Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Way back in English Lit class at Reynolds High School in my hometown of Victoria, I remember Mrs. Kent waxing rhapsodically about Milton's Paradise Lost, and asking us if we believed in Paradise Regained. I, with my thoughts on the basketball game that night against arch-rivals Oak Bay, thought she was a bit loopy.
But something must have got through, for I've found myself not infrequently since reflecting on that very question. I've never felt completely comfortable in society as it's been elaborated and yearned not only for something better, but for how I might play a part in improving it. And it is this, of course, that's led me to Brazil and the profound work of Dr. Norberto Keppe.
Because I'm happy to report, there is, in this science of psychosociopathology, both a sublime analysis of how we've painted ourselves into such a tight corner and a therapy to help us get out If we apply Keppe's findings, we have a chance. Paradise Now and the Universal Society, today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Our program is proudly part of the Stop Radio Network and available in a number of ways.
Programs are available as individual downloads, and we have close to 500,000 of those now, through iTunes or any podcatcher. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is the podcast name. Our innovative radio station, the Stop Radio Network, is available wherever fine radio stations are sold. I've always wanted to say that.
And by the way, if you visit our sites, you'll see a little icon there on the homepage to send us a voicemail. Boy, I would love you to do that. So if you're inspired, feel free. You know, one of the saddest things I think you can say about a person is he lost his idealism. That seems to me a personal tragedy that's played out billions of times in human history, but perhaps most notably in the last century.
Because it was in this period that we most became free enough of the rigors of survival that we could take a look more deeply at what it means to be human. With the liberation of many of us from manual labor, and with the various humanistic movements of the past two or three hundred years or so, we've seen a deep questioning in society about the basic human questions of meaning and purpose to human life.
We've seen pictures of the earth from space, and seen our fragile planet floating in the blackness like a blue pearl, and that's made us think about our place in the cosmos. We've been forced into reflection with the constant reports of species suffering at our hands and of billions of our brothers and sisters going without. We've had the opportunity and the means to reflect and consider.
And that's why I think it's so tragic when we abdicate that need and turn our backs on our idealism, on the desire to work for a just society, just because a corporation dangles a fat paycheck in front of us. Or there's a mania for publishing the habits and pathways to success that screams at us from bookstore shelves and magazine covers and leads us away from the true meaning of what it is to be human.
We sell out our idealism at great expense. Whether it's Obama praising Martin Luther King's tremendous spiritual power while cynically declaring that this example would not be sufficient for a political leader to follow, or a teenager trading her dreams to be an artist or an engineer for a career in credit default swaps, or a person on his deathbed lamenting a life wasted in secondary pursuits, the closing the door on ideals and hope is a true human tragedy.
Money can't buy love, as the lads from Liverpool reminded us all those years ago, but it seems we say, well, I'm going to sell out for money or fame or power just the same. Our program today, I hope, will rekindle any embers of idealism still burning in your tired breast, and assuage any postmodern anguish you may feel with the consoling consciousness that Norberto Keppe's work of Analytical Trilogy is here to lead the human being back to the goodness for which he was created.
Paradise now, and the universal society, when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues, on the Stop Radio Network.
In the United States,
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The new world order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles.
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: They are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean.
Richard: The people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated him.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head with Richard Lloyd Jones and Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: We are the Stop Radio Network. Our program is called Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We've been a couple of weeks without speaking with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, for which I have felt the lack of this.
Cláudia: I missed you and our audience. Very
Richard: nice.
We had
Cláudia: Alexandre Frascari and Will Lajeunesse trying to fill your shoes last week. But they have their own shoes, which
Richard: are beautiful. Alex's shoes are very big. Yeah. And they were talking about the Keppe motor and about Norberto Keppe's metaphysical basis of science.
Because
Richard: that's even more interesting than the Keppe motor, which is very interesting. The metaphysical basis that Keppe has brought, I think, is even
Cláudia: more interesting than the technology.
I think so, too.
Richard: You think so, too. So on the weekend, you were doing a new program, a new class that you're doing monthly, which is available, by the way, anybody who wants to watch online, it is available online, called The Secret History of Brazil. And this sounds like the history of Brazil, and it's not. It relates to Brazil. But it's actually the secret history of humankind, isn't it?
Yes.
Cláudia: Why do you think, when we think about Brazil in these terms, we think about humankind? What do you have
Richard: in mind, Richard? Well, my experience here, I think, that Brazil is a country that really welcomes everybody. But, I mean, there are many countries that could say that. But Brazil has a kind of a spiritual focus that you don't feel necessarily in other countries.
So if you come here and you're Jewish or Muslim or Catholic or Protestant or a spiritist or atheist, it doesn't matter. You're welcomed here, and your spiritual beliefs are incorporated inside the country. So I feel that Brazil, in a way, has a different role than other countries that have been built up around immigration. You
Cláudia: know something, Richard? If we want to do something really universal, if we want to do something for all peoples, for all religions, for all races, We need a space that is very special.
Brazil is this space. It's nature, it's climate, the environment, the people. If you want to do something ecumenical, universal, for all peoples, Brazil is the space. You cannot find anywhere else this situation that we have here. Because when you speak about United States being international, you can say that. But it's international in terms that everybody goes there for a purpose, which is not international purpose.
They have their own purpose, like doing businesses, learning something, making money, mostly doing tourism.
Becoming a great athlete.
Cláudia: Yes, doing tourism. It's more ego-oriented or corporate-oriented.
Richard: This is getting a slice of the American dream, I guess. Exactly,
Cláudia: exactly. And in Brazil, no, you have room for just to be who you are and to contribute if you want. And you have... An acceptance.
You are integrated here as in any other way or any other place in the world. There's
no
Richard: other place. Oh my God, it's no comparison, no comparison. So, it
Cláudia: seems that Brazil's mission is to be universal. It's fulfilling the Templar, the true Templar dream that started in Portugal a long, long time ago.
Richard: Back in the 1100s, I believe, Portugal was the first
Cláudia: state in
Richard: Europe.
Yeah, first state in Europe. First state in Europe. And they were founded on this idea of the Templar Knights, of universality.
Cláudia: This is what you're suggesting. The founder of Portugal was the founder of Templars. Oh, wow. Which is St. Bernardo, St. Bernard.
Richard: St. Bernard.
Cláudia: Yeah. And his cousin, Afonso Henriques. How do you say this in
Richard: your language? Alfonso Henry, I guess. I don't
Cláudia: know if we say Alphonse or what.
So they started the whole business of having a place in Europe far from the powers that be of the kings and the nobles and the Vatican. And so they were far from all the powers that be, like the temporal powers. And even though we say that churches should be religious and transcendental power, it's not. It's an institution built by man with man's pathologies and pathology of power.
And we are seeing this happening right now in Vatican, at the Vatican. Are
Richard: you saying then that Portugal was established with this goal in mind? Yes, for sure. It was not just a country that came
Cláudia: about? No, there was no country formed, no state at that time. There were like small groups and kingdoms and nobles here and there, and empires, but not a state like Portugal.
And the meaning of this was to, you know, Portugal is Porto do Grau.
Richard: Port of the Grail, the Holy Grail that they talk about in the Arthur legends.
Cláudia: And the intention they had was to use the maps that were found in Jerusalem in the basements, underground excavations
of the old
Cláudia: Solomon library of the temple, Solomon's temple. And they could find maps, precious maps, indicating where the old Phoenicians with the Jews went with their ships and with all this.
And how to get to those places where they could get gold and precious stones and animals, rare exotic animals and plants and all these specialties. So these people, the Phoenicians, much, much before Christ was born, they went all around the world with the Jews. All together they had an agreement. And they brought a lot of things. So they kept this navigation maps.
So these maps were
brought by the Templars. They didn't think the world was flat then. No,
Cláudia: they knew it was not.
It's very interesting. And
Cláudia: they have hidden the secret of this hidden precious lands. Like Brazil was known as the big island. And, by the way, Brazil, when it was discovered, between quotes, in the 1500s, in reality, they already knew Brazil for a long time.
But they call it a Ilha de Vera Cruz, and then a Ilha de Santa Cruz.
Richard: Okay, so the Isle of the True Cross, of
Cláudia: the Holy Cross. So they thought Brazil was a large, a big island, as Isaiah spoke in his writings and his prophecies. And the big islands and the islands were honey and milk would pour one day. So Brazil had its mission, and it has its mission.
And it seems that by intuition, many people are turning their interest in Brazil in this era. Which is the aquarium
Richard: era. You showed in your, a couple of graphics you showed in your presentation on Saturday that were interesting. One was the, you equated the shape of Portugal with the shape of a lion's head.
Cláudia: If you see NASA's picture of the Portugal taken from a...
High up in the satellite. Yeah, and
you see perfect format of a lion. Yeah, and what does
Cláudia: this mean? Lion is the meaning of the people of God, God's people. And so the Judah tribe and generally they call themselves as the lion of God. I mean, the meaning is everybody who is seen and live as the people of God, they are called the lion, the lion, the Judah lion.
But going back to this, Richard, I'm not wanting to say that Brazil is special and we should. In some way, it's special because it's meant to be a place where everybody who has a good will, good intention one day can come and do something meaningful to restore the planet, to reform the planet, and to apply the universal dream, the true universal dream, which is common to every human being.
Some people call it millennium, and they were seen as millenaristas. Why? Because the millenaristas, they follow St. John in the Revelation book, and some of the St. John's Gospel. Where Jesus Christ and where St. John, They say that here in this planet should be done what Jesus taught, which is a fair, just, peaceful, spiritual, friendly, loving, beautiful, truthful, and good
Richard: society. And when
Cláudia: you pray the Holy Father, you ask him to bring here, heaven, the kingdom of his, being done here, as it is in heaven.
So, Catholic Church went to a way that they led people to think that the life here, as St. Augustine said, God's life or God's society is the church and only the church. The rest of the world is the devil's world or something like this, profane. And according to the view of St. John, and our view as well, we understand that everybody who does something good, beautiful and truthful, who has a good intention, is Christian.
So being Christian under our point of view is to be good, beautiful, and truthful.
This simplifies it a
Cláudia: lot, actually, doesn't it? So this is the only way to unify all religions, to do a unification and go beyond some statutes of these institutions.
Richard: Let's come back in a minute. This is going to be an esoteric discussion, which is something I love to do with Cláudia.
In fact, in just a moment, I'm Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Don't go away. With listeners in more than 100 countries, you're listening to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, our signature program on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. You know, there are many ways to dig deeper into the themes we discuss in our Stop Radio Network programs.
There are books and TV and radio programs, conferences, teleclasses. But what about this one? Learning a language. That's kind of wild, isn't it? Millennium Language School in São Paulo, where I teach, incidentally, offers eight language courses using Norberto Keppe's psycholinguistic method. Yeah, we use his vast literature and scientific findings to make it easier for anyone to learn a language. It'd be a great time to tackle Portuguese, actually, with Brazil quickly becoming a prime world destination.
And you can learn online from wherever you are. So drop us a line if you'd like to learn more.
We're teaching life in eight languages.
Norberto Keppe, and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world.
This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or skype and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe motor Keppe's The science of science is outlined in his many books and TV programs, all available through our site at stop.org.br. Now, back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Thinking
Richard: with Somebody Else's Head is on the Stop Radio Network.
We're preparing for our International Congress of Analytical Trilogy in Cambukia July 6th to 13th, 2013. And maybe our radio program today is kind of a warm-up for that, Cláudia, because, you know, if we talk about this, you were talking about the new society, the millennium, and you showed a graphic also in your Saturday class of the age of Aquarius, sort of the latitude lines that mark the age of Aquarius come down through Greenland, a little tip of Canada.
Yes. Just on the very, very eastern part.
Cláudia: Maybe your town. No, no,
Richard: I'm on the west. I'm totally in the American
Cláudia: side. That's why it took me so long to understand it. Right
Richard: down through the tip of Newfoundland of Canada and then right through the Atlantic Ocean, bypassing completely the United States and all that. But taking a huge swath of Brazil is inside this line of latitude that marks what is being called the Age of Aquarius.
Yeah, and
Cláudia: this was foreseen by these Templars. This is so interesting. They went to the Pope and they asked the permission and the right to bring Christianity to the whole planet and before and beyond this line, as you mentioned here. So this was done, the Tratado de Tordesillas, as we speak in here. The Treaty of Tordesillas.
So all this piece of
Cláudia: land that we see now, it was unknown in the past by
Richard: the majority.
It was unknown.
It
Cláudia: was unknown, only known by the Templars that had the maps. This region of the land or the sea, but they didn't know, the other people didn't know what was there. And there was Brazil and Latin America.
Richard: So the Templars knew this and nobody else.
Cláudia: The Templars knew, the Templars knew. And they wanted to come in secret because they said, Europe is too corrupt for us to do something as we should do as the gospel of true gospel of Jesus, the true Christianity would do.
And you know something, Richard, if you start studying a little bit of the essence of Confucius, for instance, from China, it's so similar to Jesus Christ, to his teachings. If you see the teachings of Buddha, it's essentially so similar.
And if you study even Muslims, their codes of ethics and… Muhammad. Muhammad. It's also so… it's not something that you would say the differences are so big that they cannot come together.
And the same in
Richard: Judaism. If you follow the Ten Commandments, and if you diminish the amount of messages and writings that all those Jews added and added and added to the Old Testament,
Cláudia: if you go to the essence, which is the Ten Commandments, if we would follow the Ten Commandments, the world would be a paradise. Very clear. So if we get together what Jesus taught and what all these people know, even those who follow the Indian tradition, like the Mayan and the Incas and all those traditions, you get to one essence, which is the teachings of Jesus Christ.
This
Richard: is so incredible. In fact, I was reading a business book one time, Cláudia, written by a philosopher, and he said, in doing an enormous amount of research, that all of the religions and spiritual practices in the earth, they all have the same idea, which is sort of this golden rule is predominant in all of them. Do unto others as you would have them do
Cláudia: unto you, imagine it.
Exactly, exactly. If we lived by that,
Richard: we would have this… The paradise. Paradise now.
Cláudia: Yes, paradise now. So this is what we propose. Paradise Now. It's very ambitious. It's not impossible. No,
Richard: I wanted to make that link, actually, because if we think about it, sometimes I have the feeling I was talking with a Canadian listener to our programs and he was saying, you know, Richard, I'm so excited about what you're doing and I'm passing the book Liberation of the People around to everybody, but what can we do?
What can we do? It struck me that many people in the first world particularly are very linked to law and legislation and trying to resolve all of the myriad problems with this treaty and that agreement and this protection zone and all of these things in little ways. It's overwhelming. We can never resolve it that way. But what you're talking about and what Dr.
Keppe's science brings us is a universal solution to all of these problems. Can we
Cláudia: talk about that? Yes, because you know something? Everybody wants to do a kingdom, like an exoteric kingdom with an X. Yeah. Meaning one should have laws and external things, buildings, laws, behaviors, like external behaviors. And moral codes. But what Keppe proposes in his science is what the tradition, the Portuguese tradition, Portuguese speaking, which is Lusófono.
Nobody knows what Lusófono is. Yes, true. Like Anglophones, there are the Lusophones. Luso comes from Portugal. Portuguese is Luso. So the Lusófono tradition and culture, They
Richard: understand that a
Cláudia: true golden era or the era of Aquarium or the millennium or you may call it Fifth Empire, as they say. The Fifth Empire is the tradition of the old scriptures of Daniel, the prophet Daniel.
They spoke about the Fifth Empire, which would be the everlasting empire, which would be all universal and spiritual. So this Lusophone tradition knows that this kingdom will come from within. It's a kingdom built from the inner man to the outer world, and not the other way around. So if we want to build a true powerful, energetically powerful world, this must come from this incredible energy mankind, each human being has from within, from his inner self, which is where we can really be linked with God and get God's energy to our own benefit and the benefit of humanity and the planet and nature.
Richard: But a disinverted inner world, right? Which is where Keppe's science comes
Cláudia: in. No, no, no, no. How to get there? Why we have been living with our inner selves all these thousands of years, everybody, millions and billions of people having an inner life and even not acknowledging it. So, this is psychopathology, and this must be seen and addressed by the field of science, a true psychoanalytical science, which encompasses spirituality, philosophy, metaphysics, and that's what Keppe did.
So why do we have this chance now? Because Keppe discovered inversion and that people are upside down, innerly upside down. We have an inner upside down will. We want to have the pleasure of the evil things against ourselves, against our fellow man, all those so-called sins or pathologies like laziness, self-centeredness, materialism. Pathology of power, arrogance, all this. And this must be seen, acknowledged as the inverted way or the inverted me.
So if I disinvert myself and my will, immediately I will see how much I'm losing, how much sick I got and the society got because of this inversion. So everything is upside down. And as we say, doctors are against life. Religious people are against God. Lawyers are against justice.
Richard: So economists are against wealth. Teachers are against education.
Cláudia: And they don't know this.
They are not aware of this. This is mostly unconscious. Husbands, wives, they hate each other instead of being companions. It's not. They want to kill themselves. So parents are like the victims of their children and children are against parents. So this is due to this inversion. Now that we have
Richard: the chance to address this, we have a chance to have gradually a better place to live and reach one day the golden age.
Yeah, because how this happens, I think, is that as we begin to address these inversions inside us and we begin to disinvert that a little bit we then open ourselves to another energetic Consciousness. This sounds so New Age-y. I don't mean it to be that way. But somehow we capture reality in a different way. We see reality in a different way.
Cláudia: But you know, Richard, there are some New Agers that they have part of the truth with them.
And I understand that each person, each group has a part of the truth, and that we could see the common denominator, and we could get united under the Spirit of God. So the spirit of God is the common denominator because every religion or every person who does not belong to like a church or some people even that believe themselves as atheists but if they want justice if they want to do the right thing for themselves and the others what is fair, what is beautiful what is truthful those who can be a little bit humble we are in a common place.
We are already united, and we don't understand, we don't even realize this.
Richard: You've not said anything, and we haven't had a chance to talk about the Pope leaving the position. Does this fit into this?
I
Cláudia: think that it fits, because now they ask for a reformation, a reform. And if they don't do this reform in this direction, there will be no ecumenism
Richard: possible. In the direction
Cláudia: that you're talking about of the inner disinversion. The inner life, the disinversion, and the Spirit of God.
So if we stick to details, we will not get to the common denominator, which is the Spirit of God. And I see that I have friends that are coming. One was born and raised in the Mormon Church. Another one now presently is a Hindu, like Hinduist, and he sees a lot of good things coming from this part of the planet, this population in India.
And some are Buddhists, some are coming from evangelical or Protestant churches, and some are Catholic and some are nothing. Meaning, they are people with a good will. And people who have a good will, they have the Spirit of God in themselves. And this is what we need urgently. I understand that everybody who has a little bit of common sense understands that pedophilia is not good.
Even those who are pedophilic, they know within themselves that this is a sickness and should be addressed as a sickness. And we should see them as sick people. And they, in the churches, they formed an environment for those religious members that created, they create this inside of people. It's like an ideal place or ideal philosophy to create abnormal, perverted, sexually perverted beings.
Because they are taught to refuse a more normal kind of sexuality. And to see this as the devil's temptation or something inconvenient. And so then everything that is healthy inside of themselves is repressed, is denied. And they are led to become perverts. So what do they do now? They go and they put the finger and they condemn them and they say, you are sinners, you are the tumor, the cancer of the church.
But they created the cancer with their philosophies So I understand that there is a lot to be done, a lot, and they have to be a little bit humble and to accept what a true scientist have to say. Like, for instance, we have a lot to contribute to a more balanced kind of religion because we deal with the souls of people. We have dealing with this and we cannot separate the soul in terms of religion and the soul in terms of psychoanalysis.
This is the same person, it's the same soul, it's the same inner life. The same anxieties, the same desires, and the same things. So sin is the same as pathology, and sanity is the same as sanctity. So we should get together things, and now we have a science that is truly theological in the basis, it's universal for all religions, so they should take advantage from this science.
And it's out of ignorance and out of arrogance they don't do this because if they do this they will have the possibility of being much more tolerant with the other religious people with other religions or be really able to create an ecumenic ground and you know Brazil is like pointed out by many many people many many not only now but before, centuries ago, as this place were in the era of aquarium, or more or less around this era, something very beautiful should be spread throughout the world to have a better world.
Richard: Not only the religious people, but all groups of people can benefit from Keppe's science.
Cláudia: And so we are inviting you that are listening to our conversation. You have your own ideals. You have your own dreams of a better society, a better place. So we have a place to receive you, to welcome you, which is our Grande Hotel Trilogia, which is our hotel where we have a nice, natural, relaxed place for you to go and to see how we apply Analytical Trilogy to the practical life.
Richard: That is very beautiful to see. And it's applicable in many, if not all, living situations or societies, too. Norberto Keppe's Analytical Trilogy allows diverse groupings of people from a wide spectrum of beliefs and philosophies of life to join together to do something meaningful. And doesn't the thought of that make your insides vibrate? A great chance to find out more is at our International Congress of Analytical Trilogy, July 6th to 12th, 2013, here in Brazil.
That's our program for this week. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
