Richard Lloyd Jones: How many times have we seen it? You're best friends with somebody at work when suddenly they get promoted and after this move upstairs they don't want to know you. They become aloof and unapproachable. Almost like they've become somebody else. What's actually happened is that the new power has liberated the pathology that always existed. They've started the very self-destructive process of selling out.
I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Power and the Loss of Ideals. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It was Lord Acton who supposedly first uttered those words back in the 19th century. But like Shakespeare's famous, to be or not to be, most have never heard what the insightful Lord Acton said next. It was, great men are almost always bad men.
Of course, this last would depend on how you define great men. If you limit that definition to men or women of material accomplishment, perhaps. But it's difficult to ascribe the word bad to those of a more altruistic and benevolent nature. Gandhi, Mozart, Puccini, Da Vinci, Mother Teresa, Jesus. It's difficult to accuse them of evil. But there appears to be something that happens to those who are linked too much to power.
And this is something Dr. Norberto Keppe has explored substantially in his writing, particularly in his book, Liberation of the People, The Pathology of Power, where Keppe turns his keen psychoanalytic mind on what goes on in power situations. He goes so far as to say, quote, the well-balanced individual is not interested in having power. Only those who are extremely sick become attached to positions of power and command, so as to counterbalance their psychological shortcomings, end of quote.
In this sense, Keppe is going a huge step beyond the usual, oh, he's crazy, which is normally how we denominate those in power who do ridiculous things. Keppe is analyzing this psychologically and is therefore providing a scientific view that goes well beyond the typical ideological divisions that govern whether we see a political or business move as positive or negative. And he points to this pathology of power as being the fundamental factor in our inverted and disturbed social life as well.
In his book, Sociopathology, he puts it this way, The core of sociopathology is the desire for power. Any individual who has unlimited power inevitably creates serious disorder because he is able to give free reign to all his psychopathology. End of quote. This really moves the debate to an area more linked to reason and analysis rather than just the usual emotional venting that occurs when talking about societal leadership.
This is leading-edge psychological work that Keppe is developing here.
Check it out and let me know what you think, rich at richjonesvoice.com. Today, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco from Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy is here to continue our discussion on power, particularly as linked to the loss of ideals and romanticism.
So your work, and for the last at least 20 years, maybe 30 years now, your direct work has been to confront this situation on the planet and to bring consciousness to the human being about this situation that exists. And there's been a lot of resistance in some circles to the work that you and Dr. Keppe have done. Not
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: only resistance, but we have been...
Richard: Resistance is a very polite word for what happened to
Cláudia: you. You were attacked directly. Yes, we have been for a long time. But if we give our backs to this situation, what will be left? For the world, even for ourselves if we corrupt. Because, you know, if people sell their lives, if people change their inner richness and the eternal richness they have for material.
Richard: If they exchange, oh yes, okay, like sell their soul to the devil as we talked, as they talked about in Faust and other stories.
Cláudia: Yes, if they choose to have some material goods or money or even numbers in the computer because you don't have conditions to carry all this money and to spend all this money those people have. So if they exchange this for their real richness, their balance, their well-being, their happiness, Their eternal life, if you want to say so, too.
They are giving up everything they have, which is more precious. A real beautiful good life for this nonsense, this material, sensorial things that they cannot even enjoy. They can only possess, but they don't enjoy what they have. This is not worth living.
Richard: Totally right. You know, when we're young, we sort of have a sense of this, you know. And I saw that I grew up in the 60s.
I'm a product of the 60s. I remember the feelings when I was a young teenager sitting outside looking at the stars and thinking, oh, there's got to be something more to life than just getting by, having a career. And not that that's wrong, but just having the material aspect of it, there has to be something more. And then we kind of lost track of that.
And in the 60s going into the 70s, then we had Reaganomics economics. And this whole establishment of making money by doing nothing, speculating, and you know, and this whole thing took away this idealism that the 60s kind of represented. This youth idealism, you know, that we don't see so much anymore. And you guys are, you and Dr Keppe and then the group here of Analytical Trilogy, are trying to I think rescue again, wake up this inner idealism that we used to have.
Saying, come on, shaking us through your books and your programs, programs like this.
Cláudia: Imagine, Richard, in the late 19th century, humanity was in a beautiful way up. We had this romanticism in the 19th century, where the composers did the best of music possible. So the romantics were Brahms, Beethoven, and we had those European centers of arts and romance and beauty and elegance. And not only that, but inventors were opening up to this incredible game of possibilities for humanity.
We had this fair, the London and the Paris Fair of Inventions. They expected the 20th century to be the century of enlightenment. And progress for humanity. So when they, they started in the early 20th century, they started all those movies in Hollywood, planning all those cities with those spaceships and all this organization and development and beauty. And but what did you see?
You saw a huge attack against all those ideals. And the 20th century characterized itself for its hard brutal materialism, right? We had the two big world wars and several other wars. We had the build-up of this military industry. We had the build-up of my pharmaceutical companies, agrotoxicos like toxic for
Richard: plants. And
Cláudia: we had the buildup of pollution, of banking system, the power of banking system.
Oil companies. Oil
Richard: companies, the fall down, atomic energy and waste. And we had the fall down
Cláudia: of ideals, of spirituality, and even of romance. So human beings became very, very poor the way they live. So romance was gone. So what is the purpose of a life without beauty and romance? Now
Richard: you're a nerd if you're romantic.
Cláudia: You're like you're outside the... If we took away love and romance from life and feelings, what is the purpose of this life?
No purpose. Even worse than animal life, because animals, they have some affection. They love their...
Richard: And they play. They
Cláudia: play and they are happy and they are in accordance to their nature, but we are not. We are not. So we now see that we have this possibility of rescuing all this beauty that was left behind and was cut off in the 20th century.
Like relinking with that restarting at that point that were things stopped when electricity even was developed
Richard: The Chicago World's Fair, when Tesla, they turned, they pushed a switch and the whole fair exploded into lighting, which had never been seen before. Can you imagine what that must have been
Cláudia: like? And you know what? Through these researches that Dr. Keppe did in his new physics, he sees that electricity may be very harmful.
The electrical waves, they can disturb human minds. And they do. And they do. So all our civilization is based in electricity. Now Keppe brings another form of energy, like grasping and taking advantage from a pure, free, green, natural, harmonizing energy from the space.
Richard: And we have to come back now to your discussion about the brain. This is the two-part energy that he's captured.
Cláudia: Not the one-part energy of electricity, but this second complementary component. So this is a big hope, Richard.
Richard: Finally, we're having hope again.
Cláudia: Yeah. And those machines, those motors that work with this energy, they don't work with electricity. They work with this energy from the space. And they tend to balance brains, the wave of brains. And they tend to energize water, nature, everything.
So imagine. So either now the world will develop this new technology and they wake up and they will be born again, or born for the first time with the correct use of the brain energy and the natural energy, or I don't know. I prefer not to think about this other
Richard: possibility. It's better to think about the possibilities. This is the spirit we want to bring here today.
But, you know, I'm thinking as you're speaking that this explains, you've explained, I think, why psychologically there was this whole period in the 80s, 90s of cynicism, irony. It became very hot when I was doing a lot of voiceover work in Toronto, New York. Everybody wanted that kind of ironic sound. Nobody cares about anything. Truth
Cláudia: is relative.
Richard: Yeah, this was the hot movement.
And the idea of being enthusiastic, being excited about something, you know, that was totally uncool. You couldn't be like that. So we see the young people in our classes today, and I'll say to them, hey, did you see the such-and-such movie? And they go, yeah. What did you think about it?
Cláudia: No vibration. It was okay. No vibration.
Richard: Nothing happening, Cláudia.
Cláudia: No vibration.
You know that? People that do this, they don't vibrate innerly. They don't have inner vibration. What characterizes the being is the vibration, the kind of vibration we have. And if our cells and our DNA don't vibrate in the pattern...
Richard: The normal standard,
Cláudia: right? ...that human beings have, we will become like monsters. And that's what we are becoming. We are even being deformed, physically deformed.
See the amount of cases of cancer, of those so-called neurologic degenerative diseases...
Richard: And
Cláudia: autoimmune diseases. And autoimmune also, that grew so much, like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, even AIDS, which is mostly a virotic, energetic kind of problem. We see that the world is deteriorating because of this inversion, inversion of perception, inversion of consciousness, inversion of energy. And
Richard: the Keppe Motor is one, just one approach, one path that's being followed through the work of Dr.
Keppe. One way of rescuing, but there are many. There are programs in arts, programs in education. There are new approaches in economics and how to structure businesses, how to structure residences. Incredible developments in psychosomatic medicine. All of these things are coming through Dr. Keppe's work now. And so what we're doing in this program, I think, is trying to let people know that there is a science.
Keppe says that in Liberation of the People. He says, what's been missing up to this point has been a science that explains what's happening, gives us the consciousness, and then offers alternatives. So we have finally a science Analytical Trilogy that really answers a lot of the questions we've had.
Cláudia: Yes. And been following Dr. Keppe's work for a lifetime. In my understanding, Richard, he, as you said, rescues, resurrects what was valuable in many people, in geniuses since the Greek times up to now.
And he not only does this, he analyzes the thinkers, the philosophers, the theories, the sciences, trying to disinvert what was inverted and what is inverted in all those systems. But he also offers a very fresh scientific approach of theology and spirituality, Christianity, Judaism, whatever you may call it. But a very fresh and scientific approach for religion, because understanding physics as he does, disinverting metaphysics and integrating the field of theology to physics, this is beautiful, incredible.
And this is a, a scientific way to understand God. So this for me is the first, it's not an like an alternative, it's not like an option, it is not a new theory,
Richard: it's like, uh, it is
Cláudia: life, yeah, the way it should have been since the beginning. So it's not easy to, to disinvert ourselves. It's not easy to disinvert society, disinvert the laws, and even disinvert putting good people on the top and bringing those crazy people to their places where they should be being led and being taken care of.
Controlled. Yeah. So those people should be treated by true psychoanalysts and trilogical psychoanalysts in order to become, to be human beings again, because they left their humanity back. So uh it's a way uh that I see a true life as it always have should have been. And it's a, it's, it's a possibility now. It's a possibility now we have, as I said, it's not easy, but it's, it's a possibility.
So we have to take it. If not we are dead, not physically dead, but
Richard: worse. Yeah, worse. Spiritually dead. Physically dead
Cláudia: might be a relief, but spiritually dead would be a disaster. We would be like many people who are already zombies, vampires, zombies. And it's not worth to live a life like this.
Richard: When we sell out, we lose a lot, don't we?
Maybe we need reminding of this so we can be more honorable. Norberto Keppe's work of Analytical Trilogy is here to help us do that. A bright light in our often dark society. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head I'm Richard Lloyd Jones talk to you next time
