Hello and welcome to our program. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. We are broadcasting on the Positive World Radio Network these days and available in a myriad of other ways, too, including iTunes.
We are, I guess, firmly in the alternative media camp, part of the long tail.
And that makes me think of the role of our show. And expanding out from that, what the role of all media should be. Jefferson was a strong proponent of a free press as being the best instrument for enlightening the mind of man and improving him as a rational, moral, and social being. Wow. Bill Moyers, that great American journalist, said there's no more important struggle for democracy than ensuring an independent and free media.
Exactly what seems to be missing today. Media has become, to some, a circus, but to most of us, a sideshow. Because it doesn't tell us what's going on. Let's address that today. Liberation of the People, going beyond materialism, power, and media manipulation on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are a rather revolutionary show, I believe, and we would love you to join us in this revolution of liberating the people.
Our Facebook page is up, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, just getting started there, so join us and join the conversation. Joneshealing at gmail.com, my personal email for this program. Have you been following what's going on at the Bilderberg meeting, what has been going on, this meeting's over now, as I'm doing this program in St. Moritz, Switzerland? This year, the British Chancellor of the Exchequer, President of the European Central Bank, the Head of Canada's Central Bank, the Queens of the Netherlands and Spain, Crown Prince of Norway, Representative of the Rothschild Banking Empire, Finance ministers, heads of state, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, executive chairman of Google, the LinkedIn guys, commander of the American Military Cyber Command.
What are they doing behind closed doors? This is something we almost never hear in the media. There's a little bit more coverage this year than in the past, but not much. Let me tell you. I think the AP press, I read through the Washington Post, mentioned the secretive gathering of senior government officials and business executives that some likened to a shadow government.
So they alluded to that there. It got a little hot in Switzerland. Members of Switzerland's largest political party calling for the arrest of participant Henry Kissinger for war crimes. But the coverage generally, although more than in the past, is pathetic. And what do we take from this? Well, first of all, we need to see that the media is complicit in the governing of the world that goes on behind closed doors, outside and parallel to the desires of the people as expressed through their elected officials, because there were some media moguls there at this meeting, too, and often are at these Bilderberg meetings.
We must understand, too, that the science of psychosociopathology has proved that the human being is full of bad intentions, which, if not controlled, lead us to serious personal and social chaos and destruction. And who is more dangerous then, if we have these psychological inconscientized intentions? Well, the one with the most power, since he can give more reign to his greed and envy and sadism, especially if he's doing it in a more secret way than usual.
So don't expect that these guys have good intentions. Bill Gates is there. He's probably promoting his, how do we call it, his vaccination slash population control program in Africa. Do not begin to think that these people have good intentions. What the science of psychosociopathology shows us is that the more power we have, the more we give free reign to our pathological intentions, which are not understood and not controlled.
So the more we want power, the more dangerous we are. That is something really to be learned from Nrberto Keppe's work. His book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, explores that brilliantly.
I want to start with a bit of an analysis or critique of what's happening in the media. I've invited a good friend of mine, Fabrizio Biliotti, one of my colleagues down here at our Millennium Language Schools, and an Italian journalist, worked for a number of years in Germany as a journalist.
So let's try to investigate a little bit of this, then I'll bring Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco in to talk more about this and expand our conversation considerably. I remember I had just moved here when September 11th happened in 2001. I'd been here for like a month, month and a half maybe. And I had moved here from New York City. So I was very linked to what was going on in that story because I had friends in New York City, of course.
I had lived there for a couple of years. And I remember very clearly that after September 11th, there was a lot of questioning going on, particularly in New York, and I even saw this in the media, a lot of consciousness that was coming up as a result of this terrible attack. People were asking questions. Why has this happened? Why do people hate us so much?
Was there something we did that contributed to this situation? Why are the terrorists wanting to attack us? We are very vulnerable. We are not as powerful as we thought. There was a lot of consciousness coming up. People were really questioning. A lot of very healthy dialogue. And that got very quickly turned. It lasted for a few weeks, and then we didn't see anything about that more.
We started to see guys going on the radio saying, it's time to bomb Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. We will set you back by pulverizing you. We saw Ralph Peters, a former U.S. Army officer, writing in the Wall Street Journal who said, this is a killing hour, and we must rise to it. So I think this is something that's very clear, that there was consciousness coming, and the media should be involved in exploring that consciousness, trying to get to the bottom of that, what's happening, what's really going on.
Instead, it gets completely taken away, and we just start to talk about attacking, bombing. That must be our real intention then.
Fabrizio Biliotti: Yes. For example, people, they don't want consciousness. Because there is an inverted idea, Richard, in our society, that consciousness brings suffering. And how is our reaction in front of all these happenings? Well, many people, they wanted to be more conscious of what was happening, to try to solve, to give a solution to this situation.
But many other people, they want to deny this consciousness. But what is the consequence if I continue to feed this anger, if I continue to feed this aggression? It will start a process that will never end, and which will bring to an increasing violence all over the world. So as journalists, what
Richard: can we begin to do here? Because this is a complicated situation.
If a country is attacked and people die, how can we as journalists begin to look at this situation in a more mature way? The quotes that
Fabrizio: you were reading before were very interesting because this reaction, this violent reaction, oh, let's bomb Afghanistan, let's destroy everything, let's pulverize everything. This is a kind of reaction to a consciousness that we refuse. What is this consciousness?
The answer is in the questions that people were bringing. That is, why are we so vulnerable? Why did it happen? Did we
Richard: contribute in some way? Yeah,
Fabrizio: did we contribute in some way? Why do people hate us so much? Then the more the mature. And
Richard: that's a very serious question. Those are very deep. Because it's not a simple thing of saying that we're responsible for that completely, but we can begin to look, how did we contribute?
Is there something that we are doing? Why do people hate us so much? How can we get people to be more on our side, you know? Yes.
Fabrizio: We don't want to have this consciousness because we know that somehow we contributed to this situation. And then a mature person tries to be conscious of this and to calm down. And a mature person reacts, destroying everything and think that the problem is outside.
And then if the problem is outside, the only solution is to eliminate the problem and not to be conscious of this.
Richard: And that's exactly what happened. Very shortly after this discussion began, after September 11th, it very quickly turned to we need to attack in order to defend ourselves, to destroy the enemy outside. So we're not having the consciousness of what's going on inside.
We're trying to bomb the other country, which is actually bombing, destroying the consciousness that we could have by looking at this situation differently.
Fabrizio: Then you add, for example, to a bad situation another bad situation. And that means that the violence will increase all over the world. Which it is. Which
Richard: it is. That is what actually is happening. We have to ask Americans.
If they feel safer today, if they feel that they're under less threat of terrorism, I would say absolutely not. There's more terrorism in the world. They're in more danger. There's more paranoia in the United States today. Everything is increased because of this failure to want to see the consciousness deeper. I remember doing an interview with Norberto Keppe shortly after September 11th, and I was asking him about the correct response in this situation.
And he used an analogy of a human being. He said that a mature person, when they're confronted by an attack, they can actually not be harmed in the situation. The person who's doing the attacking can actually be more hurt than the person who's been attacked. A mature person's response is not necessarily to attack back.
Fabrizio: I think the big problem is what Dr.
Keppe says. We know already that war is wrong. Everybody knows that. Because war is destruction. It's something against our well-being. It's something against our health. It's something against our
Richard: harmony. My father fought in the Second World War. And he told me one time. He said, nobody wants to go through a war, Richard. Don't pretend that it's a wonderful, romantic, beautiful thing. It's not good for anybody.
Even the people who win, who are fighting for a good cause. He said, don't pretend that it's some romantic, fantastic thing. Yes,
Fabrizio: I remember. I had two grandfathers. One in Italy. I am Italian. Then one participated in the fascist side and the other to the liberation side. But both said that the German and the other, the Allies, were kind of criminals. I know that's very delicate what I'm saying.
Yeah, of course. I understand. But the difference
Richard: that Dr. Cape shows to
Fabrizio: us through his discoveries and through his work is war is something wrong. But what is important for us to know is what is the consciousness that hides behind the war? This is what a major journalist should
Richard: do. And what is the consciousness behind this desire for war and aggression that we've had for centuries in humanity?
Fabrizio: The big mistake is, for example, the violence, aggression is natural in human beings. Dr. Kepes says, no, this is pathological. This is a denial of goodness, of what is good. When we consider the war, we have to understand that war is a distraction, an attack. When we are in front of this kind of situation, like war, terrorism, and so on, we must be conscious of this fact, that war or terrorism is something pathological.
Is a denial of something good that is the reality that we should live. We should live in goodness. We should live in truth. We should live in beauty and harmony. But we don't. Then every time we want we have this desire to destroy something. We must become be conscious of this. If we can. If we think. No, but violence and aggression is natural in the human being.
Then what does it mean? That when I attack another person, okay, it's natural. It's part of my nature. Then why should I have to be conscious about this? But if I consider the good, the truth, and the beauty, then every time I do something against these elements, I have to be conscious about the reason why. In
Richard: this sense, then, we must use war as a justification for the pathological attitudes we have to go against the essence of what we are.
This is a discussion that should be happening in journalism today. Yes, exactly. The problem
Fabrizio: is, why do we do war? Why do we create a violent society? This is a big, important deal to understand today, and journalism must help people to do this. It's like, for example, in psychotherapy. The function of a psychotherapist is to show the client what is wrong. And through this consciousness, the client will have an attitude to correct.
Now, what is the function in the sense of the media? It's to help society, to help the individuals to be conscious of this pathological part, not to justify the wrong things we are doing, but to be conscious that it is a wrong way to act. It is a wrong way because it brings only violence and death and destruction, and this process will increase the destruction of our planet.
And that is why, for example, journalists must have this function like a therapist of society.
Richard: Our sociotherapy continues in just a moment. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco next. Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are on the Positive World Radio Network. Richard Lloyd Jones with you. And, you know, Cláudia, welcome, by the way.
Cláudia and I are joking here about sometimes to get the energy to get up in the morning is a challenge, isn't it?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Yeah, not only that. No. But you see, everybody's complaining and everything is starting not to work anymore, like Skype and Internet systems. So it seems that really something very big is going on in the planet.
Richard: All these volcanoes and tornadoes and earthquakes and Internet that doesn't work and all this electric problems.
So what is the truth all about? Some people look in the Internet and they say, well, there are this sun... Sunspot activity there, right? Yeah,
Cláudia: and increase in the activities of the sun. And then there is this harp business going on. And then there is this pollution being caused by things. And then there are planets, hidden planets approaching. So the Schumann resonance is moving and it's becoming bigger.
Richard: It's changing. Time is speeding up, right? Yeah, timing is speeding up and people are getting more and more weird illnesses, weird and weird bacteria, and weird and weird viruses, whatever.
Cláudia: So you can't sleep anymore. You have pains all over your body and doctors cannot diagnose what you feel or what you have. So we are really inside an enormous change. And I question myself, do the powerful really know what is happening?
If they know or they just guess or if they know where are they going to be if things get worse and worse? What are they going to do if there is anything to be done? So we have this huge question mark. But I'm sure they must know things because they, at least they should say we don't know what is happening. If they don't, if they don't, because it's so clear for everybody that the world is not the same.
You
Richard: know, we've been studying here a lot this little book by Stéphane Hessel, this 93-year-old
Cláudia: French man, who
Richard: wrote a book called, in English they're translating it as Cry Out, which means protest, wake up, cry out. And I just wanted to sort of begin with that because you say that what's going on. Well, we can see through this book that he is aware that there's something happening, that something is not right and that people aren't saying anything anymore.
So he's written a book calling people to action. And it's been a publishing phenomenon in France. The man's name is Stéphane Hassell. He's written a 13-page
Cláudia: book
Richard: that's sold over 13 pages that has sold over 600,000 copies. It's like a phenomenon there. And he's become like a hero of all these young people because he's saying, look, where is the spirit of protest, of resistance that we had during the Nazi time?
What happened to our spirit of
Cláudia: resistance here in France? Yeah, he was a resistant guy in
Richard: the Second World War. Yeah, he was captured and tortured. He stayed
Cláudia: in a concentration camp and survived.
Richard: Yeah, he's a hero. He's a hero. He escaped from a concentration camp, actually, which is no small feat. And I was just looking at, just to give you who are listening some perspective on what he's talking about, why to be so indignant.
Because I think, I don't know, sometimes if we just don't get it, if we don't see what's happening, our media is so delinquent, they're so absent that they don't tell us what's happening in any one place where we can see it. And there was some, I don't know where this came from. It looks like it was written in Portuguese originally, somebody who wrote some kind of a document inspired by Stefan Hessel's book, where they wrote a number of clauses outlining the state of the world in various areas.
And I thought I would just start with that, Cláudia, and then say, look, this is some of the stuff that's happening, and why aren't we responding? What's going on that we don't react anymore? These are some of the clauses that are written in this document inspired by Stefan Hessel's book. It's like somebody sat down, I don't know where this came from, but somebody we received, has written some clauses, some things that are going on in the world that we should be up in arms about and we aren't.
For example, that the international banks lend our money to countries to arm themselves for war, and they finance both sides of the conflict so that the conflict lasts as long as possible and they receive as much money as possible. And then furthermore, when either side can't pay back the loan, we accept that they should pay with their natural resources. This is written like a document.
I accept. I accept to eat beef that has been injected with hormones even while there's no legal requirement for this to be noted on any label whatsoever. I accept to be a guinea pig and eat meat raised on genetically modified animal feeds so we can see if any genetic modification occurs over the long term in human beings. I accept that the vegetables, vegetables I ingest are loaded with toxic pesticides and herbicides, provided that they promise not to use too much.
I accept that they use all kinds of chemical additives in my food and I agree with them when they assure me that there will be no negative consequences over the long term. So what this person has written here in response to this book of Stefan Hessel is a series of clauses outlining the state of the world today. How things are. Not how things will be.
How things are today. In all of these areas. Areas of the banking system, of the food system, of the agriculture system, economic system, the energy system. Have you read
Cláudia: the first clause? The
Richard: first clause I don't have. Do you have it there?
Cláudia: Mm-hmm, about the comfort.
Richard: Yeah, so let me
Cláudia: translate as we...
Richard: She's handing me her laptop. Technology is wonderful. I accept the...
Busca is the pursuit. I accept the pursuit of comfort as the final goal, the supreme goal of humanity, and the accumulation of wealth as the principal objective in our life. The more unhappy I am, the more I will consume, and this will contribute to the well-running of the system, will contribute to a very healthy system if I do that. This is the first clause in this document.
Yeah,
Cláudia: so what is very upsetting is that it seems that the capacity of human beings to distinguish between happiness and physical or some kind of satisfaction of the instincts of desires, that these things are totally, totally different, being happy and being satisfied. And in a comfortable situation. And so Fernando Pessoa, this famous Portuguese poet, already said, sad of those who feel good and satisfied in their home, in front of their fireplaces, in their inner comfort, because this soul will be like almost lost, sad of them, sad of them.
Wow. That don't care about what is happening all around. Don't mind being happy. And what is happiness? And
Richard: if we think of the objective of the human being. It's to have the fireplace and the living room. And all of those things that he said. We should be sad for those people.
Cláudia: Yeah, but feel satisfied with those things. And so at that time.
There were already. Well, there was already this mentality. But people.
Richard: Still questioned. When did he write? Early 1900s, I guess, right?
Cláudia: So even like a hundred years ago he was aware of this. Yeah,
Richard: many people have talked about this, Cláudia, the.
Cláudia: Yeah, but now the comfort has come for, for many many people, this physical material comfort. And there is, it seems that there is nothing worse for a soul than to feel comfortable, because then they, they stay attached to this comfort, material comfort.
And I remember one program we did here, Richard, when we quoted a saying of Dr Keppe. There is a vice, an addiction which is much worse than alcohol, than drug addiction, like chemicals, substances, um, sex perversions, and so all these normal
Richard: things we think of as being terrible. So
Cláudia: he said consumerism. I
Richard: remember this program very
Cláudia: well. Consuming, buying and buying the comfort and feeling like satisfied, because
Richard: it creates an enormous corruption of the soul, he said.
Cláudia: Because then we waste and we lose the higher vibrations of the soul and the life, which are totally unmaterial, like invisible sometimes, unnoticeable sometimes. But those are the real reasons for a person to be fulfilled, to feel fulfilled, to feel happy. And people who are satisfied, they get fatter and fatter, and they get richer and richer, or they get more lazy, lazier and lazier, more corrupt, more unethical, less caring, less capable to feel affection, even less love.
So they don't desire anything other than what they can eat and have and own. And God is so far. So the source of true happiness, they don't even think about this anymore. Yeah, this
Richard: is, well, this is obvious, right? I mean, we, we have such a, um, we've become, become so materialistic that I think we don't even think now about what it would mean to have a more elevated life, as you're talking about.
It doesn't even enter our consciousness. But even on the material level we're in tough, tough shape, right? I mean, because we've abandoned the spirituality, we've even destroyed our material. Yeah,
Cláudia: that's right. It's becoming more and more mediocre, more and more mediocre. What they have to sell, it's always the same things. Cars, houses, watches, clothing, shoes, shoes, nothing else. Yeah, arts is becoming more and more degraded.
Art is being
Richard: used for advertising, marketing now, for the,
Cláudia: for the big part, right? Now I wonder, uh, maybe we are, as Keppe says, for the first time in a verge of a big shift of civilization. And he said, he quoted in his book Liberation of the People, pathology of power, that we are
Richard: on the edge of, we are at the end, he said.
We are at the end of modern humanity's most unhappy age and at the beginning of the happiest age based on true values. Yes, so
Cláudia: now we are questioning because we got to the bottom. I hope we will not get too far inside this bottom place, because it's a bottomless place. Evil has no end, as goodness has no end either. It's infinite. Evil as denial of goodness, it's infinite also.
Richard: Just to articulate that, because in Dr. Keppe's definition, evil would be the destruction of good. So if we don't change the attitude of destroying good, we go on in evil forever.
Cláudia: Yeah, because goodness is infinite. God's goodness is infinite.
Richard: Yeah. You know, this is interesting, Cláudia, because we were talking last night in the class. I was looking at these documents I was quoting from based on Stefan Hessel's book and getting my students to work with the texts.
And I asked about what are the usual solutions to these problems that we see? And the students said, well, things like laws, legislation, stronger supervision of these areas of human activity. And I said, but these things we've created, these situations of agrotoxical chemicals and pesticides and herbicides and hormones, they come from an attitude first, don't they? I mean, they come from a way of being, way of thinking.
And
Cláudia: I
Richard: don't see anybody who's addressing that in the, all the great idealists that work in the environmental movement, these great social activists, they're not addressing this fundamental part.
Cláudia: No, and Keppe is very fundamental in what he approaches and describes and touches. He's very, he goes to the core, to the essence of things, to the essence of the human beings and society and everything.
So he went to the true essence. And when he says in his book Liberation of the People that the meaning of the purpose of Analytical Trilogy, his science, is the Liberation of the People, and many people would say Liberation of the People of what? From what? From what? And then he says that the people so far has been totally slaves of the powerful, of a small group of powerful, directly through slavery, officially.
Slavery or indirectly through some socio-economic regimes that are still dominating society and since its creation in the early times. So these small groups of powerful have enslaved humanity since the beginning.
Richard: Let's come back and talk about that. We need to take a quick break and we'll come immediately back to talk about these regimes that have enslaved. What's happening there and how we need to wake up.
Back in a moment on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Richard Lloyd Jones with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. Just before the break you were talking about these regimes that have enslaved us, the fact of human slavery, directly as slaves, but indirectly too, in that we're working for banking systems, we're working sort of unknowingly for this enormous structure of power.
Not so enormous, actually. It's dominant, maybe we could say. It's not so many people, but it's very dominant in our society. And so let's talk a bit more about that, Cláudia. Yeah, as
Cláudia: you said, Keppe goes to the essence of things. So he says that he considers freedom only, there is only freedom for a human being or for humanity to act, to do good things, to accomplish.
To do good work or good actions in the sense of being good, beautiful and truthful. So the essence of the human being is goodness, beauty and truth. And this is in everything that exists, not only human beings, everything. Therefore, every time we do something bad or evil, when we are lazy or when we get drunk, We will be harming ourselves and our fellow man.
So power in humanity should be the same as the power of God. God only uses his power in the direction or in the sense of creating what is necessary, what is right, what is beautiful, the wonders of creation. And as we say, anything, anything that is created by God, it's beautiful, it's good.
Richard: It's noted for its harmoniousness, right? It works together with everything else.
It doesn't, like a human being, it doesn't impose something horrible into a system. It only works in harmony for things to be beautiful. So
Cláudia: according to Keppe, well, power must exist, but not in the way it has been used so far. In a way, egotistically, like egotistically way. Just to benefit those who have authority, who have prestige, and the social powers, as he says in his book.
And he claims that in order to have a healthier society, there must have a graduate substitution. But, but even like all, everything should be gradually substituted and replaced. Yes, replaced. All the powers that are now evil powers must gradually be substituted by good powers, replaced by good. Yeah,
Richard: yes, so we
Cláudia: don't, instead of serving ourselves we must serve the people, and the powers must serve the people in order to, as he says, not to be diabolic.
Otherwise, all the service that one does for the vanity, the egotism, the pride of other
Richard: people, or the greediness, or to create fortunes,
Cláudia: this is a diabolical power, according to Keppe.
Richard: So power needs to exist, but power oriented in the correct way, disinverted I guess, and we would say, and kept his language, so that we, the power then is truly a power that's serving a greater good, not just an individual need.
And Keppe
Cláudia: goes even further and he puts us, he elevates us in a, in such a degree that he says, he states, God is total freedom in our happiness. He's not saying here satisfaction only, but our satisfaction, and but our fully happiness depends on our possibility to become more similar to him. Imagine if we want to be happy, the happier or the, the most similar we can become, we, we succeed in being like him, we the happier we will be, and, and only then we, our true potentials can be fulfilled.
So have you ever thought about early in the morning waking up and thinking, what would God do in my place today in this or that action? We never think about this. So what would he do in my place? So if I would be like him, how I would act? And this would be the right way to think. And not to compare ourselves always to people that are worse than we are, who have more problems than we have, because this comparison is easy to be done.
Richard: Yeah, we make this comparison with people about having more money, about how could I become rich like that guy, and not how could I be
Cláudia: more philosophical,
Richard: truly artistic.
Cláudia: More virtuous.
Richard: More virtuous. How could I tell the truth?
Cláudia: Less egotistic, more generous, more capable, and more beautiful in what I
Richard: do. But what is it going to take for humanity to have this conversation you're talking?
Cláudia, when you're speaking, you're speaking like 180 degrees different from most of the conversation that we hear on the planet today. I
Cláudia: find Keppe a man that came to this life to be totally like going in the opposite direction than humanity is. So he's in a total...
Richard: 180 degrees different. Different. And
Cláudia: all the sense humanity is going is the opposite of where Keppe wants to go.
And he not only speaks about himself only, but all the wise people that came before him. As we were talking yesterday about Buddha. Buddha came before Christ and Buddha brought a lot of benefit to humanity because he was putting in question the value of the senses. And the satisfaction of the desire. So many, many thousands of years ago and centuries, a man like Buddha, which influenced humanity since our present days, he was questioning the morbidity of the senses, fulfilling the senses.
Richard: He talked a lot about restraining that, didn't he? About controlling
Cláudia: in some way? Yeah, as a recipe to liberate oneself.
Richard: And it seems that this has been interpreted as completely abandoning our senses, abandoning our ego. We hear a lot
Cláudia: about that. Maybe the senses being evil in themselves, which is not true.
Richard: Right, this is the point I wanted to get to. It's that we have a false use of our desires in that way.
So he was right about that, about trying to control that a little bit. But we're not having this conversation anywhere, Cláudia, except on our radio program and in Dr. Keppe's work. We don't hear this. What is it going to take? Richard. I don't know.
Cláudia: Richard, we must persevere. Yeah. Because if this man, Stefan... Hessel. Hessel. And he is read now by not only by 600 000 but only in France.
He sold 15 days ago 1 million and 400 000 copies. And so he's being also read in Spain and in
Richard: Brazil and Portugal and Germany and in many other
Cláudia: countries. And this Stefan Hassel was in France during the time when. And we did this big campaign, Savoir C'est Pouvoir, which is knowing is being powerful. Knowledge is power.
Richard: Knowledge is power.
Cláudia: And so he was one of the people we got in touch when we went to France.
Richard: In the 90s.
Cláudia: In the 90s. So not only him, but so many people are wanting something different. And they are waiting for something to happen. This is a problem because, you know, Richard, now the big brother has many means to control and to know who you are, what you do in order. So you don't organize yourself. You don't do anything. You really stay alone and you get afraid.
If you do something, you will be severely punished and controlled. So keeping people under this fear is part of the system. And this is one of the things Stéphane has said. It says that if you don't indignate yourself, if people, the millions of people, billions of people, don't react, the system will be preserved. And each citizen is preserving the system. Right? So we should not give up, because truth is enormously powerful.
And we see that a truth that is adopted and conscientized, it's very difficult. It's very hard for that to be taken away because each person that is born a newborn baby brings inside of himself this seed of the truth. And this is something important Anglo-Saxon philosophies of education. And they understand that knowledge is something imposed. You have to learn and learn and learn and read and be taught and learn and learn and read and be taught otherwise you are just a monkey or something, or an animal.
But it's not so. Our DNA has an energetic structure which brings in itself the first principles, which are very important. And they are developed during lifetime. But they are there. So even if you are tortured, even if you are corrupted, you preserve the seeds of the truth inside of you.
Richard: Already have them. They're already there.
Cláudia: This belongs to our DNA.
Richard: It doesn't come from education, from our families necessarily.
It can be encouraged by them, but it's already a seed inside.
Cláudia: So even the notion of the truth, a notion of happiness, a notion of freedom, a notion of God, a notion of what is right and wrong, a notion of loyalty and all these principles, we keep them inside of us. And they can be repressed, they can be denied, but they are there.
They never finish, they never die. So this is something that the powerful people, they can try and try and try to bring brainwashing systems, but they will never destroy
Richard: this. Maybe then the greatest evil that's been done is this attempt to remove this contact we have with this inner truth, Cláudia. Everything
Cláudia: they do is to try to avoid us to be
Richard: in touch with this.
So we don't believe in goodness anymore. We don't believe in truth.
Cláudia: And we are not in touch with our inner selves because if we are, then truth will, boom, come to the surface.
Richard: A little bit of water and poof. They're like those magic seeds.
Cláudia: Yeah. So they try to avoid you to be in touch with you all the time. So this dissipating society is maintained by TV, by traffic, by time is money, by...
Yeah, internet, Facebook. Now you carry a small Facebook in your pocket, so your cell phone is plenty of distractions. Yeah. So you don't get in touch with yourself. Don't get in touch with yourself. Otherwise, you'll become powerful. Your inner self will bring you power. Your inner self will bring you knowledge. You will start questioning things instead of taking in.
Richard: Bullshit. She doesn't want to say
Cláudia: the word, but I'm not afraid to say it.
So people do whatever they can to avoid getting
Richard: in touch with one's inner selves because our inner selves are truly powerful, Richard. And this is Norberto Keppe's work directly, Cláudiana. In our radio program, we try to bring this to people who are listening. This self-analysis, this ability to look inside to see what's true inside and not just accept what has been passing for true, this virtual reality that we live in now, but having contact with that.
Cláudia: So according to Keppe, power as it has been so far and exists presently is pathological is wrong anti-human and dangerous. That's what he says and this is true everybody knows everybody knows that. He said
Richard: too that if if we believe in any way that our attitude or behavior is powerful our our inverted behavior or attitude is powerful or brings us disadvantages we'll never think of abandoning it.
You know, if we really believe that being egotistical or arrogant brings us advantages, we won't see the benefit of changing that. So we have to perceive that this is what's led us to this path we're on now, is this inverted values, you know. This is why we're in the state we're in now. We have a... Yeah, no, let's take a break. Good idea.
We have to take a break now. We'll come back in just a moment. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. We are coming back. Don't go away. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network.
We have a lot of great resources there for you. Our good friend in Edmonton, Will Lajeunesse, has been updating that regularly with lots of good information.
So if you want to find out more about Norberto Keppe's work, if this is kind of striking a chord inside you, if it's touching something, you know we have the truth inside that we know answers already that the true power is there. These are these are powerful ideas that we don't maybe know what even what it means so we can start to study and understand that better.
Our radio program is helping us to do that. I said I think at the beginning of our program Cláudia that our media. I get I worked at media most of my professional life and I get very discouraged to see how little of what we're talking about now of truth really gets into the media. We think the truth is knowledge but the truth is not just information sure much deeper truth that
Cláudia: we're not hearing about now.
You have you seen one have been happening with journalists they are becoming more and more powerless the true journalists when. And Keppe wrote this book in the middle 80s.
Richard: Liberation of the People, the
Cláudia: Pathology of Power. He said the means of communication presently, they constitute a barrier against consciousness, very strong barrier. So in this sense, because of the higher interests they serve, they became very evil against the people, nations and all humanity.
But he said they themselves must fight for the freedom of the press and freedom of the truth and communication should come back. They should do that as the only way to preserve their own work. Because what you see now is that people read less and less newspapers. They take less and less serious, the serious work of journalism, because this has become something of the past.
Good writers, good thinkers in journalism are not, are less and less read. Now, as we have this freedom in Internet, you see a lot of junk being read and absorbed and posted.
Richard: So how come you can distinguish what is good to be read and what is truth? So truth in the Internet is totally, absolutely relative. The relativity
Cláudia: is the rule number one of Internet.
Everything goes. Anything goes. So the true journalism is something like, how do you call those old animals they find?
Richard: Like a fossil. Like a fossil. Like it's been, well, look what we discovered. We discovered an old journalist.
Cláudia: Yeah, the true journalist.
Richard: Where are they? Look at that. Where are they?
Cláudia: Yeah, so they pacted during a time. They were afraid, they were coward to confront their bosses because they could not say the truth.
They could never infringe a shift or anything they could not say.
Richard: Like anything,
Cláudia: yeah, they could not do that because otherwise they would lose their jobs and how they would pay for their bills and support their
Richard: families. So they began to make this pact not to speak the complete truth.
Cláudia: In order to conserve their salaries, their wages.
Richard: Yeah. You know, this is so interesting because this is not something that's like really obvious to journalists and to journalism today.
Because it's something that's very subtle. I remember there was a, I've talked about this in the program before, a journalist named Gary Webb who was a huge proponent of media, a very good journalist, and he won a number of awards and he said that "he was never censored. He could write about whatever he wanted to, city council corruption, anything to do with malfeasance or problems inside the politicians but."
When he began to write about something that was fundamentally flawed, like the introduction of crack cocaine into Los Angeles by the CIA, then he experienced what it was to be censored and to be attacked. And you know, Cláudia, this is the thing that's not understood because journalists really, they feel, no, I can write what I want. My editors don't censor me. Yeah, because you're not touching the vein of the problem.
Cláudia: And in another sense also, Richard, journalists, they run so much. Our life is so, like, time is money. You have a lot of things to do. It's frantic. So they don't have any more time to research, to do this investigative journalism. They don't have time, possibilities. They have this pauta to fulfill every day.
Richard: They have an agenda of things they need to do.
Cláudia: So what they do is to go to these Reuters
Richard: and major central news collection agencies. Yeah, the
Cláudia: news agency, IPI and Reuters and this
Richard: Agence France-Presse, etc., etc. And so the news there are already ready for them just to pick up, and the information comes to them through these channels. Services, through these services.
Cláudia: And everything is already distorted. Everything is already hidden.
So journalists don't have time nor means to do a true investigative journalism.
Richard: And they're not fighting for this, Cláudia, because, you know, they have a war in Iraq and they embed the journalists inside the military groups and they send them where the military wants them to
Cláudia: go. And they pay a lot. They pay a lot. They pay well. They pay good, good salaries to corrupt those people.
They corrupt the journalists. They corrupt everybody they want to become their hands and their arms in society. They corrupt with high wages.
Richard: So there's been a real loss of these ideals, not only in people, but in the journalists, too.
Cláudia: True. And you see, a person who is powerful, they never, ever want to do analysis or true analysis. You know that? Politicians don't do analysis.
Richard: They don't come in
Cláudia: and psychoanalyze themselves. According to anyone that is really a little sensible, we know that the wise people are those who know themselves.
Richard: Who question themselves a little bit. Who say, wait a minute, do I have good intentions here?
Cláudia: They know how their pathologies are, at least to some extent. They are in touch with themselves. They know themselves. But more and more people want less and less this kind of knowledge yeah they want to
Richard: be in a position of power to do whatever they want without questioning in any way.
But let's come back to this thing of media Cláudia because we've never, we haven't really ever talked about the media in our program and uh to any any uh degree. And here we are doing what I think is a new media, a program trying to help people to think. So a journalist should be above all then interested in these true values, the true power that you're talking about, spiritual values.
Human values,
Cláudia: human rights, simple human rights, civil rights. It's constitutional. And they don't even question what is going on, that they are serving the lies, all these lies about terrorism, about this and about that. I was watching the other day, Susan Berkley sent me a small cartoon, or 10-minute cartoon.
Richard: It was a public service announcement during the 1950s that ran on television there about what to do in the event of a nuclear attack.
And I remember this campaign very well. We didn't have it in Canada, that I remember, But I remember very well from a series of documentaries that were done in the 1970s when I was very involved in the anti-nuclear movement. They were showing these public service announcements to show the lunacy. If you just duck and cover.
Cláudia: Duck and cover, duck and cover, duck and cover.
So ridiculous, so paranoid, so paranoia was already fed at that time so tremendously as it is now. So they take away freedom, they take away intelligence, they take away the common sense of everybody with this propaganda. And this propaganda is mostly done through the medias. And
Richard: not only now,
Cláudia: it has been for
Richard: a long time. And nobody has the courage to stand up and say, come on, are you kidding me?
If we hide underneath a blanket on our family picnic, we're going to be safe from a nuclear explosion? Is this what we really... I mean...
Cláudia: I think everybody should watch this duck-and-cover business if it's posted in the Internet.
Richard: Oh, it's on YouTube for sure.
Cláudia: They should see the ridiculousness of the situation as it is now with this terrorism as an excuse to take away all civil liberties.
So what do all those journalists who were supposed to question the powerful. They only question the people. They only question other countries. They only question those hidden, unknown terrorists. They only question about bombs that don't exist in other countries. What do they question? Why don't they question anymore? The service of a good journalist is questioning the powerful of his own country.
Richard: Holding them to task for what they're doing.
Cláudia: Yes, and to help the
Richard: people and to
Cláudia: be at the side of the people.
Now the journalists are more and more at the side of the powerful in their own pockets and against the people, preserving the blindness of people and justifying all the criminal actions of those governments. I'm not saying only about American government. I'm speaking about many governments, maybe all the governments of the world.
Cláudia: Maybe, who knows, if it's not true for all governments, from what I have read and heard and observed and experienced, all the governments are, like, involved in big corruptions. So where are the true journalists? Where are they?
Richard: Great question, Cláudia. I know you need to run, so thanks for joining us. And Cláudia Bernhard-Prasheka will be with us again, of course, next week on our program.
Where are the great journalists? This is a question that's so important for us to ask, isn't it? I hope that we're doing some of that good journalism, important journalism, what Jefferson called at the very beginning of our program that I alluded to as part of the consciousness of humankind. I hope we're doing some of that on our program, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
I know that there's a lot of this kind of conversation going on now on the Positive World Radio Network generally. You can check it out at pwrnradio.com. Lots of good hosts there doing lots of interesting programs for you. But you know, when you think of it, you think of how the media has been dominated and controlled by the economic powers. I don't know, was it five or six companies that control the media?
Almost totally in North America these days. We have this idea that anything that's said outside them has no value. You know, I say to my students all the time, if you say something contradictory or controversial, people will say, yeah, who are you to say that? But if you say you're from the New York Times, the Washington Post, or Harvard, people go, ooh, wow, like there's something incredible coming from them.
You know, this matrix that we've been shoved inside, it doesn't allow us to see the truth of things. Norberto Keppe talks about this extensively in his book, Liberation of the People, where he talks about how most of the things you read about in the news today, newspaper, listen to on the radio, watch on television, are issues having to do with political, military, and economic power.
It's not related to who we the people are, almost entirely. We're obliged to read articles about fanatical groups in the Middle East about the increased power of the Chinese, or advertising that tells us the one brand of computer is better than another, or that airline food is going up or down. I mean, the media are operated by the powerful, my friends, and used by them to increase their power, thereby exploiting us to an even greater degree.
So how do we get out of this? Well, we can start to create small communications companies. We're doing this on the Positive World Radio Network right now. We can boycott the powerful media and eventually neutralize them. We need to begin to speak out and talk about the truth. So let's try and do that. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on the Positive World Radio Network.
Very happy to be with you.
Thank you very much for joining us. Great to have you with us.
