Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and welcome to another episode of Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
We come to you weekly with the essential consciousness necessary to create a true society. Something idealists have strived to create for centuries with little success. Orwell was rather skeptical about revolution. No advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimeter nearer, he said.
There are two points to say about that. One is that he is suggesting something about the inner struggle of man. We're born for happiness, but we reject it at every turn. This is an issue of human psychology, which we discuss frequently on our show. But there's a perverse power structure in control, too, which dominates us because the sickest people are there. This is a sociopathological view, and an understanding of both these aspects can be had through Norberto Keppe's science of psychosociopathology called Analytical Trilogy.
The pathway to a new society today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. You know, the movement for the Liberation of the People that's bursting forth all around the world was actually born in 1986. And we could make an argument that these uprisings are actually the completion of the democratic movements initiated in the 1700s in France and the U.S. Those revolutions, in all their force, were democratic movements of the people, breaking free of the chains of tyranny.
And they had inspiration. Thomas Paine, Voltaire, Rousseau, Ben Franklin, Patrick Henry, these are names enshrined in our memories. In more recent times, characters like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, JFK, Mandela, have inspired us to rise from our selfishness and our armchairs to march and resist and overthrow the despots. These movements have happened with great organization and strategy. Compelling wisdom and intelligence have guided human society to stunning victories.
But these movements are also energetic, resonant. It's like a collective anguish and suffering builds up over time to a point where everyone arrives at the same state of mind and it overflows into collective action. A book or a speech or a pivotal action, like refusing to give up a seat on a bus or burning a draft card make concrete a smoldering resentment at a gross injustice that bursts into flames suddenly.
It's like all at once what we accepted and tolerated we no longer do and the walls of repression crumble to the ground. In 1986, after three years in the U.S. Absorbing the culture and observing firsthand the dangerous orientation the U.S. Was following in listening to Milton Friedman's extraordinarily misguided Reaganomics. Psychoanalyst and social scientist Norberto Keppe wrote a seminal book that I put in the same category as the other inspirational pamphlets and actions that spurred social change.
As Abbie Emanuel Joseph Saez's seminal pamphlet, What is the Third Estate?, became the rallying point for the French Revolution, Keppe's Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, is in many ways the rallying cry for the Occupy movement and the Arab Spring. It is, in fact, nothing less than the manifesto for the Liberation of the People and the creation of a new society.
Brilliantly conceived and poetically written, Keppe's book is the first psychological study of the pathology of people with power, psychotics who are impeding human development and destroying society. To my knowledge, it's the first publication that makes mention of the 99% being controlled by the 1%, a core slogan of the Occupy movement. But its value goes far beyond this. In Liberation of the People, Keppe is laying out a stunning critique of the economic power structure that dominates the world today.
Its premise is not based on advancing a political agenda or furthering another theory, like what emerges from academic think tanks or popular success literature authors. No, Keppe's work is based on a metaphysical Socratic Christian dialectic, which makes it universal and scientific. This is not another book of opinion. It's a psychologically scientific analysis of the current power structure and our collusion with it that has never been conducted before or equaled since.
And as such it is the true inspiration and foundation for the democracy we have struggled for since the Jewish tribes wandered out of Egypt. I consider Keppe's work in Liberation of the People to be the roadmap we need to effect lasting change. Without this consciousness, in fact, there is a real danger that the Occupy movements will become usurped by the powerful, that they'll use the slogans and trends the Occupy movements adopt and represent and find a way to spin these into their global agenda.
If we don't understand Keppe's psychological analysis of the unbalanced people in power, we'll be in danger again of the furniture being rearranged but no real change ensuing. And I think what's most important and what should have any concerned citizen up in arms is how Keppe's book has been denied a place in the academic libraries and popular bookstores. And that, my friend, is a major problem.
Keppe's book, written in 1986, has many ideas and an analysis of the roots of the crisis that would have helped us avoid the economic and social collapse we're facing now. And that book was buried, along with the persecution of Norberto Keppe and Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco and the Analytical Trilogy team with him in New York in the mid-1980s. This actually was a crime against humanity.
But, happily, Keppe's book never completely went away. It's still there, ready for us to read and learn from, so we finally complete the democratic movements begun and aborted in the 18th century.
And we've also mounted a call-to-action campaign using the inspirational intro to his magnificent book.
You can help that to go viral. That would be great, actually, because it's of utmost importance to activists, leaders, and concerned citizens the world over.
My personal email is joneshealing at gmail.com if you want any more information. I would love you to print out this PDF copy into a little booklet and hand it out to people who are protesting in the various Occupy cities around the world.
Neighbors, communities that you're aware of, people who are activists who are interested in creating a new society. They really need to have this scientific basis behind them if they're to act more completely and more effectively in the world today. We have to get this book out there now, so do do that, okay?
He's off to New York now to join the movement there and help to spread Dr. Keppe's ideas to bring some consciousness of the psychopathology of the people in power to help the people who are mounting this protest in New York. And Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco joins me as well with her always insightful analysis of Dr. Keppe's work. That's when we return on the Conscious Planet Radio Network on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
Back in a moment. Don't go away. We are talking today with Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco. Gilbert Gambucci has joined me, too, who's just heading off to New York. You must be excited about that, Gilbert. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Your bags
Gilbert Gambucci: are packed? Ready as can be.
Richard: And last night, Cláudia, Dr. Keppe made reference to when you guys moved to France. He told a very kind of a funny story when you guys were in a taxi cab and the taxi driver said, well, what are you guys doing in France?
And Dr. Keppe said, I'm here to complete the French Revolution.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Right. And the
Richard: guy almost had an attack. He almost had a heart attack. He said, oh,
Cláudia: my God, we don't want anything to do with that. But I thought about that, that
Richard: really struck me last night, because in a way, Dr. Keppe is completing the democratic movements that began in
Cláudia: the late 1700s and that were usurped, hijacked by the powerful, led by the secret societies and probably by the evil spiritual influences.
And so in a way, Dr. Keppe wasn't really joking, was he? No, he was not. Of course, he was not meaning to the guillotine or something or arms or anything, but he's really certain. He's really sure that during his lifetime, he will see still. He's already in his 84, but he's sure that he will see the world becoming new or going back to almost a paradise.
Where people can live together, share their richnesses, their good actions, beauty, good, truth, happiness, whatever. We can share everything good that we were supposed to be sharing amongst brothers and sisters and everybody in equality and as the French Revolution said, égalité, fraternité et liberté. We don't have it still. And people, the peoples are ready for that. But the powerful don't let us live and organize a society according to this trifold idea.
Richard: Yeah. Now, we have a lot of movements around the world now. Movements all through the Arab world. Movements through Europe now. And especially the one that's impressing us in Brazil is this incredible movement on Wall Street. And I was thinking about this as people are rallying, gathering together, protesting, what is it they need to know to be more
Cláudia: effective? Well, I think that intuitively they are knowing many things already, that they want democracy, they want fairness, they want justice, they want freedom, they want the minimum, at least, to have a decent digna.
Dignity.
Richard: Dignity. And opportunity. Dignified life.
Cláudia: Dignified life. So they know they deserve, they know they can. They could have already. It's in our hands. So we could have a very developed life already in this planet. We don't because of the pathological powerful people that are impeding, hindering us from usufructing.
Richard: Yeah, taking advantage of.
Cláudia: Of our rights, our planet, nature, life, humanity, society, arts, science.
Everything belongs to the people. But they took the power, they own, I legally own everything that was developed by geniuses, by scientists, by journalists, artists, workers. Everything was developed by people.
Richard: Even by God, they take the
Cláudia: water and pay with it. For sure, nature and all the means.
Richard: So they don't, they are usurpadores. Usurpers. Usurpers. I was
Cláudia: going to say rapers, but usurpers.
Of all this richness. And now people are starting to, oh, oh, wakening up. It's a huge wakening up. But my concern is that if they don't have a solid scientific structure of discoveries and thoughts and philosophy and science, they will get a little bit lost in what they should do now in practice. What to do next. They are doing the critics very well and they are knowing how to criticize, but it's missing a scientific understanding of why people do this when they get power.
So that's the analysis of the pathology of power that Keppe wrote. And I'm afraid that if some groups take the power and overthrow the other ones, they will do the same or similar in the future.
Richard: Well, this is what happened in the French Revolution. It was lost, wasn't
Cláudia: it? Everywhere happens the same yeah so Keppe foresaw these possibilities and he wrote a book which is all specialized in studying the pathology of power.
And there is this uh syndrome of the small power too, which uh people from like persons or individuals from the people. When they have a little power, they can be even a a doorman. If they have the power to let people come in and out, they will exert this
Richard: power in a pathological way many times. You see this was secretaries and bosses right
Cláudia: really so and inspectors they can be so evil so so criminal so inhuman like when they act because they have this syndrome of the small power.
So understanding how power works in our brain, in our mind, it's very important. And Keppe wrote this book all about the pathology of power. And so people understand that this is a sickness. People in power are really sick people. So it's not only because many people from the masses or they are envious of those people in power. They think that those powerful people, they are taking all the advantages and they are in a very good situation and they are like, well, they have everything.
In one term, in one sense, they have. They stole everything from us, but they don't enjoy it. They are sick. They don't have the capacity to enjoy it. So don't envy a powerful. They are totally unhappy. They are unbalanced. They are sadistic. They lost the capacity to feel love, to feel good feelings, to be human. So they lost their links with God.
So that's why Jesus said, it's more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than a camel pass.
Richard: Through the eye of a needle. Yeah.
Cláudia: You asked
Richard: me the one religious expression that I know, so
Cláudia: I'm very happy. So they psychologically lost all their capacity to be human, to enjoy life, to love, to be loved, to be happy.
Richard: Could I just say, so this is interesting, and Gilbert will come to you in a minute, but I want to say something else that struck me this morning, Cláudia, as to why we don't notice what's going on.
Because, you know, sometimes I'll talk to people in Canada and I'll say, well, look, there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that, and we say, oh, no, it's not like that. If the problem was that easy to solve, they would have solved it by now. And in other words, they ascribe like good intentions to people in power. And I'm thinking that this is something that we haven't understood as human beings, that there are such things as inversion, envy, theomania that Dr.
Keppe talks about, these pathologies that cause us to do things that are bad without perceiving what we're doing. And we don't understand that in ourselves, so we don't understand it in them.
Cláudia: Because this seed of the wish for power and this envy and greediness is inside all of us.
Richard: Yes, yes.
Cláudia: So if we are aware of this, if we have ethics enough, spirituality enough, we can hold back this greediness and this wish for power, desire for power.
So we can understand this, we can recognize, we can diagnose, so we hold back. But those crazy, nasty lunatics that took the power, they dedicate their lives to deceive other people, to use a perfect mask, to lie to people. And these deceptions are so, like, imagine Hitler. Imagine all those presidents of the United States that before they were elected, they said so many lies.
And they manipulated the minds of the masses. And the masses believed them. So now it's the time when people will not be naive enough to do this again and again, and they will be conscious that we have inside of ourselves this horrible seed of this wish of being God-like in practice. It's not only a metaphor, it's practical. Some of those powerful people, they think they are like, they are God-like or they are even above God.
They rule the world. They are the rulers of the world and rulers of nature. So they are totally theomaniac, totally delirious. So if we realize this danger inside of ourselves and inside of other people, oh my God, we will be more careful.
Richard: Gilbert, you know, this is a theme that you talk a lot about, the pathology of power. This is something you feel is essential for the North American people to understand.
Talk a little bit more about your vision of that in studying with Dr. Keppe's work. How do you see that?
Gilbert: Yeah, just listening to Dr. Cláudia now, I've heard some people around Wall Street saying, well, where's our bailout? And, you know, this kind of added to, well, we want what the powerful there took. And so we have to be careful of this.
We do have this pathology in us as well. Not to the point that these mentally disturbed people have, but we need to be careful of that, to recognize that in ourselves so that we can control that and do what is the real liberation for ourselves.
Richard: Which will be liberation from these pathological people. From this. And also understanding of our own pathology.
Cláudia: So I would like to tell our listeners that Gilbert is with us since 1984 or 3.
Richard: Around there. Around there. Don't have to date it too much.
Cláudia: So he's witnessing all the developments of Dr. Keppe's work. And when we left the United States to Europe, he went with us, with a group of followers. And he came to Brazil because of this, mostly because of this discovery that Dr. Keppe did. And all this wish that Dr. Keppe had to start this Liberation of the People movement in New York City and in
Gilbert: America.
And now we see the seeds blooming after 25 years. In the same place.
Cláudia: In Manhattan. Now, read this here, Gilbert. Do you remember we had a team of people picketing and distributing these flyers in New York City in 1986?
Richard: Cláudia's holding
Cláudia: up some placards that
Richard: they used in the
Cláudia: 1980s. 1986.
Gilbert: You know, you just walked in with these, and I recognize this.
We used to post them around here's one that says we have the power why are women children Children. Blacks. Jews. Artists. Youngsters. Farmers. The elderly. Workers and scientists. All those who suffer. 99% of mankind so separated while the 1% who exploit and enslave them are so united in their deranged bad intentions. So here it's a direct reference to the 99% of the 1%.
Yes,
Cláudia: yes. Dr. Keppe started with that.
Gilbert: Before anybody else did.
Cláudia: Yes, and you know why we were talking about this in Central Park, Dr. Keppe and myself, and I remember, I said, come on, Keppe, they speak about women as a minority, Jews as a minority, black as a minority, homosexuals as a minority, artists a minority, what else? Elderly minorities. Elderly, yeah. But
Richard: if we get together, we are the majority.
Yeah.
Cláudia: And then Keppe, yes. A
Richard: whole bunch of minorities. All of this
Cláudia: is 99%. This is 99%. So we started to write this, and he wrote in this book in many, many places about this. So it's registered in the National Library that he started this movement in New York.
Richard: 1986.
Cláudia: 1986.
Richard: And this book, Liberation of the People, still my favorite of Keppe's books.
I love many of his books. And
Cláudia: that's why you are here, by the
Richard: way. I'm totally here because of this. In Brazil. Yeah,
Cláudia: in Brazil, and with you guys. And
Richard: I feel like Gilbert, that this is something that's not talked about. And we are very naive about how power is used in North America. Do you have another one to read? Yes, this.
Yeah, another one to
Cláudia: read. Here's
Richard: another one.
Gilbert: Let's see. I haven't seen this one for 25 years. Let's see. What is your profession? And then check the answer. There's the blocks to check. Exploiter? No. Exploited? Yes. Freedom fighter for humanity? Yes, two. If you checked the third answer, join the march for the Liberation of the People. And then there's a date. What date?
Cláudia: October 25th. What? Oh, okay. So
Gilbert: it was 86. 86. 11 a.m. The year of the launching of this book. At the U.N. At the U.N. So will
Cláudia: you be there on the 25th?
Gilbert: October 25th? Yes, I think so. It's the 20th
Cláudia: now. So maybe you will
Richard: be there with this leaflet. Wouldn't that be something? So we're back in just a moment with Gilbert Gambucci, Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco.
Our program is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on the Conscious Planet Radio Network. Back in just a moment. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, the name of our program.
My name is Richard Lloyd Jones. We are about to complete a fascinating conversation today about Norberto Keppe's book, Liberation of the People.
This is a phenomenal book. And Gilbert Gambucci is heading off to New York very soon to take that book and the ideas to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Gilbert, give us a bit of a taste of what you're going to take to the people there in New York.
Gilbert: You know, I have the bomb in front of me now. We call this book the bomb because anyone who reads it, your perception of the world will never be the same.
You're not the same again.
Cláudia: And many Americans used to say when we were there, they said, I can't, I can't, I cannot read this book. I suffer because I can't believe this is true. And now they know. They have this
Gilbert: in their skin, as we say in Portuguese. They know this is true. They are suffering what is written here. Now, only the courageous can read this book, to put it simply, you know.
And I'm looking just after the call to action in the next part. And I don't know, there's just a little paragraph here. Dr. Keppe writes, The youth movement of the 60s and 70s began in this country because the students wanted a new world to live in, a world where, like rolling stones, they could go anywhere they wanted without restrictions. They clamored for a free world they could traverse at will.
They wanted peace, not cannons, flowers, not bombs. Indeed, such a world is possible. Only if we ourselves create it instead of attempting to change those who are in control with all their power.
Cláudia: Yes, and so wonderful. Beautiful. And that's what we have been doing, Gilbert, since then, creating a kind of a small oasis. Oasis. Oasis inside the Sikh society. We did not disconnect from society, but we create special situations for us to live, like our own enterprises where the workers are the owners as we had this saying in New York's trilogical enterprises in New York City.
Everybody saw those trucks going back and forth. Do you remember Speed Company about to move? So there are some pictures, some movies taken in Manhattan where you can see those trucks traveling in Broadway, Fifth Avenue because they created their own companies. Not only moving companies and speed companies like delivering packages,
Richard: but they had
Cláudia: floor sanding, hairdresses,
Richard: cleaning companies,
Cláudia: renovation companies, paperwork,
Richard: wallpapering companies,
Cláudia: painting companies.
Yes, also travel agents and 17 different kind of trilogical companies. In four
Gilbert: years. And these companies tried and tested where you are not exploited and you don't exploit. Yeah, and there
Cláudia: is no speculation also. So, Keppe created a dialectic, a new dialectic in social economy. And like he created a dialectic where exploitation is neutralized and speculation is annulled. No speculation. So people who work in those companies, they make their money, they earn their lives according to their work and not to the capital invested.
And this is really something because it makes a company grow incredibly fast to get together and start a trilogical enterprise, a trilogical company where the workers are the owners.
Gilbert: And where there's no one there extracting the profits on the top, the money stays within the company. So, you earn much better, actually.
Cláudia: And you invest in the company back. So, your company will be stronger and stronger and give solidity to the workers who own the company.
So, this is really… This is a real model. And we continue this in Paris, in London,
Richard: in Sweden, in Finland, in Lisbon. And then when we came to Brazil, we formed new trilogical companies here, like cooperatives. Cooperatives, trilogical cooperatives. I know when Bob Butler was here, he was very impressed with how these companies are structured. He saw a real possibility for Americans, because Americans are very industrious people.
Cláudia: They're active.
Richard: Yeah, if they catch hold of this idea, the idea, we got this crazy idea, Gilbert, somewhere along the way, that we need to make money by doing nothing or doing as little as possible.
Cláudia: And they are waiting for the government to change and change the laws. We have, and Keppe describes here in this book, how to create like a new society at the side of the other one and to make it grow and to make it more and more solid. So people will get like in a better situation without having to wait for the changes that will never, never come from the top.
Gilbert: Yes. Oh, Dr. Cláudia, this is the basic strategy of the solution of this book to create a parallel economy, but not like in a megalomania like you have to create big companies. No, two or three people working together to provide a service or a product, whatever it is. And you just go developing your company. Because we're trained to think that there's only capitalism or socialism.
There's no other possibility, you know.
Cláudia: But that's, of course, there are other possibilities. There is this third possibility. And this is a scientifically based possibility, how to do this.
Gilbert: And as a result, if people begin doing this, then, of course, the nation is going to buy the services, products, whatever you provide. Your work from the 99%. Yes. And bit by bit, we can begin to isolate these crazy people who are causing all of these problems.
You know, because when I think of this, I think that people are thinking, well, wait
a minute. How are you going to make a shoe company that's going to serve 200, 300 million people? But you don't do that. You create a shoe company that serves your little community, and somebody else creates a shoe company that serves their little community. It's a much less megalomaniac, as you said.
It's much more
Cláudia: practical. Local solutions for local necessities.
Richard: Yes, exactly, Cláudia. This is very beautiful. Because,
Cláudia: you know, we have huge tracts of land that are completely empty.
Richard: Nobody's in, owned by some big conglomerates. And
Cláudia: you know what? People can be a partner without investing capital, with their work. So where the workers are the owners and what work is valued.
Richard: But this happened to me, Cláudia.
I came into this structure with no money invested, and I came into the structure, and I immediately began to work and then participate in the process of buying things as a company, of receiving money from the enterprise, with no...
Cláudia: In many companies, there are bankrupt, having bankrupt...
Richard: Becoming bankrupt. Becoming bankrupt.
Cláudia: Yep, going bankrupt. And now we are speaking about middle-size, small-size industry and middle-size industry.
Richard: And medium-size companies, yeah. Sorry for you. It's okay. We're helping. I
Cláudia: live in Brazil, and I'm a
Richard: Brazilian. You speak beautifully in English. Your English is better than our Portuguese.
Cláudia: That's for sure. So we had a company here in Brazil that built windows, iron windows. You know those frames? Yeah. And...
Richard: Rot iron window frames.
Cláudia: Janelas in general.
Richard: Yeah, windows in general. General types of windows.
Different types of
Cláudia: windows. Outside and inside windows, whatever. And the guy was going bankrupt. So he knew he was Dr. Keppe's client. So he said, instead of going bankrupt and giving up my business that I'm working for so many years, I'm going to transform it into a trilogical enterprise. And how did he do that? He offered the workers a chance to become a kind of partners, not only having more profits, sharing the profits of the company, but also investing with the work up to when the company would, like, everybody would act like an owner and a partner, you know?
In this sense, we must also be careful because it's some kind of discipline and hierarchy.
Richard: Hierarchy is necessary.
Cláudia: Is necessary. Yeah. It's not a place where everybody is the owner, so everybody is the boss and everybody will fight for their own ideas. Discipline and the the boss must be respected or the bosses otherwise the company will happen the same thing that happened in the communist countries where the workers took the companies and they destroy it.
So this is a big danger to control the pathology of power amongst the workers and so and how do
Richard: we do that
Cláudia: and then you need a course is training training people have to study these discoveries. And we have weekly meetings where people learn more and they become more conscious of the dangers of these pathologies and they can also control each other.
Richard: And I'm thinking of people who are listening who are thinking, wow, that's a great idea, but how do I do it? We have consultants.
Cláudia: Yeah, it's like a consciousness of errors workshops. So people will conscientize their problems, their weaknesses, their errors every week to go ahead with the company. But it works. It works. And the company not only did not went bankrupt, but it also went up.
Gilbert: And in fact, people who are serious about learning about this, Dr. Klauser, they can come here to Brazil, can't they?
Cláudia: Yes, sure. They
Richard: can. We can teach them. We can train them. Look, we have so many technological tools now. We can do teleconferences. Also.
Cláudia: There's many ways we can do this. We can start by teleconferences. Sure. Skype
Richard: conferences. We can even do like meetings where they're facilitated by one of our experts in dealing
Cláudia: with their team problems or difficulties.
Yes, and when Gilbert goes there, he will be able also to teach many things. And I have one student, she was saying, what if one of our teachers go there, if everybody's like doing nothing in this square waiting for some change, A teacher goes there, sits there with them, gathers a group of them, and starts studying Dr. Keppe's books. So they will learn and become conscious of many things, and it will be useful.
Like standing there.
Richard: Instead of sitting around singing Kumbaya, which we did in the 60s, we could be
Cláudia: studying, reading, learning
Richard: how to
Cláudia: create our own people's socioeconomic
Richard: structure. Our new society. And
Cláudia: Kumbaya also.
Richard: And Kumbaya also.
Cláudia: Give us a musician so he wants to
Richard: get kumbaya in there.
Cláudia: Yes. Arts, it's like a food for the soul.
Richard: And we're talking about, I don't know if I mentioned, you're going to New York, so you're going to be there.
Are
Cláudia: you going to invite them for your Consciousness concerts for the Liberation of the People?
Gilbert: Of course. I don't know. I don't have any dates for that yet, but I know that Lynn is setting something up. Yeah. And I just want to say that. Are you
Cláudia: going to play Brazilian music for them?
Gilbert: I always include some Brazilian things.
Cláudia: Good. They like,
Gilbert: they enjoy.
I love it. They like a lot of people. Yeah. And especially Francisco Gonzaga, because she's not known outside of Brazil. She's a famous female composer here of very, very traditional Brazilian music. A Chiquinha Gonzaga.
Cláudia: Yeah.
Gilbert: I play her always. I just have a thought. We have our international center here. It's a hotel. In the countryside, beautiful, mountainous countryside. Perfect for this. With exotic
Cláudia: tropical birds, and you can't believe where we have our...
Many Tucanos, Bob. I love the
Gilbert: Tucanos. The fruit loop birds, as we might
Richard: say. The Tucans.
Gilbert: And for people who are serious, you can come here and study this science. Yeah. And you know, I was just thinking, Rich, one obstacle that people put in their minds is, well, how can I start up my own little business if I don't have any capital?
And the thing is, you don't need capital to start working. You can start with little or no capital because money comes
Cláudia: from the work. It's not the other way around. Let me give an idea for them how the first trilogical enterprise started in New York City.
Richard: Yes, good idea.
Cláudia: So, a group of five or six men that used to be drivers of a company.
Richard: They worked for a moving company, as I
Cláudia: understand it.
Richard: They were moving furniture.
Cláudia: They got together and they said, We are forming our own company. So go ahead. We put together our money of the five or the six. We leave aside
Richard: a little
Cláudia: bit of money, buy a truck and one starts and he will make the profits for all eventually. Like, OK, so one is starting.
Everybody's waiting and continue working. They continue working for the other company, for the other companies. And that one will make the profit,
Richard: the full profits for this new company. And he
Cláudia: will take the sufficient, the enough to just for the minimum expenses that he will have. And the rest will be reinvested in the company. So promotion and telephone. Buying another truck.
Richard: Buying another truck.
And then the second comes in. And then the third comes in. And then a large company will be ready soon. I love this because it's, yeah, it's incredible. You see, you're working now not to bring people into work for you, to bring people into work with you. It's a whole different energy. It's extraordinary, this. It is. It's beautiful. It is. Thank
Cláudia: you for taking time out of your very busy day, Cláudia, to join us.
Thank you to be with you. Great pleasure. I feel I am in New York City being here.
Richard: Yeah, okay, well, all right. And Gilbert, you're going there. You have to report back frequently, okay, because we want to know what's happening. Will do, Rich. Yeah, we're going to create a blog of some sort that people can participate in. A call to action blog.
Yeah, a call to action where Gilbert and I
Cláudia: and Cláudia and other people can post things so you see what we're doing there. Because this science needs to get to the people if we really want to create a new society. That's what we're doing. And Richard, Dr. Keppe says, it's now or never. It's now or never. And he means it. Now it's the last chance.
Richard: So bring thoughts for us here at the end of our program.
I hope you got some inspiration and want to join us in our Liberation of the People. All that information on our website.
Do join us. Talk to you next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Until then, Richard Lloyd Jones, great to have you with us. Bye-bye for now.
