Richard Lloyd Jones: Their idea is that they're indispensable. Most of us think the same thing. There's a general belief that without those in power, we'd have no one to protect us or look after our needs. But past citizens had a wiser view. They knew that those in power could be dangerous if not controlled. Now a Brazilian scientist is telling us the same thing. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head, Diagnosing the Sickness of Power.
Shakespeare praised those that have the power to hurt and yet will do none in a love sonnet. And oh, wouldn't it be fine to encounter that someday in a political figure. But more and more it seems that they fail us again and again. And like the football team, down 28 to nothing at the half, needs to reconsider its game plan, so too do we need to look with fresh eyes at power and the powerful.
Thankfully, there is a vast body of literature and analysis of all things human that accomplishes that much-needed perspective. And that's the remarkable science of Analytical Trilogy developed by a noteworthy Brazilian scientist named Norberto Keppe. When I first came across Keppe's exploration of the pathology of power in his book Liberation of the People, I was in my early 40s and locked into my career and feathering my nest as most of us think of doing.
But something in that book spoke deep to my dormant idealism and rekindled the spark that lies inside all of us. I think it was that part right at the beginning where Keppe states, we want to summon all of you who have a practical nature, all who possess idealism and dynamism, all who believe in goodness, truth, and beauty, to unite so that a new world can be built, a new society, the true kingdom of man on earth.
Wow, it gives me a rush even today. So nine years ago, I packed up all my stuff into a storage locker in Toronto and slept on down here to Brazil to discover for myself the cause of all the depth charges going off inside me every time I read Keppe's work. I'd like to share a little bit of that with you today. And if it lights your fire, invite you to get in contact with me so we can explore what we can do together to bring this idealism to more people and through resonance with these like-minded people contribute towards this kingdom of man on earth.
Rich at richjonesvoice.com is my email. I'd love to hear from you. Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is uniquely qualified to talk about the pathology of power. She lived through considerable attacks from the powerful in North America and Europe who didn't like what she and Keppe were writing about and teaching. She's with me here today. I was looking at your incredible book, The American Drug Multinational.
This is a bomb. Yes, it is. Dr. Keppe's book, Liberation of the People, is a bomb. Another bomb. Another bomb. There are bombs all over the place in Dr. Keppe's work. In this book, you say, we have to be careful of the criminals, highly dangerous, who have infiltrated communities and public bodies such as the government, the legal system, the police, the churches, the schools, mainly in positions of economic and public power.
They are much more dangerous than the drugs which they distribute. They are the psychotics and psychopaths described in the book Liberation of the People, the Pathology of Power, Keppe, Pacheco, and others, who act like demons to destroy civilization. So that is a huge bomb, and maybe we should start there. What is Dr. Keppe talking about? What are you talking about? What is the purpose for raising this at this time in our civilization today?
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Well, we rose this subject 20 years ago or more when we were living in the United States and then we went to Europe. But in the United States, we understood that the drug cartel and the drug business has been kept as something underground in order to achieve the goals that those people in power want to achieve. Because if you make something legal, things will come to the surface.
People have to pay taxes for what they sell, and you will know who is selling what, who is producing what, and who is consuming what. And we would have chances to deal openly, consciously about a huge problem. But what we realized in the United States is that all those people who were consciously active with their mental brain waves working properly in the still up to the 60s.
After this wave of drugs that like invaded the country and you cannot consider a problem that has no participation from people in the police, in customs, and in the charge in the head of banks and everywhere because, you know, this is an epidemic in the United States.
Richard: They show in the film American Gangster, they show actually bringing the raw heroin in the caskets of the dead soldiers from the Vietnam War out of Thailand during the early 1970s.
It's shown right there in the movie, so it's pretty clear this is happening. There's a collusion somehow with the powerful.
Cláudia: Absolutely. Only stupid people don't see this. And if they would open the accounts. Really open the accounts. Of all this money that is laundered in United States banks. Not only United States. Now in all over the world, Bahamas. And we had that small country, my God, at the side of Iraq when
Richard: they started
Cláudia: the war in the Gulf.
Richard: Yeah. They have a small country there.
Cláudia: Kuwait.
Richard: Kuwait. Yeah,
Cláudia: okay, okay. So Kuwait is like when they speak in French, la plaque tournante, where people put the money of the drugs and then they launder the money and all that money goes. So everything is a big casino And the money that comes from drugs and the trafficking of arms is huge, huge all over the world.
So this is a traffic of death. And people are not only killing very young people, very young people. They sell drugs in front of elementary schools. They put people under this toxic dependency very early, in early stages. So one of the most important things is that they want, as they did in those times where mafia dominated Chicago, when the alcohol was forbidden.
Prohibition. Prohibition. So the same thing happens now.
Richard: Do you know there are a lot of Canadians who made a lot of money during prohibition? They were shipping. Alcohol over
Cláudia: the border. So now they're
Richard: doing out of drugs, which is even more effective. I just wanted to say, Cláudia, when we're talking about this, I can always feel, because I've been here in Brazil nine years now, but when I first came, this idea that there was such an organized level of corruption in the power structures of the first world was, to me, was hard to understand.
I sort of knew there was something strange, something was not good, something was rotten, but I didn't understand the extent of it. And I remember a conversation you had with a Dutch guy here in Brazil fairly recently. We mentioned in one of the radio podcasts we did where he was saying, but there's so much corruption in Brazil. There's so much drug trafficking going through Brazil and going through Colombia.
And we've got to stop the drug trafficking there. And you said, but wait a minute, where are the drugs going? They're not being used by Colombians. They're not even being used much by Brazilians. Those drugs are going through those ports. And going where? They're going to Rotterdam, through the ports of Holland. And so this is important. The first world really needs to wake up to what's going on in this question of pathology of power.
Cláudia: And when you speak about waking up, here comes the core of the problem. Because in the 60s you saw like generations of americans north americans south americans europeans being waking up wakening up wakening up to to what they have been living and dying for and they decided that they were not anymore willing to go to war in vietnam or anywhere else in the country just to fight for the economic financial interest of the powerful. So when this started, people got afraid.
People in power got really afraid because this wave, energetic wave of consciousness, was really threatening their pillars. And so people were starting to realize, as Keppe puts in his books, that democracy is something different from capitalism. Leaving exploitation and speculation free, this freedom doesn't mean democracy. Democracy is a totally... Freedom of Consciousness. Freedom of Rights. Human Rights. As Roosevelt said, and where Michael Moore put in his last film...
Richard: Capitalism, A Love Story. Wonderful
Cláudia: documentary. Yeah, good, good documentary. And where we see Dr. Keppe's ideas well described, well...
Richard: Implemented.
Cláudia: It's incredible how he... Like he got the spirit. And so there he is showing that Roosevelt at his time already, he wanted, his wish was to put into like a new constitution, new bill of rights in the American constitution where all the basic things, human, things where human rights should be guaranteed for every citizen.
This
Richard: was powerful for
Cláudia: me. Independently from race, creed, age, whatever. And this almost happened, but he died before that.
Richard: He died a year before. He proposed that and then died a year later. And that proposal never got implemented, you know. And it was even, it was well before Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. It was far before they enacted civil rights legislation in the United States with Kennedy and Johnson.
Far before that.
Cláudia: It wasn't Roosevelt's wife who helped to write, like, the International Universal Bill of Human Rights in Geneva, in UN. Yeah, his wife helped to write down this bill. And this is universal. This is universal. But it was never implemented anywhere on the planet. So when people started to like to say oh come on we have this, these ideals, we had a president that brought this into light, uh, we now are questioning about our rights, civil rights and human rights inside this country, so people in power started to research how to control people without necessarily putting them inside a prison, arresting them.
And this was something that they tried to do in the campus, in Berkeley and New York, Columbia University, the most advanced centers of civil rights movements, California, New York, and Paris. So they were, like, upset because they should put in prison many, many intellectuals, writers, young people, artists, and the thing was growing all over. And that in America, they implemented a dictatorship, a military dictatorship at the
Richard: same time.
In every country.
Cláudia: In every country. So this was at the same period of history.
Richard: They took away democracy in Iran, which had a democratic government. The CIA destabilized the democratically elected government in the 50s, and the Shah of Iran was the result, and the Ayatollah Khomeini was the result and now we have this mess in Iran caused by destabilizing these governments. South America has managed to maintain but Central America is still very, very destroyed by
Cláudia: that CIA
Richard: activity there.
Cláudia: So at the same time, they implemented a plan to imprison human consciousness and minds. So they would do like a brainwashing to direct human beings inside their minds, the way they think, so they would be like imprisoned, innerly imprisoned. So they would not have this difficulty to arrest them, to fight, because fighting physically with thousands of people would require... A revolution is always very difficult to hold back.
And normally results will come from those revolutions. But if you control the minds, it's so easy because people don't threaten anymore any governments. And they understood at those times with the Blue Bird Project. Blue Bird Project
Richard: in the 50s. In the
Cláudia: 50s with the CIA, working with Lilly Pharmaceutical Company and other pharmaceutical companies and some psychiatrists that were bought by them. They realized that if you combine some techniques of brainwashing and influencing minds through electromagnetic devices, through subliminal propaganda and teaching, and through marketing, and those many, many instruments and tools they developed to subliminally influence minds combined with drugs, this would be the most effective way to numb the consciousness of people in the world.
Richard: The 20th century is the rise of public relations, and public relations is directly related to the rise of democracy. They were terrified of democracy, the powerful. They wanted a way to control it. So public relations, controlled by the corporations, by the government, is the way to influence people. And it's right there in the beginnings of public relations. Edward Bernays, the nephew of Freud, was the founder of public relations.
And it's right there at the beginning. There's an intelligent few that need to control the thinking of the mass population.
Cláudia: And they made it. They did it. They did it.
Richard: So now we
Cláudia: don't even, well, we don't know how to deal with this situation because people got hooked on drugs. And the worst is that they think they are opposing to the status quo and they are opposing to the mainstream part of society, to the mainstream.
And they are not. They are just being slaved by this technique.
Richard: Let's include drugs here. Not just the cocaines and the heroines.
Cláudia: Pharmaceutical drugs.
Richard: Yeah, which is much more the majority of people, right? If you look at people in America now, I mean, good heavens, there are two or three prescription drugs each person.
Cláudia: And even children are prescribing drugs. So people, if they start taking Prozac or antidepressants, they will never get rid of those drugs anymore.
So they will be hooked in this, and their brains will not work properly. Because we need to work with both sides of the brain and our consciousness must be lucid. We must have this flux of energy, natural flux of energy, and those chemicals they impede the synapses of the neurons in the brains, so people don't think anymore. They cannot think properly anymore.
They don't even dream anymore when they are asleep. Very seldom they dream. And dreaming is a very important aspect for mental balance. So the thing is very serious, Jones. But we hope that the energy of consciousness will be always stronger than anything else. Now, another thing when you said that Dr. Keppe, in his book, Liberation of the People, he studied the pathology of powerful.
And in this book, he analyzes the powerful, the economic, financial powerful, mostly them, which he calls the sadistic phase of humanity or a human being when he gets hooked on money and aggression. Power. And power, social economic power. They are hooked in a stage, very undeveloped stage of their psychological development. So, those people, they substituted love and feelings of love, romance, beauty, by money.
So, money is a very materialistic approach, very cold, very dry option in life. And the most unbalanced individuals that they cut off with the right side of the brain, they tend to be attached to money and to power. So they have just one side of the brain working.
Richard: Right, the right side of the brain being creative, universal, feeling.
Cláudia: Being feminine.
Richard: More feminine side.
Cláudia: More intuitive.
Richard: More intuitive.
Cláudia: More related to the feelings, feelings, aesthetics.
Richard: Spirituality too.
Cláudia: Spirituality. So if you want to have a balanced way of thinking, a truthful way of thinking and understanding of reality, you must use the both energetic waves of the brain, which is the right side and the left side. The right side would be the feminine side, which is present in men and women.
And the left side would be the more rational, intellectual side of the brain, which we call the masculine side of the brain.
Richard: More linear,
Cláudia: more, yeah. But, you know, we need both energies to be complete. So men and women, they need each other to be complete and to be balanced. Otherwise… Uh, we would not be, it would not be necessary to, to have women and men to procreate the species.
It would be much easier for homosexuals to just to have their, uh,
Richard: whatever, whatever you would call,
Cláudia: uh, or even, uh, if you would consider a celibacy, uh, humanity wouldn't, would never go forward. So it's not only a matter of having a woman and man and having this religious concept or creationist concept that both were created to be just one and being one procreate, like have the capacity to imitate God and create other beings.
Not only this creationist idea, but energetically speaking, we need the energy of each other. Feminine energy is complementary to masculine energy. In the same way, in the brain, everything is complementary. The basis of essential energy is dual. It's dual. It's not one and the anti-one. It's not thesis, anti-thesis. It's not the yes and the no, but they are the going and the coming back, which is like it's both sides or directions of the
Richard: same energy complementing each other.
It's interesting, Cláudia, because I remember somebody here, maybe Cesar Soós, one of our Keppe Motor creators, describing that the essential energy, the scholar energy as Tesla called it, the essential energy in Keppe's terminology, enters our brain through the right side, through intuition, through perception, and then needs to be processed or analyzed or through the left side of the brain. So we have this transfer of energy.
And it's the same in science. You know, you have an intuition, inspiration about something. Then you need to go and see in science if it actually works that way. So there is always this two that's necessary. And when we focus only on money, bean counters, we call them in business. You know, guys are only, they're numbers guys. It's only dealing with one side of the energy field.
And so it cuts with the feeling. And that's why we have so
Cláudia: much cruelty. They are dealing with just half of the energy, but they are dealing with an inverted energy. Yeah, this is important. Because if you cut off
Richard: one side of the, like one pole of the energy, you will have the upside down thing. You don't have half the energy, you have the upside down energy.
Yeah,
Cláudia: and very destructive.
Richard: Yeah, very good
Cláudia: point. Very destructive. So people who only use the reason, the rational side, they are not rational, they are intellectual. And they are alienated from reality. So what do I mean? If people substitute love, doing good, being good for the others, being all terror-centric, wanting to do good for others, if you cut off the sense of being a loving creature, you will be a monster.
You won't
Richard: be half a loving creature.
Cláudia: You'll be the opposite. You will be a monster. You will be like a demon. You will be an anti-being, which is against life and against even oneself. So those delinquents, they are against themselves. So these people in power that only want money, they are totally disconnected from their own reality too. So that's why they are dry, they live alone, they don't have friends.
Generally, they don't do like a real marriage with another person, meaning a loving relationship, but they do contracts, social contracts. And when these contracts are menaced or threatened by some betrayal, and they always are because they are always betraying each other because they are married with money, not with the other person, but with the money the other person has and can offer.
Or the beauty.
Richard: This is a totally anti-civilization. And this is why we see so much cruelty. When we watch Michael Moore's new documentary, we see the cruelty of the system. It's in Portuguese, inacreditável, it's unbelievable.
Cláudia: And what we discovered through Dr. Keppe's research is that those cruel people, they are absolutely sick people. They are delinquents and psychotic. They are really psychotic people.
They need treatment, mental treatment. They need to be hold back as if they would, as if no, because they are mentally sick people. But as they have money, they have the social power and they buy people. So the common people who are more human, they should understand this, that those people in power, they are much less intelligent than the people who work are.
Richard: I heard in a documentary recently, I was watching Neil Young, the great Canadian artist, wrote an album, a series of songs against the Iraq war, and then took his three colleagues, Crosby, Stills, and Nash with him on a tour of America to sing these songs. And he was very controversial. There were people in the audience booing and walking out and other people who were loving it.
And it was this real polarization. And I heard one of the comments of a guy saying, look, if you have never been shot at, you can't criticize the government. Those guys are smarter than you are. And you're saying exactly the opposite now. They're not smarter than we are. They've lost their intelligence.
Cláudia: They hold the people back by power. They use the army.
They use guns. They use bombs. They use physical power even to hold back intelligent people.
Richard: Prisons. There are more
Cláudia: prisons. So they use brutal force in order to hold back people. They are not more intelligent and more capable. And this is the danger. They are really dangerous people. It is as if people from a sanatorium, mental health hospital.
Richard: Sanatorium, okay, a mental health sanatorium, okay, yes.
Cláudia: They would, like, have guns and power to put in prison the psychologists, the nurses, the psychiatrists, and take the situation for their own desire, whatever they want. So if there is this shift of power in the mental hospital, imagine what is going to happen. And this happened in the world. And people in power, they get furious against our work because we expose the necessity that they have to be seen as mentally unbalanced people.
Because if you do what they do, they are not mentally balanced at all. Well,
Richard: let them get furious. Our work continues because it's vital that we wake up to this. The powerful are working against us, not for us. Now there's a science that explains this. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Talk to you next time.
