Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. There's a common misperception in many parts of the world that society is improving. Hey, we don't draw and quarter people in the public square anymore, goes that common wisdom. We've got central heating and watch on demand. Yeah, we do. We've also got very sophisticated killing machines. And for all our vaunted technological forensic wizardry, there are still some disturbingly unanswered questions about 9-11.
I could make a strong case for us not advancing much at all in some fundamental aspects of what it means to be human, especially if we compare ourselves to the first humans described in the folklore of all peoples on earth. Development of society from misery to relative abundance for all is more than a misconception. It's wrong in a fundamental sense because we come hardwired for peace and justice and goodness, and the hows and whys we act against that basic programming deserve more consideration.
We're good, but choose to act bad is very different from we're bad, but we're getting better. Why a better society isn't happening today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
We've been featuring some of our older Thinking with Somebody Else's Head programs recently, so much good material is available in our many programs done since late 2006.
And we have over 500,000 downloads now of the individual podcasts. But our station has many other elements, too, like excerpts from Norberto Keppe's books and various ads and promotional pieces about our work here that I'm hopeful you'll tune in to our full station as well as just downloading the podcast. That's the Stop Radio Network. Well, I made reference to 9-11 in the intro to the show, and maybe this needs more explanation.
The questions raised about the official story are pretty compelling in a well-done documentary produced by the Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth group, a large and loosely confederated group of technical professionals who raise many significant questions about the official 9-11 story. Not the U.S. Government engineered 9-11 as a false flag to take away our human rights type of questions, although that taking away rights part and lumping any questioners of the official 9-11 story in with the terrorists are extremely disturbing.
No, this group is focused on the official building collapse story, and they make a compelling technical case that the official story has big holes in it. It's pretty compelling viewing, and it will shine a light on a massive question. How, in the massive information frenzy that accompanies acts of atrocity, particularly in the U.S., can we be left with so many essential questions?
And even more important, how can those questions from such reputable sources be so ignored by a free media? It's enough to turn any thinking man, woman, or child into a conspiracy theorist, isn't it? Then we have Dr. Steve Pechnik, a former deputy secretary of state for three presidents, saying, stressing, in fact, that Osama bin Laden died in late 2001 of kidney disease.
So what's with this Rambo-like raid in Pakistan in 2011, and the surreptitious dumping of the supposed bin Laden's body into the ocean? Isn't that as crazy as shipping the World Trade Center debris, crime scene debris, by the way, to China? I just have the sinking conviction that we're not getting the story of what's going on from our media or government officials, or maybe any officials, for that matter.
Our channels of information, our institutions, all seem so corrupted that we have to take a step back and reconsider all this. Now, I know we Canadians are big believers in our government and political officials, so this is a hard one. And I'm not advocating belief in whatever conspiracy theories are out there, but I do subscribe to the notion that something is going on in the secret society meetings, the Bilderbergers, the Council on foreign relations, the round tables, and the Bank of International Settlements that we're not hearing about.
And the official stories of these tragic events seem orchestrated to further their New World Order agenda than serve truth and justice. So let's keep our eyes open. When we come back, let's dig in a little bit more with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and see if we can discover why a better society isn't happening. More to come when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns.
Home to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, healing through consciousness, analyzing the 1% and the conscious company.
Richard: The most original, contemporaneous writer in the world today, says the National Scientific Research Center in France. A genuine contributor to the intellectual treasury of civilization, as former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Gugassian. For these times of uncertainty and conflict comes a work of extraordinary vision, hope, and moral clarity.
Brazilian psychoanalyst and social scientist Norberto Keppe writes with wisdom and authority about the things that really matter. How to heal illness. How inverted science is leading the destruction of nature and what to do about it. Finding spirituality within. Structuring a truly just society. There are more than 3,000 books published worldwide every day. None are more important than these. The Books of Norberto Keppe.
Trilogical science leading us to a new world.
A divine society here on Earth. Kind of sounds like something cooked up by dreamers and mystics, doesn't it? An impossible dream. Well, not really. This coming July, an international group of scientists, thought leaders, and activists will gather for a week in the beautiful Brazilian countryside at the 19th International Conference of Analytical Trilogy to explore breakthroughs in the practical application of science, technology, and sustainable development emerging from the science of Analytical Trilogy founded by Dr.
Norberto Arquepi. At the heart of the event will be demonstrations and new discoveries concerning the Keppe motor, a revolutionary energy-saving motor which is up to 90% more efficient than traditional motors. You'll also explore the secrets and wide applicability of capturing and rescuing free and clean energy by tapping into a metaphysical dimension that's been ignored or misunderstood by contemporary science. You're invited to join us for the 19th International Conference of Analytical Trilogy July 6th through 13th in Camuquira, Brazil.
Hi, my name is Thorne, and I love listening to the Stop Radio Network. It helps me to start off my day in a really good mood.
Richard: The most relevant conversations in the world today are on the Stop Radio Network. Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
And we're doing lots of very nice things on our radio station recently, including some excerpts from Dr.
Keppe's amazing books read by Susan Berkley. Those are new features that we're having in there. Gilbert Gambucci has been producing his show on analyzing the 1%. And we have our old programs, Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and I, our old programs called Healing Through Consciousness, where we took phone calls from people and tried to help them with specific issues. That's a fascinating program. That's available in the archive section on our radio station.
And, of course, our signature program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, which we haven't done for a couple of weeks, and we're back to that now. So Cláudia is with me again. And, Cláudia, I just wanted to give you a starting place here. I was very interested in the situation in Boston yesterday. We have
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: a dear friend who lives in Boston. Before anything, good morning.
Good morning. Good morning, you.
Richard: No, no,
Cláudia: no, no, no.
Richard: Have you
Cláudia: forgotten your English? Yes. No, no. I
Richard: have been not
Cláudia: talking for three weeks with you
Richard: here, right? That's right.
Cláudia: Okay, so good morning or good day to
Richard: our listeners. Very nice. Yes, I was quite interested in the situation in Boston because these kinds of, we've been sort of expecting something to happen.
I've been sort of expecting something to happen for some time now, and now there's these two, at least two explosions and perhaps other bombs that were diffused in time. But I was mostly impressed or interested in Obama's presentation yesterday. And I say presentation rather than speech because it's like a planned or organized sort of way of speaking. These guys have both Bush after 9-11 and Obama after this.
But I was struck mostly by the sort of admission they always have in these situations that we will get to the bottom of this. We will find out who has done this and we will bring them to justice. This kind of rhetoric is what always happens. And I was struck. I felt uncomfortable with this presentation. And I was analyzing why did I feel kind of depressed actually after this.
Cláudia: Everybody feels like that, isn't it? Because we
Richard: can sense
Cláudia: that there are much more things hidden behind all these scenes and all this, like a theater and putting bombs here and there, and then
Richard: afterwards doing what they do, right? Exactly this. We don't know, because he said, we will get to the bottom of it. And I thought, no, you won't. You didn't get to the bottom of 9-11.
They never got to the bottom of Kennedy's assassination. And
Cláudia: we don't even, we are not even sure whether this body that they pretended was Osama bin Laden body. We don't even, we are not even sure if this Osama bin Laden was really him.
Richard: Yeah, there was an interesting video that Will was showing me yesterday. Will Lajeunesse was showing me from, I don't know, 2005 or 2006, I think.
One of the deputy secretaries of state of the United States was saying that Osama bin Laden died long before they reported that he had died. And, you know, these kinds of things, there's a lot of garbage out there in this conspiracy theory. I totally understand that. But there are so many questions about unanswered questions and fundamental questions that we have the feeling, I think, that these guys are speaking, but they're not saying anything and that there's nothing they're going to say that's going to help us to understand the world that we live in.
Cláudia: We know that, and this is official, United States debt is $16 trillion, right?
Richard: $16 trillion.
Cláudia: So this is a fact. And we also know that they are not having any program or any possibility of paying back or paying, being, how do you say this in English?
Richard: Paying the debt. Paying the debt.
Cláudia: It's going to be impossible. And how will United States government and people handle this totally bankrupt situation?
So this is something. This is a fact. Yes. And we see they don't get to anywhere because they can't go anywhere. They are in a dead end situation. Yeah. And instead of facing this, they create wars. They create rumors of war. Yeah. And they create terrorist attacks, and they create this, and they create that.
Richard: They take away rights. They create the NDAA and the Patriots Act that take away the rights of people to even protest or to even fight against this.
So it's obvious, isn't it? Yeah, it's
Cláudia: obvious. So I went for some consolation to Norberto Keppe, as I often
do. In this his book work
Richard: in capital he says right at the beginning he says i have long been aware of how difficult it is to single out humanity's one greatest problem. I wrote various books focusing on psychopathology and psychosomatic disorders and others on spirituality philosophy the history of thought sociology politics and economy enormous breadth of work he does.
But he goes on to say, yet the topic that is arousing the most enthusiasm and bringing about a psychosocial transformation is this last one, which deals with what I've termed sociopathology. I believe that I've now hit upon the central difficulty of the human species, the central cause of neurosis and of psychological and social imbalance. This question of sociopathology has a graphic here that shows this sociopathology psychopathology driving society and organizing the economic structure, political structure, religious structure, and scientific structure, and then the human psychopathology being affected in large part by this.
So maybe I thought maybe we could, let's try to focus some of Dr. Keppe's work in this area to bring some real hope to people that there is a science out there that explains and actually gives us a way to understand the
Cláudia: world exactly jones so
Richard: and
Cláudia: I'm sure this new world order that they are planning yeah is like a new world disorder because this is what we see more and more and more right so disorder here and there and and famine and and ecological destruction and injustice.
And the only sociological initiatives you see, you see a few here and there. In terms of NGOs, not all, because many NGOs are a cover-up for non-ethical attitudes, but there are a few NGOs and individuals that are trying to make the difference. But the more ethical they are, the less support they get in what they do. So we see that we have very little hope if we don't get back to the root of what happens all over.
And the root lies within the mind, if you want to say the mind of people, if you don't want to mention the inner lives or the souls of people, if we consider also the transcendent or spiritual dimension of humanity, we cannot leave this apart because theology and beliefs is like most of what make people do their choices is the reason people do their choices in reality either if they do on like because they have a faith in a god or a faith in in um in a philosophy if they have even a faith in in some ideology so faith is behind anything or everything faith is behind everything yeah.
So if it's a correct
faith or a false faith, a
Richard: fake faith, but faith is behind anything. You must believe in something in order to wake up in the morning, go to work. You must believe. They've shown this even in things as simple as athletics, Cláudia, that people who believe, doesn't matter what they believe is true or not, if they believe in something, they have more force to confront the difficulties and problems it takes to...
Play competitive sports even at that level so
Cláudia: and if you have a belief in something that is real even better because then you will not get the disillusion you will not get weak after a time you will have this reinforcement the good uh reinforcement of what you do and what you believe
Richard: and I think what I'd like to say about this Cláudia is in all of this that's going on in the world all of these difficulties and problems that are that are happening in the world we can see that uh many people although they know something's wrong are not questioning it at the fundamental level that you're talking about now and I think this is what's most worrying to me yeah is that I see that people say well yes I know there's this problem and that problem and this is not good and that's not good but somehow it's going to be okay and uh I was considering in my business class last night from Dr.
Keppe's book about why humanity is not healthy. And because our basic system of life is dishonest. And I think we really need to, as human beings, we need to face up to that fact that we have led ourselves to a place that is insupportable, non-sustainable. It's like the dead end. We're literally at the dead end. We can't go any further. How can you help us to put a perspective on that a little bit better, that we have reached the end of a way of being.
We have to make some significant fundamental changes, don't we?
Cláudia: I think that we have to bring here to the surface the intention that Keppe always had to waken up the individuals, to bring consciousness. Now let's speak a little bit about what this author, Leonard Mlodinow is writing on Subliminar, his book. Yes. And everybody's speaking about this, that 95% of what people do, they do in an unconscious level.
Right. And just 5% is linked to the cognition or cognitive capacity or conscious capacity. So let's go back to this concept that the brain is what leads the mind and not the other way around, and this is inverted. So when Keppe mentions in his books for so long time already that people don't use their brains properly, that people are mostly unconscious of what they do, 95% of humanity is unconscious of the true reasons of what they do, the choices they do, the reasons they do, the choices they make.
So all this Keppe has been writing about, And this Modlinovna... I was explaining this, starting from the inductive scientific attitude of starting from the brain and mapping the brain and going to the mind, from the lesser to the bigger.
Richard: The same mistake everybody's making.
Cláudia: Yeah, so he's verifying, in fact, and this is useful, that most of the choices people do, they do under a subliminal...
So subliminal in motivation,
Richard: not to their conscious mind.
Cláudia: Yes, but this is not something that should be like this or must be like this because there is a variation, a very large variation between some people. From one person to the other person, how much they use of their cortex or their cognitive brain or conscious brain. And so what I'm trying to bring here, Richard, is that people don't want to have consciousness of anything.
They want to be unconscious. They want to be alienated. They don't use properly their brain. And that's why more and more our brains are becoming like animal brains. We are becoming more and more like monkeys and not the other way around because we use less and less our brains and our consciousness. So there are some movements or some methods that are being launched lately in an attempt to bring more consciousness to people.
Richard: Let's get to that in a sec, Cláudia. I want to take a break here because I want to make sure people have an opportunity to listen to the various promos that we do in between our programs. And this is important too because we have a conference coming up. We have very important books and information about those will come up in our break.
And we'll be back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network to continue this discussion of consciousness and the so-called unconsciousness. And Keppe's views on this are really, really earth-shattering. Back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Tuesday in New York, and Gwen's headache is now five days old. Wednesday in London, and Ronald's left the hospital for the streets again.
It's Thursday in Mogadishu, and angry students are protesting against corruption. Whether the illness is physical, psychological, or social, Norberto Keppe's The Origin of Illness is a book that gets to the bottom of it and offers a solution.
Cláudia:
In the United States, there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985, Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power.
Cláudia: The New World Order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles.
Richard: 28 years later, Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it.
Cláudia: They are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean.
The
Richard: people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic. The powerful hated him.
Cláudia: They were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried, and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: You are never, ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe.
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. Here's your host, Rich Jones, and special guest, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Richard: We are back. The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. My name is Richard Lloyd Jones. I'm with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. And I always hesitate to cut you off, Cláudia, because you launch into these things that are so fascinating.
But I know that the thought that you're going to embark on now is going to take some time, so I wanted to make sure we had this full block to develop this idea. So you're talking about the new techniques or the new ideas that are around in psychological, neurological science about consciousness.
Cláudia: Yeah. So in Portuguese, they say consciência plena. Probably in English, they say plain consciousness or total consciousness.
Richard: Complete consciousness.
Cláudia: Complete consciousness. Consciência plena, consciência total. But this is not so. This is just a part of it because people are encouraging people to stop acting like in a robotic way, automatic way, as if they turn on
Richard: this. Push a button and react.
Cláudia: And how do you say this in English? When you… Turn a key? When you drive your car and you just…
Richard: You drive on
Cláudia: automatic.
In pilot, like an
Richard: automatic pilot. Yeah, you're on cruise control.
Cláudia: "You're not even thinking that's how we live so we go like running fast towards somewhere that we don't even know where or
Richard: what or running away
Cláudia: from" so this is what Keppe says and this is very important because when we want to bring us back to consciousness we must go to inside our inner lives stop a little bit and think "what am I feeling now what am I thinking now, but not only this, how am I breathing or how am I my body doing?"
No, but also what am I feeling? What am I thinking? And what the purpose of what am I thinking or feeling? What is the cause, the deeper causes? Metaphysical questions. In order to have full consciousness or total consciousness, one must go to the metaphysical level, the deep philosophical level which are which is to look for the primal causes of things not only to stay here and now but go behind and see why and why and why you know so this courage to look the plain truth the total truth this requires a lot of sure honesty ethics and courage and I
Richard: think it takes You mentioned, I think, a theological perspective at the beginning, because if we're looking at our motivations as organic or stimulation from the brain, we're missing a huge part of the human
Cláudia: experience.
Because we are also led by subliminal promotion, publicity, as they quote here in an article saying that when they sell wines in a winery, if they put French music, the French wine is sold. If they play German music, the German wine is sold.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg of something much, much bigger and much more complex. And now going back to this bombing of Boston, the Boston bombing, and see what happens afterwards.
And seeing what happened afterwards, you will know the intention and what is behind this bombing. So you will know after a while what happened. Like September 11, what happened inside the United States after that. All freedom was taken away, intentionally taken away.
Richard: Bush got
Cláudia: more power. So what is this patriotic act? What does it have to do with patriotism? It's taking away.
It's taking
Richard: away the patriotic feelings of people. And what the country was founded on, freedoms and rights. Yeah.
Cláudia: So you see the cynicism of this. And so if you are afraid to see more, to look more in depth, to have full consciousness or total consciousness or plain consciousness or whatever, you have to have guts to look and see what are the true reasons behind all this.
And many Americans are totally scared of seeing what is happening in their country and what their country is bringing the world to. So in order to have courage to look and to see the primal causes of everything, one must have the courage to see our own primal causes of everything. And one of my classes, I was explaining that since the Abraham times, when Abraham… Not
Richard: Abraham Lincoln, but…
Cláudia: No, the Jews and
Richard: those peoples, the promised land and
the
Cláudia: promised paradise for these people, and the people of God, and Moses bringing the Ten Commandments.
Why so many years and thousands of years and nothing happens? Why? Is it a lie? Or people do not fully accept to put in practice what was told in the simple Ten Commandments. And the reason this happens is because we are upside down in our ethics. We don't want goodness. We are against all these Ten Commandments. That's why they perform all these ten sins in hidden places.
When they are hidden from other people or when they are, like, in a group. But you can't do this in the open. So in order to perform all these actions against life and goodness and beauty and truth, if you are going against your fellow man, if you are going against... Against God if you're going against life. You have to masquerade this. You cannot do this like at open and being accepted.
So that's what is happening. And
Richard: if we want to think about how this can be perpetrated, this kind of activity you're talking about, then we have to look at the unconsciousness of the human being who doesn't want to see.
Cláudia: Yeah, 95% unconscious. So how come humanity is living 95% unconscious of their inner reasons? Great question. And this Mlodinow good contribution is to see and to prove that human brains presently is just functioning 5% of their capacity.
So this is dangerous because people act like animals, unconscious animals. Sure.
Richard: And, you know, I think we could say that we human beings know we have consciousness of what is correct. Because when we see even in these kinds of horrible events, when we see heroism like the firemen and these kinds of people going
there and helping people, we feel these guys are the heroes.
Richard: Because they are doing the behavior, which is to help other people. Now, we don't have to wait for crisis to help other people. This is so obvious. But it's inside the human spirit to help, to contribute. So when we don't create a society based on helping and supporting, we are totally going against who we are in essence. And this
Cláudia: is making us sick and crazy.
And this is so natural, so instinctive,
Richard: Richard. Yes, I know, Cláudia.
Cláudia: This is so instinctive. This is our natural structure. We are not speaking about religion here. We are not speaking about theology. What we can say is that our human structure, natural structure, was supposed to be good, beautiful, and truthful. And this is scientific. And if we are not, we create diseases, mental, organic, social.
It's not working. It's really not working. Come on. We have to open up our eyes to open and to have plain consciousness. We have to have full consciousness, to have courage to see the full truth. Because if we don't, we will not have future in front of us. So everybody's feeling that something is really, really wrong, but they are not courageous enough to stop a little bit and start questioning what is behind this.
So people say, look where the money is, and then you will know where the criminal is. Follow
Richard: the money, sure.
Cláudia: Follow the money or follow the results, what the results are
Richard: from these actions. If you see the results, you will know the intentions. And going back to what Jesus said in his time, see the fruits and you will know the quality of the tree, what the tree is.
So see the fruits. So this is so simple, so logical. But we don't pay attention to it. We don't. It's so incredible. And in Keppe's work, you can see that he talked in his book, Liberation of the People,
Cláudia: about calling on all of us to bring about the greatest revolution that mankind has ever experienced, to turn society around, to disinvert it. And we must do this having consciousness and full consciousness.
And so some people say, where do we have to go? Do we need to hit the button and learn from suffering and pain? I say, my God, suffering and pain never brings consciousness. Never, ever, in itself. Because if it would, people in the slums, they would be more wise. Criminals inside prisons, they should be more ethical and more virtuous. And what we see is that from suffering, a lot of suffering can come as a consequence and like endure, endure, endure more and more and more suffering.
So what we see is that some people, for some inner choice or reason, they can accept consciousness and this inner voice of ethics and say, come on, now you have to change. So this is this inner call from consciousness and from goodness that can change people.
Richard: Which the greatest human beings have always called upon. You
Cláudia: don't need to suffer in order to be wise.
This is a total inversion. Jesus didn't have to die on the cross in order to save us. He had to die because of us, not because of him, of his choice. He chose to be loyal to God and to humanity and to love. But if we were not so criminal, he would never have to endure what he had to. So this is something that goes on and on with other virtuous people.
They didn't have to be sacrificed in order to be heroes. They were heroes because of what they did of good. And the sacrifice is like a stain on humanity and the deeds of criminals.
Richard: Beautiful what you said. I often say to my students, students say, oh, but I had to go through that experience in order to learn something. I say, but when you started that experience, didn't you have a voice inside that told you, oop, be careful here, look out.
Cláudia: Yeah, before
Richard: anything. Yeah, but you ignored that, and then you go through the situation where you end up in huge pain, and now suddenly, now you have to change, because either this or die.
Cláudia: And if this would be always like this, that pain or suffering would bring consciousness, humanity would be now
Richard: in its
Cláudia: most incredible. All this wars, all this suffering, all this killing, all this criminality, all this insensitivity.
Richard: Insane behavior.
Cláudia: Insane.
Richard: Psychopathic behavior. Yeah.
Cláudia: What is this for?
Richard: What is this for?
Cláudia: It's as if we would say, no, Satan is useful or evil is useful. It's not. I can tell you, evil is never, ever useful for anything. It's totally useless. Evil is always useless. And we
Richard: never get to goodness by going through evil.
Cláudia: Yeah. So it's not necessary
Richard: for you to have a back pain in order to have a good back afterwards.
To
Cláudia: care for your health, yeah. You don't have to break your leg in order to have a healthy leg. You don't need to have an ulcer in order to have a healthy stomach afterwards. This is totally insane. This is totally inverted. So I'm enthusiastic today because I find my God when humanity is going to wake up. And accept to know the true deeper causes of everything.
You don't need a religion. Just use your brains properly.
Richard: And can I tell you, you will find much support in the work of Norbert Tocchetti in this regard. If you are prepared to be brave,
Cláudia: to investigate
Richard: like this is required, if you are prepared to be brave, yes, there is much work that can help you in our radio programs, television programs, and books.
So please do search out that kind of thing.
Cláudia: And we have our conference coming up in July where people can get more information and really start to feel how they can be part of this new consciousness. And to understand why they don't want to be part of it and understand why they reject the good part of life and understand their rejection also for something that could really make the difference.
Because everybody must understand that they don't want to make a difference. They are very satisfied in their destruction. I'm sorry to say that, but this is the truth.
Richard: Why we reject the good part of life. Yeah, that's a tough one to see. But this is what psychological science is showing us today. That we're all involved in some way in creating the problems we see in the world.
As always, we love to hear from you about this stuff.
Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is a production of the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil.
