Well, hello to you listening and welcome to our program today on the Positive World Radio Network. You know, I like what Alan Hollander, the founder of PWRN, Positive World Radio Network, and the other good folks there are doing a lot, creating a place online for conversations about the issues and concerns of our time.
So I'd like to invite you to check out the other intriguing shows on the Positive World Radio Network site at pwrnradio.com. You know, I don't know if I'm just being overly dramatic. I have that tendency sometimes, just ask my ex-wife. But with the birds falling out of the sky, the fish floating belly up to the surface, the bees and bats die off, the torrential rains with no let-up here in Brazil, the super storm that may be heading for California, I can't help thinking how necessary these conversations are.
We are in difficult times, even crucial, and, I hope, transformative times. Well, here at Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, at any event, we're very concerned about the state of the world. Or maybe I should say we're concerned to bring consciousness about the state of the world. That's one thing I think we're uniquely placed to do because of our deep immersion in the work of Brazilian psychoanalyst and social scientist, Norberto Keppe.
It may sound too good to be true, but Keppe has put his finger on the core psycho and social problems from which stem all our modern-day issues. It seems very clear, if we look at it with any measure of objectivity, that in spite of all the Herculean efforts on the part of the tens of thousands of environmental and human and social rights groups worldwide, our situation is becoming more and more dire by the second.
And why is that? Well, if I could be so bold as to suggest a reason, it's because somehow we haven't gotten to the root of the problem. I was talking to a good buddy of mine from Vancouver the other day. He's a consultant working with customer service and corporate leadership training up there, and he was telling me about how his work is about trying to get all the members of the organization in question on the same page in terms of principles, beliefs, and practices.
And it seems to me that this is a crucial thing for we as a global community. How do we get on the same page together? Oftentimes, or maybe always, that question is applied to the corporate arena, and it translates into fancy mission, vision and values statements that get beautifully framed and posted in strategic locations around the enterprise, designed to get everybody marching in line to the same beat in order to make the corporation more money.
It's an often imposed document, no matter how inclusive of all the stakeholders was the process of drafting it. Well, Keppe's work provides the blueprint for a declaration of universal humanity that is relevant for all of us on the planet, and so answers these fundamental questions that have not been addressed sufficiently or with enough knowledge of the human being's psychological life to allow us to resolve the fundamental problems.
All of us feel, I suspect, that something very strange is happening to humanity and has been for centuries, something from which we cannot free ourselves. Keppe calls it a state of slavery, not only in the social sense, but mainly in the personal sense, by not living in harmony with our very essence. Seven billion people out of alignment with their metaphysical core. Wow, that is an enormous energetic pollution that we're all spreading.
And if we don't address things at that level, all the beautiful declarations and constitutions and bills we write will have no essential impact. Nor will our well-meaning efforts to protect the rainforest and stop the baby seal slaughter which we must do, of course, immediately, but in conjunction with our addressing of these deeper existential considerations that Keppe's Science of Analytical Trilogy brings us.
But Keppe has a further perspective on this whole thing that I find quite unique. He talks a lot about the main thing responsible for this state of slavery we're living within, and that is the groups of economically powerful that control the speculative economy and international trade in a way that makes our lives tremendously difficult. And he calls for a sharp increase in consciousness of this slavery that will help us to rebel and free ourselves.
With that in mind, before we enter too much into the bulk or meat of our program today, I'd like to address again the WikiLeaks situation. I was having a discussion with one of my students the other day who was incensed with Julian Assange's release of inside Afghani intel sources who helped the NATO troops. My student's concern, by the way, he's a very idealistic and competent lawyer down here, was that this release put those people's lives at risk of vengeance and retribution at the hands of the Taliban or other extremist groups looking to get control or fight for their beliefs or whatever other excuse they offer.
Well, I certainly take that point. It's not comfortable to see people's lives in danger for fighting for freedom from any regime. And in this case, Julian Assange was probably reckless, irresponsible, and malicious. Perhaps his anti-social personality is demonstrating itself here. But let's not lose sight of another aspect of this story. The publication of these thousands of diplomatic cables is giving us a glimpse behind the scenes at what is really going on that we never hear about, or if we do, it is in some isolated op-ed piece out of context with the total manipulation and Machiavellian machination that is our sick power structure.
You see, we desperately need Keppe's perspective here of the pathology of power, that these are the sickest individuals driving our socioeconomic, legal, and political systems. I mean, who else but a totally unbalanced and psychotic person would sit around devising these sleazy and demented programs like CIA mind control experiments started in the 50s and continuing to the present day? And let's not forget that there is so much going on behind the scenes.
The Taliban and Osama bin Laden were funded by the CIA to fight the Russia in the 80s. Hitler was supported by international industry. The CIA hustled Nazi scientists out of Germany after World War II in a project called Project Paperclip, and they became later involved in those CIA mind-control experiments I was talking about, the Bluebird Project, MKUltra. Did you know there's a CIA assassination manual?
Written in 1953. By the way, it says in there that assassination is not advisable for those who are morally squeamish. Good heavens, like you're a wimp if you can't handle a little murder for the good of your country. Almost expect Hans and Franz to pop up, right, in a Saturday Night Live episode and call you who are afraid of assassinations little girly boys.
In the great historian Barbara Tuchman's magnificent book, The Guns of August, she wrote about world events, how they can be shaped by personal foibles. It's a harrowing view of the blunders, madness, and personal feuds between the leaders that led us to the war to end all wars, the folly that led to the useless slaughter of millions of young people in World War I.
Although, of course, not the leaders involved. No, they were safe at home while fresh-faced soldiers were rising out of trenches to try to claim a few hundred meters of mud and being mowed down by Gatling guns. Seen from Keppe's perspective then, this all takes on new light. As Keppe says in his wonderful book, Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, he says, quote, the core of sociopathology is the desire for power.
Any individual who has unlimited power inevitably creates serious disorder because he's able to give free reign to all of his psychopathology. The well-balanced individual is not interested in having power. Only those who are extremely sick become attached to positions of power and command so as to counterbalance their psychological shortcomings. End of quote. We have a new tool now to allow us to analyze better what's going on, to see the pathology behind Assange, for example, Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks guy, his narcissism, arrogance perhaps, but also the benefit of shining a tiny light on a small piece of what's going on behind the scenes in the psychotic halls of power because that consciousness is totally necessary for us to wake up here in the 21st century.
But why does this power go on unobserved so much? Why is there so much of this happening that we don't pay attention to. That is also a psychological point. And I want to bring in our sociopathology beat reporter, Gilbert Gambucci, to talk a little bit about how we make a pact with the powerful. That's very interesting for us to discover more about.
Gilbert Gambucci: Gilbert? So, Rich, I would like to explain what is a pact? Pact. Psychological pact. For example, when I was a kid living in a small town in Pennsylvania, I remember that we had a drug dealer in our town. There was a guy there. He lived in his home with his parents. And everybody in the town knew that he dealt drugs of various types.
They would go there to his home or he would meet them in different places. And everybody knew that he was a drug dealer except for his parents who lived in the same houses. He. So how can we explain this? This is called a psychological pact, when we simply make every effort possible not to perceive what we don't want to perceive. Are
Richard: you suggesting that his parents had the same problem as him?
And how would you define that a little more clearly?
Gilbert: They may have had some type of corruption that is similar psychologically, which could manifest in a different way. And so one doesn't want to see the other's problem because you don't want to see it in yourself. For example, if I'm a lazy guy and you're a lazy guy. And so I remember last year you built that fence in the backyard.
You're a hard worker, you know. So you don't want to see the problem that you have inside yourself. And so this is called a pact. It's an unspoken, unwritten agreement, pathological agreement that we make with another.
Richard: Okay, so we have these pacts, and we can see these pacts in families, we can see them in relationships, we can see all sorts of areas where this shows up.
I'm assuming, then, that this also has an application in a social system where we could, a group of people could have a pact with another group of people, not to say, not to speak. How do you see that as it relates to the political structure of the
Gilbert: United States? Exactly, Rich, because people outside of our country, and I've been living in many different countries outside of the United States the past 22 years, and I can verify that the perspective that other countries have on our nation is not the same that we have inside the United States.
It's quite different. It's no longer like it was during the time of Kennedy or during the time of early Hollywood when people were enchanted with the American artists, you know. And nowadays it's quite different. So for example what they see of the United States is that we go and we destroy entire nations for very dubious reasons. And so what is this americans american people we have an idea that oh there's this power structure that do these things that's that's something else that's not us but it is us.
We make a pact with these people. It's an unspoken agreement that we have with them to, yes, go and plunder another nation and thinking that we'll receive benefits from that. This is an enormous myth that the American
Richard: people live under, that the military is protecting freedom. Is this a pact? Is this part of this idea of the pact that you're
Gilbert: talking about?
Yes, that's impossible, Rich, because wars don't create freedom. Wars create enslavement of a nation. It destroys a nation. Not only economically, but even psychologically. Not just the nation that's being fought, but the nation that's fighting the war. The nation who's waging the war is going down. Losing the ideals. In the past, the United States had many, many ideals and altruistic philosophy of life that we don't have anymore.
For example, freedom. We are not free to do what is evil. If you do what is evil, then you're enslaved to that evil. There's a problem here with defining what is freedom. Are we free to exploit people? Are we free to destroy a nation? This is not freedom. We are free only to do what is good. If you're doing what is good, then you are free.
If we are doing something that is beautiful, that is truthful. Otherwise, we are putting ourselves more and more deeply into what is enslavement, actually. And we allow this power structure to do as they please. And we think that we're not linked to them, but we are. If we choose to omit, to not deal with what they are doing, then we are in agreement with them.
This is what we call this psychological pact.
Richard: Thanks, Gilbert.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. A little bit of contact information for you. We are streaming on the Positive World Radio Network.
You're invited to join us there. And our personal email, joneshealing at gmail.com.
We're back in just a moment.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We are back on the Positive World Radio Network, Richard Lloyd Jones, with Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Well, we had kind of an intense discussion there at the very beginning about the pathology of power, but it's information I think we really need to have more understanding about.
If we're to have the consciousness that we need to move forward in our society here in the 21st century, what is going on, what has been happening, has been very clear in the area of economics, and I want to invite Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco in today. One segment with her today on the economic crisis, how we can understand economy from Norberto Keppe's perspective.
Cláudia.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: For seven years, Keppe was studying and focusing only on the effects of the sociopathology in human beings, neurosis, psychosis, and organic illnesses. When he was in Brazil, studying here and researching here and applying his science to his clients, He focused more in inner aspects, aspects that were coming from the inner life of individuals. So when we moved to New York and we started to work in America, we started to perceive or kept him mostly focused on a huge problem, which he started to study and called sociopathology.
He started to perceive that if the social or the socioeconomic structure is too sick, it can create not only socioeconomic problems, but severe illnesses like psychosis, neurosis, and that's what we see in America nowadays.
Richard: What happened there then in Dr. Keppe's view? What was it he was seeing that was causing all this corruption, all these problems?
Cláudia: Well, it happened, Richard, that because America followed very much some philosophers, some thinkers, some economists like Adam Smith, William of Oaken, and also this very practical attitude that Americans have, seeing in action, in doing things, the essence of life, and doing anything, like freedom to do whatever they wanted to do.
This kind of schools of thought made a huge disaster in North America. And what Keppe realized is that the structure in American society developed so much sickness and so much inversion that individuals that are born there have very little chance to be balanced and to have a reasonable health. So he was very much concerned.
Richard: And you guys started way back, didn't you?
1984, when you were there, you started a whole campaign around the country, right? To fight this American decay you were seeing.
Cláudia: Nationwide campaign. And right after this campaign, to try to stop the effects of this decay. Right after this, Keppe wrote a book about the pathology of powerful because we were dealing with powerful people trying to advise, to conscientize politicians that if they didn't follow the true foundations of a healthy society of what America used to be, that if they shift their orientation much more to speculation than before, much more to consumerism than before and using the freedom in the inverted direction.
Richard: And we really need to become conscious of this inversion, don't we? That we use our freedom completely wrong.
Cláudia: Yes. So when Keppe started to advise people there, we made a nationwide campaign. We sent books to all politicians in America, all governors, all house representatives, representatives, all senators, all people in charge of the government. We sent books to all of them, but with no response, they didn't react.
So, what we realized in that time of the Reaganomics was that they were really believing that that philosophy, the Reaganomics philosophy, would help America to become a powerful nation. And that they would have the freedom to to do economically what they wanted to do. And they would always succeed. So it was a time of enormous delusions of grandiosity, delusions that casino Wall Street, money making money.
So we were very much worried. We witnessed many, many farms bankrupt, many farmers going bankrupt, many small... Small And medium industries going bankrupt. We saw industry in America finishing. So all the industries went to other countries. So we noticed that the orientation in America was that money was the value and not work. American people stopped working. They were even forced, many of them, to diminish their intensity of work.
And not only that, but many of them had to Well, Cláudia,
Richard: this is one of the real root problems of the situation we're seeing now, isn't it?
Cláudia: Keppe understands that richness comes from work, work of quality, work of necessity, and good work, statical, truthful, and good work, and not any work. So richness comes from this, and not, money doesn't make any more money.
It made, it artificially made. So it was all a kind of delusional attitude of all those economists, which now we are perceiving the consequences. Then Keppe tried to avoid this. We did everything to halt this before. And he said, "if we don't change this philosophy, if we don't go back to the values of work and good work that Americans used to have in the past, that built this nation, all the structure, infrastructure of these nations, and everything that America had of beautiful was built with hard work of Americans and also immigrants that went there to work in quality."
And a lot of ethical work was being done in that country.
Richard: You know, Dr. Keppe has talked about this a lot, that we've put money above everything. You know, we want to make money with money and not base it on any production. He says in his book, Work and Capital, that the economy is not just a game for human beings to play like Monopoly with exciting peaks and troughs.
And we live in a fantasy world in that way. He says the economy is part of reality and can only be developed correctly if it returns to its true origin.
Cláudia: Because, Richard, I think that we are in a first phase of conscientization. Americans now are starting to conscientize that this economic policy, the freedom of market, is not the true freedom. Because we are free in economy to work, to do what is good, beautiful and truthful, the good for society, for humanity, and not to feed the envy, the megalomania, the theomania of a few individuals or crazy groups or powerful people.
There are sometime, really are psychotic. And so when we are under this impression that a country is in decay only in economy, this is just the first step. Because decay in economy is also a consequence of a decay, a previous decay, psychological decay, in ethics, in education, in attitudes, in costumes, in values, in spirituality, in arts. So a society that enters in a decay, it enters in a decay before the economic decay.
They are in a psychological decay. So the economic decay is just a consequence where people refuse to work, where people think that if they gamble, if they take drugs, if they just have fun in life, if they don't care about the fellow man, if they don't care about ethical principles and spiritual principles. So all this inversion took over America. And this was an enormous sadness for us because we expected that American people would take this new science and bring the benefits not only for themselves, but for all the world, like the Roman Empire did in the past with Christianity.
But what we noticed is that they were not able anymore to understand what was going on. So we tried to advise and we suffered the consequences that many people know already. We suffered the consequences of this campaign, persecution, imprisonment and persecution. But now Keppe said, OK, so if you don't wake up until 89, it will be too late. Because after 1989, it will be impossible to resurrect this kind of economic, financial disease and psychological disease that those upside down economists and thinkers brought to American people.
Richard: Dr. Keppe was talking about it this way in work in Capital Club. He was describing an example that he read from Time magazine back in 1987. At the time, the stock market was sort of going up rather vigorously at the time. And he said, one giddy stockholder in Time magazine said, it's like picking money off trees. So Dr. Keppe was saying that this shareholder's phrase shows two things.
Shows this agitation amounting to a sickness in the buying and selling of shares and the atmosphere of euphoria and immorality among people who play this market. And I love this about Keppe's work because he's going to the psychological, even philosophical root causes of all this rather than just slapping a band-aid on the thing, right?
Cláudia: And when people talk to Keppe, and Keppe's a specialist about American psychopathology and psychosociopathology, for sure, because he's the one of the persons that love the most that country.
This is for sure. He loved them enormously, American people in American country, American countries. But when we asked him, OK, Keppe, now what do you think? What is going to happen about this disaster? What is the solution? So he says, go back to work. Now people will have to go back to work and do good and truthful work and work for humanity.
And this will not be easy presently anymore as it would be because making everybody go back to work now, it will be much more complicated because industries are destroyed. Farms are in the hands of a few. Um me all all like small medium businesses that were the tissue the economic tissue of the nation now this is almost destroyed. Everybody dependent on a few companies and corporations.
So when these corporations go down everybody goes down. It will be a time of huge conscientization. It's not a matter of having no solution. There is a solution and people should not enter in like a panic. But they have to understand that the problem is this. Maybe here
Richard: we could also Cláudia talk about the difference between the real economy and the inflated fantasy economy.
Because it's this latter one that's actually collapsing now. Yes, because
Cláudia: the real economies is what it is. And the financial breakdown will not affect what is really there being produced. And this is what is being produced, must continue, should continue, and should be more fed by investment or even workforce. And believe, go back to the belief that doing, working and doing a good job is what brings wealth to a nation as it did in the past for United States.
So there is hope. There are trilogical enterprises to be organized where all the workers are the owners or they are the shareholders of a company. And this is an economy that is only possible when the people understand this inversion. So they realize how much they can produce and very fast with trilogical kind of economy and enterprises. And from what I see all those people that are homeless living in their their cars now because they lost their homes, uh trilogical residences should be organized where people get together and have a like one large house being shared with other people and with this trilogical philosophy conscientizing their pathologies having like conscientization groups.
So there is a huge work now to be done to save American people from this crisis. It's not a band-aid, as you said, and no package is going to resolve. It's a fundamental, the pathology went to the bases, drug problems. All this must be addressed and trilogical science that Keppe brought is, I hope they will understand it will be the solution. So people can confront not only the crisis but imagine Richard how much nervous these people will become.
They are going to project among each other no you are the problem. They are going to fight. They're going to try to to attack and to kill and to be frustrated. They will have no money anymore for the drugs that are used to to have so their comfort their fun. So it will be mostly a psychological problem to be addressed presently. And there is hope and there is a hard work to be done.
But the solutions will come and the new beautiful future is ahead of us. This is
Richard: good news. A shift of gears.
Back with Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network in just a moment.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: We're back on the Positive World Radio Network, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Richard Lloyd Jones, your host today as every week. I think we are going to be special guests in another one of the great programs here on the Positive World Radio Network. Susan Davis at Good and Green Radio has invited myself and Cesar Soós, one of the co-inventors of the Keppe Motor, to talk about the Keppe Motor and environmental concerns from a trilogical perspective.
That'll be happening in the next week or so. I'll try and let you know more about that. And she will, too, on her program. Very much looking forward to that. You know, every once in a while we have visitors down here, actually quite often. We have visitors from all over the world. I'm a visitor, for example. I came for six months, nine years ago.
But we've had visitors from Russia, from Italy, from all over Europe, from North America. And it's always exciting for them to come down here and find out how we work, what we do, and the practical application of Norberto Keppe's work. Because this is something that really interests particularly Americans, not only the theoretical, philosophical aspect of Keppe's work, but how do you put it into practice?
And this is really fascinating to understand more about. So I want to invite one of our recent visitors down here. Mr. Bob Butler was joining us, and he has a lot of perspective from his North American view about how we do things here and how it's different and what he learned. Well, it gives you an idea of the kind of work that we're doing down here at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy.
So that's going to be the next two parts of our program, and I hope you find it interesting. I've always looked forward to these kinds of interviews, Bob, because, you know, I've been here nine years, so when I'm talking about my experience, it's coming from nine years of history with it. You're relatively new in understanding Dr. Keppe's work, so I think it's really useful to get your perspective on Analytical Trilogy, the work here in Brazil, for people who don't sort of have that insider's view as much as I do or people who've been here a lot longer.
What are your impressions? How could you let people know about Analytical Trilogy, Keppe's wonderful science?
Bob Butler: I think first people need to really approach the science with a real open mind because you're going to learn a lot about yourself. And you're going to learn things about yourself that you probably already knew, but you're not going to like what you're going to find out.
And I know that sounds kind of like double talk, but it's really not. As you know, Richard, my journey with Analytical Trilogy started really with you. It started in reading a dedication on a book by Susan Berkley, the voiceover artist in the United States, thanking a Dr. Norberto Keppe and a Dr. Cláudia Pacheco. And I said, who are these people that this voiceover artist and author of this book would write this dedication for?
A few weeks later, I was introduced via Susan to you on a teleconference called the ABCs of Analytical Trilogy. Matter of fact, it's been, I think, about one year ago, right about now, that we started those on a Tuesday night, if I remember. So I listened for 12 weeks then I decided to buy the books and as you know with my voiceover business I decided to use the books as a training ground.
So I started reading Liberation then Glorification and I got my hands on every English book that was available to translation. And over a course of a year I read these books five and six times aloud. So they started to infuse me so to speak within me. And some of the things that I didn't agree with when I first read, when I read them again, I had to say humbly that, you know, I think he's right.
Are you
Richard: talking to your friends and family about your experience here yet? What are you
Bob: telling them? Basically, how I've been sharing is through the pictures that I've been taking, pictures of Brazil, but more importantly, the Pictures of the people who are part of Millennium Analytical Trilogy.
Richard: Millennium is our language school, just for those of you listening who don't know about that.
We have a language school which teaches eight languages here in São Paulo, Brazil. And we use Dr. Keppe's psychoanalytical studies and research to teach people how to learn a language, just so people who know who that
Bob: is, Bob. So I've shared this with them and said this is a unique place. People, they own this business, and that's what really attracted me, too, the trilogical enterprises and the residences that the people have here.
And that was just fascinating to me. No bosses. There are no bosses. There's no titles. These people own these enterprises, a translation business, a language school business, dentist. And they discuss their problems with each other, with the business. They do it in group meetings. And some of those are pretty eye-opening. And so I shared that with. And my wife was familiar with some of this because I had started analysis on March 1st of this year.
And the more I participated, the more I needed to know more. And I finally inquired about the possibility of coming here. And through your kindness and efforts, I was able to come. And I said, you can't come for a week. You can't come for two. So we might as well, let's try three months, because that's the length of the visa
Richard: for 90 days.
You can come a week or two weeks if you want, and we don't want to discourage people from that. But to really go a little deeper, it's nice to be here a little longer if you can. I came for six months, Bob, and nine years later, I'm still
Bob: here. I've had that kind of thought since I arrived. I constantly, I guess you could say, reached out and said, holy smokes, Richard came here for six months.
He's still here nine years. Is this going to happen to me? And if I didn't have some responsibilities at home with my wife and, you know, my grandchildren, to be candid with you, this here and this organization, this science, I will tell you that I wouldn't have mind making it the last address in my life. Yeah, very interesting.
Richard: Now, let's get a little bit more specific because we talked in general terms, and that's really beautiful to get your general impression of it.
You talked about the trilogical companies, and I think what I see in these companies is a real answer to a lot of the economic problems that we see in the world. And maybe you could just give us your impression how you see trilogical enterprise. I've been here nine years, and I can't say that I understand completely how they work, but you being a little bit sharper in business, what are your impressions?
How do you see this being applicable around the world? Well,
Bob: first of all, the people themselves are the owners of the business. They own the business. Where in corporate America or even in other enterprises, the employee really is working. Yes, they're earning money, but are they really earning a fair and legitimate wage? People have to ask themselves that question. But with the enterprises, what everyone does, they share in.
And the end result of that sharing allows them to build residences where they can live, which reduces their overall cost. They live as a family. They live as a team. And they just really serve humanity. They benefit. It. And that's the real major advantage because nowadays people, they work for companies and they get paid, but it's really the money. And most people, if you ask them, do you love your job?
They will tell you they hate it. And I think when there's a sense of ownership and participation and growth, things flourish. It gives a lot of
Richard: power too, Bob, because, you know, we have 50 or 60 people that are partners in these companies. And together, we are doing things that we could never do individually. You know, we have two homes in a gated residence in the community in about an hour and a half from São Paulo on a lake.
We have two homes that are worth whatever, you know, several hundred thousand to a million dollars. We have an apartment at the beach. We have a beautiful hotel in Kambukira. We have a nine seven story apartment building that we own and built and we have another residence where people live. We have a number of cars that we've purchased. We pay for all our holidays through the work that we do in the business.
Our work goes towards funding the spreading of Dr Keppe's TV program around the world in about 23 three countries now I think. So we're doing a lot of things collectively with our work that we could never do individually. I've got a beautiful studio here because of the efforts of you know of all of us. It's a it's a really beautiful. It absolutely is.
Bob: And as an observer and one who's been living this experience, people aren't without. I mean, they have the ability to work hard and they really do work hard. But you don't hear a lot of whining or crying. You see people in action and that really is, you know, the essence of life. And as Keppe says, to put yourself in action. And at the end of the week, which is at Saturday at about 5, 5.30, because again, they're serving humanity here.
They're serving the students and the businesses that they deal with. And they take off for one of these retreat spots. And one of them in Kambukira, in Minajurais, I believe is the name. There's a social project going on because this community is impoverished. The unemployment rate is, from what I understand, 70%. And the people involved in Analytical Trilogy are there to try to help the people and teach them some skills that hopefully can generate some commerce for them.
Give
Richard: us an idea of those courses that we're teaching up there, Bob, and the specific things that are happening in Cambukia? Well, if
Bob: I remember, a couple are, there's a sewing course where the ladies of the community, or men if they want to, are taught the craft of sewing. And the end benefit of it for some has already been, and hopefully they'll become entrepreneurs on their own, but they were hired by companies there because of what they learned.
And there's a course going on right now about becoming a beauty salon and with different hairstyles. And again, these are all taught by people of Analytical Trilogy Millennium. So the people need to know that this science really is about learning about who you are, but serving humanity. This is a world that was given to us, and it's perfect just the way it really is.
And what's happened with these various psychopathologies that people have is that we try to make it better than it already is. And sure, Millennium has the homes in the country and the hotel, but when they're there, they're working, they're serving. And like in Kambukira, at Festa do Divino. The Divine Festival, yes. That day, they fed 5,000 people in need. I mean, so this isn't about...
We
Richard: did, Bob. Not just they now. You're a part of it.
Bob: We did. That's true. We got
Richard: out there. We worked our asses off to feed 5,000 people. It was a beautiful experience.
Bob: And it was. And again, where did the food come from? Well, it came from volunteers, but it really came from the income that's generated by the enterprises. So they just don't keep it all for themselves.
They're sharing it with humanity. And it was very fitting. It was very touching on the Festival of the Holy Spirit to see these people in need out there being served. And that's as idealistic as it may sound. That's what life really is.
Richard: We've come to believe that being idealistic is kind of like, that's a utopia, that'll never happen. But I think this is really sad thinking in our world, to think that we can't really have a beautiful world.
Of course we can, we have a lot of work to do to get there, but it's certainly possible to have that kind of world, Bob.
Bob: And all we have to do really to accomplish that is to open up our minds and be aware and to admit that we're not perfect. Admit that a lot of times that, you know, we project out our feelings towards other people.
And this science is amazing. It's been unified. So you're not really just looking at metaphysics. Metaphysics. You're not just looking at spirituality. This is the work of a man who for 50, 55 years has done this and he's divorced himself from the academic world so that he could do this without any set rigors placed upon him by the academic world. And I never really realized, I thought as I read his work back in the States that this is a unique man.
And when I came here and started observing and learning more, this man is historical. This is a historical author, a historical scientist. And it's been a pleasure for my life to be a part of it.
Richard: Bob Butler joins us for the final portion of our Thinking with Somebody Else's Head program for this week on the Positive World Radio Network. Back in a moment.
The audience is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
Richard: And we are back, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Positive World Radio Network. Really hope you're enjoying the show. You know, I feel we have so many things to share with you from our International Society of Analytical Trilogy. And I don't know if I try to cram it all into one program.
It's almost impossible to do. So I hope by giving you a taste of things, hopefully a deep level, you get a feel for the work that's going on here in Norberto Keppe's Science of Analytical Trilogy. This is a phenomenal body of work. I can tell you that very sincerely. Over 30 books, my gosh, it could be close to 40 now. He writes a book a year.
Guy's in his 80s. He still sees clients, does group psychoanalysis twice a week, writes a book a year, sometimes two books a year, does one television program per week, a radio program per week. Incredibly prolific man. All of his work at the top level of philosophical, theological, and psychological thought. Last time he was in Austria, he had some formation in Austria, spending a couple of years with Viktor Frankl there, and Igor Karuso as well.
Last time he was there, about five or six years ago, they told him that his psychology was 25 years in front of what they were doing there. So that gives you some idea of the scope of his work. And our conversation today with Bob Butler, I hope, is giving you more of a perspective of how we use Dr. Keppe's work in a practical sense.
We do a lot of work with coaching. We're developing many seminars and programs here that we work with Dr. Keppe's work in specific business applications and personal development applications. And I would always love to talk to you more about those kinds of things. So, you know, if you want to get in touch with me, if you have any questions or comments or want to explore more Dr.
Keppe's work, we're certainly free for you to do that. My special email I've set up for this program only is joneshealing at gmail.com. Feel free to write me there. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
There are a lot of resources there.
We've tried to develop the site, to design the site based on on themes of human activity with a trilogical perspective. So you can find our perspective on spirituality, on the Keppe motor, on science, on psychology, on health, those kinds of key areas. Feel free to go to that site and browse around and send us some suggestions, too, of what more you'd like to see there.
This is always great input. We're always happy to hear from you. Again, joneshealing at gmail.com.
Okay, let's go back and find out more about Bob Butler's experience here with the International Society of Analytical Trilogy and our Millennium Language Schools. It's always fascinating to hear other people's perspective of their experience when they were here. What you do every day for a living, they have a different perspective on.
What is it about Keppe's science? Are there any principles that have really stood out to you as you've been studying here for the last three months?
Bob: The concept really of inversion, which is easy to understand but hard to admit that it exists, which many of Keppe's discoveries. And again, what people have to realize is that this just hasn't been pulled out of the air.
This is what's known really in the field of medicine as empiric. This is years of working with patients and taking prolific notes and following the course of these patients.
Richard: And deep study of other philosophers and theologians and psychoanalysts, too.
Bob: And he's put it all together. And these psychopathologies are common traits in all individuals. Even those who think that they are so perfect but they exist in everyone.
Even in the people who you would visit on the street with or your good friends and you love them dearly these exist in everyone. What is
Richard: this inversion how do you explain this now so that people can understand it can you do that it may be impossible to get a grip. Take a stab at it.
Bob: I think for me, it's really that we live in a world that's upside down.
We tell ourselves that things are good. We tell ourselves that we're so great. And in reality, what we're really telling ourselves, because we're looking out at the exterior, we're looking at the external world, and when things are good out there, well, we're good. If things are bad, we blame the external world. And in reality, it's deep within us. And all we have to do is conscientize, to be aware, and to process this, to find out that really the way that it is externally, we've created.
And that transmits back to us internally. It's hard to explain. I know it is. But the world is definitely upside down. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. And I was thinking of a,
Richard: I was doing a little class the other day about economics, Bob, in my business class, and we were talking about the the emphasis on profit, money above everything else. And I was remembering a saying from Wall Street where they say profit is more important than your mother.
And that's an example kind of like of this inversion, more important than our mother. I think there's something we could argue
Bob: there. Yeah, and and that should be an awareness, that statement right there, to the people listening. And when we place money to be more important than family friends, that that tells us something, we're pretty sick. And granted we have, we have a need, you know, to have those funds available for housing and food, but but to place it before family friends children whatever, that's pretty sick.
Yeah, this is very important
Richard: to stress this. The money is an absolutely wonderful, useful thing. But when we've inverted the value of it, we put it above nature, above the development of human beings, because society is completely stopped because of this thing of money. We haven't got money to do any kind of development to fix up the society. We have lots of money for war and war games and war toys, and we have lots of money for those kinds of things.
But to really improve our society, we don't. There's a big inversion there in how we use money.
Bob: And really, with the enterprises here, with Analytical Trilogy, Millennium, they take those funds and they help people. They have money for themselves, not outstanding sums, but they have everything that they need. They have food, they have housing, they have clothing, and again, all paid for by the company.
Transportation, it's there, and what a great way to live it really is. And they don't have, and and they're debt-free
Richard: completely. Yeah, no banks have any hooks into us at all, which
Bob: is good. And that is something that, you know, north americans, because you being from canada, me being from the United States, this desire to want more, this consumption, we need to get a control of it, people, because if we don't, the banks will own everything.
What's happening in the United States with mortgage foreclosures, and granted, people need to be responsible. Yet, if I recall, the United States taxpayers, we bailed the banks out when they were in need, and there's people in need in the States where, quite frankly, they're being tossed out instead of being helped out.
Richard: Let's talk just a little bit. You're a practical guy, and we don't have so much time here.
You're a practical guy, and you've seen a real application for the Keppe motor. And this is kind of exploding in Germany as we speak. And I want to just get your impressions about how this new technology, what you understand of it, and how you think it could be useful to Americans. As
Bob: you know, I'm not really an expert in it, but what I feel and what I've seen, anytime one can take a motor for like a fan or ceiling fan or whatever application it may be, and you can reduce the energy consumption by 77%, I think, some of the studies I've seen, without sacrificing the revolutions per minute.
And in some cases, those have been improved over and above other standards. That spells one thing, savings, big money savings. And it also spells fear, fear for the big power companies, the electric companies, because when they charge for, example, heating in the United States during the winter, we all know if it's a bad winter, that price is going up. But a motor like this, and by the way, this motor doesn't get hot.
It stays cool to the touch, which that in itself is amazing. But, for example, to heat a home and to be able to reduce your energy consumption by 70%. I can tell you this, my wallet is singing, thank you, Keppe Motor. I'm in too. And the power companies are saying, uh-oh, we've got something coming our way that is going to reduce our revenues.
Keppe has done
Richard: something amazing in the area of physics, and that is invert, to use this word you were talking about before, to invert the Newtonian and Einsteinian physics that we have today, which says that energy comes from material. Energy does not come from material. There is another source of energy, a free energy, that this Keppe motor, the inventors have managed to develop based on Keppe's ideas, that allows us to capture energy from space and not use all the energy from the electromagnetic grid, and this makes enormous savings.
But it's a revolution in science. It's much more than just energy savings, Bob. It's like a profound uh difference in how we see energy. Now we don't have to go digging for more oil all the time, destroying our planet, looking for more sources of energy through the material, because the energy doesn't come from the material. Yeah,
Bob: and you know in the success literature and a lot of literature it talks about how abundant the earth is.
Well, there's there's only so much oil and there's only so much natural resources, and if we don't wake up as as a community in the world, one day they're not going to be here. And uh this particular motor, this, this is natural. This is true. This is just unbelievable. And like I said, the standards of it have been getting recognition from around the world and recently when they were in Germany.
And again, a lot of this science, and correct me if I'm wrong, Richard, and really from metaphysics standpoint, came from Germany. Yeah,
Richard: that's right. The ancient philosophy and theology is very much, Keppe has followed the Greeks, but then Kant, Hegel, these great German philosophers too.
Bob: So when the people, the engineers, Cesar Soós and Alberto Frascari, when they went to Germany, they were applauded and recognized because they have a true understanding of this science and what it could do.
And just, it's just unbelievable. It's kind of hard to really express in words.
Richard: What do you want to do when you return? What are your sort of plans and goals, your ideals when you get back to the United States?
Bob: Well, I'm going to catch up with the family and my wife and my grandchild and grandchildren and process this information. I will continue to communicate with the people here and continue with my analysis because I believe it's good.
And then I hope to step out and start sharing some of this information, expose the people, because I have a lot of people who know that I'm here and they're all surprised that I'm staying for three months or was here for three months. And they're going to be asking a lot of questions, and I'm going to encourage them to read the books with an open mind and see for themselves.
You had some personal results here too, didn't you? You lost a bit of weight, didn't you?
Richard: I did lose, I did. I've lost a fair amount of weight. He now weighs less than me, which is kind of like shocking to me, but this is fantastic.
Bob: Yeah, I was surprised when we got on the scale, you and I, the
Richard: other day, and I was less than you because that wasn't the case when I
Bob: arrived.
But no, because of the, really, because of the work. And folks, these people work from like 6.20 in the morning when they leave their building, their residence, and arrive, and we don't get home until 10 o'clock at night. This is Monday through Friday, a short day on Saturday. It's not bad. It's about 7 o'clock to 5. But they work, and they're in action.
And I think my nutrition was just as good. I never was without, but bottom line is through the great food here, the fruit that's just abundant, I dropped about 16 kilos, which if my memory serves me correctly is 2.2 times 16. Over 30 pounds. Yeah, and I feel very good. So my wife's getting a new version, I guess you could say.
Richard: And you're looking good too, Bob.
Well that was interesting next week on our program we have a very very wonderful interview with Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco about energetic ... About the state of the world and about what we can do to make things better. This, of course, is the goal of our program, right? To help people have the consciousness to live better, more effective, and helpful lives. I hope the program's helping you.
This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Richard Lloyd Jones signing off and talk to you next time. Bye-bye for now. The audience
is listening to Positive World Radio, the authentic voice of planet Earth.
