Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and this is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Check out a modern photography exhibition, and you'll often find disturbing pictures of conflict and misery, along with the usual justifications of, hey man, that's just the reality. We all remember those generation-defining images of the naked girl running down a dirt road in Vietnam, the young student defying the tanks in Tiananmen Square, the vulture stalking the child in Ethiopia.
You. And it's easy, in the face of those stark images, to think that this does indeed show reality. I'm not so sure about that. If we look around us, we can certainly see enough disgrace and horror to make the argument that life is suffering. But a humble psychoanalyst and social scientist in Brazil is forcing us to rethink all that. Evil, states Norberto Keppe, is just the destruction of good, not the natural state.
And that profound truth, although hinted at throughout history, has never been entrenched as a core pillar of any scientific philosophy, until now. What a normal life should be today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm very happy with how our Stop Radio Network is growing. More and more listeners are finding their way to our 24-7 streaming channel. We stream through iTunes in radio stations, news talk radio stations at iTunes and on our site at stop radio.org and healing through consciousness.com and to your mobile device now through the free tune in app.
Do pass along our links and shows to any in your network that you think will benefit. That's how we grow. In our program today we'd like to lay out a defining difference between our show and most maybe all others, and between our science of Analytical Trilogy and all other sciences, too.
And that is the metaphysical difference inherent in the science of Analytical Trilogy, which is what we base our shows on. And this vital differential is this, where many philosophies see destruction, the destructive force, as an essential part of the natural state of all things. Keppe abides by another metaphysical view. Evil, destruction, is the absence of life and goodness, not the opposite necessary for balance and life dynamics.
I know it sounds too simple to be so fundamental, but it means that we have a new starting place for understanding life. We are not essentially a mix of good and evil, a cosmic balancing act between the forces of creation and the forces of destruction, but instead can begin to consider all corruption and disease and degradation as unnatural, as attitudes and practices against goodness, not inevitable and necessary aspects of life.
The horror and injustice we see around us, then, would be a reflection not of the nature of reality, but of our destruction of reality by our destructive desires to destroy and wreak havoc. That's a much more serious problem, but it's something I think humankind must begin to address if we have any hope of getting to the bottom of our problems. Because if our issues and difficulties come from a basic human stance against the inherent goodness, then all the programs and initiatives we embark on can have no hope of success unless this is addressed.
They'll just be tantamount, as the saying goes, to "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." It is exactly this holistic metaphysical view that's missing in the media coverage today, which drowns us in factoids with no cohesive defining narrative. It's like we know all the batting averages of the Major League Baseball players but have no idea how to play the game.
This is something we work hard to remedy on our Stop Radio Network and which we'll address directly today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. What a normal life should be when Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues in just a
Susan Berkley: moment.
Richard: Some governments already admit that life on earth will be extinct in a few years.
This is not a certainty. The human being does destroy himself and destroy the world in which he lives. This is called inversion and so far it is unconscious. But if we wake up now there's still time to save life on earth. Those who ignore this and do nothing to STOP the Destruction of the World are helping to destroy it.
In the United
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: States there is a hidden government.
Richard: In 1985 Norberto Keppe published an explosive analysis of the pathology of power. "The
Cláudia: new world order that they are trying to implant goes totally against ethical principles."
Richard: 28 years later Liberation of the People is still the most relevant book available that exposes our inverted socioeconomic structure and who's responsible for it. "They
Cláudia: are like sharks and you are like fishes in an ocean."
Richard: The people's reaction to Keppe's book was enthusiastic.
The powerful hated it. They
Cláudia: were able to do a master cover-up.
Richard: Norberto Keppe's book was buried and the warning went out to the media.
Cláudia: "You are never ever to mention the work of Norberto Keppe."
Richard: Now, Norberto Keppe's timely book is available again. For your free download of Norberto Keppe's Liberation of the People, go to liberationofthepeople.org.
Susan: The program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Here's your host, Rich Jones, and special guest, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Richard: Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are on the Stop Radio Network, Richard Lloyd Jones, and Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco has joined us again. I'm always happy about that. But, Cláudia, last week we sort of launched into an interesting topic, which I think we'll follow up on today, which was why society is not improving.
We were sort of talking about that, that we've reached an impasse and we're not going any further. And so in thinking about this after our recording last week, I was working on some classes with my students about this idea of how do we fix our society? Because this is the thing that people don't understand. When people look at the situation in the world, they see problems in every area and think it's like overwhelming.
How are we going to solve that? So we were talking in my business English class last night about good action, about doing good as like a strategy, if you want to call it that, for how we could improve our world. And then it would be something that becomes like a resonant point between people where many groups around the world are focused on trying to do good and contribute to society.
And this would create like an environment where goodness would happen almost naturally or would come from that. So it's not so much that we need to change every law, work in every area to reorient it. Of course, that will have to happen, but it's much more
Cláudia: resonant. This mentality, Richard, which is a schizophrenic mentality that was developed mostly by the inductive science that works from the lesser to the bigger, from the particulars, from details, from specifications, from the consequential things, like what is a consequence and not what is the cause and the essentials.
Like a symptom and not a… Yes, exactly. Or even the particular things like now, presently, the disciplines you study in school, it's all particulars. So people go from like an induction kind of research. They start from the specific example, like the minor thing or the particular, and then they try to get to an universal conclusion, which is the universals. So they don't do something that, like Keppe mentions, that must be dialectic.
Our mind, our cognitive mind, should work in both directions. We have our universal concepts, like truth, like beauty, like goodness, like love, like justice, like what is natural. This non-materialistic, non-sensorial, abstract world of concepts, pure concepts, pure ideas, as Plato mentioned, that we have concepts inside of our minds that are pure concepts. And we should build our science and our world in accordance to this world and not try to dismantle or to contradict or to deny the value of the universals using specific so-called scientific examples.
Because when you deal with particulars, one case, another case, you can also find exceptions or distortions, especially in the sensorial world. There are many distortions, many pathologies. And when people start claiming that, that specific situation, that specific attitude. The problem or whatever is in itself a reality, right? And not considering that this may be a pathology. So they start denying the value of the universal, absolute truths.
Like, for instance, we were talking last week about the functioning of the brain. Yeah. If you start from the lesser, from the physical, and go and try to explain the bigger.
Richard: Which they do all the time.
Cláudia: And start considering the real human being, the real nature of human being is to be just 5% conscious and 95% unconscious. So they find out that this is the case in the majority of the human beings presently.
But this doesn't mean that the regular or the normal human being should be like this. They don't consider that this may be a pathology. Like another example, envy is something that you find in everybody. So does this mean that envy is good? Envy must be present? Envy is a reality? Well, it is a reality, but it is a pathological reality and must be dealt
Richard: as such.
Keppe talks about this as the difference between essence and existence, doesn't he? In
Cláudia: essence, we are
Richard: good. In existence, we are bad. But that does not mean that the existence that we have is the way we are by nature, right?
Cláudia: We should be by nature, genetically speaking, much better than what we are. Yeah, this is clear. Our values, our systems, our social systems, the world, the way it is organized with its inverted laws lead us to a crazy life.
This crazy life is not normal.
It's not a fatality. This could and should be changed, and we would get back to a more normal, natural life.
Richard: Yeah, what we should be. And, of course, this comes then, the difference between evolution and corruption, so
Cláudia: these kinds of things. So we are going backwards and not having evolution. I
Richard: was talking exactly about that in the intro to our program last week.
And I was watching on the news last night a Republican politician in the United States calling for torturing this boy that they've captured, you know, to try and find out more information. From like justifying this and he was saying in his twitter feed uh "who wouldn't want to torture this guy" and I said I was thinking well I wouldn't and you know Cláudia why you know what's so interesting about these kinds of situations.
Why do people want to go down to the worst aspects of the human being and call that natural and not look to the experiences with with Jesus and with Well, if you see
Cláudia: what people are taught since they are very young age, they are taught to be aggressive, to kill people, those games, the movies, the adult life.
They are not born like this, but they learn to be like this.
Richard: So let's talk about this universals then that you're bringing as opposed to focusing only on the particulars. Our world of science particularly is very particularized. It looks at everything as a – if you want to find the source of creativity, they look in the brain. And this
Cláudia: can create enormous deviations.
Yeah, sure. Enormous deviations. Like, for instance, Richard, a scientist, Emilio Ferrer, and his colleagues in the University of California in Davis, they discovered in an experiment they did, and this is interesting, people in love. If they are placed in some distance from one another, but they cannot touch each other nor to talk. Or see? Well, maybe they can see each other. Maybe they can see, all right, okay.
Richard: This is not mentioned here in this article.
Okay. They
Cláudia: say, after a while, the rhythm, the respiratory rhythm, And the heartbeat of those couples very rapidly entered in synchrony, like resonating. They resonate. And just to check, they mixed the couples. And when the two individuals were not from the same couple, their hearts and nor their respiratory patterns would be the same. So they got in dyssynchrony or in dissonance. This
Richard: is quite phenomenal, isn't it?
Cláudia: And the normal, like in order to have energy, to energize, you must have resonance. And this is a phenomenon in physics. Where there is dissonance, there is entropy and destruction. So this experiment shows that only where there is resonance, there is health, natural development, good things and energy, life impulses. Impulses and where there is not love there is dyssynchrony dissonance and these people are not hating each other.
Imagine if they were in inside of a field of hatred even worse it would be even worse. So our organisms are not having a good beating in their hearts. We're
Richard: not breathing normally how we could and how we should. We're probably not thinking or feeling. We're not thinking because we are in dissonance with each other. All humanity is in dissonance, mostly all humanity.
Even couples, they get married and then after a while they are wanting to kill each other. Yeah, like enemies, exactly.
Cláudia: So imagine the impact this has in our health.
Richard: I can totally imagine this. I mean, if you think about when you feel good in life, when you feel healthy and happy, it's a form of resonance. You're resonating with you feel better about other people, feel better about your work.
And you
Cláudia: feel energetic. You feel
Richard: energy to do things. You have the total amount of energy.
It's incredible. When you feel
Cláudia: bad, you feel a little bit sick or something. The first thing you notice is you don't have any energy anymore. Yes, yes.
Richard: So energy is so linked to this, and I notice this when I'm working with my students all the time. The more sort of caring I have for them, the more I enjoy being with them, the more energy I have.
It's a phenomenon.
Cláudia: And you can bring them to your rhythm.
Richard: This is for
Cláudia: sure. If they are open and accept you, if they are not on purpose in your class to harm you or to envious, Sometimes if you have just one student that is too envious, too pathological They can destroy all the resonance of the
Richard: room. This is totally
Cláudia: true. An enterprise, a company It can be destroyed by just one person who is
Richard: in the synchrony.
You know, I have a list of my students. And as I look through, I find myself thinking Oh, I hope she doesn't come today.
I hope he
Cláudia: doesn't come today. Literally, I can feel myself thinking. And when they don't come, I feel better. Yes, and everybody feels
Richard: better. Everybody, yeah.
Cláudia: Now, when Sofie Bergqvist, one of our teachers here, she came from Sweden to be trained in trilogy. She used to say, "the thing I like the most in STOP the Destruction of the World Association is that you are not interested only in fixing forests and cleaning polluted waters.
Richard: Saving the dung beetle."
Cláudia: Yes, or dealing with the garbage or this or that, because these are particulars. These are symptoms of a pathological world, and the worst pathology is above the symptoms. So the true causes of this rely on the psychological and spiritual, the energetic world, which is mostly invisible, but not less strong and
Richard: important. So
Cláudia: going back to what Jesus said, "when two or more people get together in my name, I will be there."
So what does this mean? When two or more people get together with the intention to do good and to love the fellow man and to love God, well, goodness will be there. Life will be there. What
Richard: a thing to resonate with. We're back in a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network to continue our discussion of resonance and the importance of looking at this global, having this global view of our problems.
So important. Back in just a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Richard: Tuesday in New York, and Gwen's headache is now five days old. Wednesday in London, and Ronald's left the hospital for the streets again. It's Thursday in Mogadishu, and angry students are protesting against corruption.
Whether the illness is physical, psychological, or social, Norberto Keppe's The Origin of Illness is a book that gets to the bottom of it and offers a solution.
This is Richard Lloyd Jones.
The scientist whose work orients us all here on the Stop Radio Network is called Dr.
Norberto Keppe, and his science is called... Analytical Trilogy. It's an analytical science that touches all areas of human endeavor. Keppe has new economic proposals that will lead us to a just society. Educational approaches that unblock our creativity so we learn more quickly. Psychosomatic health perspectives that clarify the root causes of our health problems and then treat them.
And a revolutionary technological philosophy that has led to the Keppe motor, an innovative magnetic motor that's up to 90% more efficient than traditional motors. It truly is the science for a new, just, and sustainable society. And we're going to share the magnitude of this science with the world at our International Congress of Analytical Trilogy, coming up July 6th to 13th, 2013. I'd like to invite you right now to join us in beautiful Brazil.
There will be a great energetic wave you can join, July 6th to 13th, 2013.
Love to see you there. Join us.
Norberto Keppe, and there are many exciting applications of his work occurring in Brazil and numerous other locations around the world.
This includes language classes, translation services, psychology sessions by phone or Skype, and the new energy solutions proposed by the Keppe Motor.
Now back to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network.
Richard: We are back Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network, Richard Lloyd Jones, Cláudia Bernhardt-Rasheko, discussing in depth Norberto Keppe's beautiful work.
You were talking about Sofie Bergqvist, one of our teachers.
Cláudia: This is also the thing I love most about Trilogy. It's this universal view that we take about things, Cláudia. You hated communities before you came here.
Richard: That's right. You hated.
Cláudia: You're a huge averse. You hated groups. Right? And many people hate groups.
Hated might
Richard: be a little strong, but yeah, okay.
Cláudia: Yeah, I remember this. I
Richard: avoided this, yes.
Cláudia: Yeah. And when people come, they say, how come you can still be together in this group after 30 or 40 years? Good question. So what is the secret? The secret is the psychosociotherapy, which is applied to every member of the group. And how is this? So when people say, okay, I want to have an experience in Brazil, I want to be there, I want to work in Trilogico Ecological Vila, we have a campus for our free university in Cambuquira, so I want to go there.
But many times they don't understand what they need to do a trilogical analysis before they come even. Why? Because the members of this group must be in synchrony in their psychological life. They must be in resonance. They must be resonating with similar intentions, similar concepts, similar attitudes, so they can take the best of their experience.
And they don't destroy the harmony of the whole work. So we cannot just let people come in without having this psychological attunement with the spirit of this work. So that's why we require the person who wants to come and to stay and to work here for a while, to have an experience, whatever, be trained or study, they have to do analysis. Start before, even before they come.
They start by Skype, they start by telephone. Telephone so they start getting in tune with this universal concept beautiful because you
Richard: know it's not a matter of you saying well
Cláudia: I'm a I can speak native English I can come and teach in your language schools. Yes okay that's that's a particular yeah and that's a particular. So what can I do I can teach a particular I can drive it's a particular I can work with ecological constructions permaculture it's a particular I
Richard: can do a radio program
Cláudia: yes and I can play
Richard: a musical instrument
Cláudia: I can cook.
It's all particulars. And these particulars can be better done if you have an energy, a psychological energy, that is more in harmony with nature, with the trilogical spirit. So that's how we have been managing to stay with this group and doing things together for a similar cause.
Richard: Well, hang on a second. Let me take this outside just our trilogical group, which is a fascinating example and offers many solutions for people.
In the society, then, it must be the same thing. If we have particular skills, that's fantastic, and we need to develop those to the highest level of our ability. But it needs to fit inside a universal framework. It needs to be related to what it is to be a human being working together on the planet for some purpose. Yes, and you
Cláudia: see that this is really universal because people come from any country.
And if they are in tune with this analysis, with these ideals, with this philosophy, with these concepts, they are totally
Richard: in harmony. Now, I don't mean they become angels. No. No. And that's why they have to do analysis all the time, like every week and having the groups, because the tendency is to… Revert.
Cláudia: To
Richard: revert, to slip. To slip back, to revert back, yes, yes.
Cláudia: And so that's why we have to be careful all the time and taking, like, conscientizing, becoming conscious of the psychopathology, the intentions we have because we are upside down, because our genetics is. Now, let me go back to a concept you brought, existence and essence. When we were, like, created or by nature, by the true nature, we were better beings. We had better genetics.
Yeah. So wrong attitudes or negative attitudes can destroy genetics, like mothers who smoke, mothers who drink, mothers who take drugs, medical drugs.
Children can be born with severe illnesses or congenital defects. But also, not only physical bad habits, but also psychological bad habits. You can see a couple with a very good mother, loving mother, and a crazy father. The child can be born with severe problems. Psychological. Psychological. Emotional.
Susan: Emotional, physiological problems. Because this comes with the genetics. So this
Cláudia: can be like lower down in the scale of health and perfection, but it can also, with a good and right philosophy and a good environment and good habits and good intentions and a good philosophy of life, it can improve.
It
Richard: really can improve. I remember a story about a man from Finland who was abandoned by his mother. He and his sister were abandoned in the forest, left to die, and he managed to survive. They went to a home and were taken in by a farmer, and the farmer gave them a home, not so much love, but a form of love, of course.
And this man was very, very angry in his life, but he made a decision as he was a young man when he was starting to get very sick. The doctor said, "look, you have to change your point of view." And he made a decision to try and help people. And he said he became a therapist. He wrote a book, and he became quite famous in Finland.
And he made his decision to try to work to help people, and he cured himself of his hate, and he now has forgiveness for his mother and all these things. But I was thinking about that, that somehow by his will, he made a decision to not be affected by what had happened to him and to be a good person anyway, to try to help.
Cláudia: By his ethics, he disinverted his will, and he was able to get back to health and be useful and helpful for his fellow man.
Richard: So he used to say to people, people say, "look, I don't care what excuse you have for having a bad life."
You can't have a worse situation than I had. So it's very powerful because he's saying, "look, if I did it, what are you complaining about?"
Cláudia: It's like Viktor Frankl. He spent four years in the concentration
Richard: camp. In Auschwitz, I think, Cláudia.
Cláudia: And when some Jews came to him and playing victims and not wanting to work, he said, "you don't come here to tell me this.
Go back and do something useful. Go back to work." You
Richard: said on the weekend in a very interesting teleclass, you said that from Dr. Keppe's psychoanalytical methodology, he wanted to study the cause of human and social suffering and how to correct it. And then you said, "and what did he find at the core of our problematic?" Yeah. "He found an enormous theomania."
Cláudia: Yes.
In reality, he started with the traditional schools of psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. He was invited because of this enormous capacity to heal and help people that everybody saw this.
In his practice in the Hospital das Clinicas, people invited him to go to Vienna and to study more in-depth the traditional schools of psychoanalysis and psychotherapy. Freudian, Kleinian, Wilfrid Bien, Viktor Frankl, Igor Caruso, the most important schools of psychotherapy. Even psychosynthesis, the creator, Asagioli, creator of psychosynthesis, was always asking Keppe, come to Florence, to my institute and work with me because I find your work remarkable.
But then, after studying all these theories, he found out that the practice, the method of psychoanalytical method was good, it was incredible. Freud was a genius, but the theories were not good. He found out that he could not help psychotic, neurotic people through the Oedipus complex or through these sexual theories of neurosis. So he needed to find out a way to be more helpful.
And he went to get some tools from philosophy, metaphysics, the old Greeks, and from his theological concepts as well, but mostly from his clinical practice. He attended dozens, hundreds of clients, and he started to research and see, but what is really inside of human beings, inside of us, that is hindering us to be in fullness? What is hindering the human being to be healthy to be happy as we see in the American constitution we have the right of the pursuit of happiness.
This is incredible. So if we have this even in the constitution of the United States it's something that should be even official in our lives not only a hidden wish inside of us yeah this
Richard: we have
Cláudia: the right to be happy
Richard: that we need to be happy this is
Cláudia: the nature of human beings.
Richard: Yes but you said that he found something he clarified something what was
Cláudia: it because the other theories weren't working what did he discover.
He discovered through the metaphysical studies that we get sick because we deny the goodness beauty and truth that were in we were endowed by our creator or by birth if you can say that. So evil is the deny or the absence of good so illness is the absence of health as well and neurosis psychosis organic illnesses are the denial of a healthy and happy human being.
So what is wrong inside of us? What is wrong? So through the old German thinkers and psychiatrists and all these studies and through the practice with his clients, he started to realize that we suffer from an inversion. Like we see everything upside down. We created like a black and white thing so the white world the white reality the white life would be the true life beautiful truthful and good life but we live in upside down like we live in a shadow we live we are a shadow beings we have a shadow inside of us that we do everything in in opposition to what is good beautiful and truthful and this this is not easy to explain in a podcast or in a few classes or even in a course but we can see that we adopt an attitude against everything that comes from god or comes from a supposed creator the reason of our lives.
This was confirmed in the practice through schizophrenic patients, epileptic patients, paranoid people, neurotic people, people suffering from organic diseases, that deep down, unconsciously, they were totally against the very source of life. And if we don't focus, if we don't see the spiritual cause, which is the deepest cause of all, The first major cause, which is
Richard: an opposition, an aversion to our creator, to the reason we are here.
So
Cláudia: if we don't address this, we cannot go any far in
Richard: our psychotherapy. We can't really solve any problem.
Cláudia: No, no, no.
Richard: The more I study here in Brazil at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy, the more I see how important is Norberto Keppe's science of psychosociopathology. In any discussion about problems and solutions, We need a more complete metaphysical view. Otherwise, we just wind up debating and arguing over opinions.
The importance of this overarching philosophy of life can't be overstated. And this is the value of Nerva Tokepi's science.
You've been listening to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Stop Radio Network. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones.
