Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and welcome to another episode of Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Read the literature about complex problem solving, and you're in for a challenging read. System structure and dynamics. Facets of intelligence. Positive and negative dependencies. It's mind-numbing stuff that seeks to concretize often abstract what-if scenarios, so popular in corporate planning departments or government games theory laboratories. The nub of the thing is this.
You've got a goal you want to reach, and a lot of variables in the way of achieving it. What do you need to put in place to transform the state of your current reality into the desired reality? It's analytical, logical, and quantifiable for flowcharts and computer programmers. And its focus on solutions proves that complex problem-solving is the territory of those pragmatic Americans, raised as they are on the can-do philosophy of Dale Carnegie and Norman Vincent Peale.
But from the perspective of the leading-edge thinking emerging from Norberto Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy, it misses a huge point. To go forward, we first have to look backward. The science of real problem solving, today, on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. Our programs stream on our very own radio station, the Stop Radio Network, available on iTunes in News Talk radio stations or streaming from our site at stopradio.org or through the nifty and free TuneIn app for streaming directly to your smartphone or tablet.
Well, here we are, heading into 2016. Hard to believe another year has gone by so rapidly, isn't it? And we're left to consider a world situation that is still perilous, perhaps increasingly so, if we look at the tense geopolitical state of the world today. Problems loom before us at every turn, and it seems, despite our sincerest efforts at conferences and symposia, in strategy sessions and through multilateral initiatives, these problems are only increasing.
Looking at the factors, exponential growth rates, increasing violence and conflict outside the typical trouble spots, dwindling resources, can be sobering at the lower end of the alarm scale and downright terrifying at the top end. And all this pushes us to look for solutions. It's the modern way, after all. Ever since Ronald Reagan rode to victory on the enough-with-the-downers-of-Vietnam-and-falling-competitivity ratings, we're still great slogans.
We've been desperate to focus our attention on the horizon in front of us, rather than doing any cogent analysis of how we got in such a mess in the first place. The sunny side of the street. Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. Yes, we can. These are the fridge-magnet homilies of a world destined to repeat the past because we've learned nothing from it.
Even science is throwing in the towel. Stephen Hawking says our future is out in space. Nothing to be done here. We've messed it up too badly. But into all of this wades a courageous scientist named Norbert O'Keeffe. And what's so important about his work to me is that he takes us to an understanding of the human psyche, far superior to the past thinkers in psychology or even philosophy.
You see, he shows us that if we have a problem, it's not because we're victims of some unforeseen circumstances that crept up upon us unawares. No, our problems arise as a consequence of an intention we have, albeit not so conscious. There is a pact of extinction among the inhabitants of this planet, Keppe says, which explains why life is being extinguished so rapidly.
Rich and poor, cultured and ignorant, powerful and submissive, are all involved in rapidly coming to a close through this strange compulsion for annihilation. And Keppe's work is a final attempt to reverse this highly pathological situation. I think we should listen to what he has to say. Vice President of Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy, Dr. Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco, and the science of real problem solving.
When Thinking with Somebody Else's Head returns in just a moment. International
Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo, Brazil. This is the Stop Radio
Richard: Network. In 2004, in a small countryside village in Brazil, The STOP the Destruction of the World Association initiated a remarkable project.
Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco: Cambuquira is the place we choose to organize our living experiences in Analytical Trilogy. The
Richard: human being and society are dependent on one another.
It does no good to try to correct the individual while allowing the social sphere to remain the same. Like
Cláudia: a new model of socio-economic, artistic, educational, spiritual living.
Richard: Our Campo Quira project is a model of a society that nurtures the human spirit.
Cláudia: It's a small place. It's not far from São Paulo. We travel through very beautiful mountains. And there we have our hotel, the largest hotel in this town.
Richard: Welcome to the Grand Trilogy Hotel. When
Cláudia: they go there, they have natural organic food, natural organic milk, natural organic cheese and products, very good meat. But we also have possibilities for the vegetarians. And there we have our hotel where we apply the concepts of this new world, this new society, a better life to live.
Richard: Classes, businesses, social projects, a better society brought to life.
Cláudia: We have conference rooms, we have a theater, we have musical presentations, we have artists from Brazil and from all over the world coming there.
Richard: Analytical Trilogy has proposals to transform all areas of human activity, leading to the society of the future.
Cláudia: There we will have people immersed, participating and living in a society where the pathology of power is controlled. Because the pathology of power is more than ever impeding people to survive.
Richard: Sociotherapy, using the world's most advanced science.
Cláudia: The solutions will never come from the powerful. They are coming from the people, from those who are more capable, like artists, like scientists, like educators. So that's what we are doing here, creating mechanisms to live a happier life.
This is not a certainty. The human being does destroy himself and destroy the world in which he lives. This is called inversion, and so far it is unconscious. But if we wake up now, there is still time to save life on Earth. Those who ignore this and do nothing to STOP the Destruction of the World are helping to destroy it.
Richard: Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is wonderfully streaming on the Stop Radio Network. You can check that out on our sites. Many ways to download our program. I probably told you about those a million times. But anyway, just keep listening. Keep writing to us. I was thinking there's this COP 21 happening in Paris as we're recording this program.
By the time you hear this, it'll probably be over. But I was looking at their proposal, sort of what they're looking at, what they're trying to solve in terms of these environmental crises. They're looking at things like emission targets, financial commitments to assist other countries, roadmap to stop or to restrict global warming, reporting and verifying emission, all these kinds of things. Keeping fossil fuels in the ground to solve global warming, many of these kinds of proposals.
And then I started to think about what can Dr. Keppe's and your work provide in this context? What's the conversation points that we can begin to have? And so I was thinking about the fundamental element of Dr. Keppe's work, that evil is the privation, corruption, or destruction of good. And so then I thought, so what's environmental destruction in this light, Cláudia? Environmental destruction is the corruption of nature.
It indicates an intention on the part of the human being. It's not just an economic problem. It's something that goes deeper inside the human being. And I don't see anybody having that conversation, except for you. Stop, Dr. Keppe. So can we start there maybe?
Cláudia: When you speak about the solutions, they are so, like, on the surface, They are so superficial, so ridiculous in terms of the major problem of humanity.
Richard: They're not even solutions.
Cláudia: They're not even solutions. So what do we see in this scenario? That the true, the primal, the major, the first cause of all these problems lies on the inner self, in the psychological inner life of individuals. Those who are in power. And you know, we cannot say that power is what corrupts man, but we can say that a man or a woman with power, they can manifest much freer their pathology, their corruption.
Richard: Not so many restrictions on them, right? They're freer to do
Cláudia: what they always wanted to do. That's why it's nonsense. The left and the right and the center and islamic and catholic and jewish and this and that. Because all of us belong to the same kind of inverted upside down humanity, all of us. And the particulars which are the means and and the details let's say so, of how this inversion is manifested.
It varies from culture to culture, but not that much. You see very similar inversions going on all over the planet.
Richard: In every area.
Cláudia: So if we do not realize that we are upside down, that this deep psychological inversion is rooted in its evil and its presence since we are born, it's innate, we will not solve anything.
Richard: So if I could ask you a rather provocative question, and I don't know if you'll even want to answer this, but if you were in France, if you and Dr.
Keppe were there, if you were invited to speak, what would you speak about? I doubt
Cláudia: we would be invited to speak. Well, that's of course.
Richard: Sorry to say that. No, of course.
Cláudia: You know why? Because they know what we do. For decades, they know what we do. They know what we say. And they have like an intuition that what we say and what we do is very powerful.
Imagine, Richard, if we do not want to consider only psychological approach or psychotherapeutic approach of things. If we do want to approach just technology, we got the first prize in Hong Kong. There is this huge fair in Hong Kong. Electronics trade fair,
Richard: largest in the world. And 150 countries participating. I think we got the first award. We got the first prize in technological efficiency and the first prize in innovation.
The innovative technology
Cláudia: of the year. So we had two prizes. Keppe Motor. So they know what we do and what we can offer in terms of energy, technological innovation. They know. And they know what we can offer in terms of health, education, and balance, and economics, and enterprises, and administration, and mostly in terms of inner balance, equilibrium, happiness, fulfillment, quality of life.
Richard: Well, so just indulge me for a second, because I know you'll never be invited there, certainly in the current state.
Cláudia: I hope one day. Yeah, no, in the current state. But not now.
Richard: Unfortunately, not still. It's not going
to
Cláudia: happen. But what would be the
Richard: message? What would I say? Let's give that message now. Let's pretend that you're there in France. I've just introduced you, which I would love to do in a meeting like this, because you began your STOP the Destruction of the World Association in France, in Paris, in 1992.
So here we are, however many years later, and still no sort of official recognition of stop. Lots of people around the world know, and many people respond, and people like very much the initiative. If I were to say, and today to speak about the most important message to be given on the planet today. Okay, so
Cláudia: let's imagine people one day will wake up and realize that there is something really wrong going on, and that we might have an enormous contribution to give, a good contribution, if not the essential contribution to give.
Then I would try, because the science is enormous. Analytical Trilogy is like an instrument. It's like, let's say, a lens that you can see things in the right place.
Cesar Soós: You have these 3D televisions
you see in three-dimensional. Yeah, you put the glasses on. We would put a glass and see things right
Cláudia: side up. And we can see everything like, oh, so this is the true world and this is the false world.
So this is the false me and this is the true me. So I would try to approach one major discovery that Keppe did, this inversion, psychosocial inversion. What is this? So if a person realizes what inversion means, they will understand why they are heading to self-destructiveness, to self-destruction, to the annihilation of life and not the opposite. So they are all there like using masks of people that want to solve the problem, but behind they are inverted.
So everything they decide, it's upside down. And will lead to disaster.
Richard: I've described it this way before, that if we're inverted, which Dr. Keppe is very clear we are, and if you study his work, you'll begin to see that in your own life in every area. If we're inverted, we're moving away from reality. So how does it help us to advance technologically, scientifically, politically, if we're moving in the wrong direction?
It will only speed up the distance, the speed with which we move away from the center. One
Cláudia: of the major inversions, Richard, in this sense, is that people are only fixed or focusing in the sensorial, five senses world.
Richard: Material, right?
Cláudia: So materialism or sensorialism, if we can say that.
Richard: Sensory.
Cláudia: Of the senses, five senses. So we believe in what we see and touch and smell, but seeing just this part is not just seeing half of it.
It's seeing upside down because what is invisible is really what the world is, Meaning, what we don't see with the five senses, what we don't perceive, what we don't sense with this physical senses, it's the true, powerful
Richard: reality. And it's much bigger than what we can see.
Cláudia: My God, it's the cause of everything. It's the invisible that causes everything. And I'm not speaking about esoteric ideas in terms of being lunatic ideas.
You know, this is physics. Energy. Energy. Essential invisible energy, magnetism, and all the brain activity that goes on fed by this essential energy, by ideas that are energies and so on and so forth. So we would say that the invisible energetic world rules everything, and people don't want to approach this. Could
Richard: I use an example? I was reading about brain science. My brother sends me studies once in a while, and they were talking about how the brains of musicians have more development in certain areas.
And
Cláudia: so they're saying that because of the brain. Yes.
Richard: This
Cláudia: is upside down.
Richard: Totally upside down. Because of the brain, the person's a musician. Not that because of being a musician, the brain develops. It's
Cláudia: the opposite. Like the languages. If you are studying languages, then you use your neurons, you activate them, you energize them, so they tend to enlarge, even in quantity.
The neurons, they can grow. Areas in your brain can develop, can produce or create more neurons, or can atrophy.
Richard: Atrophy. Can
Cláudia: cause atrophy. Yeah, it's the same. So the intention,
Richard: the energetic side, the
Cláudia: psycho-energetic side and cause leads everything and not the other way around. So energy comes from another source other than matter. And people must see this. And they would have to admit that there isn't one source of energy, a major source of energy, which they thought.
This is an old-fashioned idea, thinking about a creator or a god or a source of energy which does not matter. What is this? So people are so much linked and attached to those materialistic 20th century upside-down thinking that they cannot go back and leave aside all the geniuses and the Nobel Prizes of the 20th century. Because 20th century was characterized by the biggest inversions of all history of humanity.
Richard: Let's talk about those inversions when we come back. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head continues on the Stop Radio Network in just a moment.
Cláudia: I remember a client she has a near problem The syndrome, when the person starts to get deaf.
Richard: A landmark psychological science that helps us understand physical disease.
Cláudia: But with analysis, the syndrome stopped developing.
Richard: And help solve it without drugs or surgery.
Cláudia: The doctors told her, now you are a healthy person. Take back your normal life.
Richard: Healing Through Consciousness by Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco is a profound book loaded with case studies that explain the root cause of our health problems.
Cláudia: And this morning, she woke up with a heavy heart, as if she was expecting something different from the doctor.
Richard: And what we can do to really solve them, not just take away the symptoms.
Cláudia: So the most difficult aspect is for her to even suspect that she has an inner life that she's not aware of.
Richard: Cláudia Bernhardt Pacheco's Healing Through Consciousness, the revolutionary scientific method that treats both mental and physical illness through dialogue alone, making clinical treatment, medicines, and hospitalization unnecessary.
Richard: Here we are, Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is back on the Stop Radio Network. Cláudia was just telling me while we were waiting for this segment to begin again about the real truth and the pseudo-truth. And I think, you know, if I'm to have this conversation with my friends, and I were to talk with some of them, some who are very active people in the area of human rights, the area of the environment, of human potential.
And I were to talk about what you mentioned just at the end of our first segment there, Cláudia, about the one energy, the source, God, I would be labeled a religious fanatic probably by those people and completely dismissed for the ideas. And this is the real problem, I think, in the world today is we can't enter into this real truth easily because there's so much resistance to it.
Cláudia: And there's so much fanaticism around the idea of God created by this sick institutional religions. They are so sick. And the religious people, they are so much outside of reality and they are so sick also. So sometimes you don't even, you cannot even say they are terrorists, but they are so omissive or outside reality that they give an idea about God, which is totally upside down also.
So the idea we have about a creator is the idea we have about coming from our inversion. We see God, this is interesting, we see God as our image and not the other way around, you
Richard: know. So imagine project us into him. Yeah
Cláudia: this is everything is upside down. So we don't see us being created in in the image of god but we see god in our image.
And imagine having a god in our image. How horrible awful no
Richard: kidding my god.
Cláudia: And we we are so much afraid of this. Because deep down, when we think about God, we are afraid of these projections because we project onto God the wrath, the anger, the vengeance, the hatred, the censorship, the accusation, the lack of love, the lack of mercy, the egotism, the megalomania.
All these characteristics that we have in ourselves, we see, we project onto God.
Richard: Now, you've just helped me to understand something Dr. Keppe said about in this regard. We did an interview. I did an interview with him shortly after 2001. We talked about terrorism. And he said in there that the fear we have of terrorism is the fear of our own terrorism, our own internal terrorism.
Cláudia: This is what you're saying now. Our fear of God is the fear of how we think God is based on how we are. Yes, yes. So, for instance, this negativity and this censorship and this gravitational attitude we have, everything down and pessimistic and negative, we see God in this sense because we think, what are we doing here? What will be the future, will we burn in hell, or what can we get from the future, from transcendental life, if there is such a transcendental life.
So everything that we have in our minds, and the doubts, and the suspicions.
Richard: When will God destroy the world, these kinds
Cláudia: of ideas? Yes, and it will come a destruction, and he will punish the world with the chastisement. Except for a
Richard: few saved
Cláudia: ones. But this is upside down. This is a totally inverted idea. Everything that is happening doesn't have anything to do with God.
God is not a vingador.
Richard: He's not the avenger. So
Cláudia: what we are doing, we are responsible for. If we turn the back to goodness, to truth, to beauty, to peace, to what is real valuable, if we turn the back to love, to everything that is good. So if we do this, how come we will not suffer any consequences? A whole humanity that is fighting in war and social injustice and lack of mercy and envy and egotism or whatever, everything is like this amongst us.
What will be the energetic result of this? Because every thought, every feeling has its own energetic characteristics. And
Richard: that's exactly what's happening now. Like
Cláudia: the green thumb, let's say. If you have good intentions towards the plants, they will feel it. The same
Richard: the animals
Cesar: and the same people.
Cláudia: We feel the evil intentions of other people coming in waves like... We know this.
And this has a tremendous effect on nature.
Richard: Yeah. Let's talk about those 20th century inversions that you mentioned.
Cláudia: There's, I think, five or so that Dr. Keppe talks about. Yeah, he speaks about many. Five
Richard: principles. Let's pick up some, a few of them. Okay,
Cláudia: so. Let's pick up Freud, for instance. Sure. Okay. What do you think about the biggest inversion Freud did?
Richard: Well, there's a couple that I know about from studying Dr. Keppe. One is that he created this idea that we have a natural unconscious, that health and everything would come from this natural unconscious and also our bad intentions. And the other was that it's our sexual instincts, our sort of sexual drives that are what we need to try to control. So those are two areas that I know he talked a lot about.
Did I
Cláudia: hit those two? Well, you know that Freud was a doctor. Yeah. He was a physician. Medical doctor. Medical doctor. He was a Jewish by birth, but he was not a religious man. His father was religious, but he wanted to oppose to the religious side of his father or his religious upbringing. So he was truly, truly, truly materialistic. He had a similar thought and thinking as Marx did, Marx, who created the theory of communism.
So Freud noticed that there was something inside the human beings, in the psychological level of human beings, that was wrong and that was causing much more problems than we would think of. Our
Richard: problems were not so much on the conscious level, though, but
Cláudia: this other level. There were very, very many problems that were hidden from the level of the consciousness. And this he noticed because also of other researchers of his time.
But in this sense, he was true. He was right. But when he tried to analyze the cause of this and how to treat it, he was totally upside down. Because being a doctor, being a materialistic doctor, he thought that psychological life, o psiquismo as we speak in Portuguese.
Richard: Psychism. Psychism
Cláudia: came from the energy produced by cells, energies, instinctive energies, like an energy, a libido, sexual energy that was produced by cells.
He was studying the sexual behavior of hens, hensinhas, those, como sapos,
Richard: toads. And so he was always focused on sexual
Cláudia: behavior of animals. So he did the same with us. And he thought that if we, because of religious and cultural reasons, we repressed those sexual instincts that were there since we are born, baby borns, according to him, had already this sexual pulse or impulse.
If society and religion would repress this, neurosis, psychosis, hysteria, and all the other problems would then be like... The surface. Would come to the
Richard: surface. Would come.
Cláudia: Would be created. Okay? So, what do you think about the next step? Next logical conclusions. Religion and culture is the cause of my neurotic behavior, of my illnesses.
Richard: Right. They're
Cláudia: censoring me. Culture, religion, parents, teachers, arts, philosophy, everything from civilization was to be thrown away because it caused diseases, illnesses, neurosis, and psychosis.
Richard: Because it was repressing this natural sexual drive that we felt.
Cláudia: Yes. So, for instance, baby-borns, they had this sexual attraction already towards their parents. So, what is then the next conclusion from this? You should never ever get close to your child or vice versa because you have sexual instincts. And if you, what to do with this?
Richard: So what to
Cláudia: do with this?
To practice? Not to practice? What to do with this pedophilic feelings that Freud said they were there since we are born? So daughters would like to kill their mothers to stay with their parents and vice versa with the boys and their parents. So this was, my God, what a mess, what a mess. And so everything that the artists produced, all those incredible artistic, static creations were like the sublimation of the sexual instinct.
Richard: Yeah, you couldn't express the sexual. I can't have sex with who I want to, so I paint the Sistine Chapel.
Cláudia: Yes, exactly. And many of those, he even put a lot of imagination and delirious ideas for himself. And all this theological tradition was everything analyzed under this… Perspective. I could say it would be…
Richard: Not only evil, but
Cláudia: something very, very, I don't know the word now, but it's evil.
It's twisted somehow. It's twisted. It's upside down and it's evil. So all the theological beliefs and traditions and revelation was analyzed by Freud, perversely analyzed by Freud. So what did he bring? Separation and conflicts between generations, between individuals and society, between individuals and culture. He tried to destroy the value of arts and the value of theology and the value of the true philosophy and moral and ethics.
And so they tried later on to twist his theories and say, explain, well, he did this because of this. He did this because of that. He said this, but it was not really what he meant. It was what he meant. His theories led even more than this. And what happened is that humanity became much more neurotic than it was because he sank humanity in the instincts.
And by doing that, he did not only split the man between body and soul. He put mankind upside down. Because all the physiological, instinctive, sexual activities come from a higher source of energy, which is the energetic part of the body, the psychoenergetic, the feelings, the thoughts, culture, which is very much impregnated in our values and ideas.
Richard: Our intuitions, ideals.
Cláudia: So this is much more from the heart to the top, from the heart up and not from the belly down, the waist down.
So if we see things in the right side up, we understand that the psychological life can affect the body and really do affect the body.
Richard: And Dr. Keppe's work is brilliant in this sense because he takes a step back from this instinctual life and says, no, wait a minute. We have a starting place. We have an essence that's been created that is good, beautiful, and true.
Cláudia: And instincts are like this, and they are good, beautiful, and truthful if
Richard: they are in balance with the psychological life, with love, with truth, with all these virtues and the qualities of
Cláudia: the soul, this transcendental world. So they work so beautifully. They work so beautifully if they are being ruled by our psychism.
Richard: And Dr. Kempi says that we are healthy in our essence.
We're not sick.
Cláudia: And we destroy our health. And this is the part he tries to treat as the part that destroys. Yeah, beautiful. So this is one of the biggest inverted masterminds of the 20th century.
Richard: The inverted geniuses of the 20th century. And we only got to Freud. Well, in the best network programming language, be sure to join us again next week for another thrilling episode of Thinking with Somebody Else's Head.
We are broadcasting the leading-edge thinking emerging from Norberto Keppe's International Society of Analytical Trilogy in Brazil. And I think many big things to come from us in 2016. As the Keppe motor becomes better known, Keppe's science of psychosociopathology piggybacks along. Talk to you next time on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones. Bye for now.
Richard: A key inversion in science.
Cesar: Always we are trying to extract energy from a material element.
Richard: And its negative consequences.
Cesar: We provoke serious imbalances in nature.
Richard: Corrected now with the Keppe Motors disinversion of physics.
Cesar: And we developed a way to have mechanical power with very little electricity.
Cláudia: This will make a big change, not only in energetic efficiency, but also it will bring better energy in homes because it's magnetic energy.
The
Richard: Keppe Motor, new technology for a new world.
