we are on the stop radio network at stop radio.org, and you can get us streaming in all sorts of places, including through iTunes, and also this new, this very cool downloadable app, downloadable to your smartphone, called Tune In, where you can access our radio station on your smartphone device anywhere in the world, which is very very cool.
Alex, let's just, uh, I want to bring Will in too to make sure he's not just sitting here looking at our handsome faces. Let's just try to conclude this idea that we were talking about before we went into the break of the Arharanov bomb effect, and how they just labeled the essential energy part, which they didn't really understand, they labeled that as potential, as a way to avoid having to accept or see that there was another component that was invisible that they didn't want to explain because it didn't fit in their sort of physical understandings.
This is what happens all the time, right? We identify something in nature, which we see, but we don't know how to identify it, so we identify it according to what we're already thinking. Is this what happened in this case?
Alexandre: Yes, exactly this point, because the phenomenon they observe is the same. But how do you understand this phenomenon? The ideas, they don't come from experiment.
They come from our philosophy of life. So the way I think, the beliefs I have in the world, is that determine the way I'm going to explain that phenomenon. So if you have in your mind a materialistic point of view, an inverted metaphysics, you analyze the phenomenon with this point of view. So you see things the way you are. That's the point.
And the way you are, it's mixed with our own pathology, our envy, our lack of perception, our materialism, lots of problems that interfere in the way we interpret this. So this is the important, I think, the important point. So, what Keppe is trying to do is to give a more coherent basis for the understanding of the phenomena we see.
Richard: Well, let's go there then.
What is Keppe? How would Keppe determine this? If a Haranoff bomb or interpreting this invisible aspect as potential and matter, how would Keppe see that?
Alexandre: For Keppe, reality is not made only of sensitive things that we detect from our senses. So we have to consider that there are energies that we can perceive through our senses. And there are energies that we cannot measure.
We don't know how to measure. We call this like invisible energies. So if you have an effect, of course there is a cause for this effect. And if you don't know how to measure, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that our technical abilities, our knowledge is limited. But we have to admit that there is this kind
Richard: of danger. Because of our inverted philosophy, our materialistic philosophy coming from Aristotle, we want to tend to say, well, there's energy there somewhere.
We don't know where it is or what it is yet, but we know that it comes from material. Yes. Because
Alexandre: that's our philosophy. For example, there are experiments they made with telepathy. For example, you can see some videos from Rupert Sheldrake where he shows that people that have a resonance between them, they are able to stay tuned, let's say, with each other.
So they can perceive when he knows the person that is calling him before he answers the phone. And he showed that there is a significant percentage of people that can do that. I
Richard: think everybody has had this experience. Yes,
Alexandre: very common. They make the experiments,
Richard: for example, with people in two rooms, shielded rooms with Faraday cages, and trying to isolate all kinds of energy.
And they put all kinds of sensors to try to see if there is an energy going from one person to the other. And they don't measure anything. But it just means that the equipment they are using, it's limited, it's not able to measure. Because if there is a communication between two people, it must be a kind of energy between them. To understand how reality is, how the universe is built in, we have to consider that there are energies, energies, sensitive energies, and energies that are invisible.
So when you analyze this, of course you have to consider that there is an energy. Even though, even if I don't know how to measure, how to... I
Alexandre: don't have the equipment to be
Richard: able to
Alexandre: determine it, it must be there somewhere.
Richard: Yeah, very interesting. Well, Papien, what's your...
Yeah, it's really fascinating. What
Richard: are your thoughts, what are your observations here as you're listening?
Well, for me, it's a whole new paradigm of thinking. And Dr. Keppe says that physics should actually be called energetics. And so one of the things I'm experiencing even today, I'm doing research in the Keppe motor. And with Keppe's paradigm, I'm seeing things in a whole new different way. How the earth works, how magnetics works, how cells work. It's incredible, his universal science.
It really is. And we've only just barely scratched the surface of it.
Richard: Yeah. How has all this led to the Keppe motor, you guys? I mean, here we are talking about the disinverting Aristotle and that energy doesn't come from potential, doesn't come from material. How has all this led to the Keppe motor? What is that process?
It comes with a perception of what Tesla called scalar energy.
That that's the primary energy in the universe and that all things, including our bodies, are made of this scalar energy. And this is the complete opposite of what people like Einstein say, that matter creates the energy. But it's not. It's the energy that creates the matter. So, for example, if we are burning a piece of coal or wood, energy comes out of that process.
Some call it a chemical reaction. But in the case of wood, if you're burning a piece of wood, and Keppe gives a really good analogy, he says it's like the soul of the wood being released. So it's like the scale energy that's, that's in, in this material form is being returned back or turned into heat, but it's, it's being turned into a secondary form of energy, but it's the primary form of energy that created the wood, the tree and all of that.
Yeah,
Richard: that's interesting. So could
we say, you guys, that, um, the Keppe motor is really just an efficient way of capturing this counter energy? Yes, oh, that's the idea. I see it also like if you've seen a water wheel that they've been using for hundreds of years, if not thousands, the water flow passes over the wheel, spins the wheel, turns it into mechanical energy, and they use that to mill flour and do different things.
Well, it's the capping motor similar to this. The coil surrounding a magnetic center with north and south poles, the coil, the coil create pulses and allows the scale energy, which is like the water, to come through and spin the magnetic shaft, the center of the motor. It's something like this. Alex,
Richard: are we getting some, some comments about this on our various blogs?
I think, uh, people are, are worried about, uh, motor performance comparisons and, uh, operating temperature data and sound data, health data, electromagnetic radiation readings. People are, are wanting to see kind of proofs of these kind of things. Does this relate a little bit to the old model of physics where we need to measure everything? Yes,
Alexandre: we, the, let's say current acceptance is that you need to demonstrate this and you need
Richard: a mathematical formula to illustrate what's happening.
This is the other thing that people are
Alexandre: always crazy for, isn't it? Yes, but first we have to correct the ideas in mathematics to do so. There we are.
Richard: And I think this is, when you talked at the very beginning about this fundamental core of metaphysics, the inversion in metaphysics, this is the fundamental aspect of everything. You know, we're so quick to jump to wanting to do that we don't want to think about how we got to what we're doing.
You know, the metaphysics
Alexandre: is really important. No, it's important to see that if you think historically, we have had first philosophical time with the Greeks. After, with Thomas Aquinas, he said that what religion, what Christianism said was not against philosophy. They were compatible, that means that the dogmas were not against reason. So he made a kind of junction between philosophy and theology.
So naturally, the next step would be to include the experimentation, the science. That's what Capi calls trilogy, is the union between science, philosophy and theology. This did not happen when Descartes, for example, and Bacon, they made a cut with metaphysical and philosophical questions. They wanted to base science purely on experimentation and mathematics. What Descartes did, he replaced metaphysics for mathematics. So today when we study science, all the books, they make a point of not mentioning anything related to metaphysics and philosophy, which is completely wrong because even if they don't mention, they are following a metaphysical idea.
It's just they don't perceive it. It's hidden in mathematics. It's hidden in the theories. So this is very important. The people start to question this. And if you don't have a correct metaphysics, a disinverted metaphysics, as Keppe calls it, the science goes up to a certain point and stops because there are mistakes in the ideas. So if you want to develop, go further, you have to correct first these ideas.
Richard: But I wanted to follow up on what you were saying because the illusion we have about science today is that science comes only from empirical evidence. Yes. But this is not true. Now we have a medical science, for example, that diagnoses people with problems, saying that the problem is this virus or that bacteria or this distortion in some sort of physical capacity without considering at all the psychological,
Alexandre: emotional aspect of what causes disease.
So they're making decisions, making diagnosis based on a metaphysics that's incomplete, certainly and probably inverted as well. So this is the problem that's happening in science, isn't it? Science is not coming from empirical data. It's coming from philosophy, a philosophy of life. Exactly. The same way that a human being is one energy that manifests in a body and a soul. Let's say body and soul are manifestations of the same essential energy that constitutes a human being.
In physics it's the same, what you see as energy in particle, it's manifestations, different manifestations of the same essential energy. So this separation is called illimorphism in philosophy, and it was also adopted by Descartes in medicine. So he said, no, we have to separate the body, the physicist studies the body, and the psychologist studies the soul, because they are two separate substances that are just put together.
And this is completely wrong. We see today with psychosomatic diseases that everything thought or emotion you have affects your body because they are one thing and the same. So before you get sick in your body, you first get sick in your mind. This is so fascinating. Well, look, what have we done?
Richard: We've scratched a little bit of the surface here. Yes. But I think this aspect of
disinverting metaphysics is important.
And what books
Alexandre: would you recommend important for people to read if they want to understand Keppe's views on this? Yes, the essential book is Trilogical Metaphysics 1. Trilogical
Richard: Metaphysics 1, which is in English, called The
Alexandre: Liberation of the Being.
Richard: Yes. Also Universal Man, maybe.
Alexandre: Is it in English? Yes. Yes, it's a very important book because it gives the right basis for science.
So he corrects all these mistakes, all these philosophies that were used by science as a basis and shows how is the correct procedure, the correct way, how the human being knows the nature. It's excellent. I've been studying this book for the last 10
Richard: years.
Thank you both. Fantastic program. Norberto Keppe's proposals in science are profound and challenging, especially for any schooled in traditional scientific principles.
But there's something exhilarating in that. We're on the cusp of a new scientific paradigm that will shift our worldview dramatically. That gets me out of bed in the morning.
Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We're on the Stop Radio Network.
