Richard Lloyd Jones: I'm Richard Lloyd Jones and welcome to Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. You know, one of the things that gives me solace when looking at all of the really horrible manipulation and cruelty of our modern day society is that the perpetrators of these evil deeds will have their comeuppance. And how all that works is the subject of our show today. Just this morning I was remembering something unpleasant I did when I was much younger and found myself shuddering anew at the memory.
These things we do that are not so wonderful cause us rueful moments, even decades later, precisely because they are wrong, and we know they are. Sounds a rather simple statement, but in our inverted world of flexible morals, where good is relative and evil depends on the circumstances, it's remarkable to consider that it's more universal than that. Evil is still evil, and good is still good.
It all plays out inside us every time we do something. For that matter, there is much inside us that we don't have contact with as much as we should. And I hope our program today will fix that a little. The wisdom inside us today on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. You know, at its base, our program is a revolutionary one. Not for us, the sitting on fences or hedging our bets.
As Norberto Keppe says in his book, Liberation of the People, we are embarking on the greatest of revolutions that humankind has ever seen. That of coming together, turning society around, and heading it in the right direction. We're no longer willing, none of us, we the people, to fight in these sick men's wars, to support their sadistic economy, to have them pit us against each other because of race or color or sex or culture or religion.
There are millions of children disenfranchised and hungry and homeless worldwide today, including a frightening increase in the U.S. And wherever a situation like this exists, we are, all of us, to blame, for we have supported the system that has created it. Well, no more. We are becoming rightfully indignant, the people, and rising up to take back the power the sickest one percent took in devious ways.
And we let them, thinking naively that they would share the winnings with the rest of us. Or perhaps dazzled by the possibilities that we too, if we worked hard enough, or visualized tangibly enough, or prayed resolutely enough, could have our piece of the same dream. So we went along with it, to our shame, and red-facedly we need to acknowledge that. But at the same time, we need to realize that the cards were being hugely stacked against us by the sociopaths in control who make sure they look after their needs while making it look like they were looking after ours.
I mean, goodness gracious, while the financial institutions who have convinced our gullible or totally corrupt politicians and economists that they were too big to fail, Well, they were struggling for air in 2008 and 2009 because of unbelievable mismanagement and crooked dealings. Well, they were telling us that they were okay. They were actually collapsing. And don't think that $800 billion bailout, that Goldman Sachs acting as Treasury Secretary Paulson, that that was all they got.
No, no. Recent reports in venerable institutions like the New York Times, the Washington Post, now tell us that they were taking out secret loans from the Fed to the tune of $7.7 trillion. Try and get your head around that number. We need to really start seeing the writing on the wall here, that there's nothing of change that's going to come from the 1%.
We have to take back our countries and not wait for them to give it back. Martin Luther King, the great revolutionary, understood that. Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor, he said. It must be demanded by the oppressed. King also cautioned us that the greatest tragedy in social transition was the appalling silence of the good people. Well, that is changing, finally.
Here, on the day where in 25 cities across the United States, People are refusing to give up their foreclosed homes. We need to have that spirit, too. Take back our homes that the banks stole from us. Start to create collective living situations to cut down expenses and rationalize our spending. Start forming our own companies together and creating a parallel economy that can replace the inverted economy of the 1%.
Info about trilogical society, trilogical companies. Keppe's work in this area of how to create a society for the people is peerless and very practical. I was talking to one of our program listeners, Jason Jackson from Montreal, about this earlier today, about the need for forming residences and companies together to begin to occupy the society, not just the town squares.
We need to take back our countries because they've been stolen from us by the powerful. And another thing Dr. Keppe was telling me the other day, we need to begin to occupy the media. Now, that doesn't mean camping out in the lobby of CNN until they give you a guest spot on the Wolf Blitzer show, although that's not such a bad idea.
What it means is getting some placards saying occupy the media and media for the 99%. Well, you can be more creative than that. But the purpose is to begin the campaign to shame the media and encourage the less corrupted journalists to swing onto the side of the people where they should be and where they are obviously not. We're going to talk a little bit more about the media and the role of the media and occupy the media on our next week's program.
But we need to start to be in touch with media personalities. And they're in their face constantly about the need for journalism to return to its purpose, which is to tell the truth, to be loyal to the citizens, be a monitor of power, maintain an independence from those they cover. None of these are being followed today, and our media is a disgrace because of it.
I'm not just talking about the blowhards on Fox, but the shamelessness of the mainstream media in supporting the sick status quo is appalling. So let's start that discussion and try to affect the international debate to take back the media, to get them fulfilling their obligation to us, not to the advertisers and the power structure. I've started some of this in my Facebook page recently, but there's much more needed.
And you have a voice, and that's here on Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. I want you to know that. Let me know what you think. Joneshealingatgmail.com. My email is always available to you. Stories you want to tell, examples from the 99%. I will tell them, and I promise to be in the face of the corrupt structures and institutions every chance I get.
Our program is a program of the people. And I really want to encourage you to do that and spread the word about this program, about all the work we're doing at the International Society of Analytical Trilogy, and about anyone else who's speaking about this and trying to create awareness that we need to take back these institutions that have been stolen from us and are now working only or almost exclusively for the 1%.
Well, enough said about that now. Cláudia Barinhart-Presheko will join me next week to expound more on all of this. But when we return now, we want to consider the wisdom inside us, a more spiritual consideration that will have some implications for what we've been talking about so far on our program. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is our program. Richard Lloyd Jones is my name.
In just a moment the program as I'm sure you know is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head and listen we really feel that this program has something of value to bring into the world. And so I would really like you to to sort of spread it by word of mouth, you know, this the whole thing of going viral.
We don't believe much in posture down here but the idea of going viral we really appreciate. So if you can help the program move forward so more people get a chance to hear it that would be just great.
My name is Richard Lloyd Jones, and it's been a while now since my dear friend Cesar Soós has joined me.
And, you know, I actually have some people who listen to the program quite regularly say they've missed hearing you. So here we are. Now, I know you've been very, very busy with the Keppe motor, And I wanted to see if you were prepared to give just a short summary of what's happening with the Keppe motor. It could be obviously the executive version.
You don't have to go into a lot of detail. But it says it would be really great to know what's happening with this incredible transforming technology.
Cesar Soós: Yes, it's very promising. The Keppe motor now, we are in the phases now of preparing industrial prototypes. Because we have many industries interested in producing the capping motor. And so the capping motor already proved itself to be one of the best technologies to replace these low-power motors.
You know, they go until one horsepower so far. There is no limitation for the principle itself. But the limitation is ours in our laboratories to develop the bigger things. And
Richard: Dr. Keppe was saying to us the other day that he would love you guys, you and Roberto and Alexandre Frascari, to work on trying to find a way to get the Keppe Motor to work on something other than electricity.
Because he feels, and I know you feel this too, that electricity is a really dangerous force, actually. For
Cesar: the professionals that work with electricity, everybody knows that when electricity happens, there is at the same time entropy of the system. So electricity is a byproduct of an entropic system. That's why. So an entropic system can never deliver some kind of energy which is good for nature.
For example, in a natural storm. If you see a storm, the storm happens. It takes place because there is like an unbalance, energetic unbalance in the atmosphere. So the thunderbolts, the lightnings, they happen in order to stabilize that unbalance. It's a kind of a reaction to a disequilibrium. And the same happens to motors, to all of the technology we use today. We provoke an unbalance in a system, in a technological system, with resistance, yes, with resistances. And a motor is a resistance, let's say.
If you put a resistance in the terminals of a battery, then it's a current starts to flow, and current starting to flow means electricity, and this is entropy.
You start to lose energy through losses of heat heat losses and then all all things all
Richard: hell breaks loose but this is not our topic for today. But I did want you to speak a little bit about that because it's been a while since we've had you on it and we really need to come back and talk
Cesar: a little bit more in the future about Keppe motor.
But we want to talk today about spirituality and this is a subject that's very very dear to your heart as much as the Keppe motor maybe even more than the Keppe. Yes, even the Keppe motor is a byproduct of my search for this spiritual things.
Richard: And I would, I'm, I, I don't have a lot of knowledge about this area says, or what I've learned I've learned from you and Dr Keppe and and Dr Cláudia.
So I feel that this is something that we could really help people to understand here in our program today because it's not something that's well talked about in uh in our uh first world these days. We talk a lot about religions sometimes but about real spirituality and these kinds of spiritual phenomena not very much. So let's try and get into that a little bit.
You said as we're preparing for the show we're all going to die yes so far this is true for everyone. That's not a common
Cesar: and not a very popular
Richard: subject but of course it's true but we don't think about it at least on a day-to-day basis about um about death. What happens when we, when we die? How do you understand this from studying Dr Keppe's work in your own spiritual journey?
What happens when we, when we disappear? We don't disappear, right? Yes, you know
Cesar: there are many religions who try to give a reasonable explanation for that, and they are all based on some teachings uh that comes from or higher spiritual beings who have the capacity of seeing beyond, or they have like perceptions that we do not have.
And then we rely upon these teachings of these spiritual leaders and also great textbooks like the Bible and so forth. But one thing is true for certain. There is a continuation of the human race. There is a continuation. Your existence here is a complementation of the others in the past. That's why we always develop, we always grow in terms of society, we go for the better, you know. There is a name in every single heart to develop, you know.
So we are part of something bigger than us we are just like a note in a symphony and this symphony has been playing for Millennials before us. And millennials will continue to play Millennials after us. We are part of it, we are part of transcendent. And to know what you are doing now you must have consciousness of this whole symphony, otherwise you don't do what is correct, right?
Richard: Exactly, but the symphony is not Just the amalgamation Of all the human beings who have lived I'm assuming you're mentioning the symphony As a conductor as a creator of the symphony, right? We have to consider that. And when you say the symphony, are you talking only about the human symphony? Are we talking about other planets with human beings too?
Cesar: Exactly, Richard. One of the things that fascinated me in Dr.
Keppe's work is his vision of unifying vision of everything. This is so powerful, so powerful, this unification, because the aim, the main aim of science is to search for this unification. And Dr. Cappi says that we already have that. Science is already unified. And how can we see these things? We see that, for example, human beings, they differ one from the other.
Some of them, they have the ability, the capacity to see things the others don't do. But in fact Dr. Keppe comes with the idea that every single human being has the same capacity. We have all the capacity needed to do everything, but through an attitude of inconscientization we like curb this capacity, and we lower our possibilities to do things, we lower our possibilities to perceive things.
But people who are more like less censored, let's say, they are able to see more than we do. And it's very common throughout the ages to see people who report seeing a spiritual beings, talking to spiritual beings, you know. And this is not one, two or three, there are millions and millions and millions throughout the ages. So there is something in it which is true we cannot simply use the structure of positivistic science today to say these people are all crazy yeah this is not true there
Richard: must be something there there must be.
And this uh I think, I think if we're all honest, maybe we've all felt even this um calling of something that we, the note that we need to play inside this universal symphony. And this is something I think that we could, all of us could do a lot of uh more speculation, more contemplation about, because this is a phenomenal thing to understand.
You said recently that you were watching a very powerful documentary about near-death experiences. And most of us have heard about this kind of experience. "It's the many times people tell the same story, you know. They, they die and they're above their bodies looking at the body being worked on by medical professionals or whatever, and at the same time they feel like they're going through a tunnel, and there's this light at the end of the tunnel." And there was a recent movie with Matt Damon about this kind of issue.
What was it about this documentary that really really got you, that really touched you?
Cesar: It's a documentary about near-death experiences, the the Discovery Channel I saw. They showed many people who had passed, undergone these experiences. And what touched me was exactly this. Everyone after the experience, when they were dead, let's say, they had consciousness of every single act they did on earth in their lives, in their lives. Every single act, every fraction of second came in front of their eyes before them, and they could see, they knew Richard if they were right or wrong in that experience.
That experience for example uh very like uh uh some people who are not polished people, how could I say, rough people, rough people, they could never use those words to express what they feel, you know. And they felt my God, at that moment I saw that everything that I was thinking was wrong, and the worst of all is that the whole society thinks it's right, but it was wrong. Somehow I knew deep inside of me that that attitude was wrong.
Richard: So let me just rephrase this you're saying that the when the people have this experience of dying and then of course they come back from that but they while they're dead they see everything that happened in their life instantaneously total consciousness yes and at the same time they know what was correct or not correct in that situation not only for them but for the whole society
Cesar: and the thing Richard the it doesn't have a judge there in the beyond to tell you hey you were right or you were wrong.
Richard: You see this thing you did on
Cesar: November 15th, 1972? The guys, they said they have this sense of justice in themselves. And this matches perfectly what Dr. Keppe says, that we have consciousness. All consciousness we need to know if we are right. Now, not just
Richard: when we die.
Cesar: You heed from your consciousness if that act is bad or good. Right. But deep inside, you know what you are doing.
Richard: And so when we die, in a sense, we don't have so much censorship of the consciousness that we have. We censor it now, which is why we don't see.
Cesar: Exactly. And you know another point that touches me and makes me think a lot is that many of these people, They see a tunnel of light. After some time, they see a tunnel of light and they see their family members and the other side of the tunnel calling them for them to go to the other side.
But this never happens before they see all the problems, all their lives, and before they pass by this judgment. It means… Internal judgment. Internal judgment. This is an internal judgment. Yes, yes. This is
Richard: important. I understand that. What does that mean? It means that you can never purify yourself if you do not
Cesar: look at your errors, if you do not look at the bad things you did.
And some of these people, when they come back, you know what they say? The worst thing I felt on the other side is not exactly what I did wrong, but the good things I didn't do for the others. And you know why? Because the essence of the human being is to do good. Like Dr. Okapi says, metaphysics is good, beauty, and truth.
This is the essence of the human being.
Richard: So if we don't do good, in a sense we are, not in a sense, it's exactly this, we are going against our very own nature.
Cesar: Exactly, Richard. And you feel guilty for that. All the time you do something against these three basic things, beauty, good, and truth, you are accumulating guilty. But not to feel guilty, you will inconscientize that.
But you will charge that from you, and then you will try to repair these guilt feelings in an irrational way. And sometimes suffering accidents.
Richard: Paying yourself back.
Cesar: Paying yourself back, yeah.
Richard: Very interesting. We're going to take a quick break. We're just getting warmed up, so don't go too far away. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on Conscious Planet Radio. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, and we are back in just a moment with Cesar Soós, The Life of Transcendence.
So don't go away. We're coming right back. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head on Conscious Planet Radio.
Cesar Soós is with us. You were talking about this documentary you watched on Discovery Channel. That impacted you very strongly about this experience that everybody reported from these experiences of having their whole life played out in front of them like on a giant screen.
And I'm assuming it's not, it doesn't take like 50 years to watch. It's like instantaneous. You see all of the moments of all of your life at the same time. That must be quite an experience to have that kind of consciousness. And um you were alluding to the fact that we have that potential now but we block it and we've talked about that many times in the program.
So I, I don't need, think we need to focus too much on that now, maybe we'll come back to it. But tell me some of the specific examples because uh you tell a story of one of our friends who had this experience, a medical doctor. "Oh yes,
Cesar: yes, and this,
Richard: this is a powerful story that you told me about this."
Tell that story, because that will really make this concrete for us, I think.
Cesar: This friend of mine, he's a medical doctor today. He's in his 50s. And when he was an adolescent, 14 years old, he was trying to swim, to cross a river, and then he drowned, you know. And then he had to be saved and all that. But when he was unconscious, being rescued, when he was dead,
Richard: dead,
Cesar: let's say he passed through this experience.
And then he told me that when his life passed in front of him, a particular moment called his attention, particular incident, incident. And what was this incident? He was in the school and there was a boy that all the time mocked on him, all the time pushed him and forced him to fight back. Right. Provoked him. Provoked him all the time. And then he was all the time calm, calm, suffering, but trying to hold that anger.
Holding, holding. And then at a certain point, he couldn't resist anymore and he started to kick the guy, the boy. He struck back, you know, and he fought and he punched him many times. When you tell this story to everyone else, people say, oh, come on, I would have done the same.
Richard: This is so, of course. You have to defend yourself. You can't.
Cesar: Exactly. But at that moment when he was dead, let's say, he had full consciousness that he couldn't ever have done that. He shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't have done that. And he felt so much pain inside and suffering that he understood that the human being can only do one thing, to be tolerant, try to avoid this, to attack, to feel anger.
This is not part of our essence.
Richard: This is so interesting because what he's suggesting here is that the provocation doesn't matter. When we go against our nature, the goodness that we are in essence, we do damage to ourselves, we hurt ourselves, we suffer, we suffer. I think it sounds like the other kids suffered a little bit too. But this doctor friend of yours, he was saying that he suffered because of
Cesar: this, yes. Maybe that's why uh when a person is very tolerant you can say wow this guy is a saint, right, because the saints they do everything in order to go to God.
And so these saints, they know what has to be done in order to go straight up after they die, you know? Yes. And so we can conclude that our society has no understanding about these things. We are completely blinded to this truth,
Richard: transcendental truth. Because I perceive, Cesar, that we don't even have a conversation in our society about sort of universal right and wrong, if you want to call it that.
I mean, in this situation you're describing, as you said, everybody would say, well, what else could he do? Why would he feel guilty about that? He did what he had to do to protect himself. And rationally, that makes complete sense. But at a deeper level, he felt tremendous guilt for that because it was really against the universal value. And this universality is not well understood in our world, is it?
Cesar: Yeah, Dr. Keppe, in his book, Metaphysics I, he explains this example, a similar example. He says that when you are provoked, you have three kinds of attitudes you can assume. First of them, you can strike back. This is a scientific attitude, it's action-reaction. Then he says in a higher level you have the philosophical attitude, you will say "okay can I fight back with this guy, this guy is bigger than me, if I fight back I will be punched even more, so this is a philosophical thing, you use your reason." And then there is the third attitude which is the metaphysical attitude.
The metaphysical attitude will make you think, wow, what can I do in order to help that person not to attack me anymore? You see, the metaphysical attitude is broader, is encompassing, is infinite, is universal, and always has the good in its base. August
Richard: Comte inverted the order of these, didn't he, he put the action reaction as the superior level, and yeah this was a big mistake.
But one of my students was telling me a story about this because we were having this talk about universality really uh of ethics, these kinds of things, in our class on Saturday. And he said "there was a story in Brazil of a Japanese man, old Japanese man, who was attacked in Prasa de Se, which is a part in the central part of São Paulo that's quite dangerous."
And he was attacked by a criminal trying to rob him. And this Japanese man knew jujitsu or karate or judo or something, and he managed to, although he was attacked by surprise, he threw the criminal to the ground, and the criminal was very hurt there. And then you know what the Japanese guy did? He went and helped the guy. He went and helped him he he took him and he took him to the to the place to get medical treatment and you know and my my student was using this as an example.
Of course, you protect yourself when you have to, but the moment the initial protection is over, you've made the point, then you go to try to help the person. I thought this was a very good example of how we could respond in these situations, you know?
Cesar: Exactly. He was more in contact with nature, because nature is caring all the time. So
Richard: one of the principal tenets of Keppe's science is this correction of metaphysics, which says that the greater can never come from the lesser.
And this has enormous ramifications for science, of course, because we have this idea that the little things create the big things. So we have the theory of evolution. We have Freud's theory that the unconscious creates health. We have Einstein saying that energy and matter are the same. We have Adam Smith saying that profit is the be-all and end-all. We have Pasteur saying that disease comes from bacteria and microbes from outside the body.
But we need to look at this spiritually. That if Keppe is correcting this, that the lesser doesn't create the greater, that means that we are complete as spiritual beings. Not only as physical beings but as spiritual beings too. What's the significance of this disinversion of metaphysics? It's phenomenal in the area of spirituality,
Cesar: isn't it? It is phenomenal because then you start to think my god how come I am at this point now.
What's wrong in me that I am not better? When you think in terms of evolution you think in terms of oh come on my mistakes are forgiven, forgiven because I am evolving. But when you think through the perspective of Dr Capi that we are in decay, we decayed from the perfection to the state we are now. When you make a mistake you think oh my god how come can I restore my structure my original.
I need to restore my original structure. What am I doing wrong that I can correct and recover my original structure, spiritual structure,
Richard: which is the sense of shame that these people who had these near-death experiences
Cesar: described exactly. And so. So this is what I think, Richard, I like a lot, I fell in love with Trilogy, Dr. Keppe's work, because especially of this.
Dr. Keppe, he brought, he managed to bring this justice to the material world too. If you go through the methodology of analysis of Dr. Keppe, you pass through this near-death experience in living, alive. You don't need to die until this thing
Richard: happens to you. Group analysis, yeah.
Cesar: Yes, you get the consciousness of the mistakes you are doing so you can correct. So you have a possibility to recover part of your being and do what is essential in life, what you are supposed to do.
You are supposed to help others to be happy. You are supposed to be rich. You are rich in spiritual and material too. We are all supposed to be this way.
Richard: So we see then that the society, which does not allow this opportunity for richness, spiritually or materially, for many, many people, majority of the people, 99% of the people, don't have this opportunity.
We can say then that the society we live in today is very influenced by a very negative spirituality, like a destructive spirituality. And
Cesar: I can tell you why. Dr. Keppe also explains that the main philosophers and scientists who lay down the basis of our society today, they were inverted. And if they were inverted, all the philosophies of life we follow are inverted, and we are inverted as well by following them.
So we have a social pathology which forces us to be inverted, to go against our very essence. I give you an example. You take the philosophy of Darwin, for example. Darwin says we come from an amoeba and we go evolving forever and ever. And only the strongest will survive. So, this is an excuse for the smartest ones and bad intention guys to step on the others and say, I am evolving.
I am the top of the race. So, this is very racist, this kind of philosophy. Social Darwinism. And then you put God out of the picture. Now you take the other one, Freud. Freud believed that we are fruit of our instincts. Sex he put in the basis of our evolution. And where is the love and these other higher instances of our souls?
For him, it doesn't exist. It's a fruit of sex.
Richard: This is even stupid, if you think. We are much more than that. Yes, like Michelangelo was totally frustrated, so he went and painted this Sistine Chapel, this kind of crazy idea Freud had.
Cesar: And what there is in common? Is there in common between, for example, Darwin and Freud, God is out of the picture?
So now let's take the other one, Einstein. Einstein forces energy to be connected to matter. If you do not have matter, you do not have energy. So where does your soul go after you are dead? It simply disappears, you know, because if it depends on how your body dies, then you have no soul. So all of these theories have in common to take out the transcendence of our lives.
And there is more, Pasteur saying all the diseases come from outside. You have no, like, interference in your problems. No participation. No participation. Everything comes from outside, so you become very paranoid the way we are. Yeah,
Richard: washing your hands 15 times.
Cesar: And others, and others. Adam Smith, the richness is in money. And Karl Marx saying he took God and put the state, you know.
So the state is the owner of your body. They can kill you if they want to say, okay, to save the state, I'll kill you, you know. There is no human rights. This kind of things, they all have in common one thing. They want to put spirituality away and especially God out of the picture, you know. So human beings are living inverted because they believe matter is the ultimate
Richard: essence of things.
Now we would say in argument many people would say but wait a minute but it's always been that way. It's always been the way you're talking about with Darwin and Marx and Adam Smith. That's the way we've always had it so what are you talking about this new universal new, it's not so new of course, but this universal idea. How do we deal with that, that kind of argument that comes up quite often?
Yeah it
Cesar: has always been like this they say. Yeah I don't believe it has always been like that. There are many people who think different. The problem today is the power and the media has an extraordinary influence in that Richard. The media put these uh philosophies, imposes these philosophies for the people because it's convenient for the powerful people.
Richard: Yeah, exactly. We're coming back in a moment.
Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is on Conscious Planet Radio. Richard Lloyd Jones with Cesar Soós and we'll be back in a moment to talk more about transcendence and the spiritual life. Another fascinating discussion. Don't go away. We're coming right back. This is Thinking with Somebody Else's Head. We are on Conscious Planet Radio exploring very beautifully, I think, this uh rather broad, yeah controversial but I was thinking broad subject because yes controversial for for those who don't want to sort of see the evidence that's around these near-death experiences.
You're talking about the the experiences of mystics and saints for thousands of years, the the words of the greatest uh prophets of our times including Jesus and Buddha and all of these great souls. Jesus being god the greatest of them all, they talked very much about the eternal life of human beings, that the kingdom of god is in you. Now that greater things than I will you do.
I mean there's all sorts of evidence around to say that we are transcendental created beings. You just have to look at how our body works. We've been studying this recently in our post-graduation course down here. Just looking at how the body is formed and how it all works together, this is a harmonious thing that's beyond the comprehension of a human being. That it could be created from an amoeba over billions of years, from some protoplasm in the mud, the cosmic mud, evolving over billions of years, this is impossible to understand.
And so when you talk about taking God out of the picture, this is maybe the most serious problem for the human being today. We took God out of everything in society, didn't we?
Cesar: Yeah, exactly. But the problem is, and then, after you leave the 60s, 70s, 80s, 100 years. It's very good to take care about our soul. Because what seems to happen after we die, Richard, is this.
Based on my experience of life, based on what I heard, based on what I studied, I feel that when we die, if you are very much attached to these inverted theories, you believe so eagerly in Darwin, in Einstein, in these kind of theories, that forces you to be in matter. You will be a spirit, a soul connected to matter. And then you will be connected to this world like a wandering soul.
You are vaguing all around the world trying to find peace and you will never find that. Why that? Because you are not in tune with higher instances of your soul. You see, you are not in tune with the metaphysical world. So you stay in this side of the tunnel of light. But when you dispose yourself to say okay there is something wrong, when you start to think oh there must be something wrong, then the tunnel of light comes to you and you pass through that experience and then you are able to move to the other dimension, to a higher dimension, a spiritual dimension, and live in resonance let's in the same level of your soul.
So we put ourselves through our thoughts and feelings, we determine our level of vibration that we are going to stay after death.
Richard: Yes, could be low, could be much higher. And of course, the great mystics, well, we have some examples of these great souls whose bodies do not deteriorate after death. Somehow, what's happening there? They're maintaining a connection with this essential energy field.
How do you explain that?
Cesar: The more consciousness the person has, the more contact with this spiritual world, let's say in good terms, he receives more energy from there. And as matter is formed by this energy, their bodies, after they die, can contain more of this energy, keeping the body for longer periods, you know, because their soul continues to emit that energy to the
Richard: body.
So they're preserving, in a sense, the physical part of themselves. Yes. And, of course, the soul part of themselves continues, but the physical part continues too because of the connection they have with this transcendental world while they were physical. Exactly. Is that correct?
Cesar: Yeah, yeah. Matter and energy is the same thing. But energy is superior in hierarchy.
Richard: Yeah. Now, one of the things that might be interesting to think about, Cesar, is what happens if we don't believe in all this?
I don't believe in goodness so much. I mean, I know you need to be good, but it's not such a big thing. I need to look out for myself. I need to be considerate about my life. What are the dangers of that? What happens if we don't pay attention to what you're talking about today, goodness truth and beauty, if we don't consciously try to live a life like that, what's the danger if we
Cesar: don't?
The danger of that is that it's not you who decides what is truth or not. The truth is there before you forever and ever, or you entering resonance with it, or if you don't you accumulate guilt and this guilt will be unconscious and it will come back to you in terms of punishment. And so when you have like a complicated life and if your business doesn't go right or if your health is not okay, if you have family problems, all of that is an expression, direct expression of how much you reject this kind of knowledge.
This is
Richard: impressive. So there there is a way to be and we see this through the experience you talked about earlier of the near people with the near-death experiences. They experienced what was correct and not correct instantly. It wasn't somebody telling them hey you know
Cesar: remember when you did this that was wrong and this is why. It's not like that, it's an internal feeling.
But I want to talk to you about this now
Richard: in this sense that when we don't do good uh we were obviously damaging the the essence of the nature of who we are but we're also opening a door to other influences aren't we?
Cesar: Yeah we
Richard: haven't talked about that at all in the program so let's consider that for a moment. Dr Keppe says that um the the fundamental mistake humanity's making, he says this in his phenomenal book Universe of the Spirits, which you and I had the great pleasure of translating into English.
The confusion that exists in the human being is the confusion that's been created around seeing and being, where not seeing would be not being. So we have the idea that if we don't see something, that it's okay. But not seeing something means that we are not being. And if the moment we don't see the truth we are not being the truth, but more importantly than that, because we don't want to see, we have had, we have excluded thousands of years of Judeo-Christian theology that tells us there are spiritual influences and they are impacting us now.
You know a lot about this. How what could you say initially to help us understand that?
Cesar: Yeah many people for example they do not want to to have any contact with god. They say oh no I do not, I don't want to have any anything to do with god or churches or religious things. And you know why? Because they think they will not feel guilty with that, they have no commitment with the spiritual things.
But in fact they are committed to, you know, they're completely committed with the spiritual things because they are spirits. You know Dr
Richard: Keppe says that if you deny or reject this consciousness out of hand you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation. One, because you'll be refusing to see the terrible reality of being guided by spirits, despicable spirits, that only wish to destroy you.
And two, you'll be obviously losing the defense that you have. I mean, consciousness is the defense we have. So talk a little bit about how the spiritual world works, Cesar. What is this influence?
Cesar: You can understand the human being as an antenna. We are exactly like antennas of a radio. We are just capturing energy from the source and the source is God, is the creator or whatever name you want to give to him, but he exists, he is very real, he is the biggest reality of all, and he emits this all the time, this energy, this essential energy, and the level of pathology we have determines the level of energy, the quantity and purity of this energy you receive.
But you are always receiving this energy. And if you have more pathology, you stop receiving this energy, other influences will fill that gap. And this gap is because of resonance. You will resonate in terms of attitude with spirits that also refused that kind of energy. So you are never alone when you do a crime or when you have a bad thought. You are never alone.
You are always together in resonance with spirits that think like you.
Richard: Dr. Keppe says that these are actually demons organizing and guiding our lives. And if I don't believe in that, that's a danger for me because it's happening anyway, right?
Cesar: They don't care. And in fact, they prefer you not to believe because then you are like a prey for them. Very very easy prey.
I remember Richard this is my personal experience. My father asked me to do something and I didn't do and that was very bad for him and after I didn't do that thing and my father believed I had done and you didn't, I heard a voice inside of my head. And that voice said this, ha, ha, ha, now you are a little bit more mine.
You see, and I was a kid. And then I started to pay attention to that. And I was so scared that I went to my father and I said to my father, Father, forgive me, please, I didn't do what you asked me to. And then my father was surprised. And he said, wow, you were courageous enough to come here and tell me that.
So go and do it now. And I went so happy to do that. Because I knew by doing that thing, I was probably getting away from that strange voice I heard. Yes. So most of us don't hear the voice. But they hear, but they are not conscious of it. Kids, they hear more. If you pay attention, all of the kids, the children, they have spiritual contacts.
A lot of them. And the fathers, they censored. The parents, they normally censored these
Richard: kids.
Cesar: Saying, oh, these don't exist. This doesn't exist. No, no, they really hear, they see, as I
Richard: did. And even if we're not hearing the voices, the inspirations we often feel, if they're not linked to goodness, truth, and beauty, those inspirations are being stimulated by these other forces.
The good ones are being stimulated by God, because that's our nature, so that's constantly the energy we're receiving to be good. But if we have a desire not to do it, every kid knows this, You know, this kid has a sense of the pleasure we get from not doing what we're supposed to do. This is like a, this is like a, and this could be a spiritual influence in our lives.
Is that, is that
Cesar: true? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We are surrounded by spirits, spiritual beings, surrounded by them.
Richard: So consciousness of this is very, very important. And let's not wait until that moment when we die, when we have sort of total consciousness of what we did and didn't do, what we should have done and didn't do, what we should have done and what we shouldn't have done.
Let's not wait. Let's try and have that experience now of doing the best we can now. That means the humility to see our mistakes, doesn't it, in Dr. Keppe's language?
Cesar: Exactly, Richard. Humility to see our mistakes because this seems to be the most difficult thing for us is to be humble in this sense. We suffer from the same pathology of Lucifer because Lucifer decayed from heaven according to the holy scriptures because of suburb, superb.
So
Richard: yeah it was soberba in Portuguese but how do you call it? Yeah we don't
Cesar: really have the translation, is literally haughtiness but a pride, haughtiness, a type of arrogance, superior type of arrogance. Yeah he didn't want to serve and Christ when he came to earth he served. Yeah and Lucifer didn't want to serve. Yeah
Richard: he said let the great, Jesus said let the greatest among you be the biggest servants and this is exactly what our powerful don't want to do.
Yeah
Cesar: this is what happens in our political
Richard: systems.
The people, they are elected to be served, not to serve the people. So what kind of democracy are we living? Corruption all over. See the United States now, the corruption in the government.
Cesar: Everybody involved with the Wall Street corruption. You know? And fumes and more fumes are being made exposing these corruptions and these people are still there.
And here in Brazil it's the same. Same thing. Same thing, and all over the world.
Richard: Thanks, Cesar. Listening to our show, reading our literature, brings with it enormous consciousness and knowledge of psychosociopathology. And this can bring the sense of tranquility that comes from knowing, or more agitation if we reject what we know. One thing for sure, what is available in Keppe Science is essential knowledge for we in the 21st century who wish to bring real change.
Check out our resources at healing through consciousness.com and spread the word, let people know about our program. Thinking with Somebody Else's Head is a production of the International Society of Analytical Trilogy in São Paulo Brazil. I'm Richard Lloyd Jones, talk to you next time.
